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Author Topic: left libertarians / libertarian socialists?  (Read 4806 times)

tyler111

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left libertarians / libertarian socialists?
« on: April 11, 2016, 11:24:47 am »

Any left libertarians / libertarian socialists here? I like the idea of the FSP, but I absolutely disagree with free-market, dog-eat-dog capitalism.  I'm not looking for a political argument, you won't change my mind and I won't change yours.  Just wondering if there are like-minded people who are participating or if FSP even welcomes left libertarians.  Thoughts?
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elkingrey

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Re: left libertarians / libertarian socialists?
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2016, 10:33:11 pm »

You might check out Portland, Oregon. The FSP is almost entirely made up of hard core capitalists and free-market anarchists.

Best of luck to you!

JLTW

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Re: left libertarians / libertarian socialists?
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2016, 09:53:38 pm »

Go to porcfest. I've discovered different beliefs and titles that I never heard outside of the FSP, and I've only been interacting online for the last few years. With how powerful the communities are out there, it might just be the best human rights & autonomy environment in the world. Porcfest is already the largest anarchist festival in the world.

I don't really care about the labels or language that much because politics has destroyed it so much it's a useless tool. A dulled knife so to speak. I can see a lot of diversity in ideas and preferences among NH-FSP communities that is fundamental to its nature. Outliers and rebels uniting, really. I've met many people that at this point give no fucks about the language and are tired of debating. And I know that I would get along with you. I've done many an anarchist, peaceful and successful collaboration with the biggest bullshitter statists, who in their actions are totally anarchist- because they don't practice what they preach, and that actually works for the betterment of all of us.

You'll never know unless you try it. Post some of your goals for the community & self here, see if some others have similar interests. One of my longterm future curiosities involves building an earthship off-grid community, to function so completely outside of government. You can call that socialistic? Because it's community-oriented? Even if I wouldn't say so. Just don't draw hard lines, there's nuance in human interaction.
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techwulf

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Re: left libertarians / libertarian socialists?
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2016, 10:31:41 pm »

It seems this group may have attracted a couple of left libertarians.  ;)
« Last Edit: May 21, 2016, 10:37:24 pm by techwulf »
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KDus

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Re: left libertarians / libertarian socialists?
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2016, 10:09:39 pm »

We must operate with different definitions of the word libertarian, and socialist. They can't exist together. Period.
The FSP is working toward extremely limited government. Socialists work toward government control of virtually everything.
If you mean socially liberal, then the Pacific North West is a good place to be.
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Kamekazi Seagull

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Re: left libertarians / libertarian socialists?
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2016, 10:07:11 am »

We must operate with different definitions of the word libertarian, and socialist. They can't exist together. Period.
The FSP is working toward extremely limited government. Socialists work toward government control of virtually everything.
If you mean socially liberal, then the Pacific North West is a good place to be.

+1
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trevorparscal

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left libertarians / libertarian socialists?
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2016, 10:52:41 am »

I found some information in Wikipedia about libertarian socialism, and it seemed to come down to voluntary association (the libertarian part, thus no state control) without property rights (anti-capitalism, thus socialism). I'm sure this is imprecise, but if it's generally accurate it would explain why many in this group might be unfamiliar or disbelieving in libertarian socialism - we believe in property rights.

In fact, in the final words of the FSP statement of intent, it includes defense of property rights as part of the maximal role of government.

- Trevor
« Last Edit: July 07, 2016, 10:46:28 pm by trevorparscal »
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TheMopPetal2

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Re: left libertarians / libertarian socialists?
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2016, 07:01:28 pm »

I would say to go back to the original FSP statement of intent which says that if you believe that the maximum role of government should be to preserve life, liberty, and property then you'd be welcome in the shire for the FSP. Once you have decided on that, start talking to people online who live in the shire as part of the free state project and decide for yourself if you can stand the ideas we talk about. ultimately, you're obviously free to move to the shire and live the kind of lifestyle you see best for yourself and I can guarantee that as long as your actions are not initiating force or coercion or fraud against another, you will be able to find supporters no matter your ideology.
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Danarchist

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Re: left libertarians / libertarian socialists?
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2018, 11:55:42 pm »

If you're talking about voluntarily sharing, I imagine you'd do fine. If stealing is your Plan B if the sharing doesn't work, you will be ideologically at odds with FSP.
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elkinjohn

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TJames

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Re: left libertarians / libertarian socialists?
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2019, 06:17:25 pm »

Hi there. If you read my older post you will see I was an anarcho-capitalist, but after seeing Cantwell easily hack our network I've had a falling away. I've looked into anarcho-communism (libertarian-socialism) and I like what I see. Here are people who actually understand that it is important to help LGBT, undocumented immigrants, people of color, and anyone else who is poor or disadvantaged! I find that many of the Free Staters practice some anarcho-communism without even realizing it.
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JasonPSorens

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Re: left libertarians / libertarian socialists?
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2019, 07:43:55 am »

Hi there. If you read my older post you will see I was an anarcho-capitalist, but after seeing Cantwell easily hack our network I've had a falling away. I've looked into anarcho-communism (libertarian-socialism) and I like what I see. Here are people who actually understand that it is important to help LGBT, undocumented immigrants, people of color, and anyone else who is poor or disadvantaged! I find that many of the Free Staters practice some anarcho-communism without even realizing it.

Hm, a lot of us were never fans of Cantwell, and the FSP expelled him for advocating aggression long before he became a Nazi. That said, I wouldn't call myself an anarcho-capitalist either - I'm more of a minarchist.
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"Educate your children, educate yourselves, in the love for the freedom of others, for only in this way will your own freedom not be a gratuitous gift from fate. You will be aware of its worth and will have the courage to defend it." --Joaquim Nabuco (1883), Abolitionism

TJames

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Re: left libertarians / libertarian socialists?
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2019, 04:35:36 pm »

Hi there. If you read my older post you will see I was an anarcho-capitalist, but after seeing Cantwell easily hack our network I've had a falling away. I've looked into anarcho-communism (libertarian-socialism) and I like what I see. Here are people who actually understand that it is important to help LGBT, undocumented immigrants, people of color, and anyone else who is poor or disadvantaged! I find that many of the Free Staters practice some anarcho-communism without even realizing it.

Hm, a lot of us were never fans of Cantwell, and the FSP expelled him for advocating aggression long before he became a Nazi. That said, I wouldn't call myself an anarcho-capitalist either - I'm more of a minarchist.

True, it is worth mentioning that the FSP rejected overt racist. Shortly after I had some epiphanies about racism seeing it in many of my right-wing libertarian friends when they talk about Obama or Kaepernick. Almost all of my libertarian friends on Facebook got on board with Trump, talked over Black people and women, and shared Breitbart articles. I sensed that systemically right wing ideology may be unable to protect itself from fascism. But I am still following members of the FSP who have rejected Trump, and I remember left libertarians and PorcFest. I remember reading that when you founded the FSP it was a big tent, and it still is. With a little study of history I recently learned that the terms communism, libertarianism, and anarchism all originated in the socialist movement.

So where are the left libertarians? What towns do they work in most?
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JasonPSorens

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Re: left libertarians / libertarian socialists?
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2019, 05:37:26 pm »

A few of the libertarians I know became Trumpist, and a small share of those went full alt-right, which is regrettable. And then I know several, especially in academia, who have swung left as a reaction to Trump. But most of the NH Free Staters I know have stayed "true north," which is heartening.

I'm not sure there are any geographic concentrations of left-libertarians in New Hampshire. They tend to congregate at the Alt-Expo events at PorcFest and Liberty Forum, though there's also a smaller, more moderate leftish wing of "neoliberals" associated with the Democratic Party, Niskanen Center, and so on. All of the ones I know in that faction are in the Nashua to Manchester corridor.
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"Educate your children, educate yourselves, in the love for the freedom of others, for only in this way will your own freedom not be a gratuitous gift from fate. You will be aware of its worth and will have the courage to defend it." --Joaquim Nabuco (1883), Abolitionism

Russell Kanning

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Re: left libertarians / libertarian socialists?
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2019, 07:05:18 pm »

Is it impossible that you might change your mind .... or that you could change mine?
I used to be pro-war and pro-government. I have seen many people in this movement change their minds over time.
Some libertarians have called me communist. So maybe you will have to dig deeper, as others have said, to find co-laborers.
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"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude
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