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Author Topic: I want NH! But convince me I'm right  (Read 5250 times)

Ambitious Ant

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Re: I want NH! But convince me I'm right
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2015, 10:29:48 pm »

Which is something I agree with 100%, and was concerned when that liberal (likely a troll/baiter) asked about joining. They even said outright "obviously I disagree with you on some things", meaning they aren't as liberty-minded as the folks of this forum/movement. That alone should've answered their question about New Hampshire/the FSP being a good fit for them.
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d.j.smith

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Re: I want NH! But convince me I'm right
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2015, 10:45:44 pm »

Aftershock, you touch on a lot of points that I could speak to. Let me start with what I think is the most obvious and pertinent one: if you look at the way anything that comes officially from the FSP is worded, you'll notice they're very careful not to endorse/espouse any particular ideology, be it liberalism or libertarianism. For example, instead of "libertarian", they use the phrase "liberty-minded people." I think the FSP has done a good job of remaining neutral in all the ways that it should. The only thing a FSP particpant needs to have in common with other participants is his belief in the necessity of limited government, and no advocacy for violence or hate.

I think your worries may be exaggerated due to the intense frustration you feel living in the "Empire State". You need to be rid of it so badly that you know what disappointement could do to you. Not having moved just yet, I can't speak from my own experience, but I can tell you that I haven't yet heard any negative feedback from those who have moved. That, in itself, is impressive, and says a lot about how well the FSP is working for its members.

Definitely do some digging in the forum. :)
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"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."

bigqueue

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Re: I want NH! But convince me I'm right
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2015, 07:19:37 am »

Firat, let me explain my "preaching to the converted" statement. (the other version of the saying)

That I mean there is that being that your post/question is posted in the FreeState forum, I would not expect anyone trying to convince you to not make the move. I would say that if you recieved any real negative feedback, it might be an argument on one position or another....and then I would hope it would only be in an attempt to push you further up or down the scale of opinion....but I could be wrong at that.

As for the rolling the sleeves up comment...I simply mean that when we all move here, we have to get involved at whatever levels we want to make the place our own. I think NH has a great sense of liberty at the core...and the people who have been here a long time really do believe in the state motto "Live Free Or Die"....and yes, I will agree with you that I think the state has slipped a bit toward the messiness of Massachusetts.....mostly at the southern border where people from Massachusetts have moved in to....and I can atest to this personally because I was one of those Massachusetts people ...... I moved from Massachusetts to NH in 1987 and lived there until 2010....I saw the Mass people coming up demanding trash pick-up, more government services, etc.... I lived in Litchfield and I was not happy with the ever rising taxes, and I worked with 8 others to re-start our Taxpayers Association, where we would go to town meetings and make arguments to the body about issues...and we would sway the vote and beat back the tentcles of government.

Then about 6 of us decided to run for office in order to affect the process earlier on so that those proposals would only come to the people at the meeting after they had been thought through more......and so I ran for and worked on the Budget Committee for about 3 terms, after which I moved on and ran as a Trustee of the Library.

Anyways...you don't have to take that route.....you can get involved supporting candidates, you can write letters to the editor....no matter what you do, I urge you to attend and speak up at the town meetings. Heck, you don't have to do anything around government, but I urge you to do SOMETHING to foster the education of the mases to the essence and value of freedom and liberty. None of us will become world known and have history books talking about us or quoting us.....but this isn't how freedom is kept and spread anyways. Our job is to at least "talk it up" / "walk the talk" with the people around us...that we interract with. If they do the same (because we urge them), then you can see how the ideals of liberty and freedom can spread like wildfire in a grassy field.

I hope that rant explains more than confuses...... :-)

-Quentin


Thanks again for the replies. I'm a little confused about the preaching to the choir comment. Care to explain a little?

I understand that the FSP is a libertarian movement which is why I was so drawn to it and pledged.

My point is that it is easy to draw people in that love certain aspects of freedom, and pick and chose not only what they think is right, but what they think is right for you.

Like said earlier, for me, there is a huge difference between what I agree with as being good/bad/effective etc, and what is right, free and constitutional.

I believe it's better for health that we no longer have smoking allowed in bars or restaurants, but I believe it should be the private owners choice to determine if his or her bar allows smoking and let capitalism and free markets decide the outcome.
I think In Nyc, a place ridden with gangster thugs, that stop and frisk does work to make the streets safer , without a doubt. But just cause it works, doesn't mean it's ok to trample on people rights, therefore I believe stop and frisk is wrong.
Liberals seem to focus only on the positive results without regard for what rights its trampling on.
Once we set a precedent that a law can be enacted for our own good and safety, well, that is a terrifying slope as the limits are endless.

So I hope that liberals realize they have to swallow the whole thing. A liberal coming to NH for solely their rights and objectives would be as silly as me going to some red Bible Belt super Christian state just for the 2nd rights. Sure I'll get my gun rights, but I might get the hardcore Christian thing too.

I digress, but I'm just hoping that as libertarians, we are on the same page that limited government and freedom to be free of each other are our number one objective. I hope we all agree that we should be tolerant of each other's beliefs and values, but not be expected to agree with them.
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Ambitious Ant

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Re: I want NH! But convince me I'm right
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2015, 09:29:16 am »

The above post is why I signed the letter of intent, and am moving next week. Everything about it.
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elkingrey

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Re: I want NH! But convince me I'm right
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2015, 12:52:13 pm »

I really can't say it enough, Northern New Hampshire is really underrated. Most free staters go south because that's where the people and the jobs are. But the good life is up north, if you can swing it. Good luck!

paperboy

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Re: I want NH! But convince me I'm right
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2015, 02:49:11 pm »



Hey Aftershock...

My loving bride is from Lon Guilen. She loves it up here.

You don't need to be in NH for freedom. You need to be in NH for survival.

When the dirty bomb eventually goes off in Manhattan, Long Island will get all the fallout. You think winter is bad up here... Nuclear Winter will be worse.

Get out now. =o)



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Aftershock00

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Re: I want NH! But convince me I'm right
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2015, 09:13:27 pm »

Hey all, thank you for all your honest straightforward opinions.

Hey qbcrusher, where are you living now? I have to say I am for the de criminalization of all drugs. I haven't partaken in all, but have dabbled in a select couple of them for past ten years, and by relative means, I have done so responsibly along with my girl and friends. It is scary to think how a run in with the police could singlehandedly destroy my future, one I have worked very hard to build. I also think prostitution should be legalized as well. However I do believe sex trafficking should be severely punished.

As far a going north, I would, but I still need some form of economy. My Achilles heel is that although I love the outdoors and the concept of being off the grid, I do enjoy my big boy toys which is where the materialistic side has me caught. I'm not materialistic as far as impressing other people, but I appreciate a quality gun (sig sauer), a quality dirt bike, snowmobile, skis, snowboard, chainsaw, snowblower, truck, muscle car, etc etc. As I'm sure many of you know, racing sports and shooting sports aren't cheap. So there lies the dilemma with going too far north.

I have to live somewhere with an hour or so commute to civilization where there's large department stores, etc.

Either way, I look forward to meeting you guys next porcfest and having some beers over political discussion. I love a good debate and I'm always interested in new perspectives.
When it comes to finding a county or town, where do I begin looking? I want at least five acres of land and I don't wanna be surrounded by liberals, lol.
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Aftershock00

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Re: I want NH! But convince me I'm right
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2015, 09:25:52 pm »

Oh and I agree with the whole dirty bomb thing, when the SHTF, the tri state area is not where I wanna be.

To bigquue,
I totally understand what you're saying about being active in local government .  I am the type of person that fights for what I want. I don't always get it but at least I can say I tried. When they closed down the drag strip, I wrote a letter to the county executive and attended all the rally's to rebuild a new one. That was when I was only 18. In the end, we lost but at least I put skin in the game and tried. I absolutely hate hearing people bitch about one thing or another, especially in regard to a local issue, and when I ask them, what have you done to fight it/stop it/make it happen/reduce it//improve it, etc, they all just look at me with that dumb confused helpless stare as if to say...."what?...I was supposed to put effort into this?!?"
Long Island is full of complainers. Full of talk. I'm a man of action. If I don't like something in my life, I put in an honest effort to actively change it. If I don't like how I look, I go to the gym, if I don't like my job, I learn a new skill and interview for other jobs. I don't waste my time on Facebook looking at pictures of other people who post pictures so they can get satisfaction out of other people's admiration.
I can't wait to leave this place, five years is too long lol
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JasonPSorens

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Re: I want NH! But convince me I'm right
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2015, 09:58:54 pm »

On looking for a town, check this out: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3904587/nhtowns15.xls
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"Educate your children, educate yourselves, in the love for the freedom of others, for only in this way will your own freedom not be a gratuitous gift from fate. You will be aware of its worth and will have the courage to defend it." --Joaquim Nabuco (1883), Abolitionism

bigqueue

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Re: I want NH! But convince me I'm right
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2016, 11:25:45 pm »

Your message initially looked to me to be one that was almost trying to convince someone of the benefits or values of joining the FSP.....my comment was just that this is clearly going to be the place where there would be MANY very like minded people. I'm not sure what alarmed you about my post.....I wasn't judging or commenting negatively.

Will the FSP be everything you expect it to.....time will tell for all of us, but I suppose that is mostly a matter of our own expectations. My opinion is that it is indeed a project....one that pushes forward an idea, in a sort of continual improvement manner.....every year creating an environment with more and more freedom, liberty and personal responsibility.

I think the people here in this forum are the converted.....now we need to spread the ideals to the rest of the population.

-Quentin


Thanks again for the replies. I'm a little confused about the preaching to the choir comment. Care to explain a little?

I understand that the FSP is a libertarian movement which is why I was so drawn to it and pledged.

My point is that it is easy to draw people in that love certain aspects of freedom, and pick and chose not only what they think is right, but what they think is right for you.

Like said earlier, for me, there is a huge difference between what I agree with as being good/bad/effective etc, and what is right, free and constitutional.

I believe it's better for health that we no longer have smoking allowed in bars or restaurants, but I believe it should be the private owners choice to determine if his or her bar allows smoking and let capitalism and free markets decide the outcome.
I think In Nyc, a place ridden with gangster thugs, that stop and frisk does work to make the streets safer , without a doubt. But just cause it works, doesn't mean it's ok to trample on people rights, therefore I believe stop and frisk is wrong.
Liberals seem to focus only on the positive results without regard for what rights its trampling on.
Once we set a precedent that a law can be enacted for our own good and safety, well, that is a terrifying slope as the limits are endless.

So I hope that liberals realize they have to swallow the whole thing. A liberal coming to NH for solely their rights and objectives would be as silly as me going to some red Bible Belt super Christian state just for the 2nd rights. Sure I'll get my gun rights, but I might get the hardcore Christian thing too.

I digress, but I'm just hoping that as libertarians, we are on the same page that limited government and freedom to be free of each other are our number one objective. I hope we all agree that we should be tolerant of each other's beliefs and values, but not be expected to agree with them.
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