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Author Topic: Tax revenue?  (Read 4276 times)

Evan W

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Tax revenue?
« on: January 13, 2015, 10:52:16 pm »

Where does the state get revenue since it doesn't have sales tax and income tax? I have heard vehicle registration is a bit more than other states.
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anon37268573

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Re: Tax revenue?
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2015, 05:15:53 pm »

Where does the state get revenue since it doesn't have sales tax and income tax? I have heard vehicle registration is a bit more than other states.

You have to take what the State of NH, the press in NH, and the FSP says about taxes with a grain of salt. Most of it isn't true... it isn't untrue either... it's just "finessed"
aka "Truthyness".

There actually is a sales tax... on prepared meals - 9%. It also applies to car rentals and various other things. The NH gov't also gives itself a monopoloy on hard
liquor sales. So, while there's not a "sales tax" on liquor, you can only buy it from the state at the price the state sets and all the revenue from that goes to the state.

NH also has an income tax. It's called the "Interest and Dividend Tax". The state charges a 5% fee on all interest and dividends earned by people living in the state.

It is true that there are multiple high taxes on vehicles as well. When you register your vehicle in NH, you have to pay a "use" tax based on the value of the vehicle. For
an old 15 y/o clunker, like mine, the tax is usually around $80-$100/year or so. If you have a brand new sports car/electric, you can expect to pay much much more... perhaps
hundreds or even over a thousand.  In addition to the use tax, there are also mandatory annual inspections that you have to pay for. These usually run between $30-$40
and involve emissions and a mechanic checking your car for problems (and having to take a day off work to get the testing done).

In addition to that, property taxes in NH are super high. On my house, which is around $150K in value, I have to pay about $5K a year in property taxes which is split up
between the state government and the local government.

Finally, NH has some of the worst corporate taxes in the nation. They are I think in 47th place in terms of how bad they stick it to you if you're an entrepreneur or self
employed. In NH, you have to pay a tax on the value of your company and all it's assets and an additional tax on corporate income that is up near 10%. So, if you have
a business, you will have to pay around 10% on the money before you even get it, an additional tax on equipment/money in the bank/company value, and then when
you go to take money out of the business beyond a salary for yourself you will get hit with NH's 5% "interest and dividends tax" on what you pay to yourself as dividends.

Because the horrendous taxes have put NH's economy in such horrible shape, many people have to work outside of the state since companies try and avoid locating in
NH. I personally work in Massachusetts. Working out of state generally means around a 5% income tax paid to the state you work in. NH does not allow you to deduct the
income tax you pay in another state against the local state taxes that NH charges you.

Overall, NH is probably around 35th-37th place when it comes to total taxes that the state government takes from you. It's kind of hard to say, because in NH most of it
is hidden fees and non-broad based taxes. And, obviously, some people, like entrepreneurs have it worse than say stay at home welfare queens on disability or fast
food workers.

If you're looking for low taxes, NH is definitely not the place to come to.  And, I don't expect that to change. Taxes aren't even on the radar of 99% of Free Staters. The
Free State Project early movers are laser focused on stuff like legalizing drugs, open carry, public drinking, parking meters, and bestiality. Most of them don't even
realize how bad the NH tax situation is.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2015, 05:20:56 pm by anon37268573 »
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JasonPSorens

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Re: Tax revenue?
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2015, 08:35:49 pm »

There you go again, misrepresenting the tax burden in NH. All objective sources put NH's tax burden in the bottom 10. The most complete survey comes from the Tax Foundation: http://taxfoundation.org/article/annual-state-local-tax-burden-ranking-fy-2011

It's also absurd to describe NH's economy as "horrendous," though growth in the whole New England region has been below-average over the last 5 years or so. Personal income per capita, adjusted for cost of living, is above the national average in NH, and the unemployment rate is well below average. Clearly, there are lots of areas where NH could do better, but it does no one any good to distort the true picture.
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"Educate your children, educate yourselves, in the love for the freedom of others, for only in this way will your own freedom not be a gratuitous gift from fate. You will be aware of its worth and will have the courage to defend it." --Joaquim Nabuco (1883), Abolitionism

Evan W

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Re: Tax revenue?
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2015, 10:26:37 pm »

In his face, Jason!!!! You have the most credibility on here when it comes to the REAL numbers and statistics and not just because you are a co-founder of the FSP.
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freedomroad

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Re: Tax revenue?
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2015, 04:20:58 pm »

Where does the state get revenue since it doesn't have sales tax and income tax? I have heard vehicle registration is a bit more than other states.

You can find it on the state website. Local revenue is almost all from property taxes with state and federal assistance also being important. Auto registration and other things help.

State revenue comes from the federal government, business taxes, property transfer tax, excise taxes and fees (gas, liquor, beer, wine, cigarettes), fines, fees, auto registration, the meals, rooms and rental tax, interest and dividend tax and so on.

The prepared meals tax only applies to some prepared food. For example, there are cafeterias that don't charge it. Even some chains don't charge it on certain ideas. It isn't required on underground sales. Nor is it collected at events like PorcFest, yard sales, church sales, school sales and so on. The rooms tax doesn't apply to camping and some bed and breakfasts don't charge it.

While NH has taxes like you would expect in every state, there is a strong anti-tax mentality here. Loopholes are everywhere once you get to understand the culture. There are even communities that don't have property taxes. Plus, there are a lot of ways to reduce your property tax liability. It depends on how you want to live, but if you are against taxes for principled reasons, it is certainly easier to avoid them in NH than in other states
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anon37268573

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Re: Tax revenue?
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2015, 05:53:29 pm »

There you go again, misrepresenting the tax burden in NH. All objective sources put NH's tax burden in the bottom 10. The most complete survey comes from the Tax Foundation: http://taxfoundation.org/article/annual-state-local-tax-burden-ranking-fy-2011

It's also absurd to describe NH's economy as "horrendous," though growth in the whole New England region has been below-average over the last 5 years or so. Personal income per capita, adjusted for cost of living, is above the national average in NH, and the unemployment rate is well below average. Clearly, there are lots of areas where NH could do better, but it does no one any good to distort the true picture.

Then why do you distort it?

The Tax Foundation has zero credibility and blatantly manipulates their numbers, studies, and publications, to try and make Red States look better than they are while trying to make Blue States look worse than they actually are.

The fact that you bring up unemployment just shows how disinterested you are in actual quantitative values that reflect the realities of New Hampshire. It is a well known fact that, just as NH has high beer sales per capita due to higher taxes applicable to beer in surrounding states, New Hampshire has artificially low unemployment numbers due to the need for New Hampshire citizens to work out of state due to horrendous NH economy (and subsequently claim unemployment benefits from those surrounding states therefor finding themselves counted in the surrounding states unemployment rates). Likewise, high personal income per capita adjusted for cost of living doesn't say much when most of it goes to taxes and government fees rather than personal spending or savings.
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JasonPSorens

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Re: Tax revenue?
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2015, 07:49:03 pm »

Whatever.
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"Educate your children, educate yourselves, in the love for the freedom of others, for only in this way will your own freedom not be a gratuitous gift from fate. You will be aware of its worth and will have the courage to defend it." --Joaquim Nabuco (1883), Abolitionism

Evan W

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Re: Tax revenue?
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2015, 10:34:23 pm »

Thank you, 1DayAtATime. That answers the question quite well.
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freedomroad

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Re: Tax revenue?
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2015, 12:32:02 pm »

Whatever.

Great response.

NH and the border state of VT not only have the lowest unemployment rates East of the MS River, they also have the highest percentage of the population in the workforce in the East.

The part of NH with the strongest economy is the Lebanon/Hanover area. It is hours away from the Boston job market. It borders VT. The economy is good on both sides of the NH/VT border. However, something like greater than 75% of the the population in the greater Lebanon area live on the NH side of the border so that side is clearly dominant, economically.
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TJames

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Re: Tax revenue?
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2015, 02:22:15 am »

Are there loopholes for the Interest and Dividend Tax?
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IamMan

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Re: Tax revenue?
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2015, 05:59:20 pm »

Are there loopholes for the Interest and Dividend Tax?
I believe trusts may be exempt.
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freedomroad

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Re: Tax revenue?
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2015, 06:16:55 pm »

Are there loopholes for the Interest and Dividend Tax?

Sure. First, you have to reach the threshold before you even have to start paying. If you are married, the threshold is doubled. Look into trusts. It has been said over and over again that NH has some of the best trust laws in the country. Also keep in mind that several states don't tax interest and dividends. Your lawyer should be able to help you.
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TJames

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Re: Tax revenue?
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2015, 01:08:01 pm »

When I get to NH who can teach me?
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