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Author Topic: NH is a bit different  (Read 6459 times)

JasonPSorens

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NH is a bit different
« on: July 28, 2014, 12:24:55 pm »

NH is a bit different.

The other day, I met a guy in my apartment complex's elevator who was open carrying. Friendly guy, but didn't recognize him as a Free Stater or libertarian activist.

At our new rental house, we have a neighbor with a "Free Snowden" sign out front. Again, not Free Staters or Pre-Staters so far as I know.

Two days ago, I was driving behind a car with a bumper sticker that said, "Every Tax and Regulation Takes Away Someone's Freedom."

And this is all in the "leftist" Upper Valley.
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"Educate your children, educate yourselves, in the love for the freedom of others, for only in this way will your own freedom not be a gratuitous gift from fate. You will be aware of its worth and will have the courage to defend it." --Joaquim Nabuco (1883), Abolitionism

John Edward Mercier

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Re: NH is a bit different
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2014, 06:14:08 pm »

Because every tax and regulation does take away someone's freedom.
But the reality of their demise is something that most don't want to deal with.
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JasonPSorens

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Re: NH is a bit different
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2014, 07:56:42 pm »

Yes - it's not the same as saying that no regulation is justified. But taking away people's freedom is a real cost.
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"Educate your children, educate yourselves, in the love for the freedom of others, for only in this way will your own freedom not be a gratuitous gift from fate. You will be aware of its worth and will have the courage to defend it." --Joaquim Nabuco (1883), Abolitionism

lildog

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Re: NH is a bit different
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2014, 01:38:14 pm »

And this is all in the "leftist" Upper Valley.

An area can be 90% pro freedom but if only the 10% show up to vote on election day, they end up determining who rules.
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TJames

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Re: NH is a bit different
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2014, 03:10:48 pm »

And this is all in the "leftist" Upper Valley.

An area can be 90% pro freedom but if only the 10% show up to vote on election day, they end up determining who rules.

Only if the 90% believe in the same religion of government.
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John Edward Mercier

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Re: NH is a bit different
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2014, 06:14:28 pm »

Yes - it's not the same as saying that no regulation is justified. But taking away people's freedom is a real cost.
It is all justified. People can justify anything.
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John Edward Mercier

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Re: NH is a bit different
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2014, 06:15:58 pm »

And this is all in the "leftist" Upper Valley.

An area can be 90% pro freedom but if only the 10% show up to vote on election day, they end up determining who rules.

Only if the 90% believe in the same religion of government.
lildog was explaining that voters determine the rules. So it the pro-freedom group is a super-majority but never votes - it is ruled by the minority.
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MaineShark

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Re: NH is a bit different
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2014, 06:27:33 pm »

lildog was explaining that voters determine the rules. So it the pro-freedom group is a super-majority but never votes - it is ruled by the minority.

TJames pointed out that as false, unless the 90% believe in the religion of Statism.  Without that mystique to back them up, the 10% can't rule anything, because the 90% would just say, "screw you, we ain't doing what you say, and you can't make us because we outnumber you nine to one."
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JasonPSorens

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Re: NH is a bit different
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2014, 06:49:53 pm »

Yes - it's not the same as saying that no regulation is justified. But taking away people's freedom is a real cost.
It is all justified. People can justify anything.

Justification isn't the same as rationalization.
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"Educate your children, educate yourselves, in the love for the freedom of others, for only in this way will your own freedom not be a gratuitous gift from fate. You will be aware of its worth and will have the courage to defend it." --Joaquim Nabuco (1883), Abolitionism

lildog

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Re: NH is a bit different
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2014, 08:30:49 am »

lildog was explaining that voters determine the rules. So it the pro-freedom group is a super-majority but never votes - it is ruled by the minority.

TJames pointed out that as false, unless the 90% believe in the religion of Statism.  Without that mystique to back them up, the 10% can't rule anything, because the 90% would just say, "screw you, we ain't doing what you say, and you can't make us because we outnumber you nine to one."

It doesn't matter if the majority believe in it or not, if the 10% control the power (military and police) they can enforce their rules regardless of whether the majority support them or not.

We see it today, how many times do people look at what's going on in this country and say "that's stupid" or "I can't believe they get away with that" but people are too scared to do anything about it.  People fear, they fear losing their homes and their comforts around them so they wont take any risks against things they disagree with.  And when you ramp it up with military and police people become even more fearful of total loss of freedom or worse, death.

This allows the minority who show up and vote to enforce their will on everyone else.
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Sam Adams

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Re: NH is a bit different
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2014, 09:09:55 am »

             If people are worried about losing their houses, that was the plan.[ who really owns them], Its called the debt trap, Easy money vs saving your hard earned money and owning everything out-right. This has been the game of ownership of people before the last 2015 years. The bankers and Insurance co,s tell you the rules along with regulations and u better Jump or you will be in the streets. 1774 everyone owned everything outright and they had spit and vinegar, don,t lean to heavy on those Americans. Now we have Debt citizens.
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MaineShark

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Re: NH is a bit different
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2014, 02:48:02 pm »

It doesn't matter if the majority believe in it or not, if the 10% control the power (military and police) they can enforce their rules regardless of whether the majority support them or not.

No, even if that 10% included all of the military and police, they could not possibly enforce their will upon the other 90%.  It might be a bloody conflict, but they'd lose.

Only if they can convince most of that 90% to comply without overt use of force, is it even vaguely possible to maintain control.  If not, they'd be overwhelmed and destroyed in short order.

The only reason it works, is because the overwhelming majority of the population worship the State as a god, and will not deny its power, because that's blasphemous.  If they actually looked, they'd see that "the State" is just a bunch of humans in silly costumes, and they'd realize that they are more powerful and don't have to comply with the edicts of those costumed fools.
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"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.

We are not civilized because we are armed; we are armed because we are civilized..

John Edward Mercier

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Re: NH is a bit different
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2014, 11:43:37 am »

Yes - it's not the same as saying that no regulation is justified. But taking away people's freedom is a real cost.
It is all justified. People can justify anything.

Justification isn't the same as rationalization.
Actually, they are pretty close. It really seems to be a matter of majority.
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John Edward Mercier

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Re: NH is a bit different
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2014, 11:44:32 am »

             If people are worried about losing their houses, that was the plan.[ who really owns them], Its called the debt trap, Easy money vs saving your hard earned money and owning everything out-right. This has been the game of ownership of people before the last 2015 years. The bankers and Insurance co,s tell you the rules along with regulations and u better Jump or you will be in the streets. 1774 everyone owned everything outright and they had spit and vinegar, don,t lean to heavy on those Americans. Now we have Debt citizens.
You don't have to contract with banks or insurance companies - you volunteer to.
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John Edward Mercier

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Re: NH is a bit different
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2014, 11:46:09 am »

It doesn't matter if the majority believe in it or not, if the 10% control the power (military and police) they can enforce their rules regardless of whether the majority support them or not.

No, even if that 10% included all of the military and police, they could not possibly enforce their will upon the other 90%.  It might be a bloody conflict, but they'd lose.

Only if they can convince most of that 90% to comply without overt use of force, is it even vaguely possible to maintain control.  If not, they'd be overwhelmed and destroyed in short order.

The only reason it works, is because the overwhelming majority of the population worship the State as a god, and will not deny its power, because that's blasphemous.  If they actually looked, they'd see that "the State" is just a bunch of humans in silly costumes, and they'd realize that they are more powerful and don't have to comply with the edicts of those costumed fools.
They are the ones that elected those costumed fools.
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