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Author Topic: How many free staters are currently in Grafton vs. how many in Keene?  (Read 7639 times)

antistate1190

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The title says it all.
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MaineShark

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Re: How many free staters are currently in Grafton vs. how many in Keene?
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2011, 10:27:40 pm »

I don't think there's a detailed census.

Nor would it be accurate, for liberty purposes: Grafton had a lot of liberty-minded folks already living here, before the FSP even started.  There's a reason why there's no zoning and such, here.

That said, they are vastly different places, in pretty much any category you choose to name.  Keene is a city.  Grafton is a small town.

Joe
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antistate1190

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Re: How many free staters are currently in Grafton vs. how many in Keene?
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2011, 02:24:09 am »

I don't think there's a detailed census.

Nor would it be accurate, for liberty purposes: Grafton had a lot of liberty-minded folks already living here, before the FSP even started.  There's a reason why there's no zoning and such, here.

That said, they are vastly different places, in pretty much any category you choose to name.  Keene is a city.  Grafton is a small town.

Joe

I was asking which town had the larger number of liberty activists.
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Dreepa

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Re: How many free staters are currently in Grafton vs. how many in Keene?
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2011, 05:40:40 am »

I don't think there's a detailed census.

Nor would it be accurate, for liberty purposes: Grafton had a lot of liberty-minded folks already living here, before the FSP even started.  There's a reason why there's no zoning and such, here.

That said, they are vastly different places, in pretty much any category you choose to name.  Keene is a city.  Grafton is a small town.

Joe

I was asking which town had the larger number of liberty activists.

and looks like he answered it.


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MaineShark

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Re: How many free staters are currently in Grafton vs. how many in Keene?
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2011, 08:40:10 am »

I don't think there's a detailed census.

Nor would it be accurate, for liberty purposes: Grafton had a lot of liberty-minded folks already living here, before the FSP even started.  There's a reason why there's no zoning and such, here.

That said, they are vastly different places, in pretty much any category you choose to name.  Keene is a city.  Grafton is a small town.
I was asking which town had the larger number of liberty activists.

There's no specific answer.

A) You can't herd cats, so asking everyone to show up and be counted ain't going to happen.  We can make guesses and estimates, but that's all.

B) It would depend upon what you define as an "activist."  Voters only?  Folks who will hold signs, but not vote?  Those in the pro-liberty media?  Agorists?  Et cetera...

C) It would depend upon what you consider sufficient to be considered "pro-liberty."  For example, I don't think they'd get much attendance at a 420 rally, here in Grafton.  There are actually a fair number of folks who are interested in such things, but they are usually unwilling to make it part of their activism.  On the other hand, when they held "meet the candidates" night, there were five candidates for police chief, and when someone asked what their feelings were on the State eliminating the concealed carry licensing requirement, all but one crazy write-in candidate said they were fully in favor.  So if gun rights are your thing, this might be a good choice, because even the cop (single - we only have one) thinks you shouldn't need a license to carry concealed.

If you can define your terms sufficiently, I'll take a stab at an estimate.

Joe
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"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.

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Jeff LaGrange

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Re: How many free staters are currently in Grafton vs. how many in Keene?
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2011, 12:15:46 pm »

I don't think there's a detailed census.

Nor would it be accurate, for liberty purposes: Grafton had a lot of liberty-minded folks already living here, before the FSP even started.  There's a reason why there's no zoning and such, here.

That said, they are vastly different places, in pretty much any category you choose to name.  Keene is a city.  Grafton is a small town.
I was asking which town had the larger number of liberty activists.

There's no specific answer.

A) You can't herd cats, so asking everyone to show up and be counted ain't going to happen.  We can make guesses and estimates, but that's all.

B) It would depend upon what you define as an "activist."  Voters only?  Folks who will hold signs, but not vote?  Those in the pro-liberty media?  Agorists?  Et cetera...

C) It would depend upon what you consider sufficient to be considered "pro-liberty."  For example, I don't think they'd get much attendance at a 420 rally, here in Grafton.  There are actually a fair number of folks who are interested in such things, but they are usually unwilling to make it part of their activism.  On the other hand, when they held "meet the candidates" night, there were five candidates for police chief, and when someone asked what their feelings were on the State eliminating the concealed carry licensing requirement, all but one crazy write-in candidate said they were fully in favor.  So if gun rights are your thing, this might be a good choice, because even the cop (single - we only have one) thinks you shouldn't need a license to carry concealed.

If you can define your terms sufficiently, I'll take a stab at an estimate.

Joe

Just throwing my 2 cents in.  I would consider the numbers of votes casted by people in Grafton in order to revoke bad laws, protect the interests of citizens and elect various board members would be a good estimate.  The only people worth counting are the ones that participate.  There is a recent post on here that someone pointed out numbers of votes cast in elections of board members and on laws in Grafton.  He pointed out that some battles were lost by only 1 vote. 
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"No nation however powerful, any more than an individual, can be unjust with impunity.  Sooner or later, public opinion, an instrument merely moral in the beginning, will find occasion physically to inflict its sentences on the unjust... The lesson is useful to the weak as well as the strong." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1804.

"It is the trade of lawyers to question everything, yield nothing, and talk by the hour." -  Thomas Jefferson

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."

Thomas Jefferson

MaineShark

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Re: How many free staters are currently in Grafton vs. how many in Keene?
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2011, 12:34:05 pm »

Just throwing my 2 cents in.  I would consider the numbers of votes casted by people in Grafton in order to revoke bad laws, protect the interests of citizens and elect various board members would be a good estimate.

It will vary depending upon the issue.  We only have like four ordinances, so there aren't many bad laws to revoke.  There are maybe three dozen individuals we can count on to vote the "hard line" liberty stance, 90-95% of the time.  If we look at the recent election, the candidates who were either pro-liberty, or the lesser of two evils, got a solid 125-150 votes, each (I'm ignoring any unopposed races, because how many votes you get if you're unopposed isn't really relevant).  How many of those were due to the candidate's positions, and how many were "I'm voting for my neighbor" is hard to tell.

In the closest race, the best and worst candidate each got 135 votes, and the moderate got 128 votes.  In accordance with the law, names were drawn from a hat to break the tie between the top two, handing it to the worst candidate.  At least we get to tell her she was pulled out of a hole, for the next three years...

The only people worth counting are the ones that participate.

There are plenty of ways to participate in the liberty movement, other than voting.  As I've mentioned elsewhere, someone who educates many others, is far more valuable to me than someone who shows up once or twice a year to vote.  The one who is educating others, but not personally voting, is having a larger impact.

There is a recent post on here that someone pointed out numbers of votes cast in elections of board members and on laws in Grafton.  He pointed out that some battles were lost by only 1 vote.

Uh, yeah, that was by me... :)

Joe
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"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.

We are not civilized because we are armed; we are armed because we are civilized..

Jeff LaGrange

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Re: How many free staters are currently in Grafton vs. how many in Keene?
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2011, 08:08:38 pm »

Essentially, we agree on everything important.  I'd be happy to be your neighbor when I move (and I vote as well as promote)  ;D
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"No nation however powerful, any more than an individual, can be unjust with impunity.  Sooner or later, public opinion, an instrument merely moral in the beginning, will find occasion physically to inflict its sentences on the unjust... The lesson is useful to the weak as well as the strong." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1804.

"It is the trade of lawyers to question everything, yield nothing, and talk by the hour." -  Thomas Jefferson

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."

Thomas Jefferson

Andvari

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Re: How many free staters are currently in Grafton vs. how many in Keene?
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2011, 09:48:19 pm »

Why doesnt the FSP put out data on who's moving where, i think that would be great. Obviously no personal info but just to give other movers a general idea of where FS'ers are zero'ing in on. For example, i  really like Portsmouth (it reminds me of a miniature version of Nyc)---but its a statist town with some of the highest taxes in NH. I wouldnt move there with a just a few free staters around---but if i knew a few hundred activists were there, i would consider it.

Any chance of this happening ?
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MaineShark

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Re: How many free staters are currently in Grafton vs. how many in Keene?
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2011, 09:56:36 pm »

Why doesnt the FSP put out data on who's moving where, i think that would be great. Obviously no personal info but just to give other movers a general idea of where FS'ers are zero'ing in on. For example, i  really like Portsmouth (it reminds me of a miniature version of Nyc)---but its a statist town with some of the highest taxes in NH. I wouldnt move there with a just a few free staters around---but if i knew a few hundred activists were there, i would consider it.

Any chance of this happening ?

Nope.  Most folks who move don't keep the FSP organization informed as to their location.  They don't even know how many have moved (the number on the site is significantly low), let alone where they have moved to.

Even those who tell the organization that they've moved, and where to, often move within NH, after arrival.  For example, someone moves into a rental in Manchester or Concord, then scopes out a place to settle and buys a house.  The popular rental areas would be over-represented in those statistics, because folks often move to a rental, first.

If you want even a hundred Freestaters in your immediate vicinity, I think Manchester is pretty much it.  Maybe Keene, but I wouldn't wager on it.

If you're looking for a large number, you'll need to hit one of the big cities.  Of course, the existing population of the city is also there, so the "density" of Freestaters is not as high as with a small town with just a handful present.  I can't imagine that any place has as high a population density of Freestaters as we do here in Grafton, just because it's such a small town.

Joe
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"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.

We are not civilized because we are armed; we are armed because we are civilized..

Andvari

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Re: How many free staters are currently in Grafton vs. how many in Keene?
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2011, 10:07:11 pm »

Indeed, it's a tough task keeping up with everybody. Maybe after someone moves there and updates their status--an optional question of where did you move could be attached. Or something like that.
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Ward Griffiths

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Re: How many free staters are currently in Grafton vs. how many in Keene?
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2011, 10:07:44 pm »

Why doesnt the FSP put out data on who's moving where, i think that would be great. Obviously no personal info but just to give other movers a general idea of where FS'ers are zero'ing in on. For example, i  really like Portsmouth (it reminds me of a miniature version of Nyc)---but its a statist town with some of the highest taxes in NH. I wouldnt move there with a just a few free staters around---but if i knew a few hundred activists were there, i would consider it.

Any chance of this happening ?

The FSP has its work cut out just getting folks to move to New Hampshire.  Seems to me a fair number of folks who have moved do plenty of promotion for their chosen towns and cities.  Not many promoting the area I hope to move to (the stretch from Laconia to Tilton), but I'm not worried about it until I can get there. Of course I'm prejudiced, I lived in Laconia as a teen (many years ago).  I'll worry about which bits of activism I need to participate in there once I'm on the ground.
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MaineShark

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Re: How many free staters are currently in Grafton vs. how many in Keene?
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2011, 10:11:06 pm »

Indeed, it's a tough task keeping up with everybody. Maybe after someone moves there and updates their status--an optional question of where did you move could be attached. Or something like that.

They can, and do, but many (most?) folks don't want to answer.  And it doesn't help with the issue of them moving again, after they get here.

Joe
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"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.

We are not civilized because we are armed; we are armed because we are civilized..

antistate1190

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Re: How many free staters are currently in Grafton vs. how many in Keene?
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2011, 02:52:14 am »

Why doesnt the FSP put out data on who's moving where, i think that would be great. Obviously no personal info but just to give other movers a general idea of where FS'ers are zero'ing in on.

Good idea.
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John Edward Mercier

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Re: How many free staters are currently in Grafton vs. how many in Keene?
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2011, 05:10:45 am »

Those movers would need to update the information.
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