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Author Topic: Once I'm in NH how can I put my life savings in gold?  (Read 16293 times)

eh?

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Re: Once I'm in NH how can I put my life savings in gold?
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2010, 06:57:39 pm »


Put another way, an ounce of gold will today buy pretty much what it always has.  The dollar will not.

Just ain't so.

'Tis too.   :P  :)

Quote
Again, the value of gold is not intrinsic. Its value fluctuates--just like the value of everything else. Prices adjust accordingly.

Actually, no, the relative value of gold, measured broadly, hasn't fluctuated all that much.  Fiats generally have been very poor and unreliable measures, especially over time, of relative value.  I doubt that, but for the unjustifiable conceit of kings and the threat of aggressive state violence, very many honest people would accept, and few but the dishonest would offer, them.
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rossby

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Re: Once I'm in NH how can I put my life savings in gold?
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2010, 07:49:03 pm »

Actually, no, the relative value of gold, measured broadly, hasn't fluctuated all that much.

... I can't believe we're even talking about this. ::)
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Denis Goddard

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Re: Once I'm in NH how can I put my life savings in gold?
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2010, 07:56:32 pm »

debatarians!

eh?

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Re: Once I'm in NH how can I put my life savings in gold?
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2010, 08:27:38 pm »

Actually, no, the relative value of gold, measured broadly, hasn't fluctuated all that much.
... I can't believe we're even talking about this. ::)

Ok.  Conversation closed.  :-X

debatarians!

 8)  :P  :)

(Nice graph, btw.)
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To advocate compulsory taxation (there is no other kind) is to advocate aggressive violence.
Rare indeed seem those who would rather the lash were banished utterly from human interaction save in defense of self and property
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John Edward Mercier

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Re: Once I'm in NH how can I put my life savings in gold?
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2010, 11:56:00 pm »


Put another way, an ounce of gold will today buy pretty much what it always has.  The dollar will not.

Just ain't so.

'Tis too.   :P  :)

Quote
Again, the value of gold is not intrinsic. Its value fluctuates--just like the value of everything else. Prices adjust accordingly.

Actually, no, the relative value of gold, measured broadly, hasn't fluctuated all that much.  Fiats generally have been very poor and unreliable measures, especially over time, of relative value.  I doubt that, but for the unjustifiable conceit of kings and the threat of aggressive state violence, very many honest people would accept, and few but the dishonest would offer, them.
Huh?
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eh?

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Re: Once I'm in NH how can I put my life savings in gold?
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2010, 06:48:26 pm »

Huh?

Quote from: crawlingroad.com

Does gold preserve purchasing power?


Let’s take for example a suit of clothes. This is the classic example of gold wealth preservation. Some historians have noted that one ounce of gold today would buy you a suit, a belt, a shirt and a pair of shoes. One ounce of gold in 1900 would do the same. One ounce of gold at the founding of the country would do the same. And some have said that going back to Roman times it would have bought the equivalent.

Obviously, the suits here are not the same so there is some price fluctuation. But I think the idea holds that one ounce of gold does preserve purchasing power. The prices for the suits and gold are from October of that year.

1900
Men’s suit, worsted, 7.00-16.00/each
One Ounce Gold: $20.67

1940
Men’s suit, tweed, 25.00/each
One Ounce Gold: $35

1970
Men’s suit, shaped double-breasted, wool, 56.95/each
One Ounce Gold: $35 * (in 1971 we broke the gold standard. This official price was too low. By 1972 the gold price shot to $65 an ounce essentially matching the prices from previous decades in terms of purchasing power.)

– Gold standard broken in 1971 – Gold allowed to float against the dollar and inflation went into the double digits.–

1980
Men’s suit, wool worsted, 425.00/each
One Ounce Gold: $661

(Note the price increase since 1971 when we abandoned the gold standard and inflation raged. )

1990
Men’s suit, Evan Picone, wool, 279.99/each (inflation finally under control)
One Ounce Gold: $380

2000
Men’s suit, 375.00-475.00/each
One Ounce Gold: $270 (who wants gold when you can own catlitter.com stock!!)

2007 (Price I paid a few months ago for some suits)
Men’s suit, $400-600
One Ounce Gold: (approx) $700

I've seen other similar compilations for other comparisons as well.  This and the other evidence that I have been able to find clearly supports my comment, somewhere above, that "Put another way, an ounce of gold will today buy pretty much what it always has.  The dollar will not."  I'm always happy to have my errors pointed out to me, tho, so the presentation of contrary fact will be, of course, verywelcome.

Although gold has an historical record of maintaining its value better than anything else, just staying even is not good enough to qualify as an investment in my opinion.  However, in terms of the only measure that counts -what it can be exchanged for - the dollar has a far poorer record, having lost somewhere around 97% of its purchasing power since 1917 or so.

So, burying gold under a rock has been likely to preserve wealth whereas keeping FRN's (or any fiat equivalent) in a sock under the mattress hasn't been likely to get the "investor" anything more than a lumpy place to sleep.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 05:33:57 pm by eh? »
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Jeff LaGrange

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Re: Once I'm in NH how can I put my life savings in gold?
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2010, 07:27:05 pm »

So, you are saying if I invest in a bunch of suits they will hold their value over the next century?  Thanks !!!    Mens Wharehouse, here I come.
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anon37268573

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Re: Once I'm in NH how can I put my life savings in gold?
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2010, 08:47:58 pm »

[
Again, the value of gold is not intrinsic. Its value fluctuates--just like the value of everything else. Prices adjust accordingly.

Actually, no, the relative value of gold, measured broadly, hasn't fluctuated all that much. 
[/quote]

Would you accept a $20 gold piece for the hand of your oldest daughter?  Because,  I need a wife and were this the 1200's...

Gold and Silver just aren't that valuable, anymore.  They lost most of their value when fiat currency was invented.
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John Edward Mercier

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Re: Once I'm in NH how can I put my life savings in gold?
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2010, 02:38:16 pm »

eh?
Your suggesting that currency be used as a store of wealth. When used 'currently' the exact value of a dollar has little meaning... its simply a measure of goods/service in labor-hours. A finite amount of currency used for wealth storage creates a dramatic decrease in economic velocity resulting in deflation and can only be maintained by a fiat means.

Also your comparison doesn't work well, in that the Gold Standard became 'dejure' in 1900.
Today an ounce of gold is $1400, but I doubt that same worsted wool suit would fetch such a price.
The market is relative in value, not fixated.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 03:10:30 pm by John Edward Mercier »
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Bazil

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Re: Once I'm in NH how can I put my life savings in gold?
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2010, 03:17:11 pm »

The problem is nothing in an economy is fixed, even how much your labor is worth.  Because the need for what each person does fluctuates over time.  Today the demand for butchers is much lower than it used to be 100 years ago.  With the time they put in not being worth as much because of automated butchering methods butchers have mostly gone out of business.  Is someone thinks a piece of green paper will get them lots of goods and everyone else agrees it will be worth something because people want it.  The same is true for gold.

This is one reason why I think we need a fixed value (not talking about a currency) system to compare everything too.  I've covered the details in another thread before so I won't recover it here.
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eh?

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Re: Once I'm in NH how can I put my life savings in gold?
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2010, 05:51:25 pm »

Today an ounce of gold is $1400, but I doubt that same worsted wool suit would fetch such a price.

Just a random example:

Quote
A Tailored Suit

2 Piece Bespoke Suit
 
Wool Blend Custom Suit                                 $ 799
Heavy Wool Flannel Custom Suit                 $ 999
100% Virgin Worsted Wool Custom Suit       $ 1099 +
Luxury Custom Suit                                          $ 1499 +

2 Piece Bespoke Suit with extra Trousers
Wool Blend Custom Suit                                  $ 1039
Heavy Wool Flannel Custom Suit                     $1,299 +
100% Virgin Worsted Wool Custom Suit       $1,429 +
Luxury Custom Suit                                             $1,949 +

Hmmm.  Ballpark... Looks approximately on target, considering that this kind of relationship, as has been pointed out, is not rigid.  But the tendency, which is overwhelmingly in favor of gold, does seem to be there.
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eh?

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Re: Once I'm in NH how can I put my life savings in gold?
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2010, 05:58:53 pm »

Gold and Silver just aren't that valuable, anymore.  They lost most of their value when fiat currency was invented.

Ummm....  Are you serious?
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To advocate compulsory taxation (there is no other kind) is to advocate aggressive violence.
Rare indeed seem those who would rather the lash were banished utterly from human interaction save in defense of self and property
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rossby

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Re: Once I'm in NH how can I put my life savings in gold?
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2010, 06:02:37 pm »

The problem is nothing in an economy is fixed, even how much your labor is worth. 

Where's the problem? Embrace the chaos.

Hmmm.  Ballpark... Looks approximately on target, considering that this kind of relationship, as has been pointed out, is not rigid.

No where even near "on target". $800/$1400? $1950/$1400? C'mon, this is way off. A decent name-brand, two-piece suit should cost no more than $500--and you can do even better. You can (and will) pay more for custom garments--and the prices you posted here are from a custom clothier.

Gold and Silver just aren't that valuable, anymore.  They lost most of their value when fiat currency was invented.

Ummm....  Are you serious?

Historically, he should be. Land? Same thing.
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eh?

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Re: Once I'm in NH how can I put my life savings in gold?
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2010, 06:11:05 pm »

Is someone thinks a piece of green paper will get them lots of goods and everyone else agrees it will be worth something because people want it.  The same is true for gold.

Agreed, more or less.

The thing is, of course, how sustained and constant those opinions of other people will be/have been in regard to "green paper" or gold or cowrie shells or whatever.

Gold for thousands of years has almost always been thought of as having a more or less constant value in terms of what it could be exchanged for.   Of course, there have been significant exceptions and times when the relationship did not hold.  But, usually, it has been pretty good.

Please show me the unbacked fiat(s) for which that has been true for an equivalent duration.
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To advocate compulsory taxation (there is no other kind) is to advocate aggressive violence.
Rare indeed seem those who would rather the lash were banished utterly from human interaction save in defense of self and property
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eh?

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Re: Once I'm in NH how can I put my life savings in gold?
« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2010, 06:16:30 pm »

The problem is nothing in an economy is fixed, even how much your labor is worth. 

Where's the problem? Embrace the chaos.

 ;D

Quote
Hmmm.  Ballpark... Looks approximately on target, considering that this kind of relationship, as has been pointed out, is not rigid.

No where even near "on target". $800/$1400? $1950/$1400? C'mon, this is way off. A decent name-brand, two-piece suit should cost no more than $500--and you can do even better. You can (and will) pay more for custom garments--and the prices you posted here are from a custom clothier.

It satisfies me. Please show me some unbacked fiat that has come as close for as long.

I thought you didn't want to talk about this.   :)
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To advocate compulsory taxation (there is no other kind) is to advocate aggressive violence.
Rare indeed seem those who would rather the lash were banished utterly from human interaction save in defense of self and property
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