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Author Topic: Disappointed in FSP numbers?  (Read 16254 times)

WendellBerry

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Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
« Reply #45 on: April 23, 2009, 02:26:52 pm »

Quote
And Wendel... we are reaching out to left libs.
If you know of some groups we should reach out to by all means post a thread on it.  And start recruiting them.

I am suggesting that the FSP needs to reach out to liberals via left-libertarianism to address "social justice" issues in the economic sphere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism

The problem is that there actually aren't many left-libertarians here and the ones that are take a raft of shit for their views.
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Dreepa

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Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
« Reply #46 on: April 23, 2009, 04:22:15 pm »

Quote
And Wendel... we are reaching out to left libs.
If you know of some groups we should reach out to by all means post a thread on it.  And start recruiting them.

I am suggesting that the FSP needs to reach out to liberals via left-libertarianism to address "social justice" issues in the economic sphere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism

The problem is that there actually aren't many left-libertarians here and the ones that are take a raft of shit for their views.
uhm right.. so tell us where to recruit them and because I am not a 'left libertarian'.. it should be I that recruits them it should be YOU.

yes go recruit more 'left libertarians'... at least tell us where they hang out... then go post there and invite them here.
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Trenks

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Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
« Reply #47 on: April 24, 2009, 12:17:14 am »

I think everyone should read the book "How to Make Friends and Influence People". I think if every one of us freedom advocates knows the principles in that book well and uses them, we can boost our numbers significantly.
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BagOfEyebrows

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Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
« Reply #48 on: April 24, 2009, 04:01:24 am »

While I wish the number was up to the 20k already, I wouldn't say I'm disappointed.  Livid might be a better word.  Intensely irate about it would be another choice.
Do you live in NH?

yes.
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BagOfEyebrows

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Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
« Reply #49 on: April 24, 2009, 04:11:12 am »

I seriously believe and think it's possible that by simply reawakening the 'burnt out' liberty/freedom sector, we'll have double, if not triple, if not quadruple the amount of liberty activists first speculated as neccesary to restoring liberty here in NH. 

The only way this is going to be successful is to reach out in a serious way to the left in a way that address their "social justice" concerns.

I reach out to anyone, no matter what their number one issue is - everyone is born with a desire for liberty and freedom (even control freaks and power trippers aren't incapable of understanding/aknowledging the human desire for freedom, liberty and peace.)

Even doms know that not everyone desires to be controlled. 

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BagOfEyebrows

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Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
« Reply #50 on: April 24, 2009, 04:20:17 am »

Quote
And Wendel... we are reaching out to left libs.
If you know of some groups we should reach out to by all means post a thread on it.  And start recruiting them.

I am suggesting that the FSP needs to reach out to liberals via left-libertarianism to address "social justice" issues in the economic sphere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism

The problem is that there actually aren't many left-libertarians here and the ones that are take a raft of shit for their views.

You're extremely charismatic - I agree with Dreepa, if anyone could bring in a fleet of cruise ships full of liberals, it's you - so do it!

Meanwhile, I'll continue my tendency to lean towards hardcore Christians and atheist anarchists and Catholic libertarian-leaning Republicans.  And I have a pretty good 'move early' rate of statistics going, so you might wanna start working on your portion a bit quicker.  You love a challenge, yeh?  ;)
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WendellBerry

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Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
« Reply #51 on: April 24, 2009, 05:34:45 am »

I seriously believe and think it's possible that by simply reawakening the 'burnt out' liberty/freedom sector, we'll have double, if not triple, if not quadruple the amount of liberty activists first speculated as neccesary to restoring liberty here in NH. 

The only way this is going to be successful is to reach out in a serious way to the left in a way that address their "social justice" concerns.

I reach out to anyone, no matter what their number one issue is - everyone is born with a desire for liberty and freedom (even control freaks and power trippers aren't incapable of understanding/aknowledging the human desire for freedom, liberty and peace.)

Even doms know that not everyone desires to be controlled. 



Left-libertarians are interested in EQUAL liberty/freedom.
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WendellBerry

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Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
« Reply #52 on: April 24, 2009, 05:37:59 am »

Quote
And Wendel... we are reaching out to left libs.
If you know of some groups we should reach out to by all means post a thread on it.  And start recruiting them.

I am suggesting that the FSP needs to reach out to liberals via left-libertarianism to address "social justice" issues in the economic sphere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism

The problem is that there actually aren't many left-libertarians here and the ones that are take a raft of shit for their views.

You're extremely charismatic - I agree with Dreepa, if anyone could bring in a fleet of cruise ships full of liberals, it's you - so do it!

Meanwhile, I'll continue my tendency to lean towards hardcore Christians and atheist anarchists and Catholic libertarian-leaning Republicans.  And I have a pretty good 'move early' rate of statistics going, so you might wanna start working on your portion a bit quicker.  You love a challenge, yeh?  ;)

I am involved in several catholic distributist efforts.

The Second Vermont Republic is a distributist movemnt.

You should check out Bill Kauffman's article on Dorothy Day and the right.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0GER/is_2000_Summer/ai_63500751/
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Dreepa

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Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
« Reply #53 on: April 24, 2009, 05:52:31 am »

Quote
And Wendel... we are reaching out to left libs.
If you know of some groups we should reach out to by all means post a thread on it.  And start recruiting them.

I am suggesting that the FSP needs to reach out to liberals via left-libertarianism to address "social justice" issues in the economic sphere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism

The problem is that there actually aren't many left-libertarians here and the ones that are take a raft of shit for their views.

You're extremely charismatic - I agree with Dreepa, if anyone could bring in a fleet of cruise ships full of liberals, it's you - so do it!

Meanwhile, I'll continue my tendency to lean towards hardcore Christians and atheist anarchists and Catholic libertarian-leaning Republicans.  And I have a pretty good 'move early' rate of statistics going, so you might wanna start working on your portion a bit quicker.  You love a challenge, yeh?  ;)

I am involved in several catholic distributist efforts.

The Second Vermont Republic is a distributist movemnt.

You should check out Bill Kauffman's article on Dorothy Day and the right.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0GER/is_2000_Summer/ai_63500751/
and are you inviting them to move to NH?

If not then your original argument is not worth it.
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BagOfEyebrows

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Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
« Reply #54 on: April 24, 2009, 09:08:51 am »

I seriously believe and think it's possible that by simply reawakening the 'burnt out' liberty/freedom sector, we'll have double, if not triple, if not quadruple the amount of liberty activists first speculated as neccesary to restoring liberty here in NH. 

The only way this is going to be successful is to reach out in a serious way to the left in a way that address their "social justice" concerns.

I reach out to anyone, no matter what their number one issue is - everyone is born with a desire for liberty and freedom (even control freaks and power trippers aren't incapable of understanding/aknowledging the human desire for freedom, liberty and peace.)

Even doms know that not everyone desires to be controlled. 



Left-libertarians are interested in EQUAL liberty/freedom.

no, they are interested in equal tangibles - but, it's all good.  I don't give a squirrel's nut how we get the 20k, if you want to get a cruise ship full of economic rent "lefties' to combat the 'rafts of poo' folks, please do it - and do it a.s.a.p. because we could really use a nice chunk of 20kers to move here to New Hampshire within the next year or two.  Just get on it, stop trying to have other people do your work for you, punk, hahaha.  :P

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grl78

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Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
« Reply #55 on: April 24, 2009, 11:21:47 am »

I seriously believe and think it's possible that by simply reawakening the 'burnt out' liberty/freedom sector, we'll have double, if not triple, if not quadruple the amount of liberty activists first speculated as neccesary to restoring liberty here in NH. 

The only way this is going to be successful is to reach out in a serious way to the left in a way that address their "social justice" concerns.
  What are "social justice" concerns ?
I reach out to anyone, no matter what their number one issue is - everyone is born with a desire for liberty and freedom (even control freaks and power trippers aren't incapable of understanding/aknowledging the human desire for freedom, liberty and peace.)

Even doms know that not everyone desires to be controlled. 



Left-libertarians are interested in EQUAL liberty/freedom.
What does equal mean to you. When I hear see EQUAL I am reminded of the passage in "Animal Farm" that goes along the line of "all animals are equal, some are just more equal than others"

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WendellBerry

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Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
« Reply #56 on: April 24, 2009, 01:31:47 pm »

I seriously believe and think it's possible that by simply reawakening the 'burnt out' liberty/freedom sector, we'll have double, if not triple, if not quadruple the amount of liberty activists first speculated as neccesary to restoring liberty here in NH. 

The only way this is going to be successful is to reach out in a serious way to the left in a way that address their "social justice" concerns.
  What are "social justice" concerns ?
I reach out to anyone, no matter what their number one issue is - everyone is born with a desire for liberty and freedom (even control freaks and power trippers aren't incapable of understanding/aknowledging the human desire for freedom, liberty and peace.)

Even doms know that not everyone desires to be controlled. 



Left-libertarians are interested in EQUAL liberty/freedom.
What does equal mean to you. When I hear see EQUAL I am reminded of the passage in "Animal Farm" that goes along the line of "all animals are equal, some are just more equal than others"



Most libertarians believe equality has to be traded off against freedom. I don't.
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maxxoccupancy

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Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
« Reply #57 on: April 24, 2009, 02:41:43 pm »

Regarding the OP, yes the numbers are actually a bit lower than I expected.  I was figuring about 200+ new movers a year, originally.  The flame wars, lack of recent media attention (other than the Ron Paul campaign), and an increased internal focus have led to lower recruitment rates.

I've been doing recruiting for the effort since 2002, when I first signed up for it.  The fact that we're way the hell out in the snow belt somewhere hasn't helped, but we may have had similar problems with Nevada (who's population is now pushing 2 million, anyway).  The fact that we don't have that much money for advertising, the top down nature of the FSP Board, the angry statements made by Board members to activists, the internal debates, excessive socializing, tendency to get too spread out, and other issues have hurt recruitment.

A successful team is one where members identify problems, and where the entire team pulls together to solve those problems and move ahead. In my own opinion, I think that the single biggest problem is the fact that the FSP movement does not do this.  I have gotten countless arguments from people speaking at me, stating that we are not a team or organization, and that I cannot dictate to other people "what we need to do." I'll send you some of the negative PM's I've gotten from people, but you can probably derive what problems exist just by reading the fora.

Problem identified.  Problem identifier rejected.  Organization fails.
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Trenks

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Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
« Reply #58 on: April 26, 2009, 10:39:52 pm »

Do you guys have the numbers of how many joined when somewhere on this site? I'd love to see a line chart showing number of signups per month since inception, with the number of people who move there per month superimposed on that. Cheer up everyone, the worse it gets everywhere else, the more numbers FSP will get! ;). We are headed toward some really serious events and if the economy really collapses and leads to serious social and political unrest like many pros are predicting, I could see a big surge in FSP numbers. I'll bet a lot of people are thinking to themselves when it gets really bad, they're moving to NH.

It would be cool to take a chart showing monthly changes in signup as compared to other statistics, like stock indices or unemployment or price levels or anything else. Maybe its too early now, but after a few years there would be enough data to make it look really interesting. Could be a useful tool.
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sj

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Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
« Reply #59 on: April 26, 2009, 11:09:50 pm »

JeffersonSpirit, yes, there's a chart like that.  Go to the FSP main page and click on the counter in the top right.  That will take you to this page

Regarding what's holding the FSP from getting more signups, it really comes down to two things: volunteers and money.  People can either donate their time or money to recruiting and either one increases the # of signups.  It's really as simple as that, imo.  We got a lot of media attention in the beginning, but that fell off after NH was picked. 

There are people donating both.  I got a few e-mails from people who went to Tea Parties and handed out FSP flyers.  People have also been setting up tables at gun shows and such...there seems to be an uptick in that kind of activity, which is very encouraging.  The other thing people can do is make a small, monthly donation for advertising efforts.

If we had $500,000, we could reach 20,000 in 3-5 years.  As it stands, it will probably be 6-8 years before 20,000 is reached. 




A successful team is one where members identify problems, and where the entire team pulls together to solve those problems and move ahead.

That doesn't happen without top-down leadership.  No all-volunteer organization runs like that.  The way the FSP works is that individuals identify the problems they see and then work to fix them themselves.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2009, 11:11:26 pm by sj »
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