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Author Topic: A Conditional "Maybe"  (Read 12125 times)

RandomAlias

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A Conditional "Maybe"
« on: October 26, 2007, 04:23:43 am »

As a born and bred Mainer, moving to NH wouldn't be a big deal for me -- it's right next door. But as a Ron Paul supporter, frankly I don't know what to make of results like this (PDF document, requires Adobe Acrobat - right click > save as - if you don't have the browser plugin). I realize it's an improvement, but New Hampshire HAS LIVE FREE OR DIE ON THE LICENSE PLATES!!!

Pardon my raised voice, but if a state with THAT as its slogan, a state that is so clearly superior among all states in the freedom department that it has been chosen as the destination of a relocation movement, if THAT STATE is not able to do better than 7% for Ron Paul, yet shows a CLEAR preference for a man who was QUOTED as defining "freedom" as a voluntary secession of rights, a man who was compared to ADOLPH HITLER by his own constituency as Mayor of NYC...

OK that's quite a run-on sentence. But if NH wants that...THING...over Ron Paul... what hope is there?

New Hampshire is supposed to be the single greatest hope for these united States of America. Does NH even realize what a shining beacon it TRULY is? It is surrounded on all sides by socialism, for crying out loud! My home state of Maine suffers the highest tax rate in the nation! And didn't Vermont elect an ACTUAL SOCIALIST a while ago (I was so disgusted when I heard the rumor that I blocked it from my mind, so maybe it didn't happen). And of course we all know about Mass; there's an exodus of people fleeing the tyranny of Ted Kennedy and seeking tax-asylum in NH!

Sorry, I don't mean to pick on NH, I love the state, they're my lifelong neighbors. But this is just disheartening. I honestly expected better. Is it time to change those license plates? I mean seriously?

If NH can show me that it means what it says, I'll make my "maybe" official. But without some strong signal, I might as well stay here in the People's Republic of Maine -- at least I've got family to suffer with here.
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cathleeninnh

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Re: A Conditional "Maybe"
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2007, 07:15:33 am »

Isn't staying in someplace worse just cutting off your nose to spite your face?

Cathleen
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lloydbob1

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Re: A Conditional "Maybe"
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2007, 07:27:55 am »

I assume the 7% thing is derived from polls.  On the whole, they don't poll independents. I'm pretty sure it was a fundraiser held in NH that helped RP decide to announce two days later.
While RP will not fade from history, he is not likely to be president.  The activities and plans of the people who are moving to NH as a result of the FSP and the Liberty lovers who welcomed are what should draw you over to our side of the border.
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"Hagrid"

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Re: A Conditional "Maybe"
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2007, 07:29:26 am »

As a born and bred Mainer, moving to NH wouldn't be a big deal for me -- it's right next door. But as a Ron Paul supporter, frankly I don't know what to make of results like this

Those polls, like all of the other polls done across the country, show a large bias in directions that work against atypical candidates like Ron Paul.  All landlines (so anyone with a cell phone is out), only 'typical voters', etc.

Do I think Ron will take NH? No... but I'm in the minority, at least within this forum.  I do expect him to place at least 5th, and likely 4th, potentially 3rd...  But there are large numbers of FSPers and others working to help him place 1st or 2nd.

NH is still lightyears better than most places... and if you choose Maine over NH, you can have it, it's your loss.

John Edward Mercier

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Re: A Conditional "Maybe"
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2007, 08:21:47 am »

As a NATIVE of NH, I really don't know how to respond to this. Our choice is just that our choice. Many such as myself disagree with Congressman Paul's assessments. His understanding of Article 1 of the US Constitution is non-existant. The transposing of congressional failures onto other institutions, is cleary a case of looking for a 'scapegoat'.
I find both these items disturbing and pertinent to a pattern much more in line with your historic renderings.
 
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RandomAlias

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Re: A Conditional "Maybe"
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2007, 09:46:20 am »

[Congressman Paul's] understanding of Article 1 of the US Constitution is non-existant.

Please provide evidence of this.

Something is either constitutional, extraconstitutional, or unconstitutional. What we've heard of Ron Paul has been largely sound bytes, just like any other candidate. In that context, brevity dictates that he not delve into the extraconstitutional, but confines himself to the absolutes. This certainly doesn't demonstrate a "non-existent" understanding of Article 1 or anything else.

His record speaks to his very deep understanding of the Constitution, and is available in-depth to those who wish to view it. You are free to support, or not support, anyone you wish. You are not free to make unsubstantiated and unprovable statements, unchallenged.
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Denis Goddard

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Re: A Conditional "Maybe"
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2007, 09:52:25 am »

RandomAlias,

It's real simple: we are going to lose some battles, sometimes.

Here's the REAL question you need to ask yourself, and ponder on it real hard: for ALL the freedoms you cherish, do you sincerely believe Maine will be a better place to fight for those freedoms compared to New Hampshire?

Whoever wins the Presidency, there is still going to be a wide discrepancy between states. Some will have confiscatory taxes. Some will abuse Eminent Domain. Some will have unreasonable gun control. Some will pursue the prohibitionist "war on drugs". Some will let the State control utterly the education system. And on and on.

New Hampshire is not the best state on a wide range of specific issues. However, it is the best state in terms of structure of government. That was the deal-maker for me, and that's why my family moved over 3,000 miles from California. I was delighted to find hundreds of other liberty activists when I got here.

This is a big decision. You are doing the right thing by thinking critically and doing your own research. There are some useful links in my signature below.

Whatever your choice, I wish you well.

John Edward Mercier

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Re: A Conditional "Maybe"
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2007, 11:02:19 am »

[Congressman Paul's] understanding of Article 1 of the US Constitution is non-existant.

Please provide evidence of this.

Something is either constitutional, extraconstitutional, or unconstitutional. What we've heard of Ron Paul has been largely sound bytes, just like any other candidate. In that context, brevity dictates that he not delve into the extraconstitutional, but confines himself to the absolutes. This certainly doesn't demonstrate a "non-existent" understanding of Article 1 or anything else.

His record speaks to his very deep understanding of the Constitution, and is available in-depth to those who wish to view it. You are free to support, or not support, anyone you wish. You are not free to make unsubstantiated and unprovable statements, unchallenged.

He uses the term 'fiat money' as its not back by the gold standard. And the US was simply printing it. The paper dollar is a 'note' as denoted on its face. Article 1 Section 8 does not state that the gold standard, or any other standard other than a congressional majority must be used. I'm quite sure his campaign was recently informed of this.

But for more viable proof, here is something more recent.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/N/NH_PRIMARY_FILING_PAUL_NHOL-?SITE=NHMAL&SECTION=STATE&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Paul is the sole opponent of the Iraq war in the mainstream Republican field. A strict constitutionalist, he favors small government, lower taxes and opposes the private Federal Reserve, the nation's central banking system.

"The Constitution says no emitting of bills of credit, so no paper money, so our whole system is unconstitutional," he said.

The Constitutional reference of 'No emittting of bills of credit' can be found in Article 1 Section 10.
No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

He also needs to further define 'private Federal Reserve'... my understanding is this is a quasi-governmental agency.


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lloydbob1

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Re: A Conditional "Maybe"
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2007, 11:07:10 am »

Just a few days after hearing Seth's opinion about RP's chances in the NH R primary, I was listening to listening to a guy with a lot of political experience in NH say RP might have a chance.
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Denis Goddard

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Re: A Conditional "Maybe"
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2007, 12:28:54 pm »

I was listening to listening to a guy with a lot of political experience in NH say RP might have a chance.
Personally, though I'm doing my best to promote Ron Paul in our state (hell, you should see my lawn), I don't think he'll win the primary. That doesn't stop from from doing everything I can do, of course. Hell, I don't even think the FSP will succeed, but I moved to NH from California and spend a ridiculous amount of time and money pushing the libertarian agenda here. :)

Anyway.... last month I was chatting with a former NH State Representative (the former leader of the NH House Republican Alliance) about Dr. Paul's chances, and he was very upbeat about them -- he said Ron Paul has a very real shot at taking the state, and he knows a hell of a lot more about NH politics than I do.

John Edward Mercier

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Re: A Conditional "Maybe"
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2007, 12:40:40 pm »

The truth is you will not know until after the primary. NH is infamous for being very hard to read.
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Keyser Soce

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Re: A Conditional "Maybe"
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2007, 03:38:08 pm »

[Congressman Paul's] understanding of Article 1 of the US Constitution is non-existant.

Please provide evidence of this.

Something is either constitutional, extraconstitutional, or unconstitutional. What we've heard of Ron Paul has been largely sound bytes, just like any other candidate. In that context, brevity dictates that he not delve into the extraconstitutional, but confines himself to the absolutes. This certainly doesn't demonstrate a "non-existent" understanding of Article 1 or anything else.

His record speaks to his very deep understanding of the Constitution, and is available in-depth to those who wish to view it. You are free to support, or not support, anyone you wish. You are not free to make unsubstantiated and unprovable statements, unchallenged.

He uses the term 'fiat money' as its not back by the gold standard. And the US was simply printing it. The paper dollar is a 'note' as denoted on its face. Article 1 Section 8 does not state that the gold standard, or any other standard other than a congressional majority must be used. I'm quite sure his campaign was recently informed of this.

He also needs to further define 'private Federal Reserve'... my understanding is this is a quasi-governmental agency.


Can you define quasi-governmental? The us treasury is a government agency authorized to coin money. The federal reserve is a private bank. They print money and loan it to our governemnt at interest. See The Creature From Jekyll Island for more info.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fgp%2Foffer-listing%2F0912986212&tag=exmeasententi-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325
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"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man; brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." -- Mark Twain

John Edward Mercier

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Re: A Conditional "Maybe"
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2007, 08:10:25 pm »

The Federal Reserve was created by an act of Congress, and can be rescinded by Congress. The Board of Governors is an independent (appointed for terms) governmental agency... not responsible to its shareholders. No private corporation acts in this manner.

But for further insight, wikipedia does a very commendable job of laying out the history and legal status of the Fed.



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Dreepa

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Re: A Conditional "Maybe"
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2007, 09:48:04 pm »

wow this thread is all over the map.
7% in a poll is actually quote high.

What percent does RP have to get for you to move here?

I moved here before RP decided to run... I don't regret it for one sec.

I am busting my ass trying to get RP to WIN in NH... and I do think it is possible (remember 96).
www.ronpaulhq.com  to see what we are doing.
Come to NH on Nov 3 and meet many freestaters, many NH natives and many people from other states to see what we are doing for Ron Paul.
Come to NH Jan 3-6 at the Liberty Forum and see what Freestaters are doing for NH.. you would be surprised.

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Keyser Soce

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Re: A Conditional "Maybe"
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2007, 10:24:00 pm »

The Federal Reserve was created by an act of Congress, and can be rescinded by Congress. The Board of Governors is an independent (appointed for terms) governmental agency... not responsible to its shareholders. No private corporation acts in this manner.

But for further insight, wikipedia does a very commendable job of laying out the history and legal status of the Fed.



Wikipedia... wiki wiki no diggity, no doubt. After Griffin, you might enjoy the works of Ludwig Von Mises or Milton Friedman.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?ie=UTF8&keywords=von%20mises&tag=exmeasententi-20&index=books&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325

http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?ie=UTF8&keywords=milton%20friedman&tag=exmeasententi-20&index=books&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325
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"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man; brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." -- Mark Twain
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