Free State Project Forum

FSP -- General Discussion => General FSP Discussion => Topic started by: ronarchy on April 09, 2009, 06:49:21 pm

Title: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: ronarchy on April 09, 2009, 06:49:21 pm
I'm just curious if alot of long time members are disappointed in the number of participants, early movers and friends? I assume most of you don't regreat moving to NH or being involved. Even with a small number of active people they can get alot done and built a strong community. But does it seem like it's dragging on and on?"Where's the damn 20,000 already?" Has anyone moved to NH and then left?

Some things I've read from the site.

"500 liberty activists move so far (and 1,000 pledged to move by the end of 2008)"
Irena Goddard, November 15, 2007

Free State Project Participation Guidelines
"Should the Project never attract 20,000 signers, the move shall be aborted."
Title: Re: DISAPPOINTED IN FSP NUMBERS?
Post by: sj on April 09, 2009, 07:13:17 pm
I'm just curious if alot of long time members are disappointed in the number of participants, early movers and friends? I assume most of you don't regreat moving to NH or being involved. Even with a small number of active people they can get alot done and built a strong community. But does it seem like it's dragging on and on?"Where's the damn 20,000 already?" Has anyone moved to NH and then left?

Some things I've read from the site.

"500 liberty activists move so far (and 1,000 pledged to move by the end of 2008)"
Irena Goddard, November 15, 2007

Free State Project Participation Guidelines
"Should the Project never attract 20,000 signers, the move shall be aborted."

Once a specific state was announced - once the idea became a reality - signups dropped off significantly.  I'm not discouraged.  The new signups generally sign up with the intention of moving within a specified period of time instead of waiting for 20,000, which is one reason we've seen a large uptick of movers lately.  20,000 will probably take another 5-8 years.  These things take time.  I work hard to make it happen.

If we had just 10 or so more people who would volunteer a bit of time, we could reach 20,000 much faster.  Donating money also helps as we can get one signup for every $100 we spend on advertising.

Come for the freedom and thriving liberty community.  Stay for the 20,000.
Title: Re: DISAPPOINTED IN FSP NUMBERS?
Post by: lasse on April 09, 2009, 08:06:38 pm
The numbers don't attract me - the state that New Hampshire is already in compared to the rest of the world does. If some other folk feel alike, well, that's just peachy too. :P
Title: Re: DISAPPOINTED IN FSP NUMBERS?
Post by: ronarchy on April 09, 2009, 08:31:07 pm
Thats what I figured, just curious. NH does sound nice regarless if there 1,000 or 20,000 or whatever.
I'm still undecided and don't have time to put awhole lotta work in to promoting FSP but have been doing little things to help out. Leaving comments on youtube videos (kinda silly) and will drop off flyers in the next couple weeks at different places. Is there a list of things people can do to help out? What's the google thing people talk about?
Title: Re: DISAPPOINTED IN FSP NUMBERS?
Post by: sj on April 09, 2009, 08:56:24 pm
Leaving comments on youtube videos (kinda silly)

Not at all!

Quote
Is there a list of things people can do to help out? What's the google thing people talk about?

Here are a few ideas.

1.   Join FSP Doers: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fsp-doers
2.   Create a rubber stamp with text like "Want more liberty? www.FreeStateProject.org" and stamp any paper money that crosses your hands.
3.   Join and invite your friends to Free State Project social networking sites on Facebook, MySpace, LinkedIn, Twitter, and Bureaucrash Social.
4.   Buy and show off an FSP bumper sticker, shirt, keychain, or other items from the FSP merchandise store.
5.   Download and distribute flyers, brochures, desktop wallpaper or other material from the volunteer downloads page <http://www.freestateproject.org/volunteer/downloads>. Give to friends, family, co-workers, and other associates or post at cafes, supermarkets, and other public bulletin boards.
6.   Include a link or blurb about the FSP in your email signature.
7.   Spread the word via the internet whenever you can (Write about the FSP on your blog or talk about us on Digg, Youtube, StumbleUpon, forums, etc.).  The Ridley Report is often a good resource.
8.   Stick FSP bookmarks (available from the merchandise store) in pro- liberty books at your local library and bookstore.
9.   If there is a local event (LP, gun show, pot protest, Ron Paul rally) where you think people might be interested in hearing about the FSP, get a booth or hand out flyers.  If the booth or table costs money the local group can pay for it (and staff it) or “FSP central” can pay for it.  The contact point for things like this is Events@FreeStateProject.org
10.   Become a “local group leader.” We can send out an email to all the FSPers that live in your area and ask them to contact you.  Then just set up an informal meeting (pizza palor, bar, whatever) and meet the other FSPers.  You can discuss ways to outreach other libertarians, liberty lovers in your area.  Keep it fun.  Maybe meet monthly.  No minutes, nothing official just figure out ways to reach other people to talk about liberty and the FSP.  If there already is a local group in your area, contact the group leader and start meeting.
11.   Ask friends and family to join the FSP as a “friend of the FSP.”  This creates no commitment to move.  They just get the newsletter.
12.   Write letters to the editor in your area about liberty and mention the FSP.
13.   Leave a handwritten or pre-printed note about the Free State Project on cars with pro-liberty bumper stickers.
14.   Take a look at our organization page and see if there is an open position that suits you.  http://www.freestateproject.org/org
15.   Use GoodSearch to search or buy things. The FSP will receive a percentage of the sale. Be sure to use the links provided.

Title: Re: DISAPPOINTED IN FSP NUMBERS?
Post by: freedomroad on April 09, 2009, 09:37:42 pm
http://www.freestateproject.org/community_center
Title: Re: DISAPPOINTED IN FSP NUMBERS?
Post by: Porcupine Realtor on April 09, 2009, 09:45:27 pm
I'm happy with the level of activism here among the movers already here.  It's greater than I expected.  There are more libertarians per square mile in Manchester by a factor of 10 or better than where I came from (Las Vegas, NV). 

An unexpected bonus is the number of local folks who have really taken to Free Staters.  It's now often difficult to remember who moved and who was already here among the liberty circles.  The Ron Paul movement was a huge boon to our efforts and has made our numbers greater and much more effective.

No regrets!  Come see for yourself... Porcupine Freedom Festival June 25-28.
Title: Re: DISAPPOINTED IN FSP NUMBERS?
Post by: NJLiberty on April 09, 2009, 10:47:40 pm
If we had just 10 or so more people who would volunteer a bit of time, we could reach 20,000 much faster. 

Time my wife and I have. Let me know what you need done and I'll talk to her about it.

George
Title: Re: DISAPPOINTED IN FSP NUMBERS?
Post by: sj on April 09, 2009, 10:58:48 pm
If we had just 10 or so more people who would volunteer a bit of time, we could reach 20,000 much faster. 

Time my wife and I have. Let me know what you need done and I'll talk to her about it.

George

George, the best thing you can do is to start going to pro-liberty events (guns shows, Ron Paul stuff, etc) and hand out FSP literature.  You can get it at the FSP store or by e-mailing <Events@FreeStateProject.org>.  While you're at it, become the liason for the NJ local group (see here (http://www.freestateproject.org/community/localgroups)) and see if you can start working with other Free Staters in NJ (it looks like there are at least a few (http://motorhomediaries.com/garden-state-meetup/)).

Also, I would join FSP Doers immediately <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fsp-doers (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fsp-doers)>.  This will help you keep up with what's going on and chip in when you see something you can help with.

Lastly, take a look at the list I posted above.
Title: Re: DISAPPOINTED IN FSP NUMBERS?
Post by: FTL_Ian on April 09, 2009, 10:59:48 pm
I'm here in NH and SURROUNDED by more liberty loving people than I have time to get to know and we've only just begun.  Disappointment?  NO WAY.

Do we want more people here sooner?  Of course, so come on up!
Title: Re: DISAPPOINTED IN FSP NUMBERS?
Post by: alcamedes on April 09, 2009, 11:32:35 pm
I'll move if I can get sweet potatoes and a plum teaching latin
Title: Re: DISAPPOINTED IN FSP NUMBERS?
Post by: pvincent87 on April 09, 2009, 11:49:22 pm
Below is a relevant quote from an insightful Lew Rockwell column I just read.



"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

Margaret Mead
    US anthropologist & popularizer of anthropology (1901 - 1978)



Don't you want to be apart of that small group?
Could you live with yourself if you choose inaction?

Title: Re: DISAPPOINTED IN FSP NUMBERS?
Post by: Dreepa on April 10, 2009, 07:21:40 am
I'm just curious if alot of long time members are disappointed in the number of participants, early movers and friends? I assume most of you don't regreat moving to NH or being involved. Even with a small number of active people they can get alot done and built a strong community. But does it seem like it's dragging on and on?"Where's the damn 20,000 already?" Has anyone moved to NH and then left?

Some things I've read from the site.

"500 liberty activists move so far (and 1,000 pledged to move by the end of 2008)"
Irena Goddard, November 15, 2007

Free State Project Participation Guidelines
"Should the Project never attract 20,000 signers, the move shall be aborted."

I think that Libertarians sometimes focus too much on the theory and not enough in the doing.  yes many people would like the numbers to be higher BUT... with only 700ish movers (and LOCALS) we are getting a lot done.  And more done every day.  I have heard 5-6 people who were NOT FSPers who came to the Liberty Forum and were blown away by the level of activism here.

But even if all the activism and liberty lovers went away......I LOVE NH.  it is a great place to live and raise kids.
Title: Re: DISAPPOINTED IN FSP NUMBERS?
Post by: George Donnelly on April 10, 2009, 07:35:09 am
@pvincent87 No way, I couldn't live with myself.

Re/ those complaining about the weather - I'm moving from Medellin, Colombia, city of the eternal spring, and giving up beautiful 60-90 degree weather year round for liberty in NH. It's not a sacrifice though. I'm coming out ahead on this deal.

And jobs? I graduated from one of the best colleges in the US but hey I would drive a cab in NH if I had to.
Title: Re: DISAPPOINTED IN FSP NUMBERS?
Post by: cathleeninnh on April 10, 2009, 09:32:23 am
There are some who have left NH, mostly for personal reasons. I don't hear any talk of disappointment in numbers because there is very little talk of the FSP frankly. The focus clearly is on activism and community. We soon forget who got here "on the bus of FSP".

Cathleen
Title: Re: DISAPPOINTED IN FSP NUMBERS?
Post by: Russell Kanning on April 10, 2009, 10:44:04 am
the numbers are getting fuzzy ... well the important ones ... how many people actually move
so all we have to go on are who has actually moved and are doing stuph

I am disappointed that some of the 1st 1000 didn't move when they said they would. Everything else about FSP numbers are just cool. I didn't know how many would move and how soon. The 20,000 number never meant anything to me.
Title: Re: DISAPPOINTED IN FSP NUMBERS?
Post by: Jerry on April 10, 2009, 12:37:36 pm
I'll move if I can get sweet potatoes and a plum teaching latin

Hey, I've always regretted not having a classical education.  I'll give you a sack of sweet potatoes and a basket of plums if you can teach me latin. ;)
Title: Re: DISAPPOINTED IN FSP NUMBERS?
Post by: Sam A. Robrin on April 10, 2009, 01:37:47 pm
I'll move if I can get sweet potatoes and a plum teaching latin

Hey, I've always regretted not having a classical education.  I'll give you a sack of sweet potatoes and a basket of plums if you can teach me latin. ;)

Quid pro quo . . .
Title: Re: DISAPPOINTED IN FSP NUMBERS?
Post by: alcamedes on April 10, 2009, 03:55:39 pm
I'll move if I can get sweet potatoes and a plum teaching latin

Hey, I've always regretted not having a classical education.  I'll give you a sack of sweet potatoes and a basket of plums if you can teach me latin. ;)

always
(semper)

no seriously. if someone wants to put me up, I can teach you a shedload of dead languages, and a thing or two else.
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: pvincent87 on April 12, 2009, 10:41:05 pm
Quote
no seriously. if someone wants to put me up, I can teach you a shedload of dead languages, and a thing or two else.

I think people would be better off learning Mandarin Chinese. I think Mandarin will be the language of business within our lifetime. I could be wrong though...
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: K. Darien Freeheart on April 13, 2009, 12:32:09 pm
The numbers, both the "Early movers" and the "signed participants" are somethign that the Free State Project Inc. uses as a metric to sucess or failure. When I think of the Free State Project, I don't think of the organization, the donations or the PR of a corporation, I think of the human beings moving for more freedom.

The move in my mind doesn't have numerical goals. I want EVERY person who loves liberty in New Hampshire until NH is bursting from the seams and liberty lovers need to move into ME, MA, and VT, declare personal secession and live as if they're NH natives. :P

Am I disappointed that the 20K number wasn't hit in 2006? Yes. Because some wise-ass ALWAYS finds that on the older FSP literature as an example of why the idea fails. Of course, that same question has opened the door to "What's happening now?" and I can de-emphasize the importance of 20K and make the imperative to act NOW that much stronger.

There are hundreds of people who've already moved. I've found that most people who care deeply about liberty want to be part of that trend, that awakening. Hearing of HUNDREDS of liberty lovers is usually enough motivation to convince people because it's MUCH LARGER than anything else they've experienced. I've found the opposite to be true. People who aren't impressed by hundreds of people uprooting their lives to work for liberty tend not to be all that impressed by the prospect of 20K doing it.
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: rossby on April 13, 2009, 04:34:04 pm
The 2006 goal was, imho, far too optimistic. I think 10-15 years would have been more appropriate. (But, hey, how do you really estimate that kind of thing? No one's done this before.)

At the current two-year average sign-up rate, the Project's goal of 20,000 sign-ups would be completed around 2024. It's a rough estimate. But at about 2  sign-ups per day, it sounds about right. If we bump the daily sign-up rate to 3 signers/day it happens in 2019. If we go to 4, it's before 2016.

The fundamental obstacle is just making sure people hear of the project. When they do, the sign-ups inevitably follow. Like clockwork. Back-of-the-envelope estimates still show the number of potential signers to be rather large. Huge really, when compared to the goal of only 20,000. The future participants are out there, I tell you. Of course every partipant makes it a point to mention FSP now and again, right? ;)

Beyond our participant networking effect, we get The Message™ out by advertising in print publications, on the Intertubes, in-person soliciations at various events (usually that's done by our wonderful volunteers!), etc.

The hitch is--and it directly affects the "FSP numbers"--a lot of that stuff costs money. There's another thread on here where sjhipple was doing some Facebook advertising for FSP (http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?topic=16184.0)--and getting fantastic results too. But that advertising wasn't free of course! The actual sign-up rate is dependant on just getting a potential signer's attention for a few minutes. Unfortunately, it too often costs money to do that.

Last I estimated, it takes approximately $175 to nearly guarantee a single sign-up. (That's rough; I've heard higher and lower; don't quote me on it.) That's not what each sign-up costs. Like with the Facebook ads, some cost a whole lot less! And there are other avenues that are still untouched that are estimated to cost under $100 per signer. But, averaged out, that $175 amount very likely gets the message out to at least one person who will sign up.

Point is, right now there's over 9,000 participants! Just imagine what would happen if every one of us donated only $5 a month (http://www.freestateproject.org/donate) to achieving the Project's 20,000 sign-up goal. We'd have our 4 sign-ups per day. And I can daydream for a minute, if everyone donated $25 per month--less than the cost of dining out for two--FSP would likely have the funds necessary to complete the project in under a year!

Too optimistic? Even if all 9,000 particpants didn't donate monthly--say, only 10% of us did--the Project's 20,000 sign-up goal would be completed before 2015: almost a decade--a whole DECADE--sooner than at our current sign-up rate. I once estimated that about every additional $1 donated to FSP right now advances the completion date by about 10 minutes.

Doesn't sound like a lot? Well, it adds up very fast! Especially when you have hundreds or thousands of other liberty lovers doing the same.

The Project's 20,000 sign-up goal will be completed. It has so much volunteer support, nothing short of natural catastrophe is going to de-rail it. Right now, the question is a simple matter of, "When?" The funds we can raise almost wholly answer that question. And if anyone out there would like to see "when" happen sooner rather than later, every dollar you donate to FSP moves "when" just a little bit closer. Donations to the Free State Project can be made online at http://www.freestateproject.org/donate (http://www.freestateproject.org/donate).
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: sj on April 13, 2009, 04:51:29 pm
Last I estimated, it takes approximately $175 to nearly guarantee a single sign-up.

It cost me $80 with facebook.

And you're right.  Monthly donations are very helpful and lead directly to signups.

Even cooler, I recently saw an ad on facebook advertising the FSP...and I didn't have anything to do with it!!  ;D
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: George Donnelly on April 13, 2009, 05:01:02 pm
Seth, it might be mine. I am running one but haven't had the time to analyze results or iterate beyond the first quick try.
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: sj on April 13, 2009, 05:10:30 pm
Seth, it might be mine. I am running one but haven't had the time to analyze results or iterate beyond the first quick try.

Does it link to the new FSP page (as opposed to group) on facebook?  If that's yours, who are you targeting?  What are your keywords?

This is exactly the type of thing I want to see more of!  ;D  Thanks!
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: JamesButabi on April 13, 2009, 06:17:10 pm
I think all of you that moved should be damn proud.  Even the numbers you have there now, with slow growth over time and persistance will achieve great results. 
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: alcamedes on April 14, 2009, 10:12:03 pm
Quote
no seriously. if someone wants to put me up, I can teach you a shedload of dead languages, and a thing or two else.

I think people would be better off learning Mandarin Chinese. I think Mandarin will be the language of business within our lifetime. I could be wrong though...

mandarin is for oranges
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: Dreepa on April 14, 2009, 11:26:12 pm
I think all of you that moved should be damn proud.  Even the numbers you have there now, with slow growth over time and persistance will achieve great results. 

this!
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: Denis Goddard on April 15, 2009, 03:03:59 pm
I just noticed that the giant, long, rambling FSP newsletters don't even have a direct link for donating.

They should take one month and just make the newsletter a short and sweet solicitation for donations.


Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: sj on April 15, 2009, 03:11:58 pm
I just noticed that the giant, long, rambling FSP newsletters don't even have a direct link for donating.

They should take one month and just make the newsletter a short and sweet solicitation for donations.




It's a good idea.  Send your suggestions and submissions to the newsletter editor, Daniel Arbuckle <darbuckle@freestateproject.org>.
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: odigity on April 16, 2009, 04:20:07 am
I just noticed that the giant, long, rambling FSP newsletters don't even have a direct link for donating.

They should take one month and just make the newsletter a short and sweet solicitation for donations.

Yes and no.  It's always a turn-off to me to get literature (like campaign for liberty or JBS) that is just a solicitation.  Let's not turn the newsletter into that, it risks people unsubscribing.

I agree that *part* of the newsletter should be a pitch, like a standard section at the bottom.  However, reading the discussion in this thread about methods and average costs is very informing - and inspiring.  It's exciting to see a concrete relationship between resources expended and results achieved.  This kind of no-nonsense information is what motivates rational people to buy into a product (this is sales, after all) with enthusiasm.  I would agree that perhaps expanding the donation pitch to include this information could be very effective.
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: Russell Kanning on April 16, 2009, 06:13:22 am
I agree
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: lloydbob1 on April 16, 2009, 06:50:39 am
Newsletter are sent to members of the choir.  If we're talking printed newsletters, some pamphlets or book marks (with the contact info) added to the mailing can be passed around by the subscribers.
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: Dreepa on April 16, 2009, 08:22:59 am
I just noticed that the giant, long, rambling FSP newsletters don't even have a direct link for donating.

They should take one month and just make the newsletter a short and sweet solicitation for donations.

Yes and no.  It's always a turn-off to me to get literature (like campaign for liberty or JBS) that is just a solicitation.  Let's not turn the newsletter into that, it risks people unsubscribing.

I agree that *part* of the newsletter should be a pitch, like a standard section at the bottom.  However, reading the discussion in this thread about methods and average costs is very informing - and inspiring.  It's exciting to see a concrete relationship between resources expended and results achieved.  This kind of no-nonsense information is what motivates rational people to buy into a product (this is sales, after all) with enthusiasm.  I would agree that perhaps expanding the donation pitch to include this information could be very effective.

Agreed.
I find it very cool the FSP doesn't beg for money ALL the time like C4L and Center for Small Government or DownSizeDC (used to).

But a small blurb at the end would be cool in fact it could mention a specific project to donate to.
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: rossby on April 16, 2009, 12:45:44 pm
I just noticed that the giant, long, rambling FSP newsletters don't even have a direct link for donating.

They should take one month and just make the newsletter a short and sweet solicitation for donations.

Yes and no.  It's always a turn-off to me to get literature (like campaign for liberty or JBS) that is just a solicitation.  Let's not turn the newsletter into that, it risks people unsubscribing.

I agree that *part* of the newsletter should be a pitch, like a standard section at the bottom.  However, reading the discussion in this thread about methods and average costs is very informing - and inspiring.  It's exciting to see a concrete relationship between resources expended and results achieved.  This kind of no-nonsense information is what motivates rational people to buy into a product (this is sales, after all) with enthusiasm.  I would agree that perhaps expanding the donation pitch to include this information could be very effective.

Agreed.
I find it very cool the FSP doesn't beg for money ALL the time like C4L and Center for Small Government or DownSizeDC (used to).

Gah, I think I'm getting something from C4L just about every other day now. They're about to go on my bounce list. "Obama said this: give us money!"

But a small blurb at the end would be cool in fact it could mention a specific project to donate to.

No matter what, the link should at least be in there. Couldn't hurt to also communicate how various funds are being used in any newsletter. So potential donors know their money isn't being squandered.
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: Denis Goddard on April 16, 2009, 10:13:59 pm
Yeah, the C4L mails go to my trash, too. Both email and physical. Both just begging.

So, yeah, I'm down with a section of the newsletter, hear the bottom or wherever.
It should DEFINITELY say what FSP donation money is used for, ie, "advertising in new media like Facebook", "running the Liberty Forum and Porcfest", etc.
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: rossby on April 16, 2009, 10:25:37 pm
Yeah, the C4L mails go to my trash, too. Both email and physical. Both just begging.

The irony is right after I wrote that this afternoon, I received another spam soliciation from C4L. They call me ALL THE DAMN TIME too. And it's a DC number so it's harder for me to filter out.  ... and somehow my name is in their as "Mrs." Fantastic.
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: Dreepa on April 16, 2009, 11:30:36 pm
Yeah, the C4L mails go to my trash, too. Both email and physical. Both just begging.

The irony is right after I wrote that this afternoon, I received another spam soliciation from C4L. They call me ALL THE DAMN TIME too. And it's a DC number so it's harder for me to filter out.  ... and somehow my name is in their as "Mrs." Fantastic.
first name betsy
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: Russell Kanning on April 18, 2009, 07:22:04 am
one of the bennies of living in the Shire ... you can filter out all the DC calls

lucky they just call instead of demanding money like the irs
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: lloydbob1 on April 18, 2009, 07:23:58 am
DC?  Comic Books......Right?
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: BagOfEyebrows on April 22, 2009, 07:27:58 am
  ... and somehow my name is in their as "Mrs." Fantastic.

oooh...

hee hee hee!  ;)

Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: BagOfEyebrows on April 22, 2009, 07:48:36 am
While I wish the number was up to the 20k already, I wouldn't say I'm disappointed.  Livid might be a better word.  Intensely irate about it would be another choice.

But, having a pretty good idea of why the 20k wasn't reached, and possibly won't be, I let the anger go and focus on doing what I can now that my family is here.  It doesn't take twenty thousand people to revive the liberty and freedom spirit this nation got founded upon.  New movers continue to filter in, many of them not even registered FSP members (for very logical reasons) so the FSP numbers grow in much larger numbers than the counter on the page reflects.

There was already a very liberty minded native sector here in NH that easily and far surpasses the 20,000. 

A lot of the time, effort and energy of first movers is spent trying to get them back into the political bodies they long ago (or recently) 'gave up' on when their own local governments got infiltrated by previous 'movers' to NH bent on turning it into Massachusetts.  One town or city at a time.  So, using that same format, just getting each town or city back to its orginal standing is a good start, and the natives ARE getting back in (sometimes without even knowing an FSPer or being prompted by anything but the realization that if they do nothing it will just get worse and worse.)

Votes are very, very close in town/city government - that's the data to pay most attention to, because it can literally come down to one or two votes now - for budgets or other items.

I seriously believe and think it's possible that by simply reawakening the 'burnt out' liberty/freedom sector, we'll have double, if not triple, if not quadruple the amount of liberty activists first speculated as neccesary to restoring liberty here in NH. 


Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: WendellBerry on April 22, 2009, 03:05:01 pm
I seriously believe and think it's possible that by simply reawakening the 'burnt out' liberty/freedom sector, we'll have double, if not triple, if not quadruple the amount of liberty activists first speculated as neccesary to restoring liberty here in NH. 

The only way this is going to be successful is to reach out in a serious way to the left in a way that address their "social justice" concerns.
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: Russell Kanning on April 23, 2009, 06:27:45 am
While I wish the number was up to the 20k already, I wouldn't say I'm disappointed.  Livid might be a better word.  Intensely irate about it would be another choice.
Do you live in NH?
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: Dreepa on April 23, 2009, 02:21:42 pm
While I wish the number was up to the 20k already, I wouldn't say I'm disappointed.  Livid might be a better word.  Intensely irate about it would be another choice.
Do you live in NH?
I think she does.

And Wendel... we are reaching out to left libs.
If you know of some groups we should reach out to by all means post a thread on it.  And start recruiting them.
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: WendellBerry on April 23, 2009, 02:26:52 pm
Quote
And Wendel... we are reaching out to left libs.
If you know of some groups we should reach out to by all means post a thread on it.  And start recruiting them.

I am suggesting that the FSP needs to reach out to liberals via left-libertarianism to address "social justice" issues in the economic sphere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism)

The problem is that there actually aren't many left-libertarians here and the ones that are take a raft of shit for their views.
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: Dreepa on April 23, 2009, 04:22:15 pm
Quote
And Wendel... we are reaching out to left libs.
If you know of some groups we should reach out to by all means post a thread on it.  And start recruiting them.

I am suggesting that the FSP needs to reach out to liberals via left-libertarianism to address "social justice" issues in the economic sphere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism)

The problem is that there actually aren't many left-libertarians here and the ones that are take a raft of shit for their views.
uhm right.. so tell us where to recruit them and because I am not a 'left libertarian'.. it should be I that recruits them it should be YOU.

yes go recruit more 'left libertarians'... at least tell us where they hang out... then go post there and invite them here.
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: Trenks on April 24, 2009, 12:17:14 am
I think everyone should read the book "How to Make Friends and Influence People". I think if every one of us freedom advocates knows the principles in that book well and uses them, we can boost our numbers significantly.
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: BagOfEyebrows on April 24, 2009, 04:01:24 am
While I wish the number was up to the 20k already, I wouldn't say I'm disappointed.  Livid might be a better word.  Intensely irate about it would be another choice.
Do you live in NH?

yes.
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: BagOfEyebrows on April 24, 2009, 04:11:12 am
I seriously believe and think it's possible that by simply reawakening the 'burnt out' liberty/freedom sector, we'll have double, if not triple, if not quadruple the amount of liberty activists first speculated as neccesary to restoring liberty here in NH. 

The only way this is going to be successful is to reach out in a serious way to the left in a way that address their "social justice" concerns.

I reach out to anyone, no matter what their number one issue is - everyone is born with a desire for liberty and freedom (even control freaks and power trippers aren't incapable of understanding/aknowledging the human desire for freedom, liberty and peace.)

Even doms know that not everyone desires to be controlled. 

Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: BagOfEyebrows on April 24, 2009, 04:20:17 am
Quote
And Wendel... we are reaching out to left libs.
If you know of some groups we should reach out to by all means post a thread on it.  And start recruiting them.

I am suggesting that the FSP needs to reach out to liberals via left-libertarianism to address "social justice" issues in the economic sphere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism)

The problem is that there actually aren't many left-libertarians here and the ones that are take a raft of shit for their views.

You're extremely charismatic - I agree with Dreepa, if anyone could bring in a fleet of cruise ships full of liberals, it's you - so do it!

Meanwhile, I'll continue my tendency to lean towards hardcore Christians and atheist anarchists and Catholic libertarian-leaning Republicans.  And I have a pretty good 'move early' rate of statistics going, so you might wanna start working on your portion a bit quicker.  You love a challenge, yeh?  ;)
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: WendellBerry on April 24, 2009, 05:34:45 am
I seriously believe and think it's possible that by simply reawakening the 'burnt out' liberty/freedom sector, we'll have double, if not triple, if not quadruple the amount of liberty activists first speculated as neccesary to restoring liberty here in NH. 

The only way this is going to be successful is to reach out in a serious way to the left in a way that address their "social justice" concerns.

I reach out to anyone, no matter what their number one issue is - everyone is born with a desire for liberty and freedom (even control freaks and power trippers aren't incapable of understanding/aknowledging the human desire for freedom, liberty and peace.)

Even doms know that not everyone desires to be controlled. 



Left-libertarians are interested in EQUAL liberty/freedom.
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: WendellBerry on April 24, 2009, 05:37:59 am
Quote
And Wendel... we are reaching out to left libs.
If you know of some groups we should reach out to by all means post a thread on it.  And start recruiting them.

I am suggesting that the FSP needs to reach out to liberals via left-libertarianism to address "social justice" issues in the economic sphere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism)

The problem is that there actually aren't many left-libertarians here and the ones that are take a raft of shit for their views.

You're extremely charismatic - I agree with Dreepa, if anyone could bring in a fleet of cruise ships full of liberals, it's you - so do it!

Meanwhile, I'll continue my tendency to lean towards hardcore Christians and atheist anarchists and Catholic libertarian-leaning Republicans.  And I have a pretty good 'move early' rate of statistics going, so you might wanna start working on your portion a bit quicker.  You love a challenge, yeh?  ;)

I am involved in several catholic distributist efforts.

The Second Vermont Republic is a distributist movemnt.

You should check out Bill Kauffman's article on Dorothy Day and the right.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0GER/is_2000_Summer/ai_63500751/ (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0GER/is_2000_Summer/ai_63500751/)
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: Dreepa on April 24, 2009, 05:52:31 am
Quote
And Wendel... we are reaching out to left libs.
If you know of some groups we should reach out to by all means post a thread on it.  And start recruiting them.

I am suggesting that the FSP needs to reach out to liberals via left-libertarianism to address "social justice" issues in the economic sphere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism)

The problem is that there actually aren't many left-libertarians here and the ones that are take a raft of shit for their views.

You're extremely charismatic - I agree with Dreepa, if anyone could bring in a fleet of cruise ships full of liberals, it's you - so do it!

Meanwhile, I'll continue my tendency to lean towards hardcore Christians and atheist anarchists and Catholic libertarian-leaning Republicans.  And I have a pretty good 'move early' rate of statistics going, so you might wanna start working on your portion a bit quicker.  You love a challenge, yeh?  ;)

I am involved in several catholic distributist efforts.

The Second Vermont Republic is a distributist movemnt.

You should check out Bill Kauffman's article on Dorothy Day and the right.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0GER/is_2000_Summer/ai_63500751/ (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0GER/is_2000_Summer/ai_63500751/)
and are you inviting them to move to NH?

If not then your original argument is not worth it.
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: BagOfEyebrows on April 24, 2009, 09:08:51 am
I seriously believe and think it's possible that by simply reawakening the 'burnt out' liberty/freedom sector, we'll have double, if not triple, if not quadruple the amount of liberty activists first speculated as neccesary to restoring liberty here in NH. 

The only way this is going to be successful is to reach out in a serious way to the left in a way that address their "social justice" concerns.

I reach out to anyone, no matter what their number one issue is - everyone is born with a desire for liberty and freedom (even control freaks and power trippers aren't incapable of understanding/aknowledging the human desire for freedom, liberty and peace.)

Even doms know that not everyone desires to be controlled. 



Left-libertarians are interested in EQUAL liberty/freedom.

no, they are interested in equal tangibles - but, it's all good.  I don't give a squirrel's nut how we get the 20k, if you want to get a cruise ship full of economic rent "lefties' to combat the 'rafts of poo' folks, please do it - and do it a.s.a.p. because we could really use a nice chunk of 20kers to move here to New Hampshire within the next year or two.  Just get on it, stop trying to have other people do your work for you, punk, hahaha.  :P

Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: grl78 on April 24, 2009, 11:21:47 am
I seriously believe and think it's possible that by simply reawakening the 'burnt out' liberty/freedom sector, we'll have double, if not triple, if not quadruple the amount of liberty activists first speculated as neccesary to restoring liberty here in NH. 

The only way this is going to be successful is to reach out in a serious way to the left in a way that address their "social justice" concerns.
  What are "social justice" concerns ?
I reach out to anyone, no matter what their number one issue is - everyone is born with a desire for liberty and freedom (even control freaks and power trippers aren't incapable of understanding/aknowledging the human desire for freedom, liberty and peace.)

Even doms know that not everyone desires to be controlled. 



Left-libertarians are interested in EQUAL liberty/freedom.
What does equal mean to you. When I hear see EQUAL I am reminded of the passage in "Animal Farm" that goes along the line of "all animals are equal, some are just more equal than others"

Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: WendellBerry on April 24, 2009, 01:31:47 pm
I seriously believe and think it's possible that by simply reawakening the 'burnt out' liberty/freedom sector, we'll have double, if not triple, if not quadruple the amount of liberty activists first speculated as neccesary to restoring liberty here in NH. 

The only way this is going to be successful is to reach out in a serious way to the left in a way that address their "social justice" concerns.
  What are "social justice" concerns ?
I reach out to anyone, no matter what their number one issue is - everyone is born with a desire for liberty and freedom (even control freaks and power trippers aren't incapable of understanding/aknowledging the human desire for freedom, liberty and peace.)

Even doms know that not everyone desires to be controlled. 



Left-libertarians are interested in EQUAL liberty/freedom.
What does equal mean to you. When I hear see EQUAL I am reminded of the passage in "Animal Farm" that goes along the line of "all animals are equal, some are just more equal than others"



Most libertarians believe equality has to be traded off against freedom. I don't.
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: maxxoccupancy on April 24, 2009, 02:41:43 pm
Regarding the OP, yes the numbers are actually a bit lower than I expected.  I was figuring about 200+ new movers a year, originally.  The flame wars, lack of recent media attention (other than the Ron Paul campaign), and an increased internal focus have led to lower recruitment rates.

I've been doing recruiting for the effort since 2002, when I first signed up for it.  The fact that we're way the hell out in the snow belt somewhere hasn't helped, but we may have had similar problems with Nevada (who's population is now pushing 2 million, anyway).  The fact that we don't have that much money for advertising, the top down nature of the FSP Board, the angry statements made by Board members to activists, the internal debates, excessive socializing, tendency to get too spread out, and other issues have hurt recruitment.

A successful team is one where members identify problems, and where the entire team pulls together to solve those problems and move ahead. In my own opinion, I think that the single biggest problem is the fact that the FSP movement does not do this.  I have gotten countless arguments from people speaking at me, stating that we are not a team or organization, and that I cannot dictate to other people "what we need to do." I'll send you some of the negative PM's I've gotten from people, but you can probably derive what problems exist just by reading the fora.

Problem identified.  Problem identifier rejected.  Organization fails.
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: Trenks on April 26, 2009, 10:39:52 pm
Do you guys have the numbers of how many joined when somewhere on this site? I'd love to see a line chart showing number of signups per month since inception, with the number of people who move there per month superimposed on that. Cheer up everyone, the worse it gets everywhere else, the more numbers FSP will get! ;). We are headed toward some really serious events and if the economy really collapses and leads to serious social and political unrest like many pros are predicting, I could see a big surge in FSP numbers. I'll bet a lot of people are thinking to themselves when it gets really bad, they're moving to NH.

It would be cool to take a chart showing monthly changes in signup as compared to other statistics, like stock indices or unemployment or price levels or anything else. Maybe its too early now, but after a few years there would be enough data to make it look really interesting. Could be a useful tool.
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: sj on April 26, 2009, 11:09:50 pm
JeffersonSpirit, yes, there's a chart like that.  Go to the FSP main page and click on the counter in the top right.  That will take you to this page (http://www.freestateproject.org/about/membership.php). 

Regarding what's holding the FSP from getting more signups, it really comes down to two things: volunteers and money.  People can either donate their time or money to recruiting and either one increases the # of signups.  It's really as simple as that, imo.  We got a lot of media attention in the beginning, but that fell off after NH was picked. 

There are people donating both.  I got a few e-mails from people who went to Tea Parties and handed out FSP flyers.  People have also been setting up tables at gun shows and such...there seems to be an uptick in that kind of activity, which is very encouraging.  The other thing people can do is make a small, monthly donation (http://www.freestateproject.org/volunteer/donate) for advertising efforts.

If we had $500,000, we could reach 20,000 in 3-5 years.  As it stands, it will probably be 6-8 years before 20,000 is reached. 




A successful team is one where members identify problems, and where the entire team pulls together to solve those problems and move ahead.

That doesn't happen without top-down leadership.  No all-volunteer organization runs like that.  The way the FSP works is that individuals identify the problems they see and then work to fix them themselves.
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: Dreepa on April 27, 2009, 05:28:21 am

A successful team is one where members identify problems, and where the entire team pulls together to solve those problems and move ahead.

That doesn't happen without top-down leadership.  No all-volunteer organization runs like that.  The way the FSP works is that individuals identify the problems they see and then work to fix them themselves.
It was to be top down in teams.. Max is right here.  When the FSP has 'team oriented' tasks.... we tend to be successful.. An individual working a project can also be successful but oftentimes the project is bigger than one person.

Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: RichW on April 27, 2009, 01:43:15 pm
JeffersonSpirit, yes, there's a chart like that.  Go to the FSP main page and click on the counter in the top right.  That will take you to this page (http://www.freestateproject.org/about/membership.php).

Looks like the charts have not been updated in a while.
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: sj on April 27, 2009, 01:46:43 pm
JeffersonSpirit, yes, there's a chart like that.  Go to the FSP main page and click on the counter in the top right.  That will take you to this page (http://www.freestateproject.org/about/membership.php).

Looks like the charts have not been updated in a while.

I believe they're updated in real time.
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: maxxoccupancy on April 29, 2009, 12:53:47 pm
I'm just curious if alot of long time members are disappointed in the number of participants, early movers and friends? I assume most of you don't regreat moving to NH or being involved. Even with a small number of active people they can get alot done and built a strong community. But does it seem like it's dragging on and on?"Where's the damn 20,000 already?" Has anyone moved to NH and then left?

Some things I've read from the site.

"500 liberty activists move so far (and 1,000 pledged to move by the end of 2008)"
Irena Goddard, November 15, 2007

Free State Project Participation Guidelines
"Should the Project never attract 20,000 signers, the move shall be aborted."

Technically, the original pledge is meaningless.  The five year mark came and went, and we still don't have the first 10k signers, yet.  There are several key reasons that we don't have 20k movers (which I am not allowed to state publicly--PM me if you want to know why I think that it's this way), and it's unlikely that any of those problems are going to be addressed any time soon.

So, yes.
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: Dreepa on April 29, 2009, 07:56:32 pm
plus it all doesn't matter.

Give us 3000-5000 political types.
1000 non politicals.......
combined with the locals in each group
and we will make HUGE strides.
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: Russell Kanning on April 29, 2009, 09:08:03 pm
and actually i get excited every time I see the counters
over 9000 now and still at almost 20/week
just think if half of those people eventually moved here ... 10 people rolling in week after week

most of these guys that move are activists ... they are rockin and rollin
Title: Re: Disappointed in FSP numbers?
Post by: maxxoccupancy on April 30, 2009, 11:14:23 pm
The only issue that matters to me as a recruiter is one:

How can I get one more...