Free State Project Forum

New Hampshire -- The "Live Free or Die" State => Education/ Homeschooling => Topic started by: JasonPSorens on February 08, 2003, 05:03:10 pm

Title: "Community Schools Initiative"
Post by: JasonPSorens on February 08, 2003, 05:03:10 pm
Here I post some ideas on improving the educational system in the Free State, beyond the privatization plan I've promoted before.

The plan is a "Community Schools Initiative."  It would be a multifaceted project, operating at the state political level, the local political level, and through the nonprofit sector.  At the state political level, our non-partisan league would push a "community schools initiative act", which would provide state support for local communities that decide to transform their publicly owned & operated schools into private, nonprofit corporations managed by the community & the teachers.  The state support would be in the form of an end to "Robin Hood" payments by the local community to the state government for public education equalization, a tax rebate on state taxes to all individuals & businesses in the local area equivalent to the state subsidy, if any, foregone by moving to a private system, and perhaps also setting up a $500,000 endowment for the new community school for scholarships & financial aid.

At the local political level, we would work to elect candidates who are willing to set up community schools under this incentive structure.  In the beginning, we may need communities to set up some of these schools on their own initiative in order to force the state legislature's hand in dealing with the trend.  This brings to mind a question I have: who is responsible, ultimately, for funding and overseeing the local public schools?  Do school boards have power over the budget?  Could a school board decide to privatize?  Or is the city council ultimately responsible?

At the nonprofit level, we would raise money from the community to set up a community school.  We could do this even before the politicos act.  If they do not act in time, we would set up a competing private nonprofit school.  If they do act, the money we raise could go to support the transformation of the local public school into a private, nonprofit "community school."  The community school's Board of Directors would consist equally of people elected by the teachers at the school and major donors to the school.  Perhaps parents of students could have a seat or seats as well.  We could tailor the state-level legislation so that only new schools meeting these criteria would receive the benefits of state support.

In short, I think this is a way to: 1) work to implement private alternatives & show we are good citizens; 2) achieve a significant policy success; 3) gradually transform public schools into private schools statewide, with minimum disruption; 4) secure the support of both teachers, the community (donors), and parents for reform.  Obviously, many details still need to be fleshed out.
Title: Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
Post by: Zxcv on February 15, 2003, 08:49:48 pm
Sounds too complex to me, so it will be too complex for the general public. It also has some unrealistic elements, i.e. setting up competing private schools (in what buildings? with what money?) while the pols debate.

It also has the undesirable element of requiring people who want relief to lobby (beg) their neighbors or school boards, to support the plan.

We don't need government solutions to government-created problems. We need government to get out of the way.

There is a much simpler way, as I said before. Increase the attractiveness of alternatives (eliminating homeschooler regulation & oversight, providing tax credits - not subsidies - for those whose children are educated outside the govt. schools, etc.). Something individuals can take advantage of, on their own initiative (no need to lobby the neighbors). Then squeeze tax revenues down. After a while, people will bail out and the market will provide.
Title: Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
Post by: Ron on February 17, 2003, 12:15:04 pm
Home Schooling in Idaho

http://www.sde.state.id.us/instruct/HomeSchool/
Title: Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
Post by: heyerstandards on May 28, 2003, 11:29:38 am
Whatever "solution" we come up with, it needs to be viewed through the filter of this basic fact:  parents are responsible for educating their own children. It is immoral for the Uncle Sam (or the state equivalent) to reach in my pocket with a pistol at my back and extract funds to pay for my neighbor's education.

I would eliminate the Robin Hood effect as well.  Education is best held as a local solution, and the closer the decisions and the dollars are to the parents, the better off everyone (student and taxpayer) will be.

Obviously, this will involve a transition period.  We cannot in one fiscal year defund all public schools. I believe if our message is consistent: parent know best and parents will pay, the transition will happen.  (Woe to the school district saddled with magnificent new buildings and bond issues.)

"But parents can't pay $11,000 for each student like it costs at the public school," one might reply.  My point exactly.  The costs will drop as the schools are forced to respond.

Please understand my personal situation. I have three kids, the oldest of which finishes kindergarten tomorrow. Our school is funded by our church, and all children attend without tuition.  The school is a mission function of the church (Wisconsin Lutheran), as children need both an educational foundation and a moral foundation.
 
Parents with students understand that tuition isn't free.  Our fellow members are paying most of the freight, since most members don't have children in school.  But it is their personal choice to contribute, and one for which they are rewarded in the long run with smart and moral kids (plus the treasure laid up where it doesn't rust ;D).

Yes, people will step forward to help educate kids when the real need is there.

We only support $11,000 per pupil education costs because the gun is to our backs, and we don't have a clear view of alternatives.
Title: Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
Post by: MajesticLeo on May 30, 2003, 08:16:17 am
So we have a thread here called "Abolish Public Schools" and one called "Community Schools Initiative".  Seems to me they are at odds with one another, unless I am mistaken in thinking that members of the "community" are also members of the "public".  After reading all this, as I have stated on the other posting, what you are after is not the elimination of Public Schools, but changing the way they are funded and perhaps the curriculum.  Changing the name from Public schools to Community schools would appear to only be an exercise in semantics.  While I have to agree with ZXCV that this proposal is much to complex and complicated as stated, resolving it will require complex and complicated actions.  
You first of all need clear and simple goals:

-eliminate the influence of Department of Education
-eliminate reliance on federal funding
-replace dumbed down textbooks with books of value
-replace "teachers" who only hold jobs because they are union members with those who are qualified and want to teach
-require students to succeed based on ability and effort instead of social policy criteria
-eliminate social service aspect of schools and replace with education
-change the focus of schools from creating members of society who must be "counselled" over any incident which might possibly "upset their delicate sensibilities" to self-sufficient people who are able to think critically and become productive members of society.

Then you can think about how to do these things, if indeed the "Community" wants these goals accomplished.  
Title: Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
Post by: JasonPSorens on May 30, 2003, 09:03:46 am
Well, the issue of funding/ownership is precisely what makes for the "public"-ness of schools: remove the public, tax funding, and they're not "public" schools anymore, but they might still be "community" schools.  (One of the arguments I heard against privatization in Vermont was that public schools are the social centers of many communities.  IMO, we can retain this attractive feature while eliminating the anti-choice, anti-competitive, soft-budget-constraint aspects of government-funded schools.)
Title: Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
Post by: Karl on May 30, 2003, 09:54:02 am
Quote
"But parents can't pay $11,000 for each student like it costs at the public school," one might reply.  My point exactly.  The costs will drop as the schools are forced to respond.

$11,000 would get your kid into a pretty good school.  Most of the statistics that I've seen place avarage public school costs per pupil around $6000, and average private school tuition around $3000 per pupil.
Title: Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
Post by: heyerstandards on May 30, 2003, 11:20:13 am
In frugal states, public schools spend $6-7k on the low side. High states (NY, NJ, D.C.) the average is ABOVE $11-12k.  Those are for all schools, dumps and Taj Mahals.  Using Dept of Education stats, I calculated the average across all schools in Wisconsin is $11k.  That includes state and local expenditures.

Do not be mislead by your local district that says "WE only spend $x."  You have to add in the cost of the state bureaucrats the design the curriculum and the "Area Education Associations" or auxillary districts that support the local schools.

I have no idea what the pupil-weighted average is across the country, but suffice it to say, private eduation is half of that, and home schooling is less still.
Title: Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
Post by: RhythmStar on June 20, 2003, 07:00:43 pm
I like this approach.  There are many facets, but they are not necessarily presented to the public all at the same time -- they can stand independently as practicality requires, achieving their synergies over time.  

As to the objections vis a vis community vs public, etc., there is no way to get to the end-point many desire on political grounds in a single stroke.  It must be a process.  Moreover, it must be a process that consists of small steps, each well thought-out  and executed, so that the process goes from success to success.  Over time, with these successes to point to and the good will of the community obtained, a more theoretically perfect state of affairs may be achieved.  In the meantime, aspects of this plan could be moving forward, showing that FSP folk are not only Dreamers and Doers, but folks who can accomplish goals and make the best possible use of their opportunities.

RS
Title: Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
Post by: MajesticLeo on June 23, 2003, 08:26:14 am
One way to increase the level of education in any school system would be to change the "Teacher Certification" process currently espoused by the National Eduacation Association and in effect at all education departments today.  Basically, this amounts to anyone with a GPA of 2.5 can enroll in the education major and  be certified as a teacher following a period of supervised instruction.  The greatest problem with this, in my opinion is the focus is largely on taking so-called "education" courses at the expense of subject matter courses.  Most of these could be replaced with a couple courses in presentation of material, childhood development and classroom management.  Education should not be a major for a degree.  The real need is for people who understand the subject(s) they intend to teach, not for someone who managed to just get passing grades in a minimum of courses in that area.  We need people who want to teach instead of being social workers. (I realize there are teachers out there who are like that but are forced into the social services role because of the political clout of the NEA and drive to eliminate personal responsibility from our youth.)  Just an idea.  I have no problem with everyone taking standardized tests as long as the tests reflect what we want them to know.  Of course, if schools would not simply pass people on longevity instead of accomplishment, most of that problem would be gone too.  Get rid of bi-lingual training as it only delays learning English and fosters separatism.  Institute foreign languages into grade school curricula (preferably with choices of language).  I realize there are those here who cringe at the word "mandatory" always jumping in with the idea that I want to do this at the point of a gun, so I leave out calling any subject mandatory)
Title: Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
Post by: etphonehome on July 01, 2003, 02:47:16 am
I have no idea what the pupil-weighted average is across the country, but suffice it to say, private eduation is half of that, and home schooling is less still.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with part of your statement. You say private education costs half of what public education costs, but I believe this is simply untrue. In Minnesota, where I live, the average amount spent per pupil last year was $7,664. I think that, while many private elementary schools (that aren't fully subsidized by churches) may charge slightly less than this, most private high schools will charge amounts in excess of $10,000 per year. Another important thing to keep in mind is that federal regulations require public schools to spend tons of money on special education students, significantly raising the average expenditure, while private schools have no such requirement. Because of these factors, I do not see how you can make the assertion that current private education is half the price of public education, when the prices are in fact higher for most private high schools.

I'm not saying that the current levels of spending are acceptable, or that the system is perfect, because it is far from perfection. I have posted in another thread my ideas for making the school system completely free from government funding, while still allowing everyone an opportunity to obtain an education. However, I do not believe you should state that current private schools are much more efficient than public schools, when this is not the case.

Sure, a private elementary school in a rural area probably does spend half as much as a public school in the middle of a bad city neighborhood, but if you had to be able to teach students who have 40 different native languages at the private school, as well as deal with all of the other issues that inner-city schools have to face, the private school's expenses would probably shoot through the roof as well.
Title: Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
Post by: JasonPSorens on July 01, 2003, 12:02:24 pm
My mother teaches at an urban private prep school where tuition cost (about 10 years ago) $6,000 per year.  The per child expenditure in government schools was certainly higher than that.  The average salary for a government school teacher was about 250% that of my mother and the other teachers at her school.  At the same time, the quality of education was much higher at this private school than almost all government schools in the city.
Title: Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
Post by: ShadyG on July 03, 2003, 04:39:31 pm
Institute foreign languages into grade school curricula (preferably with choices of language).  I realize there are those here who cringe at the word "mandatory" always jumping in with the idea that I want to do this at the point of a gun, so I leave out calling any subject mandatory)

Truth be told, I cringe at the word "curricula."
Title: Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
Post by: MajesticLeo on July 03, 2003, 08:22:52 pm
Institute foreign languages into grade school curricula (preferably with choices of language).  I realize there are those here who cringe at the word "mandatory" always jumping in with the idea that I want to do this at the point of a gun, so I leave out calling any subject mandatory)

Truth be told, I cringe at the word "curricula."

I am not at all sure why that would be.  Since you homeschool, you must have some idea or plan as to what you wish to teach???  Whatever that plan is, however well formed it may be, is the curriculum for your child/children.  It just means the plan of what is to be taught.  What is so scary about that, other than it is latin?
Title: Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
Post by: jeanius on July 03, 2003, 10:48:08 pm
I understand the cringe.  Depending on your method of homeschooling curriculum can indicate a narrow subset of educational materials.  Unschoolers I know in particular don't like the concept of curriculum since it implies a set of materials rather than an open ended exposure to learning.  With respect to schools curriculum can mean not only a narrow subset of educational materials but also often a biased subset.  After two years of homeschooling my 7 and 9 year old I find that I am more flexible about the materials and methods I use depending on what's happening at home, locally, in the news, etc.  Set curriculum matters less than reading good books, talking about history and politics and exposure to music, art, etc.  My "curriculum", that which is fixed, is Saxon math, Spelling Workout and G.U.M. for grammar.  Much of the rest can and does change.
Title: Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
Post by: MajesticLeo on July 14, 2003, 04:50:49 pm
Guess I am just too old-fashioned.  Having kids "do what they want to do while they are there" is not my idea of school.  Why have any kind of school at all?  Just lay some books out at home and let them "do their thing" there.  I feel students need some kind of guidance in education, but then I also feel there are basic subjects everyone should learn.  (Even those who are going to spend the rest of their lives putting their old Ford's up on concrete blocks in the front yard and yelling at the "little woman" for another beer).   Now, I wouldn't hold a gun to anyone's head to make them do that, I would just send them off to New Hampshire...... ;D

At any rate, kids do not have the experience necessary to decide what they need to learn to succeed in life.  IMHO of course.
Title: Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
Post by: arclight on August 03, 2003, 11:50:11 am
I'd think that the major hurdle to get over would be to take the public funds out of education. Those tax dollars are like the educational HIV. As soon as parents take the responsibility of educating their children, whether by doing it themselves or putting money into a "community school" or parochial one. Either way, the choice has to lie with the parent. No more of that word "compulsory"! And if you have no children, how can anyone justify you paying taxes for someone elses kids' education?? I would personally put money into a community school, for my kids education. I don't believe I would be up to the task of educating my child in the manner I would like, as I 'm not nearly smart enough. So I hope I'd have the good judgement to pick an institution that would suffice. Cross my fingers. Jason: I'd send my kid to your mothers school anyday, look at what she did with you!!
Title: Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
Post by: jhfenton on August 04, 2003, 02:45:30 pm
The plan is a "Community Schools Initiative."  It would be a multifaceted project, operating at the state political level, the local political level, and through the nonprofit sector.  At the state political level, our non-partisan league would push a "community schools initiative act", which would provide state support for local communities that decide to transform their publicly owned & operated schools into private, nonprofit corporations managed by the community & the teachers.  The state support would be in the form of an end to "Robin Hood" payments by the local community to the state government for public education equalization, a tax rebate on state taxes to all individuals & businesses in the local area equivalent to the state subsidy, if any, foregone by moving to a private system, and perhaps also setting up a $500,000 endowment for the new community school for scholarships & financial aid.
I think something along these lines is politically feasible. (We are already seeing a trend toward charter schools. They are popping up all over Ohio, organized by non-profits.) We could co-opt the charter schools movement as a first step to pull finances away from the government-sponsored public schools.

A step-by-step FSP education process might look something like this:

1) "Community Schools" -- aka charter schools, privately-sponsored, but publicly funded [Already happening, to a limited extent]
2) Eliminate home-schooling barriers, including curriculum mandates, and extend freedom to "community schools"
3) Allow communities to either eliminate government-sponsored schools or convert them to private sponsorship, largely free of state oversight
4) Eliminate state oversight and "Robin Hood" payments, replace with tax credits and rebates, all government-sponsored schools and school boards would be automatically converted to private sponsorship.
5) (to be decided)

The first three steps could potentially be done very quickly, or even simultaneously, and would probably be supported by the overwhelming majoirty of the public. The resistance would come from the NEA and education establishment. They are already working to undermine charter schools in Ohio. Still, Dayton, Ohio will have nearly 20% of students in privately-sponsored charter schools this fall. [For reference, Ohio's charter law applies only to the Big Eight districts and to districts with Academic Emergency on their standardized testing report cards. About 33% of Ohio students are in such a district.]

Once the public gets used to competition for schools, the big step (#4) should be easier.
Title: Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
Post by: arclight on August 04, 2003, 03:15:46 pm

[quote author=JWe are already seeing a trend toward charter schools. They are popping up all over Ohio, organized by non-profits.) We could co-opt the charter schools movement as a first step to pull finances away from the government-sponsored public schools.

Quote
Hey jfhenton!
Where in Ohio are these charter schools? I live in Huber Heights/ Riverside! and our schools keep stealing property owners money away into their cavernous mouth. It would be spectacular if these schools were set up here. Maybe I am missing something in the news here, but if you have more info, I'd like to jump on this bandwagon. I really think this would be a start on the road towards community schools, which is something I would have to have for my children. Damn these idiots here in the public schools. I am losing a lot of my hair over this stuff, it's great that a reasoable solution might be in sight!
Title: Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
Post by: jhfenton on August 04, 2003, 04:24:22 pm
Hey jfhenton!
Where in Ohio are these charter schools? I live in Huber Heights/ Riverside! and our schools keep stealing property owners money away into their cavernous mouth. It would be spectacular if these schools were set up here. Maybe I am missing something in the news here, but if you have more info, I'd like to jump on this bandwagon. I really think this would be a start on the road towards community schools, which is something I would have to have for my children. Damn these idiots here in the public schools. I am losing a lot of my hair over this stuff, it's great that a reasoable solution might be in sight!
I don't know anything specific about Huber Heights or Riverside. I believe you are near Dayton, but are a separate district. One big hole in Ohio's law is that it is limited to the Big Eight districts and those who are failing even by the low state standards. If Huber Heights isn't failing badly enough, then you aren't blessed with competition under current law. Lobby your state reps to expand the program.

Here are a few general links:

Ohio Charter Schools Association -- http://www.ohiocharterschools.org/ (http://www.ohiocharterschools.org/) -- with a list of schools by region
Ohio Department of Education Office of School Options -- http://www.ode.state.oh.us/school_options/ (http://www.ode.state.oh.us/school_options/) -- the proverbial fox guarding the hen house
Center for Education Reform page on Ohio Charter Schools law -- http://edreform.com/charter_schools/states/ohio.htm (http://edreform.com/charter_schools/states/ohio.htm)
Title: Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
Post by: arclight on August 04, 2003, 04:58:19 pm
So I see, said the blind man.
Thanks for the info, I will hook the speed dial on my idiot reps and start bugging the crap out of them again. The last time was about house bill 12, the concealed carry reform. Of course it didn't pass. Anyway, thanks for the heads up!
Title: Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
Post by: bIlluminati on September 01, 2003, 09:45:41 pm
$11,000 would get your kid into an elite school.  Most of the statistics that I've seen place avarage public school costs per pupil around $6000, and average private school tuition around $3000 per pupil.

Nope. That's the statistic the government and the NEA quote. What they don't tell you is that teacher cost per student is around $7,000, and building cost per student an additional $4,000 per student for a total of $11,000 per student per year. This cost is about the same for the best and the worst schools, with the worst schools actually costing a little bit more.
Title: Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
Post by: jeanius on September 02, 2003, 10:38:46 am
I'm curious about these numbers.  I think government inefficiency and other factors make the cost of educating a child higher than they would be if managed by private enterprise.  This is partly why education should be private.  There are many other reasons.  

Jean
Title: Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
Post by: bookish_lass on September 05, 2003, 08:59:01 am
It costs nowhere near $3000 / year to homeschool a child.
Title: Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
Post by: RhythmStar on September 13, 2003, 06:42:50 pm
It costs nowhere near $3000 / year to homeschool a child.

Even if you include the time of the parent(s)?

RS
Title: Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
Post by: jeanius on September 14, 2003, 12:00:03 am
The cost comparison is, in my mind, a sidetracking technique.  If there were decent schools, with decent curriculum, teaching methods, hours, etc. schools would be cool.  In the meantime, without decent schools my time to homeschool my children is an extemely worthwhile cost to incur - regardless of cost.

Jean
Title: Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
Post by: bookish_lass on September 14, 2003, 07:40:25 am
I was only thinking of the actual money I have to pay, not the lost wages.  The lost wages aren't as bad as you might think, though.  Certainly while your children are young, you have to pay for child care while both parents are working.  There are costs to sending your kids to public school also.    I think many parents who homeschool also run small businesses from home, so the lost wages isn't really an issue for them.  The intangibles you get from homeschooling far outweigh the lost wages, in my opinion.   I think I'd want to homeschool even if the public schools were good.
Title: Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
Post by: RhythmStar on September 14, 2003, 08:00:25 am
I was only thinking of the actual money I have to pay, not the lost wages.  The lost wages aren't as bad as you might think, though.  Certainly while your children are young, you have to pay for child care while both parents are working.  There are costs to sending your kids to public school also.    I think many parents who homeschool also run small businesses from home, so the lost wages isn't really an issue for them.  The intangibles you get from homeschooling far outweigh the lost wages, in my opinion.   I think I'd want to homeschool even if the public schools were good.

Fair enough.

FWIW, we are blessed with a great school just a block from home.   However, my own experience with public schools was dreadful.  If we weren't so lucky, we would be homeschooling as well.

RS
Title: Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
Post by: jdavidb on September 16, 2003, 11:45:32 am
It costs nowhere near $3000 / year to homeschool a child.

Even if you include the time of the parent(s)?

RS

As my fiance has no desire to work a paid job or have a career, one could say that the dollar cost of her time in teaching our children is zero.

However, I would say that our time is priceless. ;)
Title: Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
Post by: Tracy Saboe on September 18, 2003, 07:30:01 pm
Quote
As to the objections vis a vis community vs public, etc., there is no way to get to the end-point many desire on political grounds in a single stroke.  It must be a process.  Moreover, it must be a process that consists of small steps, each well thought-out  and executed, so that the process goes from success to success.

WRONG!

It's this very philosophy that allowed theRepublican party to get Hijacked by the Neo-Con's. "We're working on it." "We can't do everything all at once" and the state keeps expamding and expanding while they're "working" to make it smaller.

We need to go at complete and total abolishion of government indocternation centers, with both barrals loaded.

The Property taxes people pay for public schools also turns everybody into surfs --  Slaves to the state. By paying property taxes the government actually owns everything -- because we are forced to rent it from them!

The Free State needs to ASAP/immediately stop accepting government funds, and needs to immediately get out of local government. The state needs to also stop interfearing with local schools. The Free State also needs to practice some good old fashioned Jeffersonian principles of State nulification.

We could try to get the State to make it illegal for it's residence to pay Federal income taxes.

Or we could try to get local county or city governments to make it illegal to pay federal income taxes.

Several States have passed laws making it illegal for the Fed to enforce the Patriot act, and several have passed laws making it illegal for local, or state law enforcement to cooporate with the Federal Government in enforcing the Patriot Act.

We need to try and maybe get our local and state governments to pass simular laws about the IRS. Then people who are actually following what the law says about the income tax, won't have to put up with abuse from the IRS's missaplication of the law.

I'm sure if the Free state made it illegal for the IRS to enforce the Internal Revenue Code, force IRS agents to to get permission from both the state Legislature AND State Police, AND then get additional permission from the Local city councile AND the county Sherrif, before investigating a "Tax Abuse case", or whatever more people would be willing for the State to opt out of government State welfare.

Then all that money that would have been sent to the Fed spent on education, could be put into the Private sector in the free state.

We need to ASAP/Immediately abolish whatever State department of education there is in the Free State

Local communities/counties/towns wouldn't mind not having a State Department of Education (Or a State dept of most things), if it meant there residents would have more money for local eduation/government.

We won't eleminate public schooling entirely immediately. But we CAN immediately nulify the Federal Dept of Education, and end state interfearence in education -- putting public education under complete control of local governments.

At the local level we need to loby local governments for a $1 for $1 tax deduction off their property taxes (Or income -- depending on how public schools are finances) (Not Vouchers -- vouchers have strings) for anybody who pays for private schools/homeschooling materials/etc.

By allowing people to in this way "choose" whether or not to support their public schools or not, private versions will spring up.

Quote
Sure, a private elementary school in a rural area probably does spend half as much as a public school in the middle of a bad city neighborhood, but if you had to be able to teach students who have 40 different native languages at the private school, as well as deal with all of the other issues that inner-city schools have to face, the private school's expenses would probably shoot through the roof as well.

Exactly. If education were privatized, people could choose to go to a Spanish school, or French school, or an English schools, or whatever, and Teachers wouldn't need to work with 40 different languages. People parents would choose to sent their kids to school where the parents believe they would get the best education.

And bad neighborhoods are largely corrected by ending minimum wage laws thereby ending unemployment. And also nulifying the Federal drug prohibition laws -- which give the gangs in those inner city's the financial incentive.

Quote
) "Community Schools" -- aka charter schools, privately-sponsored, but publicly funded [Already happening, to a limited extent]

BAD. charter schools ARE government funded with vouchers, and have lots of strings attached to them.

Quote
Quote
It costs nowhere near $3000 / year to homeschool a child.

Even if you include the time of the parent(s)?

Obviously, each parent will have to figure out how much their time is worth with respect to what kind of employment they can get. But I think for the most part, homeschooling would be cheeper then private schooling, because the parent would more then likely pay most of this paycheck that he made to the private school -- thereby making it better financially for him to homoschool his kids. Now, if you made significantly more money, then the price of the school of your choice, to make it worth working and sending him to school, then private schooling would be better.

The main point is, all these decisions need to be made by individual private free people making decisions about their own lives.
 
Tracy Saboe
Title: Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
Post by: LeopardPM on September 19, 2003, 01:35:56 am
I think if we just compare costs of home schooling to public schooling, we are overlooking alot of other things in the arsenal of home schooling.  What is the 'cost' of a parent spending time, bonding, laughing, helping, discussing with their children?  What is the 'true' cost of daycare in how it substitues an underpaid worker for a parent in relation to guidance, support, nurturing, etc?

Although I totally agree that the monetary cost of home schooling is less then that of public schooling... money alone won't convince others to 'risk' trying it or voting for it.

michael
Title: Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
Post by: Tracy Saboe on September 19, 2003, 03:06:02 am
Obviously.

Part of the problem with our society is that parants really aren't responsible for paranting anymore.

Everybody else is.

Tracy
Title: Re:"Community Schools Initiative"
Post by: LeopardPM on September 19, 2003, 11:13:23 am
yes Tracy, and this explains our (yours and mine) political philosophy - bigger government = less personal responsibility in ALL areas (not just education)

michael