Free State Project Forum

FSP -- General Discussion => Prospective Participants => Topic started by: rain4venus on November 01, 2004, 07:18:37 pm

Title: Ballot Access in NH
Post by: rain4venus on November 01, 2004, 07:18:37 pm
this has probably been asked before, but this being my first post, I wouldn't know about that.  So I apologize if it annoys anyone.
I heard that Michael Badnarik was on the ballot in 48 states and DC.  When I went to look up which states he wasn't on, Oklahoma didn't surprise me, because they have notoriously awful ballot access laws (I have a friend from Tulsa).  However, I was shocked to learn that New Hampshire was the other state, since I'd heard of the free state project so long before (through the Atlasphere...haha) and there had even been a link to the FSP on Badnarik's site at one point.  
Does anyone know why he isn't on the ballot in NH?  Are any third party candidates on the ballot? Is there any way for that to make sense?
Thanks for any helpful replies
Title: Re:Ballot Access in NH
Post by: "Hagrid" on November 01, 2004, 08:23:24 pm
Badnarik isn't on the NH ballot due to the Democratic controlled town offices that invalidated enough petition signatures, far more than anyone expected they would.  Expect a lawsuit over it, and changes in the future.

There are other threads on this... perhaps someone can link to them.

Besides which, think of this as another think 20K activists in NH would have fixed. (It was only 3000 signatures needed)
Title: Re:Ballot Access in NH
Post by: Greenbacks on November 01, 2004, 09:23:56 pm
only allegations - no proof.

Nader is on the ballot.
Title: Re:Ballot Access in NH
Post by: "Hagrid" on November 01, 2004, 09:36:59 pm
Actually, Greeny, there is proof.... dated signed sealed envelopes.

You're wrong.  Expect a change in the way Signature Validation is done, thanks to the LP's discovery that towns aren't doing it in a timely manner.
Title: Re:Ballot Access in NH
Post by: "Hagrid" on November 01, 2004, 10:31:05 pm
I heard paid petitioners collected for both Nader and Badnarik, and in NH you can only sign for one candidate, and Nader's all got certified first.

You heard wrong, I think.  The details I heard are entirely different.

Quote
This court stuff? (http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?board=7;action=display;threadid=8351;start=msg112781#msg112781)
This one isn't about that.

No, not that one.  That is one that was filed, no actions will be taken until January (I think) by the courts.  I'm talking about another potential one that will likely get looked at by the ballot commisson as an issue first, and if changes aren't made, filed then.

Quote
I think they are saying 3000 petitions is too hard to get.

ANd what if you get 5000, and and send them to the towns, and some of the towns don't get them back to the party before the deadline they are required to, to the point of missing entire towns that were collected
and returned only after the deadline (according to sealed and dated envelopes).

Getting 1500 and 1500 is another issue likely to change... when it's a statewide election, why is there a 1500+1500 requirement?

Quote
It makes sense when the LPNH is busy helping Gov. Benson to get re-elected, and Benson is trying to get Bush re-elected.

Except that the signature gatherers got enough sigs.... more than enough, despite having too few volunteers.

Badnarik was not the only person disqualified... Petrouka had plenty of sigs... and they failed to get them certified in a timely manner too.  If they'd submitted the sigs months earlier (they had them all done), they'd have been on the ballot... but they never figured on this same lack of timely sig validation.

Title: Re:Ballot Access in NH
Post by: Old Nick on November 02, 2004, 12:38:42 am
Why would the Democrats sabotage a Party which prevents more votes going to Bush than to Kerry?? Are these people just fucking stupid?
Title: Re:Ballot Access in NH
Post by: Greenbacks on November 02, 2004, 07:33:28 am
Why would the Democrats sabotage a Party which prevents more votes going to Bush than to Kerry?? Are these people just fucking stupid?

no they think we are stupid!
Title: Re:Ballot Access in NH
Post by: Greenbacks on November 02, 2004, 08:07:54 am
Quote
Do you mean to tell me the town clerks are all democrats, and they all agreed not to certify signatures on time?

in a state that is overwhelmingly dominated by registered Republicans?
Title: Re:Ballot Access in NH
Post by: "Hagrid" on November 02, 2004, 08:08:44 am
fisher, you are still trolling...  If you wish the details, contact the NHLP, identify yourself and ask for more details.  I'm not doing to debate you, nor continue this 'argument' when I stated the facts as I know them (from LP staff)

The word "Democratic" was mine, not the LPs, but the pattern of towns does sound to me like it wasn't every town, and given the behavior I've seen from Democrats here, it wouldn't surprise me.
Title: Re:Ballot Access in NH
Post by: "Hagrid" on November 02, 2004, 08:09:48 am
Quote
Do you mean to tell me the town clerks are all democrats, and they all agreed not to certify signatures on time?

in a state that is overwhelmingly dominated by registered Republicans?

Actually, not true... it's about 1/3, 1/3 and 1/3 Independent...

and I never said ALL towns, I said some towns.
Title: Re:Ballot Access in NH
Post by: Greenbacks on November 02, 2004, 08:13:07 am
Quote
Do you mean to tell me the town clerks are all democrats, and they all agreed not to certify signatures on time?

in a state that is overwhelmingly dominated by registered Republicans?

Actually, not true... it's about 1/3, 1/3 and 1/3 Independent...

and I never said ALL towns, I said some towns.

35% Republican
28% Democrat
37% Independent

Governor, Senate, House - all Republican majorities
Title: Re:Ballot Access in NH
Post by: cathleeninnh on November 02, 2004, 08:26:48 am
The news last night reported that statewide fully 40% are undeclared.

Cathleen
Title: Re:Ballot Access in NH
Post by: "Hagrid" on November 02, 2004, 09:36:51 am
Badnarik signs:  Yes.  On the back of my car.
Since he's not on the ballot, the number of signs has been small.

Democrat activity: I've witnessed it first hand on multiple occasions in just the last few weeks.  Why are the Democrats busing people from Massachusetts to rally and hold signs?  Aren't there enough Democrat people in NH?  So far, the Republicans have been polite, the Democrats anything but.  Real world experience counts.

Concord is a big government town, and based on responses from cars while holding signs, Benson is popular even here.  I expect him to win.

As for the rest, as I said: go talk to LPNH people yourself.  I'm done talking to trolls.
Title: Re:Ballot Access in NH
Post by: cathleeninnh on November 02, 2004, 11:44:22 am
There are plenty of non NH democrats running aroung Manchester today with signs and such. Doesn't really bother me if they don't vote. I am a little afraid they might.

Here is what I witnessed this morning at the polls. We were met at the door with a greeter who said "Registered voters to the left, to the right to register. If you don't have proper id, your friend can vouch for you." Those were his words. I didn't witness how it actually worked.

Our polling place is in the health services building. It was very busy and many of the voters near me were mental health patients discussing picking up their checks and their counseling. After receiving his ballot. One man asked for assistance. The helper asked who he wanted to vote for and he said "I am a Democrat" She said to just mark the straight ticket and helped him find it and do it.

Just my experience. And a new one at that as I have never lived in an urban area before.

Oh, and I saw a Badnarik yard sign yesterday while driving to the store.

Cathleen
Title: Re:Ballot Access in NH
Post by: Old Nick on November 03, 2004, 03:09:15 pm
What utter incompetence. Perhaps Babiarz should be replaced??
Title: Re:Ballot Access in NH
Post by: "Hagrid" on November 03, 2004, 03:19:59 pm

Is it possible that those MA people work in NH? I think I heard Mike Lorrey claim they were paid, but that seems unlikely. I think he also said some were teamsters...

They come up in Buses... they all arrive and leave together.  When asked where they are from, they hesitate and then claim someplace else in NH (different places).  Sorry, but the union story seems outlandish until you see them first hand.

I also think that we need to fix the Election Day registration.  I'm convinced Benson lost by 20K people who voted straight Democratic Ticket on orders, registering from MA and signing a 'NH resident affidavit.'  20K sounds like a lot, until you look at the huge voter turnout, and WHERE it happened, and the effect on races that were local races where it's a strong Rep turnout historically (and suddenly it's Demo central?)
Title: Re:Ballot Access in NH
Post by: Greenbacks on November 03, 2004, 03:43:03 pm
Quote
I'm convinced Benson lost by 20K people who voted straight Democratic Ticket on orders, registering from MA and signing a 'NH resident affidavit.'  20K sounds like a lot, until you look at the huge voter turnout, and WHERE it happened, and the effect on races that were local races where it's a strong Rep turnout historically (and suddenly it's Demo central?)

face the facts not the spin - the man was hated by everyone because of his arrogance and ethical lapses.

plus like all diletantes he simply got bored with governing and put in a lackluster effort at campaigning.

it had nothing to do with his ideology because NH is trully a small government state but also we are contrarians at heart.
Title: Re:Ballot Access in NH
Post by: "Hagrid" on November 03, 2004, 05:32:03 pm
face the facts not the spin - the man was hated by everyone because of his arrogance and ethical lapses.

Wrongo.  I was holding Benson signs in the heart of Concord, where according to that logic, he should have been universally hated.  Instead, he was getting strong positive responses (at least 30%, which he got vote-wise)... If the response was that good in the place he's most hated, then he should have won... and in fact, when you go to the county by county, I think it's easy to see which polling places were WAY off...  You want to avoid reality, fine... but I know what I saw: the Democrats hated losing NH in 2000, and were willing to do whatever it took to win it, after all the ends justify the means.  The folks I saw working for Kerry and the Democrats were not Native, and they were not people who moved here... but I'm sure lots of them voted.
Title: Re:Ballot Access in NH
Post by: JasonPSorens on November 03, 2004, 08:12:16 pm
This is what the Sept/Oct LPNH newsletter says (a snippet):

"National asked, and we said we needed help.  One week before the deadline we got a call that the petitioners were in the state.  One team didn't even reach their low goal, the other team did get 500 signatures for us.  But they also worked for Nader, which potentially nullified many signatures since the law says you can only sign one petition."
Title: Re:Ballot Access in NH
Post by: "Hagrid" on November 04, 2004, 02:10:29 pm
<<republican conspiracy theory nonsense deleted>>

Whatever.  People here on the ground, like me, like Ed Naile (who took photos), and others, all noticed the large pecentage of 'Out of State' plates with Kerry stickers, who held signs, or who went to polling places, posed as 'exit pollers' to get in, and then advised people to vote Kerry (this is reported in the paper).  Yeah, it's nonsense... whatever.
The 'domicile' requirement was almost waived this election, thanks to an extremely soft view of it, which election officials were told was ok to do.

Kerry's machine was pretty damn dishonest.  I saw lots of Kerry signs around... what happened to the Bush signs? (and Benson signs, etc?)
Someone was pulling them and trashing them...

I am NOT saying the Republicans don't play dirty politics either... history proves that...  But anyone who thinks Kerry really won NH fair and square is wrong... else you witness it, you can't judge those who did.
Title: Re:Ballot Access in NH
Post by: Greenbacks on November 04, 2004, 03:11:42 pm
Quote
but I'm sure lots of them voted

pure speculation.

why weren't they challanged by poll watchers from the Republican side?

Bush has never been liked here in NH. Not by anyone who calls themselves a fiscal conservative and anti-imperialist!

For pete sake he lost to McCain by 20% in the 2000 NH primary and his father (no evangelical christian) lost big to the paleo-conservative Buchanan by about the same margin!!