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FSP -- General Discussion => Prospective Participants => Topic started by: Visitor-X on October 02, 2003, 04:29:12 am

Title: I heard that FSP wants to secede...
Post by: Visitor-X on October 02, 2003, 04:29:12 am
I heard that FSP wants to secede from the United States, is this true?
Title: Re:I heard that FSP wants to secede...
Post by: Morpheus on October 02, 2003, 04:42:00 am
NO.
Title: Re:I heard that FSP wants to secede...
Post by: Stan on October 02, 2003, 06:15:16 am
No.
Title: Re:I heard that FSP wants to secede...
Post by: Sebastian on October 02, 2003, 08:58:41 am
No, because I wouldn't have joined if that was their goal.
Title: Re:I heard that FSP wants to secede...
Post by: thegotoguy on October 02, 2003, 08:58:58 am
only those of us with a death wish would even consider seceding from the union.  we all know what happened last time it was tried.
Title: Re:I heard that FSP wants to secede...
Post by: Number_6 on October 02, 2003, 10:31:26 am
On a national level, I would like to see all 50 states unite and restore the original Republic.
Title: Re:I heard that FSP wants to secede...
Post by: The Naked Porcupine on October 02, 2003, 11:44:04 am
I wouldn't doubt that there are secessionists among the porcupines.  However, I think they are an extremist minority, from what I've seen.

However, there are some that list New Hampshire's constitutionally preserved rights to revolution and secession as a big plus for the State.

I think this is an interesting side note about the state of New Hampshire. I don't seriously expect those rights will ever be necessary. I think maybe some people are comforted that they're there, though, "just in case all else fails".

Greg
Title: Re:I heard that FSP wants to secede...
Post by: RhythmStar on October 02, 2003, 12:26:57 pm
Nah!  I'm too much of a Merle fan to consider secession, particularly when all the due process avenues have yet to be fully exercised.

RS
Title: Re:I heard that FSP wants to secede...
Post by: thewaka on October 02, 2003, 08:52:44 pm
I heard that FSP wants to secede from the United States, is this true?

Please read the FAQ. It answers many questions, including this one.

FSP FAQ (http://www.freestateproject.org/faqs.htm)

Diana
Title: Re:I heard that FSP wants to secede...
Post by: Sean Coven on October 02, 2003, 09:00:03 pm
Some members bat around the concept of secession. Ultimately the leaders of the project and the vast majority of members acknowledge the concept for precisely what it is -- a bargaining chip in negotiations with the federal government. Nothing less, and thankfully, nothing more.
Title: Re:I heard that FSP wants to secede...
Post by: Reaper on October 03, 2003, 05:35:44 pm
No, that was succeed!    ;D
Title: Legal secession?
Post by: MrVoluntarist on October 13, 2003, 05:09:28 pm
Extreme hypothetical: what if the federal government offered NH full independence in exchange for a one-time payment?

More generally: Does the FSP promote legal secssion (i.e., that the federal government consents to)?  How about most FSPers?
Title: Re:Legal secession?
Post by: atr on October 13, 2003, 06:50:31 pm
Extreme hypothetical: what if the federal government offered NH full independence in exchange for a one-time payment?

Wouldn't that set up the U.S. military to initiate a "regime change"? Then they'd have our payment and our independence.
Title: Re:Legal secession?
Post by: Terry 1956 on October 13, 2003, 08:34:15 pm
Extreme hypothetical: what if the federal government offered NH full independence in exchange for a one-time payment?

Wouldn't that set up the U.S. military to initiate a "regime change"? Then they'd have our payment and our independence.
                                                                         
  LOL, that is a good one but possible. Why is the US government supposdly concieved in Liberty so forceful in keeping the Union? Why is the government of Canada willing to extent the right of a Provience to leave the fold?
Title: Re:Legal secession?
Post by: rodschmidt on October 13, 2003, 10:57:40 pm
Extreme hypothetical: what if the federal government offered NH full independence in exchange for a one-time payment?

They won't.

Quote
More generally: Does the FSP promote legal secssion (i.e., that the federal government consents to)?  How about most FSPers?

The Confederacy argued that they had done a legal secession.  They're probably right.  It didn't matter.

The FSP promotes moving 20,000 activists to a single state.
Title: Re:Legal secession?
Post by: MrVoluntarist on October 14, 2003, 01:49:35 am

The Confederacy argued that they had done a legal secession.  They're probably right.  It didn't matter.

I like how you paid attention to how I specifically defined legal secession there to mean that the federal government consents to it.  This remark makes you look intelligent.

Quote
The FSP promotes moving 20,000 activists to a single state.

More great moments in wisecracks.
Title: Re:Legal secession?
Post by: Terry 1956 on October 14, 2003, 08:22:11 am

The Confederacy argued that they had done a legal secession.  They're probably right.  It didn't matter.

I like how you paid attention to how I specifically defined legal secession there to mean that the federal government consents to it.  This remark makes you look intelligent.

Quote
The FSP promotes moving 20,000 activists to a single state.

More great moments in wisecracks.
                                                                               how about pushing to allow neigborhoods to secede from local governments. I read somewhere this is allowed in Maine and either  Oregon or Washinton allows a certain number of people to start a new county.
Title: Re:Legal secession?
Post by: Mike Lorrey on October 14, 2003, 02:51:04 pm
What is now the township of Pittsburg, NH was at one time an idependent country, a country that formed decades after the revolutionary war, and which was only reannexed when the citizens of that country asked to be. This township was called the Republic of Indian Stream, and you can read Daniel Doan's book on its history. Indian Stream was formed not out of a grant by a european sovereign, but from a grant by the St Francis indian chief known as "King Phillip".

Similarly, what is now Vermont was once part of NH. Ethan and Ira Allen and their compatriots formed their own state after the revolution and their ratification of the US Constitution was only accepted by the Congress after Vermont agreed to return to NH jurisdiction a number of towns on the east bank of the Connecticutt that had voted for secession along with the rest of Vermont.

So the picture for political secession in the twin state area actually has a pretty well known and peaceful history. Things only came to blows in Indian Stream when Canada was going to invade and annex it.
Title: Re:Legal secession?
Post by: BillG on October 15, 2003, 11:02:21 am
Quote
Similarly, what is now Vermont was once part of NH. Ethan and Ira Allen and their compatriots formed their own state after the revolution and their ratification of the US Constitution was only accepted by the Congress after Vermont agreed to return to NH jurisdiction a number of towns on the east bank of the Connecticutt that had voted for secession along with the rest of Vermont.

Mike - point of clarification, I think if you check the history books Vermont was actually a Republic for 14 years having it's own treaties with other countries, etc.  before it was a State that joined the union...

A good reference is in the book: "The Vermont Papers" which I highly recommend reading as a blue print for the FSP here in NH. Otherwise click on this link for more info:

http://www.angelfire.com/vt/republicvt/call.html (http://www.angelfire.com/vt/republicvt/call.html)
Title: Re:I heard that FSP wants to secede...
Post by: rdeacon on October 20, 2003, 10:04:02 am
At the end of the day, we don't want secession.  We want the rest of America to see our example and make positive changes in our image.  However, if it comes to secession or failure....I'm still torn on whether or not I would advocate it.
Title: Re:I heard that FSP wants to secede...
Post by: Roycerson on October 22, 2003, 07:22:38 pm
Those interested in secession would do well to read the works of "Publius" as published in "The Federalist Papers".  84 essays by Hamilton, Madison, and Jay lay out in very distinct fashion the many reasons chosen to ratify the constitution.  I believe that if the "Bill of Rights" and "Enumerated Powers Clause" were enforced persuant to their original meaning those angling for secession would have no more reason.  

I like to believe that the FSP is dedicated to achieving realistic goals.  Why waste valuable intellectual energy on a proposition so destined to failure.  Whoever is out there worrying about seccession stop anow nd start collecting names of those interested in making a down payment on the construction of a new home.  We get fifty and we have ourselves a housing development with utilities (maybe even wind power), a community park,swimming pool and gates that will not help a bit when the National Guard rolls a tank through them in order to destroy the homes of all our foolish neighbors designated as traitors, spys and enemies of the state.  If one of you people get my house blown up I'm going to be positively irate.  
I've read posts from those that fear the CIA/FBI/ATF and related "alphabet soup" will interfere with our peaceful project.  Talk like that will no doubt ensure that becomes a reality.  I personally will end all contact with any person involved in such planning.  I'm not going to be anywhere close when that @*#& hits the fan.  
Quit trying to destroy our plans and get busy building them.

No way are 20,000 people much less an entire state of 1.5 million going to get away without paying their taxes this year.  
Title: Re:I heard that FSP wants to secede...
Post by: George Phillies on October 22, 2003, 11:17:32 pm
As the man above said, we want to improve education so that most people can spell "succeed" correctly.  For some people, it is still a challenge.

The fellow talking about secession was a liberal Democrat, writing in the This Week In Review section of the New York Times a Sunday or two after the Gore-Bush election had the public voting event and advanced to litigatory warfare.  He was despairing of the future of the Republic under a Republican President, noting the profoundly deep vote division where areas went 70-30 or more for each candidate in the past two elections, and asking if the Red and Blue areas of the country would be better as two countries.

I believe we would like one country.  With 50 states, all free, surrounding by 198 (your count may vary) other countries, also all free.

FREE STATE
FREE COUNTRY
FREE WORLD

George Phillies
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