Free State Project Forum

FSP Community => Porcupine Festival => Topic started by: Boston T. Party on March 10, 2014, 01:39:57 am

Title: best airport for private pilots to land/tie-down for Porcfest?
Post by: Boston T. Party on March 10, 2014, 01:39:57 am
Any fellow pilots flying in this year?
Any comments/advice regarding my two nearby choices for ASEL (Airplane Single Engine Land)?
Arriving VFR from the west.

KHIE - Mount Washington Regional Airport
KBML - Berlin Regional Airport

Thanks,
Boston
Title: Re: best airport for private pilots to land/tie-down for Porcfest?
Post by: Boston T. Party on March 12, 2014, 09:53:14 pm
OK, I'll zoom out with my query:  Are there any pilots at all in the FSP?

The only aviation thread I could find was a commercial helicopter pilot offering to split costs from Maryland years ago.

Thanks,

Boston
Title: Re: best airport for private pilots to land/tie-down for Porcfest?
Post by: Bazil on March 13, 2014, 02:57:59 pm
I'm sure there are, probably not on here though.
Title: Re: best airport for private pilots to land/tie-down for Porcfest?
Post by: freedomroad on March 14, 2014, 03:10:17 am
OK, I'll zoom out with my query:  Are there any pilots at all in the FSP?

The only aviation thread I could find was a commercial helicopter pilot offering to split costs from Maryland years ago.

Thanks,

Boston

The only Pilots I know are 2 past presidents. I FB messaged 1 of them with a link to your post.
Title: Re: best airport for private pilots to land/tie-down for Porcfest?
Post by: varrin on March 14, 2014, 01:33:48 pm
OK, I'll zoom out with my query:  Are there any pilots at all in the FSP?

The only aviation thread I could find was a commercial helicopter pilot offering to split costs from Maryland years ago.

Thanks,

Boston

The only Pilots I know are 2 past presidents. I FB messaged 1 of them with a link to your post.

That worked... :) There's also, Kevin. I think he's single-engine current (it's been quite a while since I flew something with a 5-digit or smaller MTOW).

Some friends from here in the Keene area flew up a few years back (a radio host and his pilot buddy, maybe in a 172 or 182?). They used Mt. Washington Regional in Whitefield. It's a fairly short drive from there to Rogers (~20 minutes maybe). 4001x75 fits just about any single nicely.

I'll ping Kevin and see if he wants to chime in.

V-
Title: Re: best airport for private pilots to land/tie-down for Porcfest?
Post by: aworldnervelink on March 14, 2014, 08:38:20 pm
Yes, I am current, and I think Mount Washington Regional should work out just fine for VFR. You might actually have more trouble on the ground because the airport is a ways from the highway and not well marked. I drove by there a few months ago and the facilities are pretty sparse, so I don't know if you'll get an actual rope tiedown, but according to AirNav there is self-serve 100LL available by credit card.
Title: Re: best airport for private pilots to land/tie-down for Porcfest?
Post by: Russell Kanning on March 16, 2014, 08:06:55 pm
We picked up a guy at that airport .... so it worked for them.
Title: Re: best airport for private pilots to land/tie-down for Porcfest?
Post by: Boston T. Party on March 16, 2014, 08:11:12 pm
aworldnervelink, thanks for the info.  I can tiedown in turf if there are no hardpoints.
You prefer KHIE over KBML?

No rental cars at either, so I'll have to offer an airplane ride in exchange for some ground transportation.
I suspect there are some traders at PF.

___________
Quote
(it's been quite a while since I flew something with a 5-digit or smaller MTOW)
Well, ha, ha, ha!
Varrin, you've gotten all spoiled in multis and jets with G1000 panels.  IFR during VMC. 
In fact, it's so bad they have to pay you to fly that way, you poor man! 

I hand-flew a 172 last year 300 hours to 18 states and the thing hadn't an autopilot or even rudder trim.
Or fuel injection.  Or retractable gear.  Or XM Weather.  Or heated seats.  Or . . .

Varrin, go jump in a Cub or something before "them 'puterized" cockpits ruin you for good.
 ;D
Boston
Title: Re: best airport for private pilots to land/tie-down for Porcfest?
Post by: varrin on March 17, 2014, 08:02:18 pm
Varrin, go jump in a Cub or something before "them 'puterized" cockpits ruin you for good.

That's a seriously good idea. I did hear about this guy bringing a 172 to PorcFest. Hmmmmm.... ;)

V-

Title: Re: best airport for private pilots to land/tie-down for Porcfest?
Post by: Boston T. Party on March 18, 2014, 07:03:05 pm
Varrin, go jump in a Cub or something before "them 'puterized" cockpits ruin you for good.

That's a seriously good idea. I did hear about this guy bringing a 172 to PorcFest. Hmmmmm.... ;)

V-

Glad you think so.  Hope to see you at the airport.
Don't forget some recurrency training for carb heat, steam gauges, and whiskey compass.
 8)
Boston
Title: Re: best airport for private pilots to land/tie-down for Porcfest?
Post by: Boston T. Party on March 21, 2014, 12:34:27 pm
I think the national ratio of pilots is about 1:300, so I expected more here than just 2 or 3.
Any theory on why pilots are so underrepresented in the FSP?

At any rate, I'd be surprised now if I flew out to Porcfest.  After a disheartening experience in another thread,
I no longer believe that I will encounter enough people there with whom I sufficiently resonate.
And I will miss the ones that I do.

Best regards, and good flying!

Boston
Title: Re: best airport for private pilots to land/tie-down for Porcfest?
Post by: Jerry on March 21, 2014, 05:17:51 pm
[color=green
At any rate, I'd be surprised now if I flew out to Porcfest.  After a disheartening experience in another thread,
I no longer believe that I will encounter enough people there with whom I sufficiently resonate.
And I will miss the ones that I do.

Boston[/color]

Boston, please do not assume that the people posting here are representative of Porcs in NH or those who will be attending Porcfest.
One factor is that many have moved on to places like Facebook. 
Another is the folks who actually move here engage in real-life activism and social meetings instead of online activities.
I would wager that "your kind of people" will be in the majority, so please don't change your plans.   :) 
Title: Re: best airport for private pilots to land/tie-down for Porcfest?
Post by: dalebert on March 21, 2014, 11:18:44 pm
Boston, please do not assume that the people posting here are representative of Porcs in NH or those who will be attending Porcfest.

He's talking about me. My writer's group will be sponsoring two panels and helping with Buzz's Big Gay Dance Party. I'm not really going to force-hug him to get my gay cooties on him. That was just a joke. He doesn't have a sense of humor so I feel the need to clarify that. Never mind. He's got me on ignore. Someone tell him I'm not actually going to put my gay cooties on him.

Quote
Another is the folks who actually move here engage in real-life activism and social meetings instead of online activities.

It's true. I've lived here seven years and have engaged in all kinds of activism from protests to politics to volunteer work to media. Probably a reason I post more here is because I hate Facebook and I deleted my account.

Quote
I would wager that "your kind of people" will be in the majority, so please don't change your plans.   :) 

Yeah, just steer clear of the Big Gay Dance Party. They may not all be as thick-skinned as I when you or your buddies that you recently brought to the forum call them satanic queers or occult Masonic overlords for supporting equality of the sexes. Might want to steer clear of Free Keene and Free Talk Live. Oh, and probably any strong, self-respecting women. There may be a few of those wandering about. They're easy to pinpoint. They'll be openly disobeying their men and burning their bras. You'll be fine.
Title: Re: best airport for private pilots to land/tie-down for Porcfest?
Post by: Pat K on March 22, 2014, 07:40:32 pm
I fear MR. Manly, does not want hang with me either Jerry, I of course am crushed.
Title: Re: best airport for private pilots to land/tie-down for Porcfest?
Post by: Boston T. Party on March 25, 2014, 01:51:19 pm
Jerry, thanks for courteous reply and welcome.

I attended and spoke at 2012 Porcfest.  In one aspect I was very surprised at the overall tenor
of the crowd, i.e., the majority unarmed.  Of the ~25% who were armed about 20% of
them seemed trained and tactically tuned.  Rogers is a beautiful campground, but there's no place to press triggers.
Nothing wrong with smoking a joint, but I saw much more of a drug culture than a shooting culture.  Just not quite my scene. 

People and culture are just different out West than back East.
Out West, snotty behavior to man can get one's clock cleaned. 
We don't take shit out here, especially from those considered our social, moral, and masculine inferiors.
People like dalebert and PatK hide behind my adherence to the NAP, and they know it.
(Notice they can't help but migrate over here to a pilot's topic?)
I don't mind disagreement, but I do abhor shabby behavior in public. 
I measure my wealth by what and whom I can afford to ignore and leave alone. 

Our Wyoming Cowboy culture is very strongly libertarian, and quite tolerant, but we have the decency not to
rub odious behavior in each other's faces.  "Gay" people are not hassled, but sissies are ridiculed.
"Cowboy up!" and "Man it the f*ck up!" are mantras out here, and unashamedly so.
We're happy with our women, and they're happy with us. 

In short, I would rather be a Man first and libertarian second, than the reverse.
Over the past weeks I'd not seen much FSP forum alignment with that sentiment. 
If that seems to change in the future, do let me know.

And thanks again for the decent reply. 
Give me a holler if you're ever out this way; we'll go shooting.

Regards,
Boston
Title: Re: best airport for private pilots to land/tie-down for Porcfest?
Post by: dalebert on March 25, 2014, 02:35:49 pm
Out West, snotty behavior to man can get one's clock cleaned.
We don't take shit out here, especially from those considered our social, moral, and masculine inferiors.

So people are more prone to violence over there? I publicly disagreed with you. Is that what you mean by snotty behavior that can trigger violence in the West (Wyoming?)? Can you be specific about how Pat and I are socially inferior? Specifically how are we morally inferior? Specifically how are we... uhm... masculinely inferior? (Per your honest opinion, of course.)

Quote
People like dalebert and PatK hide behind my adherence to the NAP, and they know it.

If you mean that I'm speaking my opinion openly on a public forum presuming that you aren't going to try to hurt me or kill me for it, then you're probably right. Do you feel like discussions are improved when people fear for violent retribution for speaking their opinions openly? If we were having the same conversation in a bar after a few too many drinks and you smashed a bottle and held the jagged edge at my throat, I'd probably apologize (insincerely). Maybe that's because I wouldn't be trying to impress any female onlookers. I guess that makes you more of a man than me. Congratulations.

Quote
(Notice they can't help but migrate over here to a pilot's topic?)

Well, you did reference our discussion and then Jerry responded in a way that I felt needed clarification. I don't think he was familiar with the thread you were referring to when he responded because I think Pat and I are reasonably representative of a lot of the folks at Porcfest. So if that's going a problem for you, then it's just as well that you know. That was my thought.
Title: Re: best airport for private pilots to land/tie-down for Porcfest?
Post by: Pat K on March 25, 2014, 06:53:50 pm
I told ya already manly man, I will be at Porc Fest, I am easy to find, I am a short fat guy dragging a cooler.
Or just ask any long time FSP folk and they can point me out. While. I certainly don't need violence in my life
if you come to Porc Fest looking to " clean clocks "  I volunteer.
Title: Re: best airport for private pilots to land/tie-down for Porcfest?
Post by: MaineShark on March 26, 2014, 07:30:18 pm
In one aspect I was very surprised at the overall tenor
of the crowd, i.e., the majority unarmed.  Of the ~25% who were armed about 20% of them seemed trained and tactically tuned.

The majority are unarmed because the majority are visitors who are not living here in NH.  Unless we opened Rent-A-Gun, there's no way they could reasonably be armed.

But far more than you think, are actually armed.  Some of us actually carry a gun every single day of our lives, so we're quite good at concealed carry.  NH is the most heavily-armed place on the entire planet, so never assume someone's unarmed, just because you don't see a gun.

Out West, snotty behavior to man can get one's clock cleaned.
We don't take shit out here, especially from those considered our social, moral, and masculine inferiors.

That's funny, right there.  We don't see the need to use violence against our "inferiors," because we're adults.

People like dalebert and PatK hide behind my adherence to the NAP, and they know it.

And you hide behind the fact that most of us won't hit children.  What's your point?

(Notice they can't help but migrate over here to a pilot's topic?)

You're the one who brought up the subject, not them.  Try to at least fake behaving like and adult, okay?

In short, I would rather be a Man first and libertarian second, than the reverse.
Over the past weeks I'd not seen much FSP forum alignment with that sentiment.
If that seems to change in the future, do let me know.

That's funny, right there.  Do let us know if you manage to be either, okay?  Because, so far, I've seen no evidence that you're anything other than a boy.
Title: Re: best airport for private pilots to land/tie-down for Porcfest?
Post by: Auspicious Aspect on March 26, 2014, 09:04:35 pm

"Gay" people are not hassled, but sissies are ridiculed.

Regards,
Boston

In that case, a delicate snowflake like you must have it rough.
Title: Re: best airport for private pilots to land/tie-down for Porcfest?
Post by: KBCraig on March 26, 2014, 10:08:39 pm
I'm proud to claim Pat K, Dalebert, and Maine Shark as my real-life, in-NH friends. Dale hasn't been to my house yet, but I hope he will stop by when he's up for Porcfest.

Back to the topic, Whitefield (MWRA) is the closest airport, but check your mountain approach routes. Berlin (which is actually in Milan) has a much flatter approach.

Neither has rentals at the airport, but there are Enterprise offices in Gorham (for Berlin) and Littleton (for Whitefield). Per their motto, they'll pick you up.
Title: Re: best airport for private pilots to land/tie-down for Porcfest?
Post by: greap on March 30, 2014, 03:15:13 pm
The majority are unarmed because the majority are visitors who are not living here in NH.  Unless we opened Rent-A-Gun, there's no way they could reasonably be armed.

Also there is a huge difference between carrying a weapon for protection and carrying one for decoration. Carrying one for protection in NH is mostly pointless (particularly up north), carrying one for decoration is fine but not many peoples thing.
Title: Re: best airport for private pilots to land/tie-down for Porcfest?
Post by: MaineShark on March 30, 2014, 09:27:47 pm
I'm proud to claim Pat K, Dalebert, and Maine Shark as my real-life, in-NH friends. Dale hasn't been to my house yet, but I hope he will stop by when he's up for Porcfest.

Yeah, I think some folks have trouble grasping that this isn't just a bunch of guys playing around online, but is an actual, real-life, in-person movement.

Also there is a huge difference between carrying a weapon for protection and carrying one for decoration. Carrying one for protection in NH is mostly pointless (particularly up north), carrying one for decoration is fine but not many peoples thing.

Indeed.  In NH, we're actually serious about guns; we don't consider them to be fashion accessories.

If I have my Springfield on my hip, it certainly doesn't enhance my appearance.  It's parkerized, except in the places where the finish is worn off.  The grip is permanently stained blue-gray in one spot because it got industrial-grade sealant on it (which happens when you work for a living, and carry all day, every day).  There's lint and dust inside the skeletonized hammer, and various other places where such can collect.  The holster is scratched and scuffed, because that's what happens when you have the same piece of leather on your belt every day of your life for a decade.

It ain't pretty.  It ain't an enhancement of my appearance.  But it works every time I pull the trigger, and saved my life when I did need it for its intended purpose.  It's a tool, not a piece of jewelry.
Title: Re: best airport for private pilots to land/tie-down for Porcfest?
Post by: John Edward Mercier on March 31, 2014, 11:53:51 am
I think Greap's point is that the more rural areas have even far less person-to-person crime than would be reconciled from the low crime rates in NH.


Title: Re: best airport for private pilots to land/tie-down for Porcfest?
Post by: MaineShark on March 31, 2014, 02:26:05 pm
I think Greap's point is that the more rural areas have even far less person-to-person crime than would be reconciled from the low crime rates in NH.

Which is a result of the fact that NH has the least-restrictive gun laws in the entire developed world, and the most firearms per-capita.  If folks stop carrying guns, that low crime rate will go away.
Title: Re: best airport for private pilots to land/tie-down for Porcfest?
Post by: greap on March 31, 2014, 03:08:19 pm
I think Greap's point is that the more rural areas have even far less person-to-person crime than would be reconciled from the low crime rates in NH.

Which is a result of the fact that NH has the least-restrictive gun laws in the entire developed world, and the most firearms per-capita.  If folks stop carrying guns, that low crime rate will go away.

NH is small, rural, wealthy and homogeneous; these factors are all causal with violent crime rates. Weapon ownership rates (and gun laws in general) are weakly correlative with violent crime rates but not causal, most of this is simply explained by states with violent crime issues seeking policy solutions that involve firearms restrictions (which don't work).

Also i know many people who treat their weapons like a piece of jewelry rather then a self-defense tool. There is nothing wrong with that (anymore then wearing $800 earnings) but this is extremely common, how many people carry a weapon because they are genuinely concerned regarding being a victim of violence compared to simply because they can or to show it off?
Title: Re: best airport for private pilots to land/tie-down for Porcfest?
Post by: Auspicious Aspect on March 31, 2014, 03:48:33 pm
NH is small, rural, wealthy and homogeneous; these factors are all causal with violent crime rates. Weapon ownership rates (and gun laws in general) are weakly correlative with violent crime rates but not causal, most of this is simply explained by states with violent crime issues seeking policy solutions that involve firearms restrictions (which don't work).

I don't know where you live, but NH is hardly wealthy, and nowhere near homogeneous.
Title: Re: best airport for private pilots to land/tie-down for Porcfest?
Post by: greap on March 31, 2014, 07:42:33 pm
NH is small, rural, wealthy and homogeneous; these factors are all causal with violent crime rates. Weapon ownership rates (and gun laws in general) are weakly correlative with violent crime rates but not causal, most of this is simply explained by states with violent crime issues seeking policy solutions that involve firearms restrictions (which don't work).

I don't know where you live, but NH is hardly wealthy, and nowhere near homogeneous.

NH has one of the highest median incomes (both personal and household) and the lowest poverty rate in the country (by a fairly large margin, we are less then half the national average). Maine and Vermont are the only states which are more homogeneous.
Title: Re: best airport for private pilots to land/tie-down for Porcfest?
Post by: freedomroad on March 31, 2014, 08:16:09 pm
Quote
I don't know where you live, but NH is hardly wealthy, and nowhere near homogeneous.

NH is very middle class. As for millionaires per capita, NH is #8. http://www.cnbc.com/id/101338309
As for billionaires, there might only be 1 in NH.

NH is 4th lowest for income inequality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_Gini_coefficient#List_of_U.S._states_by_Gini_coefficient_of_income_inequality

NH has the most machine guns per capita. http://nhfreedom.wordpress.com/2013/01/22/machine-guns-by-state-new-hampshire-wins/

Quote
I don't know of anything that says NH has the highest
I love to see some evidence suggesting this!
Title: Re: best airport for private pilots to land/tie-down for Porcfest?
Post by: Auspicious Aspect on March 31, 2014, 10:30:30 pm
NH is small, rural, wealthy and homogeneous; these factors are all causal with violent crime rates. Weapon ownership rates (and gun laws in general) are weakly correlative with violent crime rates but not causal, most of this is simply explained by states with violent crime issues seeking policy solutions that involve firearms restrictions (which don't work).

I don't know where you live, but NH is hardly wealthy, and nowhere near homogeneous.

NH has one of the highest median incomes (both personal and household) and the lowest poverty rate in the country (by a fairly large margin, we are less then half the national average). Maine and Vermont are the only states which are more homogeneous.

Low poverty is not the same as wealth. NH is a working-class/middle-class state; very populist, to use a term. There is little deep poverty, but also little true wealth. And the few wealthy folk tend not to be conspicuous about it.

As far as NH being homogeneous, to the contrary, NH has great ethnic diversity. You must be using another definition.
Title: Re: best airport for private pilots to land/tie-down for Porcfest?
Post by: John Edward Mercier on April 02, 2014, 05:32:36 pm
No. Greap is using the correct definitions.
Title: Re: best airport for private pilots to land/tie-down for Porcfest?
Post by: Auspicious Aspect on April 05, 2014, 01:17:56 pm
No. Greap is using the correct definitions.

So, by your definition, middle-class people are wealthy, and ethnic diversity equates to the state being homogeneous? Hilarious.
Title: Re: best airport for private pilots to land/tie-down for Porcfest?
Post by: dalebert on April 05, 2014, 02:02:54 pm
So, by your definition, middle-class people are wealthy, and ethnic diversity equates to the state being homogeneous? Hilarious.

I don't know the facts and data, but I'm gonna take a stab at what seems like an odd way of thinking here. First off, when you're judging the wealth of a state as opposed to an individual, then median income seems very relevant. More of the population being middle class than in poverty compared to other states seems like a sign of overall wealth of that state. By similar reasoning, you seem to be judging homogeneity via some arbitrary personal standard, e.g. you think it has "great ethnic diversity" while John is using a more objective standard, i.e. in comparison to the other states which was the point in the first place, and he's saying it's 3rd from the bottom.
Title: Re: best airport for private pilots to land/tie-down for Porcfest?
Post by: John Edward Mercier on April 06, 2014, 10:35:09 am
Correct Dale. I think that AA is concerned that this may be seen as a barrier for others seeking to move here.
And AA would be correct in that NH absorbs cultural variations at a pretty strong rate.
Title: Re: best airport for private pilots to land/tie-down for Porcfest?
Post by: Auspicious Aspect on April 07, 2014, 11:41:29 am
So, by your definition, middle-class people are wealthy, and ethnic diversity equates to the state being homogeneous? Hilarious.

I don't know the facts and data, but I'm gonna take a stab at what seems like an odd way of thinking here. First off, when you're judging the wealth of a state as opposed to an individual, then median income seems very relevant. More of the population being middle class than in poverty compared to other states seems like a sign of overall wealth of that state. By similar reasoning, you seem to be judging homogeneity via some arbitrary personal standard, e.g. you think it has "great ethnic diversity" while John is using a more objective standard, i.e. in comparison to the other states which was the point in the first place, and he's saying it's 3rd from the bottom.


Median income is a terrible way to judge overall wealth if you want to be accurate, since you have no idea of the outer edges that are being represented. If you want to know about the overall wealth of an area, you need to look at a typical resident, not someone whose income is extraordinarily high or low. Your relevant measure would be the mode, not the mean. In NH's case, the most typical incomes cluster in areas below that of "wealthy."

He didn't state any standards or give a cite at all, he simply made an assertion. And it's an assertion rooted in incomplete or false data, or bias. I have lived in states other than which he mentioned, which have much less diversity than NH. Iowa, for instance. This is an area of professional interest to me, not just a forum exercise; I have trained and worked as a geographer/cartographer, and have conducted field studies on the makeup of populations.
Title: Re: best airport for private pilots to land/tie-down for Porcfest?
Post by: Planethosting on April 07, 2014, 04:48:49 pm
I wanna go on a plane ride, I will trade car rides, and/or web services...
Title: Re: best airport for private pilots to land/tie-down for Porcfest?
Post by: greap on April 16, 2014, 07:30:43 pm
Median income is a terrible way to judge overall wealth if you want to be accurate, since you have no idea of the outer edges that are being represented.

Outliers add bias to data, using median for population studies is how you eliminate the outlier problem. If you want to understand the bounds then looking at poverty rates and millionaire rates is apropriate.

If you want to know about the overall wealth of an area, you need to look at a typical resident, not someone whose income is extraordinarily high or low.

You know this contradicts your previous sentence right? You can't say that outliers are important and then dismiss them a sentence later.

Your relevant measure would be the mode, not the mean.

No it would be median, what everyone is discussing. I'm not sure where you got the absurd notion that anything other then median is appropriate for population studies, economics and sociology use median almost exclusively.

In NH's case, the most typical incomes cluster in areas below that of "wealthy."

Wealthy in terms of what? NH has far fewer low-income individuals then all other states and a higher proportion of high-income individuals then most other states, that makes it a wealthy state.

He didn't state any standards or give a cite at all, he simply made an assertion. And it's an assertion rooted in incomplete or false data, or bias. I have lived in states other than which he mentioned, which have much less diversity than NH. Iowa, for instance. This is an area of professional interest to me, not just a forum exercise; I have trained and worked as a geographer/cartographer, and have conducted field studies on the makeup of populations.

NH is mostly white and most of the white population share the same ethnicity. What is it that you think homogeneity means?