Free State Project Forum

New Hampshire -- The "Live Free or Die" State => NH Information and News => Topic started by: RidleyReport on December 14, 2011, 12:24:53 pm

Title: NH lawmakers want Mass. border warning signs
Post by: RidleyReport on December 14, 2011, 12:24:53 pm
In a sense, the most dangerous line in New Hampshire is the one that separates it from its police state neighbor.  While demanding that no tax dollars be used, House Bill 1412 aims to warn motorists of the threat's location with signs that read "Warning: Massachusetts Border 500 Feet."  

Supporters of the bill say motorists are at risk of investigation, fines or arrest for many harmless acts or possessions...once they cross into the troubled province.  These include ammunition possession, fireworks possession and possession of NH merchandise for which MA sales tax is not paid:

http://spectator.org/archives/2010/07/29/swift-tax-dodgers  

The bill currently has six sponsors.  

Click here for more details and the full text of the bill:
http://www.borderwarning.com/

Ridley Report text bulletins like this one....are generally collected from New Hampshire's raw sources or "little press."  Few of them are repeats of the state's bigger media.  In that sense, nearly every RR bulletin is a "scoop."  Stay tuned!
Title: Mordor Ahead
Post by: rossby on December 14, 2011, 12:31:39 pm
Sounds funny.

But in all serious, it's kinda a big deal where having a firearm in your vehicle can go, in the states' perspectives, from being no big deal to being the END OF THE WORLD. Especially around Nashua it's fairly easy to cross into Mass.

'Course, marijuana works the opposite way...
Title: Re: NH lawmakers want Mass. border warning signs
Post by: Jerry on December 14, 2011, 12:50:00 pm
Excellent idea!
On my first visit to New Hampshire, while driving down the seacoast, I spotted a sign for Bob's Gunshop and stopped to check it out.   
The owner was just unlocking the door when I walked up and asked "what kind of paperwork is needed to buy a firearm here in New Hampshire?
He laughed and said "You're in Massachusetts by 500 yards.
Realizing the non-resident NH pistol license in my pocket was worthless here, I responded "Whoops!  Bye."

Please post the chipin here so I can donate to the project.
Title: Re: NH lawmakers want Mass. border warning signs
Post by: jcoffey on December 14, 2011, 01:10:21 pm
if you or anyone you know has a story about accidentally ending up in mass because they traveled down a road not marked.  Please forward your stories to me and support the bill when it has a public hearing.  I would also like to know the road traveled.  If anyone has pictures of roadways that would be helpful as well.

The bill does sound "funny" and "cute" at first glance, I agree...I felt the same way at first.  Until I realized that in some cases it can be very serious life altering in fact.  Just imagine being pulled over for not having on your seat belt and not realizing you have crossed into Mass, while your trusty 1911 sits on the passenger seat next too you, and you don't have a mass pistol permit.  You have just become a felon.

contact me at:  jenn@jenncoffey.com
Title: Re: NH lawmakers want Mass. border warning signs
Post by: tom ploszaj on December 14, 2011, 02:20:39 pm
My thoughts only.  There may be reasons I am not aware of to signal out the Mass. border.  Crossing the border of any state there is a risk when leaving leaving NH.  I could support the idea for HB 1412 more if it was more fiscally clear, less inflammatory and generic, pertaining to all border crossings for example:
280:84   Caution: NH State border 500 feet
280:86 No public money shall be used to pay for the design, construction, and installation of any such signage or markers
Title: Re: NH lawmakers want Mass. border warning signs
Post by: jcoffey on December 14, 2011, 02:26:47 pm
thank you for the feedback, Mass is where I have heard the most reported problems, if it works, it very well could be expanded to Maine and Vt.  The language used to state that this is done by donation and not public funds is the same language we use to achieve other such activities such as the purple heart signs.  legally this language has worked very well in the past so no need to reinvent the wheel.
Title: Re: NH lawmakers want Mass. border warning signs
Post by: tom ploszaj on December 14, 2011, 03:09:49 pm
Thanks for the clarification.  I can give greater support for the bill if no tax moneys went towards new signage
Title: Re: NH lawmakers want Mass. border warning signs
Post by: jcoffey on December 14, 2011, 03:40:50 pm
I figure it is a win win
people are forewarned that they are going to loose some liberties down the road
companies get advertising by sponsoring the signs
mass gets less revenue from tickets and arrests of people who innocently ventured onto their land
 ;D
Title: Re: NH lawmakers want Mass. border warning signs
Post by: John Edward Mercier on December 14, 2011, 10:18:40 pm
I figure it is a win win
people are forewarned that they are going to loose some liberties down the road
companies get advertising by sponsoring the signs
mass gets less revenue from tickets and arrests of people who innocently ventured onto their land
 ;D
There currently aren't border signs? Or are they just missing in some locations?

Title: Re: NH lawmakers want Mass. border warning signs
Post by: davidesanders on December 15, 2011, 07:40:13 am
You know, this should probably work the other direction as well...

Last I heard, Vermont has no state-wide anti-nudity statute.  It might do well to have some signs at the Vermont border like the ones at some nude beaches, to wit:

              "You are now leaving the nude state area, please dress!"

Personally, I'm in favor of getting rid of the NH law regarding nudity.  It's not like every Vermonter is nude all the time... most aren't nude most of the time, and certainly not in public.
Like the auto insurance thing in NH, there is no law requiring it, but something like 80% if drivers have it.  Same with the seat belt law.

Just a thought, bearing on the free state idea.

David E. Sanders
Title: Re: NH lawmakers want Mass. border warning signs
Post by: jcoffey on December 15, 2011, 11:49:14 am
I figure it is a win win
people are forewarned that they are going to loose some liberties down the road
companies get advertising by sponsoring the signs
mass gets less revenue from tickets and arrests of people who innocently ventured onto their land
 ;D
There currently aren't border signs? Or are they just missing in some locations?



They are missing in locations, and people are getting pulled over not realizing they left nh.  The reason for using the language we pick is to grab the drivers attention.  People pay more attention when something says warning verses welcome
Title: Re: NH lawmakers want Mass. border warning signs
Post by: RidleyReport on December 15, 2011, 01:50:22 pm
I think the sign should be a raving metal wingnut ! ! ! !

That will get it more attention and maybe national news coverage.
Title: Re: NH lawmakers want Mass. border warning signs
Post by: Bazil on December 15, 2011, 04:11:19 pm
The road I live on leads to MA and there in no sign in either direction.  The only signal you've crossed state lines in the texture of the road changes.  Places like that need signs.

I don't think the signs need to say "Warning" but a notice would be good especially if you go to and on ramp that has no more exits in NH (kind of like on ramps to tolls).  On most small roads you can see the "Welcome to mAssachusetts" sign and just do a U-turn.  You can't do that on a highway.
Title: Re: NH lawmakers want Mass. border warning signs
Post by: John Edward Mercier on December 15, 2011, 09:47:39 pm
It may be worthwhile for NH DOT to expend some monies over time for signage.
Maybe even expend some of the Meals & Rental taxation that goes into DREDs Travel & Tourism budget to thank visitors?



Title: Re: NH lawmakers want Mass. border warning signs
Post by: maxxoccupancy on December 15, 2011, 11:01:28 pm
My property straddles the border with Mass, and pretty much all of the locals here in Seabrook know where the line is.  I love having a Town Hall with a roundabout that lets you avoid getting any Mass soil on your tires by going around the rotary.

I'm not sure that a lot would need to be spent on signage.  I would rather replace a few 4-way stops on the border with mini-roundabouts, allowing for a much easier U-turn to get back into the Granite State.  Mini-roundabouts are not too expensive.
Title: Re: NH lawmakers want Mass. border warning signs
Post by: slothman on December 16, 2011, 01:36:48 am
I would rather replace a few 4-way stops on the border with mini-roundabouts, allowing for a much easier U-turn to get back into the Granite State.  Mini-roundabouts are not too expensive.

How does a mini-roundabout differ from a regular roundabout?
And how come there aren't more roundabouts in the world/America?
Title: Re: NH lawmakers want Mass. border warning signs
Post by: maxxoccupancy on December 20, 2011, 10:37:58 pm
Not to get too far off topic, a mini roundabout is tiny, and often has no more than a small, painted circle in the middle.  The nifty thing about a mini roundabout is that, if there are no cars coming, you can just slow down and drive straight through.  It only acts as a small roundabout if someone else pulls up.  You find them all over Europe and UK countries.

For the purposes of this thread, it would be handy to be able to pull a U-turn right in the intersection before ending up in Mass.  I can think of a few locations that would be great for this purpose.

Proposed sign:
Last opportunity to U-turn before Mass. border