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FSP Community => Porcupine Festival => Topic started by: AgoristTeen2 on May 05, 2011, 11:23:01 pm

Title: Thinking about going but...
Post by: AgoristTeen2 on May 05, 2011, 11:23:01 pm
Hi everyone I am a 17 year old Agorist in SW Michigan, and I really want to go but...my grandma who is my legal guardian is reluctant to let me go and as far as I know, according to Michigan State law, if she says no, then I can't go without being considered a "runaway" Now is there anything anyone can think of that might help me convince her? Note she is a statist, but...she doesn't mind my libertarian anarchism...she thinks I'm wrong, yeah but she respects my right to it. Her reasons to not let me go are safety concerns as in people stealing from me, being the least of her worries. Now I've tried to convince her that there won't be a hell of alot of drug usage and sex, even though I know there might be since I know she definitely wouldn't let me go otherwise. Her other main concern is that I would end up having to go alone. While I am willing to just go off with or without her permission, I am incredibly reluctant to do so, since when I get back there'll be hell to pay, and I would rather not have to deal with that. I've tried the "I'm 17 grandma in a year I'll be moving out on my own and a couple months after that I'll be even farther away at Dartmouth" approach, along with the "I'll bring my two guns so that if some tries to commit armed robbery I can protect myself" approach. So are there any recommendation on what I can do/say to convince her to let me go? Also just exactly how safe is it actually? By "safe" I mean in terms of respect for private property and personal space? E.g. I won't leave my tent and return to find people in it smoking pot and having sex in my tent. Of course that was an extreme example and I don't think something that extreme would happen but...my point remains.

*EDIT: Oh one thing I forgot to add...I'm trying to convince a friend of mine to come along, but I'm not sure if he can or will come...and I always plan for the worst, which would be him not coming along. That's why I said I'd be going alone...if something happens and he ends up being able and being willing to come I'll change this post accordingly.
Title: Re: Thinking about going but...
Post by: rossby on May 05, 2011, 11:34:58 pm
Now I've tried to convince her that there won't be a hell of alot of drug usage and sex, even though I know there might be since I know she definitely wouldn't let me go otherwise.

Trying to defraud your grandmother? >:D

By "safe" I mean in terms of respect for private property and personal space? E.g. I won't leave my tent and return to find people in it smoking pot and having sex in my tent. Of course that was an extreme example and I don't think something that extreme would happen but...my point remains.

... I once heard someone "lost" a folding chair. They claimed it was "stolen". But if so, I doubt intentionally.

Last year, I lost my wallet at PorcFest. Just fell out of my pocket. Contained a few hundred dollars in cash, all my credit cards, and various ID cards, etc. Someone--who I'd never met before--found it and returned it to me. Everything was in it.

People are very respectful generally. They're not respectful when they don't realize they're doing something disrespectful. Like, every once in a while someone will get peeved that other people are walking through his camp site. Or that some music is too loud. Things like that.
Title: Re: Thinking about going but...
Post by: AgoristTeen2 on May 05, 2011, 11:59:16 pm


Trying to defraud your grandmother? >:D

Yes very much so  >:D After all, I have to to be able to skip school as my show of civil disobedience, and to have even a snow flake's chance in hell of going to PF 2011.

... I once heard someone "lost" a folding chair. They claimed it was "stolen". But if so, I doubt intentionally.

Last year, I lost my wallet at PorcFest. Just fell out of my pocket. Contained a few hundred dollars in cash, all my credit cards, and various ID cards, etc. Someone--who I'd never met before--found it and returned it to me. Everything was in it.

People are very respectful generally. They're not respectful when they don't realize they're doing something disrespectful. Like, every once in a while someone will get peeved that other people are walking through his camp site. Or that some music is too loud. Things like that.

Okay cool. Thanks for the info.
Title: Re: Thinking about going but...
Post by: maxxoccupancy on May 06, 2011, 12:23:51 am
Anything I can do to help, just let me know.
Title: Re: Thinking about going but...
Post by: AgoristTeen2 on May 06, 2011, 12:35:38 am
Anything I can do to help, just let me know.

Thank you. For now what I really need is advice on convincing her to let me go, and how to partially regain some of the cost...so far all I've come up with for regaining the cost which hopefully I'll be able to lower by joining with at least one friend, is to be a part of the PorcFest Labor Cooperative. Any other suggestions/advice on that or anything for a 17 year old hoping to go to PF 2011 would be very much appreciated. Also anecdotes about your time at PorcFests in the past that might be helpful toward convincing my grandma would be appreciated, both because it help convince her, and it gives me a general idea about what PorcFest will be like. If I can think of anything else I might need help with I'll let you know. Thanks again for offering to help. I really appreciate it.
Title: Re: Thinking about going but...
Post by: ny2nh on May 06, 2011, 07:46:46 am
My question was going to be how does a 17 year old fund a trip of this magnitude? It's nearly 1000 miles each way. Do you have a reliable vehicle that you plan to drive? What happens if your vehicle breaks down along the way? Do you have savings or a credit card to pay for repairs?

Someone in another post estimated that PF could was going to cost them I think $800 between travel, camping, food.  Even with a friend, you will still have expenses and still need to eat. Not sure how the Labor Cooperative will work - if it covers camping space or food or just the registration fees or what.

Sorry to be the cynic.....
Title: Re: Thinking about going but...
Post by: AgoristTeen2 on May 06, 2011, 07:59:11 am
My question was going to be how does a 17 year old fund a trip of this magnitude? It's nearly 1000 miles each way. Do you have a reliable vehicle that you plan to drive? What happens if your vehicle breaks down along the way? Do you have savings or a credit card to pay for repairs?

Someone in another post estimated that PF could was going to cost them I think $800 between travel, camping, food.  Even with a friend, you will still have expenses and still need to eat. Not sure how the Labor Cooperative will work - if it covers camping space or food or just the registration fees or what.

Sorry to be the cynic.....


Don't worry about apologizing for being cynical...I tend to be rather cynical myself....honestly I am not optimistic about my chances of being able to go. I'm still going to try. And as for the cost...I do have money saved up and a reliable vehicle available.
Title: Re: Thinking about going but...
Post by: CurtHowland on May 06, 2011, 08:43:40 am
And as for the cost...I do have money saved up and a reliable vehicle available.

Seriously, this is not like crossing the Sahara alone. The area from where you are to NH has been settled for a few centuries, and the roads are well patrolled. Don't go looking for trouble, and trouble will not find you.

Having been to PorcFest, I saw no drugs or sex at all. I also was not looking for them, so not finding them is no surprise. As in most of life, you'll find what you're looking for and/or what you expect to find. Surprises are just that.

Get a tune-up, oil and transmission service before you leave.

Make sure you have drinking water and something warm in the car, a cell phone and a credit card. That will get you through anything that might reasonably happen.
Title: Re: Thinking about going but...
Post by: Liberty603 on May 06, 2011, 09:38:58 am
I have been to a couple of Porcfests. Very safe place. I can't think of a group that is more respectful of private property and personal space. I hope you are able to come.

I'd highly encourage you to check out all of the "Convoy to Porcfest" groups. Maybe there is someone from your area (or driving through your area) who would 1) be able to take you along and 2) be able to assuage some of your grandma's concerns by assuring her that you'll be with someone adult, responsible, etc...

Yes, it sounds like she is being overprotective but she is trying to do her job and keep your best interests in mind... try to humor her   :)
Title: Re: Thinking about going but...
Post by: rossby on May 06, 2011, 02:48:48 pm


Trying to defraud your grandmother? >:D

Yes very much so  >:D

Not to be a downer, but you may want to reflect on whether that's The Right Thing to DoSM. If you had a child you were responsible for and they lied to you about traveling 1,000 miles away for a festival, how would you feel about that? Okay? Well, pretend you're your grandmother. ;) Honesty is usually the best policy. If you feel you need to have permission but must be dishonest to get it, you're probably doing something... not quite right.

Ahem. But all that said, it ain't Woodstock. I don't recall seeing anything illicit last year.
Title: Re: Thinking about going but...
Post by: AgoristTeen2 on May 06, 2011, 03:29:55 pm
And as for the cost...I do have money saved up and a reliable vehicle available.

Seriously, this is not like crossing the Sahara alone. The area from where you are to NH has been settled for a few centuries, and the roads are well patrolled. Don't go looking for trouble, and trouble will not find you.

Having been to PorcFest, I saw no drugs or sex at all. I also was not looking for them, so not finding them is no surprise. As in most of life, you'll find what you're looking for and/or what you expect to find. Surprises are just that.

Get a tune-up, oil and transmission service before you leave.

Make sure you have drinking water and something warm in the car, a cell phone and a credit card. That will get you through anything that might reasonably happen.

I can definitely see where you're coming from with this but, I'm the type of person that always expects and prepares for the worst while hoping for the best. Besides I have horrible luck, seriously I could have a guy standing next to me with a lightning rod in the middle of a thunderstorm, and I would probably be the one struck by lightning.  :o But yeah thanks for the advice on getting a tune-up, oil and transmission service, and brining drinking water, and something warm, a cell phone and credit card (though for me it'll be a debit card)


I have been to a couple of Porcfests. Very safe place. I can't think of a group that is more respectful of private property and personal space. I hope you are able to come.

I'd highly encourage you to check out all of the "Convoy to Porcfest" groups. Maybe there is someone from your area (or driving through your area) who would 1) be able to take you along and 2) be able to assuage some of your grandma's concerns by assuring her that you'll be with someone adult, responsible, etc...

Yes, it sounds like she is being overprotective but she is trying to do her job and keep your best interests in mind... try to humor her   :)


Okay will do.



Trying to defraud your grandmother? >:D

Yes very much so  >:D

Not to be a downer, but you may want to reflect on whether that's The Right Thing to DoSM. If you had a child you were responsible for and they lied to you about traveling 1,000 miles away for a festival, how would you feel about that? Okay? Well, pretend you're your grandmother. ;) Honesty is usually the best policy. If you feel you need to have permission but must be dishonest to get it, you're probably doing something... not quite right.

Ahem. But all that said, it ain't Woodstock. I don't recall seeing anything illicit last year.

True I can definitely see your point. However she knows she can trust me to not do drugs, since while I have no problem with other people using them with a few exceptions, I have no interest in doing something that stupid and pointless myself. Plus I'm almost (almost being defined as being 11 months away)  18, and thus outside of her legal control... so she shouldn't have a problem with it. However...she would. While I love my grandma a lot, she does have several major faults...one of them being that she "says" she trusts me but when it comes time to show she trusts me, she acts like I'm either 2 years old, or some kind of sociopathic criminal....I can understand her desire to treat me like I'm 2 years old, and shield me from the world, since my dad (her oldest son) died when I was a little kid, at the age of 33. However while I can understand that desire to smother and coddle me, I don't think she should...but she does. Which is another of her faults. My point is that while I really dislike the idea of lying to her, I am willing to do so if she is being overprotective. Besides the point is moot since as you said you don't recall seeing anything illicit. Still thanks for the advice.
Title: Re: Thinking about going but...
Post by: Russell Kanning on May 06, 2011, 03:45:03 pm
Since you live with your grandma .... I would recommend doing what she thinks is right.

On safety .... the most dangerous thing will be the driving .... accidents happen .... and there are highway robbers everywhere.
Title: Re: Thinking about going but...
Post by: Alex Libman on May 07, 2011, 04:26:48 am
Since you live with your grandma .... I would recommend doing what she thinks is right.

Seconded.

Also, the Free State Project is a decentralized movement based around ideas, not around any centralized organizations, gatherings, cliques, etc.  Only a small fraction goes to those events, and that fraction will likely shrink as the "project" grows.  Libertarians all coming together and socializing IRL almost seems like a contradiction...  You don't need to be at PorcFest or anywhere else to be a top-notch free stater.

And you most certainly don't get a lot of brownie points for getting involved a year sooner - this is a life-long marathon, not a 100-meter dash.
Title: Re: Thinking about going but...
Post by: Ward Griffiths on May 07, 2011, 01:06:56 pm
When I was 17 I was still far from Agorist in my evolution.  Actually, I was pretty straight-ticket Republican.  Anybody that young that much ahead of where I was I like to encourage.

At that age I also lived with my grandmother.  In New Hampshire.  I miss her, she died before I turned 19.

Aside from other caveats, I must warn you that there are some places where it is extremely unsafe to be 17 and armed between Michigan and New Hampshire.  The hazard is from representatives of various state and local governments.
Title: Re: Thinking about going but...
Post by: Dionysus on May 07, 2011, 06:30:37 pm
I think the safe and sane approach might be your best bet. Try to talk grandma into coming with you. Get grandma a ticket so she can come and check everything out and get her a room at the hotel so she won't be in your hair 24/7. If that doesn't work, just wait until next year to attend. 
Title: Re: Thinking about going but...
Post by: Dreepa on May 09, 2011, 02:12:12 pm
I think the safe and sane approach might be your best bet. Try to talk grandma into coming with you. Get grandma a ticket so she can come and check everything out and get her a room at the hotel so she won't be in your hair 24/7. If that doesn't work, just wait until next year to attend. 

I bet we could get Grandma a free ticket.
Title: Re: Thinking about going but...
Post by: Dionysus on May 09, 2011, 02:45:35 pm
lol... I bet we could too...
Title: Re: Thinking about going but...
Post by: mauiguy on May 09, 2011, 04:06:41 pm
I'll donate!  ;D
Title: Re: Thinking about going but...
Post by: stduncan on May 10, 2011, 05:33:26 pm
show her pictures from previous years.  they make it out to be pretty harmless, which i think is probably an accurate reflection.  and i'll help mention again the convoy.  if you get hooked up with a group of people, its much easier to bear costs spread amongst many.
Title: Re: Thinking about going but...
Post by: Sovereign Curtis on May 12, 2011, 02:54:23 pm
http://porcfest.com
Title: Re: Thinking about going but...
Post by: AgoristTeen2 on May 14, 2011, 01:24:47 am
Okay thank you all for the suggestions but I do have one thing to say in response to the guy who suggested getting my grandmother a ticket...she would definitely not go if you guys got her one though that's mostly because she can't. She can barely travel 100 miles, so from where we live to PorcFest would probably kill her...But anyway thanks for all the suggestions and in the event I am able to come to PorcFest it will be with my grandma's permission.
Title: Re: Thinking about going but...
Post by: Sovereign Curtis on May 14, 2011, 11:16:56 am
Okay thank you all for the suggestions but I do have one thing to say in response to the guy who suggested getting my grandmother a ticket...she would definitely not go if you guys got her one though that's mostly because she can't. She can barely travel 100 miles, so from where we live to PorcFest would probably kill her...But anyway thanks for all the suggestions and in the event I am able to come to PorcFest it will be with my grandma's permission.

Does your grandmother want you to find a nice young lady (or man)?
Would it not make sense to her that you'd want to find a nice young lady (or man) who shared your world view?
Then sell this as a social retreat for people who think like you. This is your opportunity to find a nice young lady (or man). The genes must go on.
Title: Re: Thinking about going but...
Post by: AgoristTeen2 on May 14, 2011, 11:24:24 am

Does your grandmother want you to find a nice young lady (or man)?
Would it not make sense to her that you'd want to find a nice young lady (or man) who shared your world view?
Then sell this as a social retreat for people who think like you. This is your opportunity to find a nice young lady (or man). The genes must go on.

Thanks for that bit of advice!    :D

Oh and for the record it'd be "a nice young lady"
Title: Re: Thinking about going but...
Post by: Dionysus on May 14, 2011, 03:06:42 pm
If the trip to PF would kill your grandma... I wonder what your sneaking off to PF might do to her? How would you feel if your juvenile antics upset your grandma to the point where she had a stroke or heart attack? Would a weekend camping trip still seem worth it to you? If you are still a child, I think you will do what you want to do, but, if in fact, you are a man, I think you will act in a responsible manner. The choice is yours to make.
Title: Re: Thinking about going but...
Post by: rossby on May 14, 2011, 03:27:39 pm
show her pictures from previous years.  they make it out to be pretty harmless

If you did that, you could point out the several state representatives that are present. But... identifying them in photos may be difficult.
Title: Re: Thinking about going but...
Post by: AgoristTeen2 on May 14, 2011, 10:10:55 pm
If the trip to PF would kill your grandma... I wonder what your sneaking off to PF might do to her? How would you feel if your juvenile antics upset your grandma to the point where she had a stroke or heart attack? Would a weekend camping trip still seem worth it to you? If you are still a child, I think you will do what you want to do, but, if in fact, you are a man, I think you will act in a responsible manner. The choice is yours to make.

I realize that, which is why I do believe I said I decided to not sneak off to PorcFest.
Title: Re: Thinking about going but...
Post by: AgoristTeen2 on May 15, 2011, 04:39:55 pm
Okay so far...she is being a stubborn as a mule that I won't go...   :P

I'm trying hard to convince her. As I see it the only option I have left is if I can convince my uncle, who is definitely pro-liberty in most cases, to come. The fact that it's family-friendly will definitely help. I'll update with whether or not I'll be able t go....sometimes I swear that if she thought she could have gotten away with it, she would have put me in a plastic bubble...like in that 2001 movie "Bubble Boy" Oh well. I just have to keep trying.
Title: Re: Thinking about going but...
Post by: Sovereign Curtis on May 16, 2011, 07:52:31 am
Twice as many under 18s have registered this year, compared to last.
Its definitely family friendly.
Title: Re: Thinking about going but...
Post by: dalebert on May 16, 2011, 10:25:32 am
... a nice young lady (or man)... a nice young lady (or man)... a nice young lady (or man).

LOL @ Curis being PC
Title: Re: Thinking about going but...
Post by: AgoristTeen2 on May 16, 2011, 03:58:25 pm
... a nice young lady (or man)... a nice young lady (or man)... a nice young lady (or man).

LOL @ Curis being PC

I thought that was pretty funny too. And by you're statement I take it that's at least somewhat rare for him to be PC? Oh not sure why but that just reminded me...dalebert, you're the author of that comic strip "Anarchy in Your Head" right? I just wanted to say great job on that....I and a friend especially enjoyed the part with the Anarchy boogeyman and the "God" in your comic strip...where it at one point it looks like a bo&%$ and two b#$%$
Title: Re: Thinking about going but...
Post by: Sovereign Curtis on May 19, 2011, 07:08:53 am
... a nice young lady (or man)... a nice young lady (or man)... a nice young lady (or man).

LOL @ Curtis being PC

I thought that was pretty funny too. And by you're statement I take it that's at least somewhat rare for him to be PC?

Somewhat. In this case your sn gave no clue to your sex, and even if it had I realized that wouldn't be enough to guess your sexual orientation.
Title: Re: Thinking about going but...
Post by: AgoristTeen2 on May 19, 2011, 08:52:21 am

Somewhat. In this case your sn gave no clue to your sex, and even if it had I realized that wouldn't be enough to guess your sexual orientation.

That is true, so for the record I'm a heterosexual guy.
Title: Re: Thinking about going but...
Post by: Sovereign Curtis on May 19, 2011, 04:40:13 pm

Somewhat. In this case your sn gave no clue to your sex, and even if it had I realized that wouldn't be enough to guess your sexual orientation.

That is true, so for the record I'm a heterosexual guy.

Welcome to the club, we meet on Sundays, there is pie.
Title: Re: Thinking about going but...
Post by: AgoristTeen2 on May 19, 2011, 05:00:03 pm
Oh, my heart is bursting with joy....mostly because of the pie.
Title: Re: Thinking about going but...
Post by: CurtHowland on May 20, 2011, 08:20:14 pm
I haven't seen notice of the meetings before...
Title: Re: Thinking about going but...
Post by: mauiguy on May 20, 2011, 09:59:25 pm
Did someone say pie?