Free State Project Forum

FSP -- General Discussion => Prospective Participants => Topic started by: Kataqu on February 19, 2010, 05:16:26 am

Title: Religious question...
Post by: Kataqu on February 19, 2010, 05:16:26 am
I'm a prospective participant, and I've spent a while studying up on the FSP and what the participants are doing in NH. I'm really, really considering a move (within three years), and I kind of wonder if I'll find anyone with beliefs similar to my own. Are there many voluntaryist Christians there? Or any at all? It probably won't affect my decision to move, but it'd be nice to know in advance.
Title: Re: Religious question...
Post by: Dreepa on February 19, 2010, 11:45:19 am
welcome.

I know that there are many libertarian Christians, some 'conservative' Christians.
I do know a few Voluntaryist Quakers.

(part of me doesn't know because I don't ask them....and they aren't 'pushing it'----- all of which I see as a good sign)
Title: Re: Religious question...
Post by: John Edward Mercier on February 19, 2010, 12:18:46 pm
Welcome.
'Judge not lest thee be judged' is overlooked by some, but we do exist.

Title: Re: Religious question...
Post by: dalebert on February 19, 2010, 01:05:17 pm
Russell Kanning is a famous (or infamous?) early mover who I'm pretty confident fits that description. There are at least four people and possibly more in Keene who I believe fit that description. As Dreepa said, they tend to not be pushy about it. I think you will find plenty of people who will find your POV refreshing and will welcome you with open arms even if they do not strictly fit that description themselves.
Title: Re: Religious question...
Post by: Kataqu on February 20, 2010, 04:23:51 pm
Excellent. ^_^

I'm very glad about the non-pushiness part. It amazes me how pushy (nay, oppressive) the people in my area are regarding religion. I have a friend who's received death threats because he didn't believe with the majority. I've even been bullied in my own faith community, for thinking outside the box, so I hold a deep respect for anyone who can believe something without forcing others to believe it, too.

Thanks for the info, guys!  :)
Title: Re: Religious question...
Post by: MaineShark on February 21, 2010, 03:18:33 pm
I think you'll find the "voluntaryist" part more important to Porcupines than the "Christian" part.  After all, what you believe for yourself is your own business; if you're going to try and force your beliefs on others at gunpoint (or, explicitly not do that, since you're a voluntaryist), that's where others need to concern themselves.

Joe
Title: Re: Religious question...
Post by: Kataqu on February 21, 2010, 09:43:46 pm
I think you'll find the "voluntaryist" part more important to Porcupines than the "Christian" part.  After all, what you believe for yourself is your own business; if you're going to try and force your beliefs on others at gunpoint (or, explicitly not do that, since you're a voluntaryist), that's where others need to concern themselves.

Joe


My question was primarily out of curiosity. Acceptance is part of what I'm hoping for among the Porcupine crowd, and I'm certainly not going to force anything on anyone, much less at gunpoint. That would run rather counter to the furtherance of freedom.
Title: Re: Religious question...
Post by: MaineShark on February 21, 2010, 10:42:24 pm
I think you'll find the "voluntaryist" part more important to Porcupines than the "Christian" part.  After all, what you believe for yourself is your own business; if you're going to try and force your beliefs on others at gunpoint (or, explicitly not do that, since you're a voluntaryist), that's where others need to concern themselves.
My question was primarily out of curiosity. Acceptance is part of what I'm hoping for among the Porcupine crowd, and I'm certainly not going to force anything on anyone, much less at gunpoint. That would run rather counter to the furtherance of freedom.

Hence, why there shouldn't be a problem.  "I'm certainly not going to force anything on anyone, much less at gunpoint" eliminates 99.9% of possible strife.  The other 0.1% is pretty easy to deal with...

Joe
Title: Re: Religious question...
Post by: sj on March 30, 2010, 11:20:58 pm
Welcome. I'm a Christian, not a voluntaryist.

Have you signed the Statement of Intent yet?
Title: Re: Religious question...
Post by: creaganlios on April 07, 2010, 07:00:45 pm
we welcome you to Keene, where my partner and I will welcome you, without impsing any doctrine, to St. James Episcopal Church.
Title: Re: Religious question...
Post by: Moving_on_up on May 01, 2010, 10:34:40 pm
Any nation that doesn't serve the Lord or God is doomed to failure before it starts.  From my understanding, the US was founded by devote zealous Christians.  The Founding Fathers were devoted to God.  I believe that is why God blessed this nation and it truly has been the greatest country for a very long time.   Let's try to emulate that.
Title: Re: Religious question...
Post by: Polemic on May 02, 2010, 12:51:23 am
Any nation that doesn't serve the Lord or God is doomed to failure before it starts.  From my understanding, the US was founded by devote zealous Christians.  The Founding Fathers were devoted to God.  I believe that is why God blessed this nation and it truly has been the greatest country for a very long time.   Let's try to emulate that.

Which founders are you talking about specifically? Jefferson, Adams, Franklin, and more were either gnostic or atheist. Jefferson, who penned the famous preamble referring to a creator admitted in his correspondence that it was a reference to a non-anthropomorphic natural rights argument and appealed to the public concept of 'God' for rhetorical effect.

There is no doubt that the colonies, at the time, were predominately christian, but to say the founding fathers were devoted to God is factually incorrect.
Also, it's ridiculous to describe the US as a christian nation given the explicit separation of church and state, regardless of the clause's subsequent erosion by the courts.

It is impossible to have a free nation based on the ideals of any one system of religious morality. It's better for you to be a christian in a free secular nation than to create a nation wherein you force all others to (disingenuously) adhere to your world view, or worse yet, where some other sect tries to force you to adhere to theirs.
Title: Re: Religious question...
Post by: rossby on May 02, 2010, 01:08:33 am
Any nation that doesn't serve the Lord or God is doomed to failure before it starts.

That would explain why no "nation" lasts terribly long...
Title: Re: Religious question...
Post by: creaganlios on May 02, 2010, 07:44:26 am
Any nation that doesn't serve the Lord or God is doomed to failure before it starts. 

Have you considered running for office in Iran?
Title: Re: Religious question...
Post by: Aggie on May 12, 2010, 06:06:47 pm
Let's try to emulate that.

Doesn't imposing your religious beliefs on another individual kind of defeat the whole "freedom" aspect of this project?  As a devout Catholic, I would be unable to impose my personal viewpoints on abortion or homosexuality on my peers.  My older sister is gay and although I don't agree with her sexual preference, I respect her right to conduct herself as she wishes in the comfort of her own home.  Isn't that really what we're fighting for here?
Title: Re: Religious question...
Post by: anon37268573 on May 12, 2010, 10:13:35 pm
I'm a prospective participant, and I've spent a while studying up on the FSP and what the participants are doing in NH. I'm really, really considering a move (within three years), and I kind of wonder if I'll find anyone with beliefs similar to my own. Are there many voluntaryist Christians there? Or any at all? It probably won't affect my decision to move, but it'd be nice to know in advance.

I'm a practicing Catholic.  But, I pretty much volunteer to do whatever will expedite what ever it is that I'm trying to accomplish at the moment.

And then, there's this bastard, Russel Kanning, here who won't vote to lower our taxes.  He calls himself a voluntaryist Christian.  I don't know anything about him, though.
Title: Re: Religious question...
Post by: Kataqu on May 12, 2010, 10:44:53 pm
Strange to call someone a bastard if you don't know anything about him... : /
Title: Re: Religious question...
Post by: Kataqu on May 12, 2010, 10:47:11 pm
Have you signed the Statement of Intent yet?

No, not yet. I want to make sure I will be able to make the move, before I go committing to things.
Title: Re: Religious question...
Post by: time4liberty on May 28, 2010, 03:34:50 pm
Welcome Kataqu :)

I consider myself a voluntaryist Christian. It seems like there are many people involved with many different religious/metaphysical viewpoints.
Title: Re: Religious question...
Post by: FreedomFred on July 05, 2010, 08:02:34 pm
Let's try to emulate that.

Doesn't imposing your religious beliefs on another individual kind of defeat the whole "freedom" aspect of this project?  As a devout Catholic, I would be unable to impose my personal viewpoints on abortion or homosexuality on my peers.  My older sister is gay and although I don't agree with her sexual preference, I respect her right to conduct herself as she wishes in the comfort of her own home.  Isn't that really what we're fighting for here?

Some are Christian, some are Buddhist, some are Atheist.  And there are many other religions. For someone to hold that a nation will fall apart simply because it did not hold to some particular ideology is a bit ludicrous.

And if you look at your history, *all* nations come and go, regardless of whether or not they cling to some ideology. But you are entitled to believe whatever you want. Of course, when you voice those beliefs that are not in line with reality, expect to be challenged on them.

Having said that, there may be some level of "stability" that can be had by forcing everyone to abide by the same ideology at gunpoint -- and that has definitely been tried many times throughout history. But the cost, of course, is Freedom. That's much too high of a price in my book.
Title: Re: Religious question...
Post by: lobstah on July 05, 2010, 09:00:10 pm
i was a voluntaryist christian until recently. i definitely think the two belief systems can coexist.
Title: Re: Religious question...
Post by: BigJoe on July 05, 2010, 09:16:37 pm
i was a voluntaryist christian until recently. i definitely think the two belief systems can coexist.

did you drop the voluntaryist part, the Christian part, or both?
Title: Re: Religious question...
Post by: lobstah on July 05, 2010, 09:19:21 pm
i was a voluntaryist christian until recently. i definitely think the two belief systems can coexist.

did you drop the voluntaryist part, the Christian part, or both?

sorry, i guess that wasn't very specific. i no longer call myself a christian. i am still a voluntaryist.
Title: Re: Religious question...
Post by: Pat McCotter on July 06, 2010, 02:42:59 am

Doesn't imposing your religious beliefs on another individual kind of defeat the whole "freedom" aspect of this project?  As a devout Catholic, I would be unable to impose my personal viewpoints on abortion or homosexuality on my peers.  My older sister is gay and although I don't agree with her sexual preference, I respect her right to conduct herself as she wishes in the comfort of her own home.  Isn't that really what we're fighting for here?

Do you mean sexuality should remain in the home or do you include public displays of affection in that statement? Would that mean that we heterosexuals should also keep our affection for each other out of public view?
Title: Re: Religious question...
Post by: FreedomFred on July 06, 2010, 06:14:35 am

Doesn't imposing your religious beliefs on another individual kind of defeat the whole "freedom" aspect of this project?  As a devout Catholic, I would be unable to impose my personal viewpoints on abortion or homosexuality on my peers.  My older sister is gay and although I don't agree with her sexual preference, I respect her right to conduct herself as she wishes in the comfort of her own home.  Isn't that really what we're fighting for here?

Do you mean sexuality should remain in the home or do you include public displays of affection in that statement? Would that mean that we heterosexuals should also keep our affection for each other out of public view?

And more to the point, would you now run to mommy government to outlaw any public displays of  affection? Holding hands? Snogging? Off to jail you go! Or did we not learn anything from all the stupid sodomy laws that were on the books -- and still are in some places?