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FSP -- General Discussion => Prospective Participants => Topic started by: kyfornow on November 25, 2009, 12:50:53 pm

Title: The bottomline for my father
Post by: kyfornow on November 25, 2009, 12:50:53 pm
I sat down with my dad for about another 45 minutes today trying once again to convince him that he wants to move to NH. 

In order to sell my dad on the idea, here's his bottom line- maybe some of you out there in NH land can suggest the regions that will best fit this.

Bearing in mind that I am looking for about 50 acres of cheap, remote undeveloped land

For dad it has to fit the following 2 things


1) A climate with as little of the extreme harsh winter as possible, dad doesn't mind if most of the time the winter in NH is like our WORST winter weather in KY (temps of 15ish)
as long as he has some spring time to do gardens and such, but if the majority of the 6 months of winter time there are going to be the ice and snow of doom he doesn't want it

2) Beech, hickory, oak and walnut trees (preferrably all of them)  Unfortunately the pictures I have shown him of sample properties all he tends to see are mostly conifers


if anybody can make suggestions on particular areas to focus on looking for land that fit that please let me know
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: creaganlios on November 25, 2009, 06:01:13 pm
I live on 18 acres in Winchester, in the extereme sw corner of the state.  It's up against the 21-square mile, undeveloped Pisgah State Park.  There are many large acreage parcels available for sale.

The land is about 25% evergreens, 75% hardwoods.  The hardwoods are a mix of Maple, Hickory, Beech, and Oak...with more beech and hickory than i would have guessedwhen i first looked at it from the road!  I dont have any walnut, though i have seen some famrs along our road with very large walnut trees.
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: kyfornow on November 25, 2009, 06:59:49 pm
Thank you very much for the input.  But I have 2 questions to follow this up with-

1) Do you have any idea how I might be in contact with someone regarding the land you speak of?
2) What is the climate like in all 12 months in the area where that acreage is

Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: maxxoccupancy on November 25, 2009, 07:26:19 pm
The mildest winters in New Hampshire can be found on the seacoast.  Land is more abundant on the southern part, but Seabrook's rural side tends to offer something more like two acre lots.  On the other hand, so much is in conservation, right now, that you can grab a small lot and go hiking or snowmobiling on a dozen acres of public or conservation land.
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: creaganlios on November 25, 2009, 09:00:48 pm
Thank you very much for the input.  But I have 2 questions to follow this up with-

1) Do you have any idea how I might be in contact with someone regarding the land you speak of?
2) What is the climate like in all 12 months in the area where that acreage is

1) You should come visit me :-)  There are two lots across the road from me for sale :-)  email me at benchpress59@yahoo.com and we can talk, and i can put you in contact with a local realtor with a lot of land in the area for sale.

2) because we are southern, we tend to be warmer; but because we are inland, we are also more "extreme."  Realistically, that means our summers can be HOT (by my standards), meaning mid-high 80's in July-August. Winters are *not* as cold as up on the Canadian border, but they ARE wet: SW NH (the Monadnock Region) along wth north central and northwest massachusetts, are notorious for being a snowbelt.  This past winter we saw flurries or snow just about every day, and had three storms that piled on 18 inches or more each time.
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: Porcupine Realtor on November 25, 2009, 10:13:30 pm
I suggest you search Cheshire, Sullivan, and Grafton counties.  Those are the onlly ones where you'll find a lot of acreage for cheap.  The other counties are either too expensive or too cold, IMO.
I've seen some decent values in places like Unity, Acworth, Antrim, Alexandria, and Grafton.
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: FTL_Ian on November 25, 2009, 10:37:56 pm
Weather.com offers stats on temperature that you may find useful.
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: kyfornow on November 25, 2009, 11:14:04 pm
I live on 18 acres in Winchester, in the extereme sw corner of the state.  It's up against the 21-square mile, undeveloped Pisgah State Park.  There are many large acreage parcels available for sale.

The land is about 25% evergreens, 75% hardwoods.  The hardwoods are a mix of Maple, Hickory, Beech, and Oak...with more beech and hickory than i would have guessedwhen i first looked at it from the road!  I dont have any walnut, though i have seen some famrs along our road with very large walnut trees.

This is all  excellent information.  I think what I will do is look at the Winchester area with some weather stats.  I’ll take your words and present them to dad regarding the trees and then show him the weather info I print out, as far as temps and frequency of heavy snowfall.

Personally I like the idea  of all that snow, but the father is not too fond of it. 
I’ve got to convince him that 3-4 instances of 18+ inches of snow is something he can accommodate :P  The problem is that my dad quit school in the 7th grade whereas I’ve had a few classes in grad school so he’s a lot smarter than I am! 

I also realized something that I was evaluating incorrectly.  I was limiting my search to land that was $1000 an acre, which of course is quite limited in NH.  However, because of the substantial amount of LESS taxes, I could afford a more costly bit of acreage because I’ll have a good bit more money in hand. 

Also once I’ve got dad on board, I’ve got to start calling every financial entity, bank, lender etc and see if they will extend credit, considering I already have a $300 land payment.  I could afford the 2nd payment until I can turn this land in KY around and sell it, but it’s just a matter of getting the lenders in NH to see it that way. 

If I can sell dad on the prospect of the timber and climate in that area, I’ll email you shortly after!

You’ve all been very helpful already, which is the kind of thing I am looking for in FSP people as I prepare to visit NH and see what’s up. 






Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: rossby on November 25, 2009, 11:27:57 pm
I sat down with my dad for about another 45 minutes today trying once again to convince him that he wants to move to NH. 

I'm sure you've seen it mentioned around, but have you throught of bringing your dad to Liberty Forum 2010 (http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=144439018605&ref=mf)?

I know a number of people who weren't quite sure (or really at all), but a trip up there changed their minds in a snap.
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: freedomroad on November 25, 2009, 11:35:17 pm
I sat down with my dad for about another 45 minutes today trying once again to convince him that he wants to move to NH. 

I'm sure you've seen it mentioned around, but have you throught of bringing your dad to Liberty Forum 2010 (http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=144439018605&ref=mf)?

I know a number of people who weren't quite sure (or really at all), but a trip up there changed their minds in a snap.

Great idea.  And if a hotel conference isn't your style, there is always Porcfest!!!
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: kyfornow on November 26, 2009, 12:15:35 am
No, I assure you a trip to the liberty forum isn’t going to convince my dad of anything.  He’s just an old man that wants to be out in the woods and farm.  Now it’s possible that once we got land and settle in and I am spending time doing liberty activity that he would see me doing it and be having discussions with me and might slowly drift into a very passive liberty involvement (most likely just with me)

For example if I was getting some materials ready to pass out to people or go present in an educational setting, he might help me get it ready to save some time.  Dad’s not a person that likes to be in front of anything. He just wants to farm and hunt squirrels, and work on old guns.

Which that’s exactly what I want out of life, is to be off in the wilderness hunting or tending a garden or just being outside, but I’m a lot younger than he is and I have a lot less to look forward to.  Government will get a lot worse in terms of my lifetime than it will in terms of his remaining lifespan. That’s how he sees it.

It’s funny though because he’s in fairly good health for 71, and when I was talking to him yesterday about making the move with me- he pulled this old man mantra on me, feeble voice and everything.  “Son, I just couldn’t bear to move to NH.  I’m too old to be moving off, changing my whole life, and I just couldn’t handle that cold like I could 50 years ago.”

I replied “Are you seriously trying to play the old man game. :P Is this the same old man that works almost every day?  Or is it the old man that just 2 days ago stayed up for 27 hours straight, about 16 of which you spent working?!”


As for myself the liberty forum is not something I need to see to convince me of the FSP.  I intend on making my initial visit within the next 8 weeks and it’s possible that I’ll already have made the move before the event takes place.  Thus in that case it will just be something I attend by fact of already being in NH.




Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: creaganlios on November 26, 2009, 08:24:37 am
Tell your dad that we're enjoying Thanksgiving with a bird we shot on our own land, water pumped from our own well, potatoes dug from our own garden, and syrup boiled down from our own trees. We used to raise chickesn and sheep, and my partner, who owned horses, is baking his grandma's southren-styled Angel biscuits. :-)

Oh, and the Bourbon.....

 ;D
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: kyfornow on November 26, 2009, 08:39:38 am
Tell your dad that we're enjoying Thanksgiving with a bird we shot on our own land, water pumped from our own well, potatoes dug from our own garden, and syrup boiled down from our own trees. We used to raise chickesn and sheep, and my partner, who owned horses, is baking his grandma's southren-styled Angel biscuits. :-)

Oh, and the Bourbon.....

 ;D

This will probably convince him more than the trees and weather. 
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: time4liberty on November 27, 2009, 02:14:17 pm
It was mostly hardwoods where I was, in Cheshire County.

Here's a temperature chart for Portsmouth, which is probably the more moderate corner of the state: http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/USNH0191

And here's one for Keene area, where I was, which is very nice, and as I say, definitely mostly hardwoods: http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/USNH0119

You can see the average daytime highs don't get that low ;). And the snow is beautiful - get your dad cross country skiing.
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: kyfornow on November 27, 2009, 09:45:05 pm
I’ve looked all over the place and apparently it’s near impossible to find a collection of easy to read, accurate weather data from previous years.  I thought a few point and clicks would show me the 2008 winter data, but no!  I did happen upon a site called weather underground.com but I question it’s accuracy almost 100% because none of the little month maps I pulled up for the Winchester area showed days that had snowfall last winter. 

Dad said he wasn’t as worried about the cold as much as the nature of timber.  He still actually doesn’t believe me after I reported back to him what Thom S said.  The only thing that will convince him, he said, short of him being in NH when I visit, is for me to take pictures of trees on potential properties.

Dad’s priorities in land are rabbits and squirrels, and having the ability to plant gardens, and those trees I listed.  I have convinced him there’s plenty of small game, but the tree thing he isn’t buying yet.

Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: Bazil on November 27, 2009, 10:52:24 pm
I’ve looked all over the place and apparently it’s near impossible to find a collection of easy to read, accurate weather data from previous years.  I thought a few point and clicks would show me the 2008 winter data, but no!  I did happen upon a site called weather underground.com but I question it’s accuracy almost 100% because none of the little month maps I pulled up for the Winchester area showed days that had snowfall last winter. 

Dad said he wasn’t as worried about the cold as much as the nature of timber.  He still actually doesn’t believe me after I reported back to him what Thom S said.  The only thing that will convince him, he said, short of him being in NH when I visit, is for me to take pictures of trees on potential properties.

Dad’s priorities in land are rabbits and squirrels, and having the ability to plant gardens, and those trees I listed.  I have convinced him there’s plenty of small game, but the tree thing he isn’t buying yet.



I don't know what the impression of new england rest of the nation has (never thought to ask) but northern new england has a pretty low population.  NH is a lot like Vermont and Vermont is famous for its maples.  Also plenty of oaks, hickories and such.  Hickory nuts are a little tougher than walnuts but that have a real nice smell.
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: freedomroad on November 28, 2009, 01:50:50 am
I don't know much about trees in NH except that NH is famous for Maple syrup from NH maple trees.  There are also plenty of apple trees.  Berries grow very well, too.

As for gardening, it is easy to do in NH.  Compost piles are common, natural fertilizer is common and gardening is too.  Heck, there is gardening at my place.  Much of NH is actually great for gardening.  Also, it seems like every time I turn around another freedom activist is raising chickens.  Other liberty activists have pigs, goats and honey bees.  It is starting to look great for that type of stuff up here.
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: Lance on November 28, 2009, 02:50:23 am
As far as the severity of the NH winter goes, it isn't going to be anything like 6 months from what I can tell.  Seems pretty much like a Missouri winter to me so far, even though we're not technically in wintertime yet.  But I'm sure that there will be more snow.

Watch this flick with him to show him a different perspective on winter, plus, it's a cool flick:

Alone in the Wilderness - Part 1 (30 min)
http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/z8w-Jb_DgFY/

Alone in the Wilderness - Part 2 (30 min)
http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/27Of9HvFJlY/

As for timber, these pics aren't much but they were taken recently near Dublin, NH.

(http://wiki.freetalklive.com/images/3/39/000_0746.JPG)

(http://wiki.freetalklive.com/images/b/bd/000_0753.JPG)

And this is near Keene:

(http://wiki.freetalklive.com/images/3/3e/100_4809.JPG)

I'd say most of the trees in SW NH are deciduous.
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: kyfornow on November 28, 2009, 12:37:01 pm
As far as the severity of the NH winter goes, it isn't going to be anything like 6 months from what I can tell.  Seems pretty much like a Missouri winter to me so far, even though we're not technically in wintertime yet.  But I'm sure that there will be more snow.



Oh these pics are brilliant.  This looks like it could have been taken right out of our own land! 

Now the only problem is finding property I can afford that looks like that and get it financed.

There has been a lot of nice land that I have seen in NH that I would LOVE to have, but the prices are just way out of my league.  I don't know what other people or how they do it as far as affording the houses and properties in NH, but they are unrealistic to me.  I've never ever made much money, the 56 acres that I own in KY I got for a steal basically, and only have been able to do some things with it because I always work 70-80 hours a week.  For the type of income I have known in my work life, going out to eat at a restaurant that is going to cost $12-15 comes off to me as being just too much money.  So when I see land that runs $1500-2000 an acre or more I'm overwhelmed. 
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: kyfornow on November 28, 2009, 12:49:41 pm
Oh these pics are brilliant.  This looks like it could have been taken right out of our own land! 

Now the only problem is finding property I can afford that looks like that and get it financed.

There has been a lot of nice land that I have seen in NH that I would LOVE to have, but the prices are just way out of my league.  I don't know what other people do or how they do it as far as affording the houses and properties in NH, but they are unrealistic to me.  I've never ever made much money, the 56 acres that I own in KY I got for a steal basically, and only have been able to do some things with it because I always work 70-80 hours a week.  For the type of income I have known in my work life, going out to eat at a restaurant that is going to cost $12-15 comes off to me as being just too much money.  So when I see land that runs $1500-2000 an acre or more I'm overwhelmed. 
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: Bazil on November 28, 2009, 02:51:59 pm
The further into the sticks you are the cheaper it is.  Also access has a lot to do with it too.  I've seen 60 acres of land for 70 grand before in central NH, and prices are generally cheaper now than they were then.  The thing about the cheap land is it will probably be non-buildable forest land, so you will need to parcel off a piece and get it's status changed.
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: time4liberty on November 28, 2009, 04:44:38 pm
KY, ever heard of New England fall foliage?

Connifers don't change color. ;)

(http://files.myopera.com/Mathilda%C2%B4s%20Wallpaper/albums/111254/Autumn%20Colors,%20White%20Mountains,%20New%20Hampshire%20-%20.jpg)

(http://www.lincolnwoodstock.com/members/photos/65.jpg)

(http://www.skypic.com/ski/6-6830.jpg)

Our property was covered in chipmunks, squirrels, deer, other small critters, and we had quite a sizable garden =).

Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: kyfornow on November 28, 2009, 05:58:19 pm
The further into the sticks you are the cheaper it is.  Also access has a lot to do with it too.  I've seen 60 acres of land for 70 grand before in central NH, and prices are generally cheaper now than they were then.  The thing about the cheap land is it will probably be non-buildable forest land, so you will need to parcel off a piece and get it's status changed.

See that presents more than one problem.  I'll have to have land without the restrictions or go into it with the expectation that I'm going to build anyway and say to hell wih the restrictions (because it's my property and I can do what I want with it)

Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: kyfornow on November 28, 2009, 06:01:08 pm
KY, ever heard of New England fall foliage?

Connifers don't change color. ;)

(http://files.myopera.com/Mathilda%C2%B4s%20Wallpaper/albums/111254/Autumn%20Colors,%20White%20Mountains,%20New%20Hampshire%20-%20.jpg)

(http://www.lincolnwoodstock.com/members/photos/65.jpg)

(http://www.skypic.com/ski/6-6830.jpg)

Our property was covered in chipmunks, squirrels, deer, other small critters, and we had quite a sizable garden =).



That is a pretty place, but do you mind if I ask where you came up with the $3 million to buy it with :P

I appreciate all the good photos from you all.  They did the work of convincing dad of what we could find in NH.  Now the only limitation is finding something that suits us, in our price range.  I finally got him to suggest that we should try and sell our acreage here so we can take the cash we get from it (which will be 20-30K)  to have toward a downpayment on new land.  The only problem is that crappy economy and land market right now, we might be stuck with this acreage indefinitely. 
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: Bazil on November 28, 2009, 09:40:03 pm
See that presents more than one problem.  I'll have to have land without the restrictions or go into it with the expectation that I'm going to build anyway and say to hell wih the restrictions (because it's my property and I can do what I want with it)

And that is one of the point of the FSP.  There isn't any state in the union that allows you to do anything you want with your land right now.
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: kyfornow on November 28, 2009, 10:01:06 pm
Yes and that is my personal motivation for wanting to be involved with FSP.  Though everyone involved is working for the same goal overall, people have personal goals they want to resolve, such as ending the drug war, gun rights etc.  For me, it’s the ability to use my land how I want, so there’s a likelihood that a realm of CD in which I might be involved in NH is building a cabin and having animals and gardens on acreage even if a county code or restriction says I can’t. 

There aren’t really a lot of codes in the rural county where my land is in KY, and what few there are, are rarely ever enforced.  But it’s only a matter of time, maybe 10-15 years before that changes, and I’d be standing alone  when I disregard the rules, and continue using my land how I see fit.  At least in NH, I’ll have other people around me supporting property rights. 

In my current location, if I up any kind of resistance or CD to the county officials, I’m just going to be dragged off to jail.  And the neighbors and other residents around me  who are statists, are just going to think I’m crazy, and the ones who might secretly agree with me are just going to stand there and look on as I’m being carted off to jail.
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: time4liberty on November 29, 2009, 02:04:06 am
Yes and that is my personal motivation for wanting to be involved with FSP.  Though everyone involved is working for the same goal overall, people have personal goals they want to resolve, such as ending the drug war, gun rights etc.  For me, it’s the ability to use my land how I want, so there’s a likelihood that a realm of CD in which I might be involved in NH is building a cabin and having animals and gardens on acreage even if a county code or restriction says I can’t. 

There aren’t really a lot of codes in the rural county where my land is in KY, and what few there are, are rarely ever enforced.  But it’s only a matter of time, maybe 10-15 years before that changes, and I’d be standing alone  when I disregard the rules, and continue using my land how I see fit.  At least in NH, I’ll have other people around me supporting property rights. 

In my current location, if I up any kind of resistance or CD to the county officials, I’m just going to be dragged off to jail.  And the neighbors and other residents around me  who are statists, are just going to think I’m crazy, and the ones who might secretly agree with me are just going to stand there and look on as I’m being carted off to jail.

That's a major motivation for me too, more than gun rights or the drug war. The other big one is taxes, but that's even tougher to tackle.
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: JasonPSorens on November 29, 2009, 04:03:44 pm
If you want lots of land for forestry or hunting but don't want to pay for a buildable lot, one idea is to buy the land and your house separately, but within a short distance of each other.
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: kyfornow on December 04, 2009, 04:22:55 am
I can find a HUGE list of properties in Maine that are more than reasonably priced, and quite a few in Vermont, but when the parameters are limited to NH, the search turns up almost nothing fitting what we want.  This is unbelieveable.  Found one in Maine 200 acres for 49,900! 
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: time4liberty on December 04, 2009, 01:03:29 pm
I can find a HUGE list of properties in Maine that are more than reasonably priced, and quite a few in Vermont, but when the parameters are limited to NH, the search turns up almost nothing fitting what we want.  This is unbelieveable.  Found one in Maine 200 acres for 49,900! 

What exactly are you looking for? Do you want to build on it, or just have it for hunting/recreation?

Here's 50 acres for 50,000, in cheshire county, which is a high demand area. If you were to go to coos or something I'm sure you could get much larger tracts for cheaper.

http://www.landwatch.com/Cheshire-County-New-Hampshire-Land-for-sale/pid/114686288
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: cathleeninnh on December 04, 2009, 01:25:21 pm
Did you get in touch with Bob Hull? Very important if looking for reasonable priced land!
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: kyfornow on December 04, 2009, 01:45:22 pm
I can find a HUGE list of properties in Maine that are more than reasonably priced, and quite a few in Vermont, but when the parameters are limited to NH, the search turns up almost nothing fitting what we want.  This is unbelieveable.  Found one in Maine 200 acres for 49,900! 

What exactly are you looking for? Do you want to build on it, or just have it for hunting/recreation?

Here's 50 acres for 50,000, in cheshire county, which is a high demand area. If you were to go to coos or something I'm sure you could get much larger tracts for cheaper.

http://www.landwatch.com/Cheshire-County-New-Hampshire-Land-for-sale/pid/114686288

I have looked at that piece of land online.  It doesn't have good road access (So another 8-10K having the work done) and unless it just doesn't specify, there's no above ground water source like a creek.  It looks like it has some good trees on it though. 

The intended use for the land is to homestead.  Think Little House on the Prairie meets old man on the mountain.  Our goal has always been to have a little remote cabin, enough gardens for me and dad, and about  50 animals, basically enough resources to cover our needs and have a little left over to barter or sell.

That 200acres in maine would be perfect and is easily affordable at 49,900. Why cant the northern border of NH take in that area :P
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: kyfornow on December 04, 2009, 01:50:57 pm
Did you get in touch with Bob Hull? Very important if looking for reasonable priced land!

I can't remember if I did now or not!?  I've had so many suggestions of helpful ideas and people to get in touch with that theyre all starting to run together.  If he has a website and I look at it I'll remember if I looked at it already. 
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: time4liberty on December 04, 2009, 02:11:44 pm
Have you seen this page?

http://www.cbcovey.com/realestate/search/6880/listprice/10/10?
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: kyfornow on December 04, 2009, 02:20:53 pm
I thought I had just found the perfect one, 26 acres for 26,000 with a creek and then I looked and it was in VT!!!!
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: John Edward Mercier on December 04, 2009, 02:45:29 pm
Most land listing won't focus on above ground water sources...
Droughts here aren't really a concern... most often its the opposite.

Also land gets higher use zoning restrictions, not agricultural... expcept for maybe municipal ordinance on very small lots.
My land in commercial... so I can do anything from agricultural up to commmercial (just no industrial).

If you intend to sell the extra... remember you may not wish to be too far from the urban market.
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: time4liberty on December 04, 2009, 02:46:40 pm
Ooo, how about this: http://www.newlondonagency.com/real_estate/listings/Wilmot%20NH/2794155/82/68878?sid=5075&RedirectURL=%2F-ListPrice%2Cofficename%2Clastname%2F0%2F10%2F%3F
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: Kate on December 04, 2009, 06:28:14 pm
Try looking at properties with a camp or trailer on them.  Some times they are the same price as land without buildings. 
You will also avoid the in use issue and extra taxes to take it out of "in use".

Land that has been recently logged will also be cheaper.  You won't have any large trees on it but it won't be clear cut either.

Watch out for swampy areas.  Not only are they "wet lands" that the government gets their panties in bunch if you build on they also tend to flood in the spring, badly.  The best time of year to go shopping is mid spring.  It is know as mud season here in NH.  You will see the land at it's worst and most flooded.  You will also know if you can get in and out on the roads.   Most of the roads up here in the country are not paved.

Look for something on the southern side of the mountain or hill.  It will be much better for farming due to more sunlight.. ( your dad may know all about this.)
The bottom of a valley will hold onto the cold air the longest since it rolls down the hills.  It also floods.  Flooding is an issue all over the state.  Flat is also very hard and pricey to find.

The growing season is much shorter than Kentucky.  Most of the state with affordable land is in zone 4.  That means you have from Memorial day to Mid September without frost. Many people use cold frames and green houses to extend the growing season.   Peanuts, and tobacco, won't grow up here.  Most everything else you can find variates that do well up here.    If can pick up a book called the Vegetable Gardeners Bible by Ed Smith.  He has his garden north west of Grafton in Vermont.   It will give your father a very good idea of how people do things in Northern New England.

NH has sugar maples.  You and your father may want to look into property with sugar maples.  They are the best source of sap for maple syrup.   
Keep in mind the State is 87% Forrest.   
You are going to have more hard woods on the northern sides on the mountains and more conifers on the southern side.  Everywhere has both.
 
As mentioned before Grafton is a good place to take a look.   There are no permits to build there,  a great group of activists, and affordable land. (for NH)
There quite a few gardeners in the Grafton.  I think there is also a nursery owned by a good local in the area.

I do know Bob Hull is interested in helping movers settle in Grafton.   You may be able to rent in the country till you can find the right piece of land to buy.  Quite a few movers have had great success moving here and renting till they found the best place to settle down.  They also saved a great deal of money since they had the time to shop around.

Kate

Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: kyfornow on December 04, 2009, 07:00:20 pm
Well my land here was about 15 miles away from a town of 4,000 and that would have been a sufficient market for selling excess stuff.  Like I said I took us 3 years to find this property and now we have owned it 3 years.  I wouldn’t be in such a push to find something if dad wasn’t 71, so I have to try to turn a 3 year search this time into a 3-4 month adventure. 

I can’t say it was actually easy in KY, because we probably looked through over 2500 listings online or in advertisements, made inquiries about approx 500 of them, went and looked at about 150, and actually seriously walked over and assessed about 25 properties.  We only found 3 that we wanted in 3 years and the first 2, the sellers were given better offers than we could match. 

So far I’ve seen about 25 in VT and over 100 in Maine that seem to fit the bill without much effort at all.  That’s not as many as having 500 worth looking into, but so far I’ve seen almost  nothing in NH UNLESS I make some major sacrifices.  All 3 of those states are so close so I don’t get it.

I appreciate all the links and suggestions- please do keep sending them because the more listings I have to look at the better the chances of finding one, and the higher chance of getting dad to move with an easy conscience.  Plus it would make me happy too!




Kate, I appreciate greatly the suggestions here.  I’m going to read this stuff to my dad.  He’s been asking quite a few little questions.  He was asking about the growing season the other day.   Dad has this impression of NH that I’m slowly breaking-basically NH is almost to Canada so therefore it has nothing but pine trees and snow :P

Also from what you have described, Grafton sounds a great deal as if I should take it into consideration.  That’s about 30 miles of north of Keene I believe?
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: time4liberty on December 04, 2009, 07:32:19 pm
January might not be the best time to visit for the purposes of convincing him that NH isn't all snow ;)

I'm not sure why fewer properties in NH seem to be available. It's certainly true that there are vaster uninhabited areas in Maine and VT. The part of NH that touches Canada is more narrow.

I'd come and check things out in the spring, summer, or fall as well. I doubt you're going to be able to get a great feel for the land, for growing purposes in the winter, but I could be wrong. There are tons of small farms around, so you could probably talk to them and get some insight too.

You should consider growing berries and apple trees as well -- Strawberries, Blueberries, Rasberries, and Blackberries all go nuts in NH.
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: Kate on December 04, 2009, 08:30:17 pm
Due to the winter coming this is the slow season for real estate. 
Most people will wait till after mud season to list a property. 
Summer and fall are the big times to try and sell a place when the foliage is the prettiest.

Check out this thread on the NH free.com
http://nhunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=19577.msg312533#msg312533

It has some other good suggestions on recourses about gardening in Northern New England.

Kate
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: kyfornow on December 04, 2009, 09:22:53 pm
It would be great if I see areas where berries like this grew so I can take pictures or show them to dad if he goes.  We had our property already laid out-where the animals would be, where the berries and fruit trees would be, with the cabin being built in the center of the place. 

Everything I can show him that is similar enough to things here will help convince him.  He tried to change my mind again last night, and acted very sad, but I told him I just couldn’t stay here.  I even turned down a job offer today- I tried for months to get hired at this place because it was close to my farm, and interviewed 2 weeks ago and they emailed me today.  It was something I loved doing too, even if it was statist.  But it’s time to get away from here- this area is just hopeless when it comes to rights and taxes.


Anyway , I’m not worried about how isolated a piece of land is-in fact I prefer it.  As long as there’s just one creek or spring on it that stays watered year round.  Kate suggested  looking at a place that’s been timbered, and that’s not a problem either, as long as the only trees left aren’t all thinner than a baseball bat. 
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: Kate on December 04, 2009, 10:09:12 pm
Other than hunting and gardening what does your father love to do? 
I'm sure we can find people for him to meet that share his passions.

Grafton has an advantage of having a good group of people living there that want to do there own thing.  The nice thing for your dad is they are not all a bunch of young guys fresh out of school.  Many of them have retired to Grafton or are working on retiring to Grafton.   They build and renovate buildings, garden,  teach people to shot riffles, have great picnics,  they help make Burning Porcupine happen every year, they are also working on getting rid of zoning in the town and are just a fun bunch of people who quite frankly want to be left alone to live in peace.   It also 35 to 40 minutes away from Hanover /Lebanon so you both can find work. 
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: John Edward Mercier on December 04, 2009, 10:59:15 pm
Grafton has zoning?
Learn something new every day.
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: kyfornow on December 04, 2009, 11:06:18 pm
Other than hunting and gardening what does your father love to do? 
I'm sure we can find people for him to meet that share his passions.

Grafton has an advantage of having a good group of people living there that want to do there own thing.  The nice thing for your dad is they are not all a bunch of young guys fresh out of school.  Many of them have retired to Grafton or are working on retiring to Grafton.   They build and renovate buildings, garden,  teach people to shot riffles, have great picnics,  they help make Burning Porcupine happen every year, they are also working on getting rid of zoning in the town and are just a fun bunch of people who quite frankly want to be left alone to live in peace.   It also 35 to 40 minutes away from Hanover /Lebanon so you both can find work. 
Well me and dad are both old people so the fresh out of school crowd wouldn‘t appeal to me either :P  He’s 71 and I’m 28 and have been going on 50 since I was a kid.  I’ve looked at the Keene area for the civil disobedience approach, and that’s probably where I’ll go if I do that- laying down on the ground if the police arrest me etc. 

But from looking at the demographics of Keene as a social scene, it really has nothing to offer me.  I’ve never really fit well with my age group and the friends I have that are in their 20’s also don’t carry themselves as if they are 20 something. 

I’m not a coffee shop or bar type.  I’m not worried about the latest cell phone or where the newest wi-fi spot is in town.  I mostly go to work or walk my dogs.  Dad hunts or works on his guns.  The only thing related to socializing that he usually does is play music.  My socializing is sitting at a friend’s house discussing/arguing points of interest. 

Theres  a large group of his old friends and acquaintances that get together 2-3 times a month and just play (old country and bluegrass)  But he’s getting tired of them because too many know-it-alls are starting to come around.  Dad has an ability that you have to see to believe on guitar and he gets annoyed with people who try to join them and think they know what they’re doing.  He’s been playing about 60 years.

But we share a goal in life which is to homestead, mostly by hand, a piece of land and be as self-sustaining as possible.  As for work, I’d prefer something outdoors but if I like what I see in NH I might like to rethink the idea of teaching.  I believe it was you that said you helped start the gifted school.  I might have a notion to connect with people who want to start a private (liberty driven) school for 13-18 age group.  If that is something that could materialize I would love to be involved. 

It would be a dream come true to actually get to teach REAL social studies, and not the format found in the government schools.  It would be a dream come true to be involved with teachers, parents and advisors who are motivated and for the right reasons.  Education that is more learning driven instead of state driven would be a nice change.


Quote
  who quite frankly want to be left alone to live in peace.   


This has just convinced me that Grafton is going to receive the bulk of my focus for the trip.






Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: time4liberty on December 05, 2009, 03:06:31 pm
Here's a list of some PYO farms: http://www.pickyourown.org/NH.htm#listings

And here's a calandar listing when some fruit/veg comes in: http://www.pickyourown.org/NHharvestcalendar.htm
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: Kate on December 05, 2009, 09:44:12 pm
I would recomend you go to the New Hampshire Underground.

http://nhunderground.com/forum/index.php

 A good chunk of the Graftonites are on that forum.  Let them know you are coming to visit. 
They would love to show you around.
Kate
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: kyfornow on December 06, 2009, 06:48:45 pm
I went out to my farm today to show my brother-in law around, told him he could hunt out there.  He instantly fell in love with the place and as me and dad did also.  I felt mysef wavering over the idea to come to NH just by being out there. 

Thats why I was glad to hear of other people leaving things behind.  I hadn't been out there in over 2 months and just seeing it again made me sad. 

But maybe Ill just see something in the Grafton area that makes me happy!

Only 18 more days! YAY
Title: Re: The bottomline for my father
Post by: kyfornow on December 11, 2009, 03:03:03 am
Dad and I had a rather intense confrontation tonight. 

I wouldn't have blatantly brought up the subject of freedom but he mentioned our security guard who is a sheriff's deputy, who had to escort somebody from the building today.  He just kept going on and on about how he's just a talkative and funny guy until you cause trouble.  After he went on about it several times I interupted him with "Dad he's nothing but a thug.  He hurts people and gets away with it because he has a badge."

This stopped dad in his tracks.  He gets offended every time I attack any of the security people because they're all his friends.  So I say to dad, "Basically, if I explained to the man that it's wrong for him to use force on people who aren't hurting anybody, then I consider him educated.  If he continues to choose to use force on people, they have a right to defend themselves.  As far as I am concerned, if the man shoots at somebody defending themselves or their property, then he deserves to be shot the same as a robber who robs me at gunpoint.  He's not a hero or a victim, he's a thug armed with a gun. 

The peaceful movement will just hug him, or smile and continue to remind him that what he does is wrong, because peaceful resistance is the most effective method of going against government.  But inherently what he deserves is to have force equal to the force he used, metered out to him.

Dad said I needed to see a psychiatrist and get medicine. 

I told him "Well that's where we need to part ways"

He took that poorly.  I have a feeling that when the time comes, I'll be moving to NH minus the father.