Free State Project Forum

FSP -- General Discussion => Prospective Participants => Topic started by: rossby on November 15, 2009, 09:25:08 pm

Title: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: rossby on November 15, 2009, 09:25:08 pm
Just read the posts.

The answers are in there.

I mean this respectfully, but you appear to be engaging in the very dismissiveness you're complaining about.

Quote
"Just don't tell people to take their idea and get lost. Option? Offer help, info, ideas, contacts, etc."

Please, have at it. I'll even split the thread.
Title: Re: Maxxoccupancy's Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: maxxoccupancy on November 15, 2009, 09:27:44 pm
Just go back and read the thread.  You shouldn't ask people to repost from the same thread or quote themselves.  If you don't understand, then you don't understand.  If you're trying not to understand, that's a different issue.
Title: Re: Maxxoccupancy's Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: rossby on November 15, 2009, 10:14:33 pm
Just go back and read the thread.  You shouldn't ask people to repost from the same thread or quote themselves.  If you don't understand, then you don't understand.  If you're trying not to understand, that's a different issue.

My goodness, such hostility. I haven't asked you to do those things. You simply haven't addressed the things I'd asked for. Not substantially. Not so far as I can tell. Let it never be said that I didn't earnestly listen to your complaints and directly solicit your suggestions.
Title: Re: Maxxoccupancy's Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: FreeStyle on November 16, 2009, 05:21:30 am
I'm interested too.  In fact we should keep all of the suggestions in this thread.
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: rossby on November 16, 2009, 04:19:25 pm
I'm interested too.  In fact we should keep all of the suggestions in this thread.

Whatcha got for us? :)
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: madness! on November 16, 2009, 04:39:09 pm
i think i am going to try and be less confrontational...

maybe have an "opinions" subforum.  That way, people can still argue, but all the debates will be in a single spot. particularly the more... vicious debates. hot button issues like abortion, gay marriage, role of government, secession, etc, could have there own sticky (or maybe there own child forum) so people could post there opinions and ideas in there. plus, if some one came around pursuing the forums about the FSP, they could check the "opinions" section and see the diverse set of opinions that people have. also, topics that go off on a tangent with a lengthy argument between several people can be moved there. i think it would make the rest of the forum more friendly without having to have "police" moderators.
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: FreeStyle on November 16, 2009, 04:41:32 pm
sweet idea. 
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: rossby on November 16, 2009, 04:47:37 pm
i think i am going to try and be less confrontational...

maybe have an "opinions" subforum.  That way, people can still argue, but all the debates will be in a single spot. particularly the more... vicious debates. hot button issues like abortion, gay marriage, role of government, secession, etc, could have there own sticky (or maybe there own child forum) so people could post there opinions and ideas in there. plus, if some one came around pursuing the forums about the FSP, they could check the "opinions" section and see the diverse set of opinions that people have. also, topics that go off on a tangent with a lengthy argument between several people can be moved there. i think it would make the rest of the forum more friendly without having to have "police" moderators.

Forums for a group with a specific cause, more often than not, tend to be divisive.

What do you think about having "light discussion" on all those opinion-topics, but also actively referring people to the many other internet forums run by FSP of FSP-friendly folks?
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: madness! on November 16, 2009, 05:00:40 pm
thats probably a better idea, keep it nice and light. after all, unlike say, a liberation discussion board, we are all going to be working together on a face to face basis once we get to NH.
Title: Re: Maxxoccupancy's Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: maxxoccupancy on November 16, 2009, 07:46:21 pm
Just go back and read the thread.  You shouldn't ask people to repost from the same thread or quote themselves.  If you don't understand, then you don't understand.  If you're trying not to understand, that's a different issue.

My goodness, such hostility. I haven't asked you to do those things. You simply haven't addressed the things I'd asked for. Not substantially. Not so far as I can tell. Let it never be said that I didn't earnestly listen to your complaints and directly solicit your suggestions.

Hostility?  That's the problem with fora (and email, chat, etc).  I'm just saying that if you go back and read the whole thread, you'll see people's suggestions for what to do or not do.  Splitting a thread called "Why only 776?" because I'm answering the OP's question--and insisting that someone basically change topics--makes no sense to me.

To be sure, I'm not intending any hostility.  I'm just asking you to go back and reread the thread.  I was just answering the OP's question.
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: rossby on November 17, 2009, 03:29:40 pm
Just go back and read the thread.  You shouldn't ask people to repost from the same thread or quote themselves.  If you don't understand, then you don't understand.  If you're trying not to understand, that's a different issue.

My goodness, such hostility. I haven't asked you to do those things. You simply haven't addressed the things I'd asked for. Not substantially. Not so far as I can tell. Let it never be said that I didn't earnestly listen to your complaints and directly solicit your suggestions.

Hostility?  That's the problem with fora (and email, chat, etc).  I'm just saying that if you go back and read the whole thread, you'll see people's suggestions for what to do or not do.  Splitting a thread called "Why only 776?" because I'm answering the OP's question--and insisting that someone basically change topics--makes no sense to me.

To be sure, I'm not intending any hostility.  I'm just asking you to go back and reread the thread.  I was just answering the OP's question.

I did read the thread.

Then I asked, not what is wrong, but what could be done to fix those things you identified.

There have been no real responses about "fixes" in that thread. And you've further complained that about negativity and that people shouldn't tell others to "Go do it yourself."

But I feel like that's what you're doing now. This is an opportunity to fix those problems: do you really want to?

http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?topic=19436.msg231475#msg231475

C'mon. For each item in there, think of 2-3 suggestions. That's open to everyone.
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: maxxoccupancy on November 17, 2009, 05:20:03 pm
That thread was "Why only 776," and my intent was to give a number of reasons--as a long time recruiter--why so many folks aren't moving or haven't even signed up to move.

I feel pretty confident that I had explained the solutions, where solutions were available--but in most cases (family, medical, split custody, etc), no solution is available.  Obviously, folks could be less negative/personal

Flame wars and personal attacks have disenchanted a lot of folks, and we've all seen the counter come to a dead stop when those flame wars have dragged on.  When one identifies negative posting as a major problem, then suggests that trolls be booted off of this forum (in order to solve that problem), it's not okay (IMO) to then insist that a poster propose a solution.  The reason is that I have already posted the solution on that one: boot the regular personal attackers off of this forum.

That, IMO, is the solution.

Boot the trolls off the forum--or at least, stop making them moderators.

The FSP Board has stated that they do not advertise in state.  The Board has asked members not to advertise in state. That, IMO, is a mistake.  As an example, I mentioned the Sponsor a Highway project on Route 286, which thousands of out of state beach goers use every month to come to Hampton and Seabrook Beaches.  Instead of disallowing the use of the Free State Project name on that sign, the Board should allow it.  So, my advice/suggestion is to allow it, rather than forbid or discourage in state advertising.

Another example I gave was the FSP Board's refusal to endorse or accept ads for the Next 1,000.  Since the Next 1,000 was discussed and brought about from the grass roots level (mover-activists themselves), I felt that the Board should both endorse the effort and allow Next 1,000 ads in the FSP Newsletter, which reaches about 12,000 people.

My suggestion, if you will, is to allow the Next 1,000--a grassroots project--to be advertised in the FSP Newsletter.  My other suggestion was for the FSP Board to endorse various grass roots organized projects--like the Next 1,000.

I really did feel that the solutions to these problems were pretty well understood, and I don't see a reason to explain in graphic, explicit detail that we (or the Board) should do things that are good, and that we (or the Board) should stop doing things that are bad.
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: maxxoccupancy on November 17, 2009, 05:22:34 pm
Or, for further clarification:

1. If something is bad, and leads to bad things, we (myself and other people) should not do it (or stop doing it if myself and/or other people are doing it).

2. If something is good, and leads to good things, we (myself and other people) should start/continue doing it for as long as it appears to lead to good results.
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: FreeStyle on November 17, 2009, 05:24:39 pm
Quote
-members are not members.  Only the FSP Board has any say in the organization.  Movers are not considered "members," and have no vote or say in anything that FSP Corp. does.  This is not a member owned organization.

Suggestions(?):  

1)  have movers elect new board members.  Possibly at a conference like Porcfest or Liberty Forum.  This should be open to movers and would show prospective movers attending that once they settle, they too can decide which liberty lovers they want to steer the direction of the FSP.  (Since the direction should mostly be the same goal of the organization, this shouldn't be too difficult. .. the organization is about moving people to NH.  If there are other suggestions for other states and etc. . . those should be reserved for a new organization NOT the FSP)

2)  Let movers decide on how they would like the money spent.  Some movers might feel that they're no longer important to the movement since they arrived.  Some might be frustrated with how the money is spent.  I really don't know how it gets decided.  The board should be the ones to put up the best ideas and the members should be the ones deciding where it goes

3)  Allow all movers/members to advertise the FSP as they see fit.  Some people might not agree with the types of ads or the places the ads are put.  The logo of the organization, the name, initials, mission statements, etc should be free to use for all members for whatever media they choose to create with it.  Hearing from anyone that the images are copyrighted and that you'd have to ask permission seems counter productive.   The board doesn't need to be a part of it I don't think.  Copyright issues should not be discussed in a manner to threaten others not to use the logo and name.  We're supposed to be libertarian.

Quote
-substance abuse.  Drinking (and other drugs) have been a major issue, in my opinion.  Some folks have taken this to excess, and it inhibits their drive to do anything but hold the occasional sign or attend the occasional event.  I am drinking a Blue Moon while writing this, so whatever, eh.

1)  Encourage these drunks to join support groups.  Believe it or not, some people might not know that you think they have a problem at all.

2)  Create your own support group, or tailor one that you've seen/used to fit the ideals of a libertarian/anarchist/atheist/polytheist/etc.  Just pointing at someone and saying they're abusing drugs or alcohol doesn't do much to help them.

3)  Offer a service to provide rides for porcs you feel might be driving under the influence.  Offer rides to the polls to hold signs or to a 420 rally for those that are too inebriated to drive.

Quote
-moving back out.  Many porcs have moved here only to leave.  Some leave for just a few months, while others intend to leave for good.  Some have become disgruntled about the movement, while others just lose interest.

1)  There's a reason they're leaving.  Find out what it is.  Ask what you can do to help them out with their issues.  

2)  Some leave because there's lack of work.  Find out their trade and help them look for jobs.  For those uninterested, find out what interested them in the first place.  Initiate a call to find out who else is interested in the same things.  Not just liberty issues, find out who likes to go fishing and post something asking if people want to go on a porcupine fishing trip!  At the same time, you can find out laws that are unfairly anti-fishing and bring them up during the trip, it might just get their juices flowing again.

3)  Find out what about the movement is bad to them.  I've often felt that this movement wasn't actually for me, it was for other types of libertarians.  Find out where these people lie in their thoughts and connect them to others that are looking to be active on the same issues.  

4)  Don't play up the state or the area of the state with untrue "facts".  Let's not pretend that any place in this state is some liberty haven just waiting for people to move there and "take over". . . . let's also not pretend that there's any part of the state that has "good" cops, "good" bureaucrats, "good" politicians, "good" citizens.  I've not been to a town yet that was devoid of statist thinking and acting goons.  BE HONEST.  can I say that again. . . > HONEST.  Your opinion is great and everything but when you start blatantly lying about why your area is better than the others by dropping factoids that simply can't be corroborated by ANYONE. . . it might just turn people off to you, your area, NH, FSP, and the liberty movement as a whole.  Post honest facts that you can back up with absolute proof.  No one wants to move to an area to find out that what they were told about it is not true.  Don't attack those who are calling you out on your opinions that you are posting as fact.

that's what I have for now.  It's all the same stuff everyone says so it shouldn't be very surprising.  My apologies if the FSP board question was answered with incorrect information.  I don't have much information about the board at all, or how it works.  Please keep that in mind before you tear me apart.


ok, so proceed to do so.

Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: FreeStyle on November 17, 2009, 05:35:21 pm
Quote
I mentioned the Sponsor a Highway project on Route 286, which thousands of out of state beach goers use every month to come to Hampton and Seabrook Beaches.  Instead of disallowing the use of the Free State Project name on that sign, the Board should allow it.  So, my advice/suggestion is to allow it, rather than forbid or discourage in state advertising.

I agree with this statement.  I understand why the FSP doesn't advertise in NH.  No new movers are coming from NH to NH.   I would also corroborate that there are thousands of people who drive from their homes in Massachusetts to New Hampshire to visit Hampton Beach.  Route 286 is one of the main arteries to this area.  As I said in my suggestions, I don't think the board should be doing much forbidding with the name and logo.  As if the name "Free State Project" isn't going to get some people (even in NH) to check out the site and read about what the group is all about.  If they're from NH, it might turn them on to other groups that are liberty oriented.  Maybe they'll enjoy the Free State Blogs.  Perhaps they'll tell their libertarian friends on the internets about this great liberty oriented group.  I understand the board not wanting to spend money on ads in NH. . . duh.  What irks me is that when you shut someone down they're not just going to say "whatever" they're going to feel that the effort they want to put in is not good enough for the project they moved for.

286, in my humblest of humble opinions, is one of the best places in the area to attract liberty lovers from Massachusetts.  Frankly, I really don't want to hear about the evil socialists in MA.  There AREEEEEE liberty people.  Myself, PorcupineinNH, Jraxis are three that hail from the commonwealth.  I may not be active as of yet (I've not moved yet) but the other two most definitely are.   Heck, even if those evil statists from MA do see the sign, they might accuse a liberty lover in their own state with being part of the group.  This is how I found the FSP.  . . . a statist friend accused me of being a free stater.  Wonder what site I was on that night?
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: rossby on November 17, 2009, 05:43:09 pm
that's what I have for now.  It's all the same stuff everyone says so it shouldn't be very surprising.  My apologies if the FSP board question was answered with incorrect information.  I don't have much information about the board at all, or how it works.  Please keep that in mind before you tear me apart.

I have no desire to "tear anyone apart". My responses are open to anyone, and I appreciate all responses.

1)  have movers elect new board members.  Possibly at a conference like Porcfest or Liberty Forum.  This should be open to movers and would show prospective movers attending that once they settle, they too can decide which liberty lovers they want to steer the direction of the FSP.  (Since the direction should mostly be the same goal of the organization, this shouldn't be too difficult. .. the organization is about moving people to NH.  If there are other suggestions for other states and etc. . . those should be reserved for a new organization NOT the FSP)

...

2)  Let movers decide on how they would like the money spent.  Some movers might feel that they're no longer important to the movement since they arrived.  Some might be frustrated with how the money is spent.  I really don't know how it gets decided.  The board should be the ones to put up the best ideas and the members should be the ones deciding where it goes

The money is raised and effort done by movers, non-movers, and friends alike. Why should the movers have sole control of it?

Also, the board minutes are posted online at freestateproject.org. One can log in and look through the Site Index. I don't think those from the last two meetings are up yet though.

What if the board sent a message on a periodic basis and attempted to keep people more informed about what was going on?

3)  Allow all movers/members to advertise the FSP as they see fit.  Some people might not agree with the types of ads or the places the ads are put.  The logo of the organization, the name, initials, mission statements, etc should be free to use for all members for whatever media they choose to create with it.  Hearing from anyone that the images are copyrighted and that you'd have to ask permission seems counter productive.   The board doesn't need to be a part of it I don't think. Copyright issues should not be discussed in a manner to threaten others not to use the logo and name.  We're supposed to be libertarian.

I don't think it's the content or method that bothers anyone. Or at least not a significat number of people. I think it's the specific people who are advertising. For example, if Stormfront started advertising, that's something that the board would probably be opposed to, because there's a strong desire not to be associated with racial agitators.

I guess I haven't done quite enough homework here. I don't know of enough "no, don't use the logo" issues.

Quote
-moving back out.  Many porcs have moved here only to leave.  Some leave for just a few months, while others intend to leave for good.  Some have become disgruntled about the movement, while others just lose interest.

1)  There's a reason they're leaving.  Find out what it is.  Ask what you can do to help them out with their issues.  

Does anyone know of any reasons off hand?

2)  Some leave because there's lack of work.  Find out their trade and help them look for jobs.  For those uninterested, find out what interested them in the first place.  Initiate a call to find out who else is interested in the same things.  Not just liberty issues, find out who likes to go fishing and post something asking if people want to go on a porcupine fishing trip!  At the same time, you can find out laws that are unfairly anti-fishing and bring them up during the trip, it might just get their juices flowing again.

Do you think this problem would be solved if more people were "plugged in" to the Free State Project community?

3)  Find out what about the movement is bad to them.  I've often felt that this movement wasn't actually for me, it was for other types of libertarians.  Find out where these people lie in their thoughts and connect them to others that are looking to be active on the same issues.  

This is to you, FreeStyle: What type of libertarian are you? Why do you feel that it's not for you? What would change it?
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: rossby on November 17, 2009, 05:56:52 pm
Quote
I mentioned the Sponsor a Highway project on Route 286, which thousands of out of state beach goers use every month to come to Hampton and Seabrook Beaches.  Instead of disallowing the use of the Free State Project name on that sign, the Board should allow it.  So, my advice/suggestion is to allow it, rather than forbid or discourage in state advertising.

I agree with this statement.

Does anyone know what happened there more specifically? I don't see why someone said don't do it...
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: RichW on November 17, 2009, 06:03:12 pm
1)  have movers elect new board members.  Possibly at a conference like Porcfest or Liberty Forum.  This should be open to movers and would show prospective movers attending that once they settle, they too can decide which liberty lovers they want to steer the direction of the FSP.  (Since the direction should mostly be the same goal of the organization, this shouldn't be too difficult. .. the organization is about moving people to NH.  If there are other suggestions for other states and etc. . . those should be reserved for a new organization NOT the FSP)

...

2)  Let movers decide on how they would like the money spent.  Some movers might feel that they're no longer important to the movement since they arrived.  Some might be frustrated with how the money is spent.  I really don't know how it gets decided.  The board should be the ones to put up the best ideas and the members should be the ones deciding where it goes

The money is raised and effort done by movers, non-movers, and friends alike. Why should the movers have sole control of it?

I concur.  No one is required to move until 20,000 have signed up.  Older members, such as myself, often need substantially more time to rearrange their affairs in order to move.  If I were 20 years old, with nothing but a few possessions, no complicated business and real estate holdings, no kids, no aging parents in need of care and other circumstances, I'd have been there 3 years ago.

I'm all for making decision making more democratic.  But, that means including ALL members.  Friends?  Hmmm, that is a tougher one.  I suppose they should be included if they contribute money.  In fact, that may be a way to garner more contributions..."if you contribute at least $X per year to the FSP, you will have a vote in how the budget is spent."
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: FreeStyle on November 17, 2009, 07:27:47 pm
I'm not going to re-quote everything lol:

BD+Rich:  You make good points on who gets control, I guess it shouldn't just be movers.  I think, as an outsider for now, that someone might be more inclined to move faster if they had a chance to vote on things once they did so.  I suppose it's not about moving fastest, it's about moving once 20k people sign up.  That's just something I keep forgetting.

I've seen only one discussion on the copyright of the porcupine logo.  I would agree with you about advertising on places like Stormfront and how that might not be what the board wants.  I would like to suggest, however, that many of us held very disgusting and vile ideas on race, sexual orientation, religion, etc on some occasions in our lives.  At the same time very loose principles of liberty still shine through, and it took moving towards liberty to break me of those disgusting chains that bound me to worrying about stupid differences in humans.

as for the question to me, I am a voluntaryist.  At certain times I felt the movement was too libertarian for me and that there weren't others that still wanted some forms of big government.  Like anyone I've had my "pets" that only the government could do.  More recently, I've felt that many in the movement were being blatantly un-principled in manners, to the point where I could no longer even read some of the comments.   I've since realized that I'm not really going to let it bother me and thus, I'm here.

as for the Route 286 sign. . . I was to understand there is a FSP sign in Peterborough already.  The information I have is the little provided by Max earlier in this thread, take that as you will.

I do think more problems would be solved with more communication, either by email, facebook, or snail mail.  I like facebook updates on big information.  Just my two cents.
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: rossby on November 17, 2009, 07:43:28 pm
BD+Rich:  You make good points on who gets control, I guess it shouldn't just be movers.  I think, as an outsider for now, that someone might be more inclined to move faster if they had a chance to vote on things once they did so.  I suppose it's not about moving fastest, it's about moving once 20k people sign up.  That's just something I keep forgetting.

What do you think if there were another organization, separate from the FSP, that was focused on providing "services" to people who had already made the move?

I've seen only one discussion on the copyright of the porcupine logo.  I would agree with you about advertising on places like Stormfront and how that might not be what the board wants.  I would like to suggest, however, that many of us held very disgusting and vile ideas on race, sexual orientation, religion, etc on some occasions in our lives.  At the same time very loose principles of liberty still shine through, and it took moving towards liberty to break me of those disgusting chains that bound me to worrying about stupid differences in humans.

Certainly. And there are people there who will, someday, see the light.

But I think it's the guilt by association that "we" are more worried about. For example, right now CNN is running a 3-part series on militia movements in America (which the FSP is NOT). But if you look at the general public's responses to those articles, many seem to be assuming (without any particular reason) that a great deal of those militia-types are overt racists and there motivation is racial. Which is ridiculous.

You can't stop the public from being wrong factually, but you can avoid associating with people who will give others the wrong idea. It's not a strictly yes-no question I don't think, and that's where all the participants' opinions come in handy.

as for the question to me, I am a voluntaryist.  At certain times I felt the movement was too libertarian for me and that there weren't others that still wanted some forms of big government.  Like anyone I've had my "pets" that only the government could do.  More recently, I've felt that many in the movement were being blatantly un-principled in manners, to the point where I could no longer even read some of the comments.   I've since realized that I'm not really going to let it bother me and thus, I'm here.

I don't like nit-picking over the terms too much. Voluntaryists and Libertarians are both libertarian so far as I care: they are both more concerned with liberty than the status quo.

I do think more problems would be solved with more communication, either by email, facebook, or snail mail.  I like facebook updates on big information.  Just my two cents.

If there were a print publication that included a bunch of different things: updates, articles, directories, calendars, etc. would you pay a small fee for that? Like $16 a year?
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: anon37268573 on November 17, 2009, 10:08:07 pm
BD+Rich:  You make good points on who gets control, I guess it shouldn't just be movers.  I think, as an outsider for now, that someone might be more inclined to move faster if they had a chance to vote on things once they did so.  I suppose it's not about moving fastest, it's about moving once 20k people sign up.  That's just something I keep forgetting.

What do you think if there were another organization, separate from the FSP, that was focused on providing "services" to people who had already made the move?

I really like this idea.  Perhaps, just call it the "Freestaters".  I would suggest keeping "Free State" in the name so that publicity for either organizations can benefit both.  Many people in New Hampshire are familiar with the "Free State Project".  But, "porc" doesn't generate the association for them.

Most of the press in the NH papers tends to be about things like the hats in the court rooms, the couch, drug activity, and various weapons related incidents that sound frightening and unsettling.  A "Freestater" organization could issue press releases about porcs doing really good things that benefit everyone like running for office to reduce taxes or starting businesses that employ local people.  I'd say a majority of people in NH know about porc involvement in that dentist's armed tax stand-off with her schizophrenic husband.  But, how many regular people know about the jobs that Murphy's Taproom created or that its founder was one of the 40 under 40 top business people in Manchester a few years ago?

It would really help us to build a brand around benefiting the locals that people could be proud to be involved in.  One of the reasons that I use "anon" on these forms is because I don't want to be associated with the Marijuana/drug activity and positions of many porcs, the antagonizing of police officers, or the weapons issues that keep cropping up (like people getting pulled over wearing a bullet proof vest and having guns loaded with hollow point bullets).  Both of my parents were cops - I really feel for those guys on some of the stuff that porcs have been putting them through.

         - anon
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: maxxoccupancy on November 17, 2009, 11:39:26 pm
Everyone just move
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: madness! on November 18, 2009, 12:17:49 am
not that easy for everyone... NH school would be about 5 times as much as it is for me now.
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: rossby on November 18, 2009, 12:33:17 am
Constructive comments, please.

Mad, why's it 5x as much?
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: Dreepa on November 18, 2009, 12:40:46 am
Quote
I mentioned the Sponsor a Highway project on Route 286, which thousands of out of state beach goers use every month to come to Hampton and Seabrook Beaches.  Instead of disallowing the use of the Free State Project name on that sign, the Board should allow it.  So, my advice/suggestion is to allow it, rather than forbid or discourage in state advertising.

I agree with this statement.

Does anyone know what happened there more specifically? I don't see why someone said don't do it...

I said don't do it.

The FSP doesn't advertise in NH.
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: Dreepa on November 18, 2009, 12:41:51 am
Constructive comments, please.

Mad, why's it 5x as much?

My guess is that where he lives (FLA I think)... it is subsidized by the state much more so then UNH is subsidized by state of NH.
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: FreeStyle on November 18, 2009, 06:41:07 am
would the FSP sue someone over putting up an adopt a highway sign?
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: "Hagrid" on November 18, 2009, 10:46:10 am
The FSP is a DOocracy: those who do have control.  If you want to get involved, get involved by doing things that folks want to see done (NOT your ideas, assist someone with help on something they want done).  Once you show you can be counted on, you gain more respect and more responsiblity.  You also learn the behind the scenes info about how the org runs, etc.

We have lots of 'chiefs' and few 'indians', and sadly, too many want to be 'chiefs'.
(Politically incorrect reference, but quite true)
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: rossby on November 18, 2009, 12:14:58 pm
The FSP doesn't advertise in NH.

But the FSP itself wasn't advertising and didn't direct it. Its hands are clean.

If someone wants to be gung-ho about the FSP in a peaceful manner, I have no desire to stop them.
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: maxxoccupancy on November 18, 2009, 02:29:27 pm
would the FSP sue someone over putting up an adopt a highway sign?

Perhaps not, but the Kieth and Stuff (global mod) insisted that the Board would not (and has not) grant permission for in state advertising or use of its name.  I respect their decision, though I don't agree with it.  When advertisers were called for, I offered to buy and ad in the FSP Newsletter for the Next 1,000 campaign.  Not only did the Board refuse, but Board members have gone on record stating emphatically that the Next 1,000 is not endorsed by the Board (the First 1,000 was).  I've even been told (through the rumor mill--not great with details) that the Board is telling people that the Next 1,000 is my project alone, which is certainly not true.  Ian Bernard also repeated this misstatement on air on FTL, and I have never heard any effort to correct this.  As a correction, dozens of people were involved in the creation/discussion of N1K, and over a dozen liberty activists have done work on it.

"DoOcracy" is right, but when people make misstatements about these things--then refuse to retract those statements when they are corrected (or refuse to listen to the correction), then there's bound to be a loss in credibility.  One of the people mentioned in this post (I won't name names) has also repeated the "liar" accusation so many times that people in his neck of the woods believe and repeat it--not having an actual lie to refer to... though that's for another thread (which was rightfully locked).  Consequently, the debate over how many businesses closed at what time was never resolved, and may never be reopened...  (though the fact that so many stores are open late is one of the reasons that the seacoast has such a decent job market--especially in summer.)

My point is that there was no effort by the accusers to correct their accusations.  The irony that those who were making accusations of inaccuracy and deceit were themselves not being accurate or careful with their own remarks.  Those careless with such important issues should exercise more discretion in their remarks about others.

That concludes my exposition on the deleterious effects of flame wars and personal attacks, which should never be allowed to run loose on a forum like this.
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: Dreepa on November 18, 2009, 02:52:18 pm
The FSP doesn't advertise in NH.

But the FSP itself wasn't advertising and didn't direct it. Its hands are clean.

If someone wants to be gung-ho about the FSP in a peaceful manner, I have no desire to stop them.

so you would be ok with someone buying an ad using the FSP logo on Stormfront?

The FSP does not Recruit or advertise in NH... it is pretty simple.  We want people to MOVE to NH.  If that road is a good road (and I don't doubt that for a second)... get one on the MA border... and makes something clever that says... 1 mile north there is no sales tax... FSP or something.
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: Dreepa on November 18, 2009, 02:53:03 pm
The FSP is a DOocracy: those who do have control.  If you want to get involved, get involved by doing things that folks want to see done (NOT your ideas, assist someone with help on something they want done).  Once you show you can be counted on, you gain more respect and more responsiblity.  You also learn the behind the scenes info about how the org runs, etc.

We have lots of 'chiefs' and few 'indians', and sadly, too many want to be 'chiefs'.
(Politically incorrect reference, but quite true)

QFT  except for the politically correctness part...  :P
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: rossby on November 18, 2009, 03:40:13 pm
The FSP doesn't advertise in NH.

But the FSP itself wasn't advertising and didn't direct it. Its hands are clean.

If someone wants to be gung-ho about the FSP in a peaceful manner, I have no desire to stop them.

so you would be ok with someone buying an ad using the FSP logo on Stormfront?

Nope, in the strictest sense ya' got me.

But I don't think every participant's enthusiasm should suffer because of what some ignorant group--who we don't even want to affiliate with us--might hypothetically possibly could do someday maybe.

The FSP should just state a simple policy: here are the circumstances in which the FSP will "take action" against an unapproved use of the FSP's name or logo. And list them. It'll probably be short. And I guarantee associating those items with groups or activities that foment racial hatred will be the first to be forbidden. And, in all likelihood, will probably be agreed to unanimously.

This lets all the world know, with certainty, what's allowed and what's not. We keep it simple. We keep it flexible. We let the massive group of participants we're trying to find, do what they do best. And if the policy ever creates a problem, actual or threatened, we can deal with it if ever arises.

The FSP does not Recruit or advertise in NH... it is pretty simple.

The FSP proper never has to and probably never will. The real question is whether participants should fear the FSP's disapproval and retaliation.

If that road is a good road (and I don't doubt that for a second)... get one on the MA border... and makes something clever that says... 1 mile north there is no sales tax... FSP or something.

I like it.
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: FreeStyle on November 18, 2009, 04:33:14 pm
I like the idea too, of having a sign on the MA border.  Would it not be good enough to have a sign on a road that MA residents MUST drive through in order to arrive at their businesses and homes?  I'm not talking route 95/93 where there are multiples of ways to arrive at your destination besides the highway itself. . . but Route 286 is one of those roads that any Salisbury resident who lives at the beach most likely would take to arrive at their homes and businesses.

I will continue to call out lies and misrepresentations as I see them.  I'm not willing to rehash any arguments about the definition of the word "late" or what time "late" means.  I will private message anyone who wants to know hard evidence of what time some consider "late".  Now, on to the definition of "is" lol

For the record, Dreepa, I was not challenging you nor anyone else about what you might or might not do to someone who decided to act in whatever manner they wanted but merely I wanted to know the board's thoughts on what they might do if someone decided to use the Free State Project name in a manner that others might deem inappropriate.  I do not intend on doing a regular cleanup of Route 286 with or without the FSP banner.  I will leave cleanup projects to Max who has done a spectacular job being a good neighbor and cleaning up the roadsides in his section of town.  I have heard from a certain business in fact that they saw a man cleaning up the side of the road.  This wasn't advertising for the FSP, it was a good neighbor being a good and kind human being to others and also making sure his neighborhood was clean and litter free.  It would be good PR for some liberty organization to have some sort of advertisement letting others in the neighborhood know why and who this person or persons is doing such a neighborly (and often rare) cleanup.  Unfortunately, so I hear, a Free State Project flag would not be a good advertisement since it resides over the imaginary line known as the state border.
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: anon37268573 on November 18, 2009, 11:03:29 pm
so you would be ok with someone buying an ad using the FSP logo on Stormfront?

I'm ok with it.  An ad is an ad.  I want people who will reduce the role of government.  I don't care if they're racist or not as long as they're libertarian and won't try and force their beliefs on me.  It's not like all of a sudden 20,000 people won't move because a few confused white guys who don't like other races, due to being taxed to support them their whole life, might be around in the state somewhere.  Racists are a fact of life, they're around everywhere in every state.  India, the most vocal proponent for H1B expansion and American multiculturalism, is the most racist country on the planet.  It has a cast system!

Stormfront is a strawman.  Most of what stormfront is about is welfare benefits for illegal aliens and government oppression.  All of the race related language in the FSP documents seems to be about trying to mitigate the hot potato of welfare benefits for illegals.  There should be no welfare in the first place - no matter the race of the recipient.  God forbid, anyone should think that the FSP suggests that anyone who sneaks into America from the 3rd world shouldn't get free American food, free American housing, and free American healthcare, from the American Government.

Come on, drop the racist strawman and just admit that we don't want people in NH who will take welfare benefits or won't work.

I don't want anyone who will accept Gov't "benefits" living in NH.

    - anon
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: rossby on November 18, 2009, 11:34:39 pm
Come on, drop the racist strawman and just admit that we don't want people in NH who will take welfare benefits or won't work.

As someone else noted, there are potential converts who would likely give up their "racist ways". I know there are. There are a lot of people drawn to that sort of thing, not because they're the "true believers", but because they just need a group of people who share a similar set of beliefs--like those you note at the tail end there. So they put up with that fluff.

But there's another issue of the FSP's image and not being cast organizationally by certain dishonest journalists--to use the word "journalist" in the loosest sense possible. You can't really stop ignorant people from doing unkind things. But you can deprive them of anecdotal evidence.

REGARDLESS of any racism issues, I think the FSP should just be explicit on the policy.
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: Dreepa on November 19, 2009, 11:52:56 am
I wasn't trying to use a strawman.

BD Ross... the policy is:

THE FSP DOES NOT ADVERTISE IN NH.

Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: rossby on November 19, 2009, 01:14:13 pm
I wasn't trying to use a strawman.

BD Ross... the policy is:

THE FSP DOES NOT ADVERTISE IN NH.

If that's the wording you want to stick to... ;)
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: FreeStyle on November 19, 2009, 03:00:48 pm
I wasn't trying to use a strawman.

BD Ross... the policy is:

THE FSP DOES NOT ADVERTISE IN NH.



YOU DO NOT TALK ABOUT FIGHT CLUB lol
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: Ad on November 20, 2009, 06:29:48 am
I wasn't trying to use a strawman.

BD Ross... the policy is:

THE FSP DOES NOT ADVERTISE IN NH.



Why not? Just an honest question. If you have a tourist heavy area it makes sense to put a "Like your stay here? Move for good! FSP" or similar sign up.

Is this a rule for rules sake or was there some controversy that required the creation of said rule? Sure it doesn't make sense to advertise in NH in most instances, but colleges and tourist traps seem like fair game.
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: Dreepa on November 20, 2009, 07:41:11 am
I wasn't trying to use a strawman.

BD Ross... the policy is:

THE FSP DOES NOT ADVERTISE IN NH.



Why not? Just an honest question. If you have a tourist heavy area it makes sense to put a "Like your stay here? Move for good! FSP" or similar sign up.

Is this a rule for rules sake or was there some controversy that required the creation of said rule? Sure it doesn't make sense to advertise in NH in most instances, but colleges and tourist traps seem like fair game.


there was lots of controversy back when it happened.
but basically the goal is to move to NH and 'fit in'... if we are still advertising here it just 'blurs' the line.  Then people would want the FSP to take a stand on X.  X is a pure libertarian position surely the FSP can make a stand on it....etc etc etc...
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: maxxoccupancy on November 20, 2009, 11:56:18 am
The FSP doesn't advertise in NH.

But the FSP itself wasn't advertising and didn't direct it. Its hands are clean.

If someone wants to be gung-ho about the FSP in a peaceful manner, I have no desire to stop them.

so you would be ok with someone buying an ad using the FSP logo on Stormfront?

The FSP does not Recruit or advertise in NH... it is pretty simple.  We want people to MOVE to NH.  If that road is a good road (and I don't doubt that for a second)... get one on the MA border... and makes something clever that says... 1 mile north there is no sales tax... FSP or something.

Come down and drive on 286.  Are we expected to get New Hampshire volunteers to go clean up out of state highways just to adhere to this rule?  Is it okay if we adopt the road on the Mass side of the border (with the exact same drivers) and put up an FSP sign?  If so, why not the section up here?

nhliberty.org got the sign.  Getting into all of the technical minutia between fsp this and fsp that.  We should absolutely advertise fsp oriented litter pickups and volunteering in New Hampshire.  Why should those viewed as noisy, negative, or demanding by locals shout out the fsp name, while those of us who do helpful volunteer work have to avoid the term.  How will the locals view the fsp if that continues?
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: Dreepa on November 20, 2009, 12:33:39 pm


Come down and drive on 286.  Are we expected to get New Hampshire volunteers to go clean up out of state highways just to adhere to this rule?  Is it okay if we adopt the road on the Mass side of the border (with the exact same drivers) and put up an FSP sign?  If so, why not the section up here?

nhliberty.org got the sign.  Getting into all of the technical minutia between fsp this and fsp that.  We should absolutely advertise fsp oriented litter pickups and volunteering in New Hampshire.  Why should those viewed as noisy, negative, or demanding by locals shout out the fsp name, while those of us who do helpful volunteer work have to avoid the term.  How will the locals view the fsp if that continues?

Because the FSP doesn't 'do anything' in NH (2 exceptions Liberty Forum and Porcfest)... why?  because the FSP is an org to get people to MOVE to NH.
What if you got a road section in the name of the FSP and didn't clean it? 

Do it on the MA side of the border.
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: rossby on November 20, 2009, 12:58:57 pm
Because the FSP doesn't 'do anything' in NH...

The FSP ain't doin' it ;)
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: maxxoccupancy on November 20, 2009, 01:07:33 pm
I won't be doing much on the Mass side of anything.

I'm helping NHLA,  doing seacoast stuff, running jeffersonforum.net, out of state recruiting, advertising for the Next 1,000, writing letters to the editors, emailing State Reps, running a porc manor, and helping new people get into New Hampshire.

If the Board is going to give me any red tape on anything, my time goes to other things.  They won't let me advertise the Next 1,000 in the FSP Newsletter or use their name on the Sponsor a Highway sign.  Both of those efforts have gone elsewhere.
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: Dreepa on November 20, 2009, 02:37:16 pm
I won't be doing much on the Mass side of anything.

I'm helping NHLA,  doing seacoast stuff, running jeffersonforum.net, out of state recruiting, advertising for the Next 1,000, writing letters to the editors, emailing State Reps, running a porc manor, and helping new people get into New Hampshire.

If the Board is going to give me any red tape on anything, my time goes to other things.  They won't let me advertise the Next 1,000 in the FSP Newsletter or use their name on the Sponsor a Highway sign.  Both of those efforts have gone elsewhere.

great as long as there is no FSP sign in NH.
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: FreeStyle on November 20, 2009, 10:14:30 pm
eh just do whatever you want no one's going to do anything about it.  If you feel like the mass residents who drive through NH for 3 or 4 minutes want to see a sign for the FSP then follow your heart.
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: rossby on November 20, 2009, 10:28:14 pm
Sounds like the policy needs a cursory review.
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: Dreepa on November 21, 2009, 10:08:46 am
Sounds like the policy needs a cursory review.

Yup... I just looked it over.... still a fine policy.
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: madness! on November 21, 2009, 10:12:22 am
maybe some thing like this could have been settled in PMs and not ironically derail a thread. just a suggestion. for improvement.
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: Dreepa on November 21, 2009, 10:16:35 am
maybe some thing like this could have been settled in PMs and not ironically derail a thread. just a suggestion. for improvement.
+10
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: rossby on November 21, 2009, 06:49:55 pm
If there were a print publication that included a bunch of different things: updates, articles, directories, calendars, etc. would you pay a small fee for that? Like $16 a year?

Beuller?
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: madness! on November 21, 2009, 10:43:57 pm
You guys have shirts for sale here for like 15 or so bucks. they are a great way to turn people into walking billboards and help get the word out. but it is kind of a bear to ship it and stuff so it ends up around 20 bucks or so to get one.

But! you can get medium quality t-shirts by using iron ons bought at a michaels or similar craft store. sooo if you had a section of the website or forum with directions and files ready to print (they would just be the logo, backwards) people could make there own shirts for about 5 dollars (a shirt is 2.50, and the paper is ten bucks for ten.) of coarse, you would lose out on any profits you make from merchandising and i am not sure about how you feel about putting your logos up for free distribution. just a thought.
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: maxxoccupancy on November 21, 2009, 11:59:12 pm
I won't be doing much on the Mass side of anything.

I'm helping NHLA,  doing seacoast stuff, running jeffersonforum.net, out of state recruiting, advertising for the Next 1,000, writing letters to the editors, emailing State Reps, running a porc manor, and helping new people get into New Hampshire.

If the Board is going to give me any red tape on anything, my time goes to other things.  They won't let me advertise the Next 1,000 in the FSP Newsletter or use their name on the Sponsor a Highway sign.  Both of those efforts have gone elsewhere.

great as long as there is no FSP sign in NH.

Boy, the last thing we need is hundreds of thousands of proliberty locals joining forces with us to throw out statist politicians and turn New Hampshire around.

;D
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: madness! on November 22, 2009, 01:50:40 am
I think that the idea is that they want people from out of state to move into NH. Liberty minded people in NH that join the FSP can artificially inflate the member count. the statement of intent is utterly meaningless if the person is already in NH. plus, people who move in from out of state show a real dedication to liberty, as opposed to people inside the state signing up just for shits (not to belittle liberty activists in NH...) there are plenty of libertarian organizations in NH for NH natives to join. the FSP does not have american express black card to waste money advertising an organization to try and get people to move to NH in NH. its like military recruiters hanging signs in the barracks (well, not exactly. but close). also, i think the goal is to get liberty minded people to move to NH, not to convince people to become libertarians? JTFC!
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: rossby on November 22, 2009, 01:57:58 am
Everyone knows the point is to move people to New Hampshire.
The point is whether people should be able to promote a cause they believe in.
I'm not arguing the pro-cons again here. But I think the right choice is obvious.
(And, fyi, NH natives are not counted.)

Please, no more discussion on that particular policy. What else we got?
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: madness! on November 22, 2009, 12:09:16 pm
maybe bagofeyebrows could be given her own forum to rant on.
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: adirondeau on November 22, 2009, 12:15:51 pm
Why doesn't the FSP advertise in NH? It can't be because all NH residents are already members of the FSP, or that all NH residents know about the FSP...


My wife an I plan on visiting next spring/summer with our kids to check out the state and see if it is for us. If I can't find a job or a business to purchase, I won't be moving.

Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: rossby on November 22, 2009, 01:36:05 pm
My wife an I plan on visiting next spring/summer with our kids to check out the state and see if it is for us. If I can't find a job or a business to purchase, I won't be moving.

What sort of business? Do you need a broker?
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: rossby on November 22, 2009, 01:37:01 pm
maybe bagofeyebrows could be given her own forum to rant on.

If you don't have sincere suggestions, please leave this thread alone until you do.
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: anon37268573 on November 22, 2009, 01:52:57 pm
My wife an I plan on visiting next spring/summer with our kids to check out the state and see if it is for us. If I can't find a job or a business to purchase, I won't be moving.

Just in case you haven't see it, I occasionally take a look at what's listed in NH on BizBuySell website:

   http://www.bizbuysell.com/

There are 218 listings right now.

   - anon
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: John Edward Mercier on November 22, 2009, 02:48:00 pm
Why doesn't the FSP advertise in NH? It can't be because all NH residents are already members of the FSP, or that all NH residents know about the FSP...


My wife an I plan on visiting next spring/summer with our kids to check out the state and see if it is for us. If I can't find a job or a business to purchase, I won't be moving.


The mission of the FSP is to get people to move to NH, so the residents are people that already live here.
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: Dreepa on November 22, 2009, 03:05:28 pm
I won't be doing much on the Mass side of anything.

I'm helping NHLA,  doing seacoast stuff, running jeffersonforum.net, out of state recruiting, advertising for the Next 1,000, writing letters to the editors, emailing State Reps, running a porc manor, and helping new people get into New Hampshire.

If the Board is going to give me any red tape on anything, my time goes to other things.  They won't let me advertise the Next 1,000 in the FSP Newsletter or use their name on the Sponsor a Highway sign.  Both of those efforts have gone elsewhere.

great as long as there is no FSP sign in NH.

Boy, the last thing we need is hundreds of thousands of proliberty locals joining forces with us to throw out statist politicians and turn New Hampshire around.

;D

max you just don't get it.

I work with LOCAL proliberty people all the time.. it has nothing to do with the FSP.
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: sj on November 22, 2009, 03:08:32 pm
What Dreepa said.
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: adirondeau on November 22, 2009, 09:13:05 pm
My wife an I plan on visiting next spring/summer with our kids to check out the state and see if it is for us. If I can't find a job or a business to purchase, I won't be moving.

Just in case you haven't see it, I occasionally take a look at what's listed in NH on BizBuySell website:

   http://www.bizbuysell.com/

There are 218 listings right now.

   - anon

Thanks,
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: adirondeau on November 22, 2009, 09:16:46 pm
Why doesn't the FSP advertise in NH? It can't be because all NH residents are already members of the FSP, or that all NH residents know about the FSP...


My wife an I plan on visiting next spring/summer with our kids to check out the state and see if it is for us. If I can't find a job or a business to purchase, I won't be moving.


The mission of the FSP is to get people to move to NH, so the residents are people that already live here.

hence the word resident...

but again, why ignore people in NH that could be turned on to the FSP? is the point only to get people to move to NH? I thought the point was to get 20,000 liberty activists to move to NH to help educate and move people to pursue liberty. If that is the goal, a little in state advertising wouldn't hurt.
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: Dreepa on November 22, 2009, 09:41:57 pm


hence the word resident...

but again, why ignore people in NH that could be turned on to the FSP? is the point only to get people to move to NH? I thought the point was to get 20,000 liberty activists to move to NH to help educate and move people to pursue liberty. If that is the goal, a little in state advertising wouldn't hurt.

Because the goal of the FSP is to get 20,000 people to MOVE to NH.
They are already here... so if they are here... the goal is to have them join in a LOCAL group that is to their liking. (whether it be political or otherwise)
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: adirondeau on November 22, 2009, 09:58:51 pm


hence the word resident...

but again, why ignore people in NH that could be turned on to the FSP? is the point only to get people to move to NH? I thought the point was to get 20,000 liberty activists to move to NH to help educate and move people to pursue liberty. If that is the goal, a little in state advertising wouldn't hurt.

Because the goal of the FSP is to get 20,000 people to MOVE to NH.
They are already here... so if they are here... the goal is to have them join in a LOCAL group that is to their liking. (whether it be political or otherwise)

I see what you are saying, I don't necessarily agree that advertising in state is counterproductive, but do as you wish.
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: rossby on November 23, 2009, 04:17:05 pm
What if the FSP can swing general organizational discounts on the following for visitors and movers:

1. hotels;
2. vehicle rental;
3. moving trucks/services.

Is this something that would/could be useful?
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: Dreepa on November 24, 2009, 08:53:37 am
What if the FSP can swing general organizational discounts on the following for visitors and movers:

1. hotels;
2. vehicle rental;
3. moving trucks/services.

Is this something that would/could be useful?

yes.... I did post (a long time back)  a discount code with 'HELP U MOVE'...
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: kyfornow on November 24, 2009, 09:34:58 am
Personally speaking - I intend to bring the clothes and other formalties that I can fit in the truck and bring myself and the dogs.  In the worse case scenario I can even sleep in the back of the truck because it's big enough to serve as a hotel/moving truck/vehicle

But for most everybody else, and by that I mean normal people, I guarantee having acccess to discounts on those services would be more than helpful.


Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: maxxoccupancy on November 24, 2009, 05:43:44 pm
I won't be doing much on the Mass side of anything.

I'm helping NHLA,  doing seacoast stuff, running jeffersonforum.net, out of state recruiting, advertising for the Next 1,000, writing letters to the editors, emailing State Reps, running a porc manor, and helping new people get into New Hampshire.

If the Board is going to give me any red tape on anything, my time goes to other things.  They won't let me advertise the Next 1,000 in the FSP Newsletter or use their name on the Sponsor a Highway sign.  Both of those efforts have gone elsewhere.

great as long as there is no FSP sign in NH.

Boy, the last thing we need is hundreds of thousands of proliberty locals joining forces with us to throw out statist politicians and turn New Hampshire around.

;D

max you just don't get it.

I work with LOCAL proliberty people all the time.. it has nothing to do with the FSP.

Some see the fsp in the literal, SOI sense, some see it as a piece of a larger liberty movement.  Are you saying that I don't get it?  Is that an appropriate, civil comment?  I do get it.  I do understand that different people see this whole thing differently.  I just don't waste time arguing small details.  I choose to work towards the larger liberty movement.

That includes getting locals involved.
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: Dreepa on November 24, 2009, 08:06:55 pm
I won't be doing much on the Mass side of anything.

I'm helping NHLA,  doing seacoast stuff, running jeffersonforum.net, out of state recruiting, advertising for the Next 1,000, writing letters to the editors, emailing State Reps, running a porc manor, and helping new people get into New Hampshire.

If the Board is going to give me any red tape on anything, my time goes to other things.  They won't let me advertise the Next 1,000 in the FSP Newsletter or use their name on the Sponsor a Highway sign.  Both of those efforts have gone elsewhere.

great as long as there is no FSP sign in NH.

Boy, the last thing we need is hundreds of thousands of proliberty locals joining forces with us to throw out statist politicians and turn New Hampshire around.

;D

max you just don't get it.

I work with LOCAL proliberty people all the time.. it has nothing to do with the FSP.

Some see the fsp in the literal, SOI sense, some see it as a piece of a larger liberty movement.  Are you saying that I don't get it?  Is that an appropriate, civil comment?  I do get it.  I do understand that different people see this whole thing differently.  I just don't waste time arguing small details.  I choose to work towards the larger liberty movement.

That includes getting locals involved.

I don't know if it is civil or not... but you don't get the FSP.

the FSP is about moving to NH.

Working with locals etc etc is about BEING in NH.


I see them as two different animals... and so does the FSP board.
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: rossby on November 24, 2009, 09:45:44 pm
What if the FSP can swing general organizational discounts on the following for visitors and movers:

1. hotels;
2. vehicle rental;
3. moving trucks/services.

Is this something that would/could be useful?

yes.... I did post (a long time back)  a discount code with 'HELP U MOVE'...

This stuff still valid?
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: maxxoccupancy on November 26, 2009, 02:58:11 am
I care deeply about what the FSP movers and New Hampshire locals think.

Never really cared too much for the Board.  They have their ivory tower, and we have our outreach.  They can see things however they want.  I am out there meeting folks and getting involved with the locals every day.

The liberty movement is part of a bigger movement.  I never tried to explain the FSP in technical detail to natives.  I just explained what I felt that the bigger movement was about.
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: FreeStyle on December 02, 2009, 05:54:55 pm
don't sell FSP shirts in NH, only outside of NH or to NH residents who plan on being out of the state for a while.

THE FSP DOES NOT ADVERTISE IN NH.

lol
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: FreeStyle on December 02, 2009, 05:57:12 pm
I have a suggestion for improvement:

An easier way to click that you've moved and give the pertinent info.  I couldn't find it for the life of me on the website.  Someone else told me to email moved@freestateproject.com  and that got bounced back. 

or

sell FSP shirts that give directions on how to let the FSP know you moved and only sell them without FSP logo or info because these will be for people to wear in NH.
Title: Re: Suggestions for Improvement
Post by: sj on December 22, 2009, 05:38:02 pm
I have a suggestion for improvement:

An easier way to click that you've moved and give the pertinent info.  I couldn't find it for the life of me on the website.  Someone else told me to email moved@freestateproject.com  and that got bounced back. 

or

sell FSP shirts that give directions on how to let the FSP know you moved and only sell them without FSP logo or info because these will be for people to wear in NH.

It bounced back because the e-mail is Moved@FreeStateProject.org.  For instructions on the admittedly overly complicated process for updating your address on your own, see my signature.