Free State Project Forum

FSP -- General Discussion => General FSP Discussion => Topic started by: sj on November 06, 2008, 03:35:09 pm

Title: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 06, 2008, 03:35:09 pm
Facebook has the best advertising options I've ever seen.  They allow you to reach people in certain states, between certain ages, in certain levels of schooling, with certain political beliefs AND certain interests. 

Because of the Income Tax vote in MA, I'm thinking an ad targeted to 18-25 year old college students (i.e., mobile people) in MA who are fans of Ron Paul.  We can have the ad targeted to reach ONLY those people and then pay only when those people click the ad.  They would be directed to this page (http://www.freestateproject.org/intro/2008_mass_election) when they click.

I'm starting a chipin to fund this ad (http://fsp.chipin.com/fsp-facebook-ads).  It will cost anywhere from 25 cents to 70 cents per click (but remember that these are very high quality clicks).  Also, we can run ads in Washington DC related to the new random search policy on the DC mass transit system.  We could also run general ads for all the states that are North of Pennsylvania...people are more likely to move within their region.

You can donate at FSP.ChipIn.com (http://fsp.chipin.com/fsp-facebook-ads)

Ad would look something like this (but the details of who we're advertising to would be different of course)

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/fspadvertising/first%20campaign%20%20MA%20Only/facebook.jpg)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Rich Goldman on November 06, 2008, 03:52:32 pm
Great idea.  Which FSP page will this ad be linking to?

Someone match my $36 and let's get this rolling...
    -Rich
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 06, 2008, 04:07:16 pm
Thanks rich!

It will link to this page that I just created: http://www.freestateproject.org/intro/2008_mass_election

Suggestions on content, organization and layout are greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Fishercat on November 06, 2008, 04:15:58 pm
Great idea.  Which FSP page will this ad be linking to?

Someone match my $36 and let's get this rolling...
    -Rich

Done... You're good to go, Seth.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Rich Goldman on November 06, 2008, 04:16:11 pm
Overall, looks good.  Some quick things though:

1) Can't stop the rentFREE movie once it starts.  No media control bar
2) Should mention (though it's probably already known) that NH has no state income or sales tax
3) Should we add a link to www.whynewhampshire.org ?
4) Add to the list of good things about new hampshire it's rating as best overall state, healthiest state, safest state, etc.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 06, 2008, 04:59:17 pm
Overall, looks good.  Some quick things though:

1) Can't stop the rentFREE movie once it starts.  No media control bar
2) Should mention (though it's probably already known) that NH has no state income or sales tax
3) Should we add a link to www.whynewhampshire.org ?
4) Add to the list of good things about new hampshire it's rating as best overall state, healthiest state, safest state, etc.

I can't change the video thing without making it much bigger. 

What I'm up against now is having too much info.  I've edited to make it clear that NH has no income or sales tax.  I can add a link to the updated 101 Reasons, but I can't find a place to put the healthiest and safest state...I feel like there's already too much.

Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 06, 2008, 04:59:27 pm
Great idea.  Which FSP page will this ad be linking to?

Someone match my $36 and let's get this rolling...
    -Rich

Done... You're good to go, Seth.

Thanks!!  :)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Rich Goldman on November 06, 2008, 05:10:39 pm
What about removing "Building without needing permits" and add a line with links at the end saying:  for more reasons, check out Why New Hampshire, the 101 Reasons Brochure, or talk with us on our forum.  You could also probably condense the text in the upper-right box by making the text into links (so you can remove Reters and Union Leader) and removing the separating lines.  Make it just two sentences.  Would the 5 Year video maybe work better at the top?
   -Rich
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sonio on November 06, 2008, 05:15:23 pm
The list of 101 reasons was one of the most compelling things I've read.

I created a FSP flair for my facebook page and it's saved in the flair application for anyone who wants to use their page to advertise for free...   :)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 06, 2008, 05:15:59 pm
What about removing "Building without needing permits" and add a line with links at the end saying:  for more reasons, check out Why New Hampshire, the 101 Reasons Brochure, or talk with us on our forum.  You could also probably condense the text in the upper-right box by making the text into links (so you can remove Reters and Union Leader) and removing the separating lines.  Make it just two sentences.  Would the 5 Year video maybe work better at the top?
   -Rich

I can do that.  The list explains what Free Staters are doing starting with a gerund...I couldn't figure out how to add it to that list in a way consistent with the other bullets so I added it to the bottom left where I had some space.  Tell me what you think of it now and what you think would be better.  I'm open to suggestions.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Rich Goldman on November 06, 2008, 05:28:40 pm
It doesn't look like you're changes have been applied (yet).
   -Rich
P.S.  Do you have Skype?
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 06, 2008, 06:09:47 pm
It doesn't look like you're changes have been applied (yet).
   -Rich
P.S.  Do you have Skype?

I'm pretty sure the changes have been applied.

No, I don't have skype.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Rich Goldman on November 06, 2008, 09:33:38 pm
Ah, I see the changes.  It looks ready to go.  Last (unnecessary) suggestion I'd make though is to add a link somewhere in the main text taking people to post to the FSP forum. 

I look forward to seeing the response/analytics on the ad (am I correct that FB provides these stats?)

Thanks for taking the lead on this :-)
   -Rich
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 06, 2008, 10:06:17 pm
Ah, I see the changes.  It looks ready to go.  Last (unnecessary) suggestion I'd make though is to add a link somewhere in the main text taking people to post to the FSP forum. 

I look forward to seeing the response/analytics on the ad (am I correct that FB provides these stats?)

Thanks for taking the lead on this :-)
   -Rich

I'll try to find a place to link to the forum.  In the past, people haven't clicked a forum link when I provided it.  The page I used as a template (the Ron Paul page I created last year) had links to the forum, but I cut out a bunch of stuff because I thought it was too busy.

I don't know if FB has analytics but I assume they do. This is my first time using FB, but the targeting is so much better than google because you can target by age, education and interests.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 06, 2008, 10:30:10 pm
We've raised $100.  The goal is $350.  That amount of $$ will allow us to reach 500 to 1000 of THE MOST likely libertarians to move.  That is, people who are already close to NH (MA), who are young and in college (mobile), and who are liberty-oriented and interested in Ron Paul.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Neal Conner on November 07, 2008, 04:33:52 pm
You mean we haven't been doing this?  ???
This should be a regular FSP expense that my monthly contribution should be going towards.

Just chipped in $20.
Don't let the facebook flyer campaign stop!  8)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 07, 2008, 04:44:07 pm
Thanks, Neal.  I don't know the finances of the FSP as that's not my department, but I get the impression that any monthly donations  (http://freestateproject.org/volunteer/donate)made can help a lot.

I'm happy to continue to advertise and edit the landing pages as necessary as long as the funding is there.  With your contribution, we've raise $140 of our $350 goal.  If we raise more, I'll advertise as long as possible and expand the advertising campaign to cover all of New England instead of just Massachusetts.  I haven't started the campaign quite yet as I need to see how much we raise before I can decide how to implement my advertising plan.

If the interest is there, I'll continue to do things like this.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Dreepa on November 07, 2008, 05:51:04 pm
Thanks, Neal.  I don't know the finances of the FSP as that's not my department, but I get the impression that any monthly donations  (http://freestateproject.org/volunteer/donate)made can help a lot.

I'm happy to continue to advertise and edit the landing pages as necessary as long as the funding is there.  With your contribution, we've raise $140 of our $350 goal.  If we raise more, I'll advertise as long as possible and expand the advertising campaign to cover all of New England instead of just Massachusetts.  I haven't started the campaign quite yet as I need to see how much we raise before I can decide how to implement my advertising plan.

If the interest is there, I'll continue to do things like this.
Start now in MA. Spend the $140 now....
We can start asking for more.
Also submit an article for the FSP newsletter.

Seth ROCKS!
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 07, 2008, 07:31:36 pm
I'll try to get around to getting an article together for the FSP Newsletter
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Dreepa on November 07, 2008, 08:00:23 pm
I'll try to get around to getting an article together for the FSP Newsletter
Not due until the 12th so no worries.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 07, 2008, 08:13:26 pm
I'll try to get around to getting an article together for the FSP Newsletter
Not due until the 12th so no worries.

I'll start the campaign tomorrow.  I've got the Multi-State Professional Responsibility Exam tomorrow so I don't have time tonight.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Neal Conner on November 07, 2008, 09:28:42 pm
(Shoo! Get off the forums and go study then.)

Could we put this ChipIn on the front page, as has been done before?
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Dreepa on November 07, 2008, 09:29:39 pm
(Shoo! Get off the forums and go study then.)

Could we put this ChipIn on the front page, as has been done before?
I was just thinking the same thing.
He did post it on the blogs so it did get on the front page but it will eventually roll off. (then resubmit it so it goes back on  >:D)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sonio on November 07, 2008, 11:03:35 pm
Facebookers can also use features about their pages to advertise for the FSP for free.

If anyone sees a page plastered with FSP stuff, that is me ;)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 08, 2008, 04:23:31 pm
Launched the campaign just now and the ad is under review.  I budgeted so that we would expend all the money we have now within 7 days.

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/fspadvertising/first%20campaign%20%20MA%20Only/Day1.jpg)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Porcupine Realtor on November 08, 2008, 05:29:47 pm
I'm in.  ChippedIn, that is.  Thanks Seth, for all your activism.  You rock.  When do you find time to study the law books?
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Dreepa on November 08, 2008, 10:25:18 pm
Also I heard that someone just made an 'event' in Facebook for the Liberty Forum... go RSVP or 'whatever' on facebook for the Liberty Forum.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 09, 2008, 02:26:08 pm
For all the people I haven't thanked personally, thank you so much!  Your contribution hasn't gone unnoticed.

Good news!  We just got our FIRST confirmed signup from the ads!   One thing to keep in mind: we won't know the exact number of signups we get from this because often people signup the day after they click or something so we can't track it.  The only way I know we got a signup was because the person put in the "where did you hear about us" box: "facebook ad."

The following image has all the relevant information.  Note that we're currently paying only 33 cents per click and at this rate will not spend the $200 we've raised within a week.  That may change.  If not, I will probably expand the ad to a few more New England states.  In the mean time for one week, the 3,000 18-25 year olds in MA who like Ayn Rand, Ron Paul, libertarian, and campaign for liberty will see this ad pretty much non-stop for a week (and remember, when they look at the ad, it's free.  We only pay when they click).

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/fspadvertising/first%20campaign%20%20MA%20Only/day2.jpg)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Fishercat on November 09, 2008, 07:22:52 pm
Also I heard that someone just made an 'event' in Facebook for the Liberty Forum... go RSVP or 'whatever' on facebook for the Liberty Forum.

There seems to be two.   Which one is the real one?
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: freedomroad on November 09, 2008, 07:37:39 pm
Also I heard that someone just made an 'event' in Facebook for the Liberty Forum... go RSVP or 'whatever' on facebook for the Liberty Forum.

There seems to be two.   Which one is the real one?

One is from the FSP and one is not.  The one from the FSP is the real one.  Either one is ok, though.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Dreepa on November 09, 2008, 09:01:46 pm
Also I heard that someone just made an 'event' in Facebook for the Liberty Forum... go RSVP or 'whatever' on facebook for the Liberty Forum.

There seems to be two.   Which one is the real one?
Got me... I have never been on facebook.
I will find out if the other one is legit (from the person who emailed me)... I am willing to bet it is legit...
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: freedomroad on November 09, 2008, 09:06:19 pm
Also I heard that someone just made an 'event' in Facebook for the Liberty Forum... go RSVP or 'whatever' on facebook for the Liberty Forum.

There seems to be two.   Which one is the real one?
Got me... I have never been on facebook.
I will find out if the other one is legit (from the person who emailed me)... I am willing to bet it is legit...

It's just an event.  It has the correct dates.  It cannot really be fake.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Neal Conner on November 10, 2008, 09:45:01 am
Also I heard that someone just made an 'event' in Facebook for the Liberty Forum... go RSVP or 'whatever' on facebook for the Liberty Forum.

Heard? Get with the times man! Join facebook already.

I created the official Liberty Forum event hosted by the FSP facebook group (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2204983906). That was only after I experimented to see if the other, independently-created event could be changed to be hosted by the FSP group. It appears that facebook doesn't allow that, which is why I had to create another one.

Thankfully, facebook seems to have since fixed that bug. We're now combining the events, and directing people from one to the other.
This is the one you should RSVP to: New Hampshire Liberty Forum 2009 (http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=29051038092)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Dreepa on November 10, 2008, 10:27:03 am
Also I heard that someone just made an 'event' in Facebook for the Liberty Forum... go RSVP or 'whatever' on facebook for the Liberty Forum.

Heard? Get with the times man! Join facebook already.

I created the official Liberty Forum event (http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=26444084882) hosted by the FSP facebook group (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2204983906). That was only after I experimented to see if the other, independently-created event could be changed to be hosted by the FSP group. It appears that facebook doesn't allow that, which is why I had to create another one.
No there is someone besides you Neal.  :)


Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Neal Conner on November 10, 2008, 10:36:23 am
No there is someone besides you Neal.  :)

Harrassing you to get on Facebook? I hope so!

Creating Liberty Forum facebook events? Yes, John Delano. I appreciate his initiative in creating an event. Now we just have to figure out how to effectively combine them.

Back on topic: Keep the clicks coming, Seth!
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 10, 2008, 02:27:30 pm
Facebook advertising rocks!  We're paying 1/2 to 1/3 per click what we would pay with google and we are targeting EXACTLY the audience we want rather than merely targeting mostly the audience we want.  The biggest problem I see is that our audience is only 3,000 people.  Those 3,000 people will see this ad dozens of times by the end of the week though (they've already seen it an average of 6 times each and it's cost us all of $15).

As you can see from the image below, we've had 50 clicks costing 30 cents each.  18,000 impressions (meaning the ad has been shown 18,000 times).  That gives us a click through rate of 0.28% (smaller than I would have thought, but young people are particularly good at filtering out advertising).  Think about how cool that is though.  It costs us about $2.50 to put this ad in front of every 18-25 year old libertarian in MA on facebook.  And it costs us only 30 cents to have one of them look at our website.  You can't get advertising like that cost effective anywhere else.

We are definitely going to have money left over by the end of this week.  I'm thinking of expanding the ad to other states in the area, focusing on the ones with biggest government: New York, Connecticut, New Jersey and Rhode Island.  I'll run the ads there till the money is spent. I really believe that this is the best advertising we can be doing so don't hesitate to contribute if you haven't yet.  It will be put to good use.

Final note: The reason that today's clicks are lower than yesterday's is because today doesn't end until 3:00 AM (that's when the ad was approved and that's how the 24 hour periods are measured).

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/fspadvertising/first%20campaign%20%20MA%20Only/day3.jpg)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sonio on November 10, 2008, 02:29:25 pm
Why only 3,000?
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 10, 2008, 02:42:56 pm
Why only 3,000?

That's the total number of Massachusetts facebook users between the ages of 18-25 who consider themselves libertarian OR are interested in Ron Paul OR are interested in Campaign for Liberty OR are interested in Ayn Rand.  Remember that the FSP's target market is very, very small...so I'm targeting a very small subset of the population.

I targeted the ad very specifically to get the most bang for the buck and it seems to be working.  Every libertarian 18-25 year old facebook user in MA will know something about the Free State Project by the end of this week.  They will at least recognize our logo because they're seeing this ad an average of 2-3 times per day.  Good targeting = cost effectiveness. 

Don't worry...we'll reach more people, but we'll do it in the same targeted way.  That way, we'll get the most bang for our buck out of the $215 we raised.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sonio on November 10, 2008, 02:52:39 pm
That is fantastic!  :)

I met a lot of Libertarians in the short time I lived in TX.  (For after we take over MA)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 11, 2008, 08:03:20 pm
Daily update below.

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/fspadvertising/first%20campaign%20%20MA%20Only/day4.jpg)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 13, 2008, 01:43:05 pm
Daily update.

I think we're going to see diminishing clicks for the remaining two days as we've saturated all the 18-25 year old libertarians on Facebook in MA.  They've each seen our ad about 16 times by now.  That's good.  I'll be expanding the ad to the most other states in the NE where a libertarian would feel least at home (NJ, NY, etc) after this run expires.

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/fspadvertising/first%20campaign%20%20MA%20Only/day5.jpg)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: rossby on November 13, 2008, 02:08:42 pm
I think we're going to see diminishing clicks for the remaining two days as we've saturated all the 18-25 year old libertarians on Facebook in MA.  They've each seen our ad about 16 times by now.  That's good.  I'll be expanding the ad to the most other states in the NE where a libertarian would feel least at home (NJ, NY, etc) after this run expires.

Just a thought: is it worth increasing the age range? There are a lot of people over 25 on facebook.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 13, 2008, 02:14:20 pm
I think we're going to see diminishing clicks for the remaining two days as we've saturated all the 18-25 year old libertarians on Facebook in MA.  They've each seen our ad about 16 times by now.  That's good.  I'll be expanding the ad to the most other states in the NE where a libertarian would feel least at home (NJ, NY, etc) after this run expires.

Just a thought: is it worth increasing the age range? There are a lot of people over 25 on facebook.

The money will be spent.  The question is, who are the most likely to sign up and move?  I think the younger the better, especially if they're in college, because they're more mobile.  That's why I focused the limited funding on 18-25 year olds.  I'm trying to squeeze the most out of the funding.  There are lots of ways to reach more people, but my concern is reaching the RIGHT people...the ones most likely to move.  Do you think that was the right or wrong call?
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: freedomroad on November 13, 2008, 02:40:04 pm
18-25 in MA is a great 1st step.  Either move to  18-25 in VT, ME, CT, and RI or to 26-35 in MA or so.  Then NY :)
We can always go back to 18-25 in MA a year from now with more or different search terms.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: margomaps on November 13, 2008, 02:46:54 pm
I think we're going to see diminishing clicks for the remaining two days as we've saturated all the 18-25 year old libertarians on Facebook in MA.  They've each seen our ad about 16 times by now.  That's good.  I'll be expanding the ad to the most other states in the NE where a libertarian would feel least at home (NJ, NY, etc) after this run expires.

Just a thought: is it worth increasing the age range? There are a lot of people over 25 on facebook.

The money will be spent.  The question is, who are the most likely to sign up and move?  I think the younger the better, especially if they're in college, because they're more mobile.  That's why I focused the limited funding on 18-25 year olds.  I'm trying to squeeze the most out of the funding.  There are lots of ways to reach more people, but my concern is reaching the RIGHT people...the ones most likely to move.  Do you think that was the right or wrong call?

I'm new to facebook advertising.  Does it cost more to target, say, 18-40 year olds than 18-25 year olds?  The chart indicates that we're paying for clicks, not impressions (maybe I'm reading it wrong).

I think 18-25 year olds are a fine group to target, but the 26+ crowd might have some advantages: bringing along their own businesses, money, and families (for the next generation of liberty activists).  We probably need to target all groups, but it's hard to make a determination about which groups are 1) easier to reach or 2) more valuable than others.

We're talking about a $30 investment so far though, right?  If that's the case, we should assess how well it worked, and if it looks like a promising ROI, expand it in a couple different directions (age and geographic region at least).  Maybe we should try a market-based approach to this by offering a chip-in for different categories: one for 18-25 year olds in VT/ME/CT/RI, another for 26-40 in MA, etc.  The ones that get funded will have ads purchased.  Just a thought.

This was a good idea -- thanks for running with it, Seth!
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: rossby on November 13, 2008, 02:49:45 pm
The money will be spent.  The question is, who are the most likely to sign up and move?  I think the younger the better, especially if they're in college, because they're more mobile.  That's why I focused the limited funding on 18-25 year olds.  Do you think that was the right or wrong call?

I think it's a good demographic because of the mobility aspect, as you pointed out. ('Course, it's not going to hit some grad/law/med/biz students who are statistically older and still very mobile.)

On the flip-side, I think it's less likely to get "serious" signers/movers from the undergraduate demographic. I can easily see a freshman clicking the link on a whim, then going out to play ultimate frisbee. Then forgetting about the whole thing. I can't say such a thing happens, but I could see FSP fading into the chaos of college if there isn't "more" to reinforce the message. In my own friends circle, I have noticed a lot more people with the "Libertarian" tag. It coincided very much with the ramp-up of the presidential primaries in 2007. I'm not sure if it's just a Facebook "give-a-finger-to-the-election" fad or what. I guess my point on that is that demographic is also very fickle, and their preferences shift quickly.

Also, I think there are additional "advertising channels" into colleges. Like, student liaisons, student groups, even random posters/flyers (ridiculously cost-effective). For example, people who would attend student meetings, etc.--those are pretty much guaranteed signers. And the organizers of those events will typically work for free because they "believe in the cause." (Not to denigrate them in any way; I'm just talking about conserving funds--a lot of the people who do all the ground-pounding don't have hard cash, but they'll put in the necessary grunt work!)

I suppose my thinking was that students have the potential to be bombarded with FSP material from multiple directions. Thus, some paid advertising would be redundant. Whereas older individuals typically don't have those multiple opportunities, so a Facebook ad might be the first (possibly only) opportunity they ever hear of FSP.

Another thing with click-through advertising. Not every impression needs to generate a click. Half of the problem is saturating the viewers with exposure to the FSP--because they don't know it exists. Repeated impressions, send the message that, yes, this is a legitimate thing and maybe you should look into it. On that note, I wouldn't judge the effectiveness of (what I hope is) a long-term campaign quite yet.

I'd suggest rotating to another state in the same age-demographic (Don't forget NJ--lot of unhappy people there). No rush to "make it perfect". Can always re-assess the results down the road. On that, it would be helpful to know whether the clickthroughs actually sign-up for a newsletter, mailing list, SOI, etc. Do we have that capability? If there are solid results, I'll certainly chip in to keep it going :)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Fishercat on November 13, 2008, 03:01:05 pm

On the flip-side, I think it's less likely to get "serious" signers/movers from the undergraduate demographic.

Agreed.

The under-25 crowd who are trying to start a career are going to be at the mercy of the job market.  You've got to go where you can start your job.   A 35+, on the other hand, may be established enough to more that career with him.  And a 45+ may be in a position to consider early retirement, or at least a major career change, to help facilitate a move.

Facebook already is going to skew you towards the lower age groups, so I wouldn't anticipate opening up the upper end to be that much of a cost issue.   Since we only pay for the click-throughs, what we are concerned about is the seriousness of those clicks, not the quality of the demographics overall.  Looking at it from that angle, I would guess targeting the higher age groups would work out.

In any case, it might be worth an experiment... maybe a follow on to the younger MA campaign, and try to figure out how it really plays out.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: rossby on November 13, 2008, 03:13:51 pm

On the flip-side, I think it's less likely to get "serious" signers/movers from the undergraduate demographic.
Facebook already is going to skew you towards the lower age groups, so I wouldn't anticipate opening up the upper end to be that much of a cost issue.   Since we only pay for the click-throughs, what we are concerned about is the seriousness of those clicks, not the quality of the demographics overall.  Looking at it from that angle, I would guess targeting the higher age groups would work out.

Perhaps we could estimate how many people in each age group are actually in each area.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: JonM on November 13, 2008, 03:14:44 pm
For MA, perhaps a "Tired of having no voice in government?" tag for the 25+ crowd might get us some participants.  Anyone whose job is on 128 or I-495 can move to Southern NH and suffer MA income tax alongside NH property tax, but there are a LOT of people who do that already.  Don't discount those 25+ who have a non-portable job that wouldn't mind a 20 minute longer commute to be able to actually vote for a Republican for state rep, something many people in MA do not have the chance to do.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 13, 2008, 03:20:31 pm
Thanks for the suggestions guys.  I'll take it into account as I start phase two. 

It seems I'm alone in thinking that the 18-25 demographic is the most cost-effective.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 13, 2008, 03:24:34 pm
I'm new to facebook advertising.  Does it cost more to target, say, 18-40 year olds than 18-25 year olds?  The chart indicates that we're paying for clicks, not impressions (maybe I'm reading it wrong).

We pay per click...the question is how quality the clicks are and whether we're getting the most bang for our buck.  I figured that 18-25 were the most mobile and therefore the most cost-effective clicks.  I'll probably raise the age for next time since that seems to be the consensus.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: rossby on November 13, 2008, 04:25:23 pm
I'm new to facebook advertising.  Does it cost more to target, say, 18-40 year olds than 18-25 year olds?  The chart indicates that we're paying for clicks, not impressions (maybe I'm reading it wrong).

We pay per click...the question is how quality the clicks are and whether we're getting the most bang for our buck.  I figured that 18-25 were the most mobile and therefore the most cost-effective clicks.  I'll probably raise the age for next time since that seems to be the consensus.

We're just offering constructive commentary :)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sonio on November 13, 2008, 05:01:11 pm
Quote
It seems I'm alone in thinking that the 18-25 demographic is the most cost-effective.

There is also the idealistic quality in younger people, as well as the belief that the sky is the limit.
Also, young people are particularly drawn to feeling like they are part of a cause.
And, the largest demographic on facebook is the 18-25 crowd.

I think you people are good to get your hands on...

I'm.... shit wow I'm 28.  HA HA HA HA, I'm not in the young category!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: garthwaited on November 13, 2008, 05:24:21 pm
I've asked about putting shipple's chip-in at the top of the forum.

What'dya guy's think?
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Dreepa on November 13, 2008, 05:52:49 pm
I've asked about putting shipple's chip-in at the top of the forum.

What'dya guy's think?
good idea.

Seth do both... increase to say 40.  and then do ME, RI, CT, VT, NY, NJ, PA in that order.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 13, 2008, 06:13:57 pm
I've asked about putting shipple's chip-in at the top of the forum.

What'dya guy's think?
good idea.

Seth do both... increase to say 40.  and then do ME, RI, CT, VT, NY, NJ, PA in that order.

We'll have the money to do that, I think, after this month's FSP News goes out.

If I have my druthers, the age won't go above 30.  I'll have to decide how big of an audience I can target at the end of this week when I see the click through rate and how much we've raised.  I'll then decide which states we should expand to.  All of the ones you mention will be in the consideration set...I don't think we should go south of PA...although I've considered Maryland because it's so statist (meaning a libertarian would not feel at home there and might be more eager to move).

The reason I'm trying not to expand this too broad, besides the fact that I'm trying to stretch the funds, is that since we don't pay for people to look at the ad, the longer the ad is running, the more free advertising we get, so I don't want the money to run out too quick.  I want to stretch it out.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 13, 2008, 06:21:54 pm
I've asked about putting shipple's chip-in at the top of the forum.

What'dya guy's think?

I, of course, love the idea.   :)  Others might not since the donations go directly to me and aren't filtered through the FSP.  For that reason, I try to be very open about everything, posting daily updates which show a screenshot of exactly what is going on, which can be compared to the info given at the chipin site.  Even so, if there's pushback on putting this at the top of the forum, that will be their complaint.  If there's a debate about whether or not the chipin should be at the top of the forum, it will explain further why I didn't do this project through the FSP...it just takes too much time.

*shrugs*  No one else was doing this...I've suggested it multiple times and nothing happened so I did it myself.   I came up with the idea, designed the message, designed the page, set up the chipin and launched the campaign...it's worked much better than decision-making by committee me thinks. 

Let me know what John M says about it!!
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: coldsoul on November 13, 2008, 07:10:22 pm
I think I am going to send a few bucks the way of this, looks like a good way to get new members. Though I am not a part of facebook, I know it's pretty popular.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Neal Conner on November 14, 2008, 09:54:34 am
On the flip-side, I think it's less likely to get "serious" signers/movers from the undergraduate demographic. I can easily see a freshman clicking the link on a whim, then going out to play ultimate frisbee. Then forgetting about the whole thing. I can't say such a thing happens, but I could see FSP fading into the chaos of college if there isn't "more" to reinforce the message.

As a 19-year-old college freshman, I decided to join the FSP while sitting in my dorm's laundry room after thinking about it seriously for quite some time. Later that week I bought plane tickets to go to my first PorcFest (2006).

I wasn't a fan of ultimate frisbee though, so I may not fit your example.

We must keep in mind just how dedicated to liberty our fellow libertarians and Ron Paul supporters are, how extremely motivated college students are, and how inspired they could become by an actual prospect of liberty in their lifetimes.

I think this is the right market to first target, but I also think that the FSP should be spending a good portion of its money on this each month!

Seth, have you put in a request for budgeting to make a facebook campaign permanent?
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: aworldnervelink on November 14, 2008, 10:55:39 am
I'm working on a Facebook app which will display the FSP counter numbers. Users will be able to add it to their profiles - permanent advertising.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 14, 2008, 09:00:55 pm
Daily update for 11/14

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/fspadvertising/first%20campaign%20%20MA%20Only/day6.jpg)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: chesler on November 15, 2008, 10:12:27 am
First-time poster, long-time friend, from the Bay State here.

I can't move right now (and that's why I didn't sign the pledge to move) -- I'm in that immobile middle-aged demographic, and my school-aged kids have some strong ties to the community I don't want to break.  My immediate family has been in SoNH for almost as long as I've been in MA (22 years and 18 years, vice 22 years plus college for me) so I've been tempted to move there anyway, but my late wife wanted to stay in her native Woburn for the waters. (She was misinformed.)

I came here because the November FSP news came on a slow Saturday morning.  I don't understand the overwhelming defeat of Q1, and I suspect it's because CLT didn't get the message out that there's no way the Great and General Court would really cut off the income tax.  Reputation aside, the tax burden isn't all that high here. I pay less than when I was in NYC, and less than my family in NH ($10 per mil property tax which includes a good number of services offsets the 5.3% quite a bit.)

I was disappointed that my fellow Bay Staters didn't get credit for passing Q2 (marijuana decriminalization), and that my legislature doesn't get some credit for not restricting the right to marriage by gender (no Prop 8 here.)  Being solid on personal liberties gets you halfway to libertarian. And I can vote for the LP yellow dog without worrying that my vote would cause the greater of two evils to be elected (one of those freedom = nothing left to lose things.) 

I agree with the idea, and disagree with Fishercat, that it's the recent grads who are most mobile.  Needing a job is a pull, but the economy is equally bad most places.  It's a lot easier to move if you're used to living in a dorm and moving every year, with no income anyway, and no seniority to lose, than when you've got a house and you're support for multiple people with local connections.

Why do you keep repeating the lie that there is no income or sales tax in NH? (Granted the middle section of the 101 reasons uses the weasel-word "general".)

My family pays a significant income tax on the money they earned by deferring consumption and lending it to others or investing it (so-called unearned income) and we all pay sales tax at a greater rate in NH than MA on meals.  Unlike NY's universal 8.25% sales tax, the MA 5% tax exempts most clothing and most food not ready to eat.

I'm sure my family were not the first people to be sadly disappointed that in addition to a high property tax rate, they owed a few years back income taxes after moving to a state with no income tax.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 16, 2008, 06:45:04 pm
The campaign is complete.  I hadn't had time to post the final update.  Here it is.  I will start the next phase which will expand the campaign to the rest of New England within the next 48 hours.  I'll post the details here before I launch it to get input.  Be patient with me as I have a final trial tomorrow and am very busy with that.

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/fspadvertising/first%20campaign%20%20MA%20Only/completedcampaign.jpg)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Neal Conner on November 17, 2008, 12:19:20 pm
Could you place a facebook logo on the page they're directed to, which links to the FSP facebook group?

(http://westendwhingers.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/facebook_logo80.jpg)

Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 17, 2008, 12:21:29 pm
Could you place a facebook logo on the page they're directed to, which links to the FSP facebook group?

(http://westendwhingers.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/facebook_logo80.jpg)



Take a look at the bottom left of the landing page (http://www.freestateproject.org/intro/2008_election).  ;)  I also have it set up so that if any of their friends are members of the facebook group, above the ad it will show their friend's picture and say "your friend Joe is a member of the facebook group Free State Project."  I should post on the phase II of the campaign by tomorrow.  Sorry about the delay.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 17, 2008, 11:08:11 pm
Phase II

We have raised $318 and, amazingly, only spent $43.62 in our extremely cost-effective Phase I campaign.  That leaves $274.38.  Divided by 7 to spread it out over a week means we will spend $39.18 per day.  On advice of most of the people on the forum, I've raised the maximum age to 30.  It covers every state north of Maryland.  That gives us a target market of about 56,000.  The ad will start at midnight 11/19 and run for 7 days.  I'm curious to see whether the cost per click will go up since this ad is slightly less targeted than the last one.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Neal Conner on November 17, 2008, 11:38:35 pm
Phase II

We have raised $318 and, amazingly, only spent $43.62 in our extremely cost-effective Phase I campaign.  That leaves $274.38.  Divided by 7 to spread it out over a week means we will spend $39.18 per day.  On advice of most of the people on the forum, I've raised the maximum age to 30.  It covers every state north of Maryland.  That gives us a target market of about 50,000.  The campaign will start as soon as it is approved by Facebook (a few hours).  I'm curious to see whether the cost per click will go up since this ad is slightly less targeted than the last one.

Awesome!
Maybe someday we'll recruit everyone north of the Mason-Dixon line, and have to start advertising to Confederates like myself.

I'd be extremey surprised if the cost-per-click is higher, precisely because we're advertising to a less targeted market. For example, ads in the student newspaper here cost significantly more than the city newspaper (owned by the New York Times of course) since it's targeted exclusively towards students.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 18, 2008, 12:00:57 am
I'm happy to run a campaign targeted to any interest group provided the funds are there.  If you want to increase the clout of your region, pet issue, lifestyle, etc in the FSP, put up a chipin and I'll be happy to run the campaign.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Neal Conner on November 19, 2008, 01:43:51 pm
Well then I'll just have to make a "Pink Porcupines" landing page for queer libertarians and advocate an ad–campaign for that.  :D

Would you mind giving me edit access to the landing page you made, so I can copy your layout?
http://www.freestateproject.org/user/2612 (User: NealConner )
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 19, 2008, 01:48:57 pm
Neal, I'll forward your post to the appropriate people who can give you access (hint: when you copy and paste, make sure that the page you're pasting to is set to "full HTML" or else it won't work).

Here is the info from day 1 of phase 2.  As I suspected, the cost per click is a bit higher because the ad is a bit less targeted.  Last time, the CPC dropped through the course of the campaign so hopefully that will happen this time as well.

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/fspadvertising/second%20campaign%20%2010%20states/phase2_day1.jpg)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 19, 2008, 03:46:51 pm
We may have just gotten another signup.  Can't be sure because they listed the place where they heard about the FSP as "facebook" and not "facebook ad," but it's from a state that we're advertising in so it's a good possibility.

Like I've said previously though, most of the signups from this campaign will come in a few weeks and months.  Most people need time to think about the idea before the sign.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: error on November 19, 2008, 05:28:00 pm
Does Facebook not offer conversion tracking?

Alternately, why is the site not tracking conversions itself?
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 19, 2008, 05:32:55 pm
Does Facebook not offer conversion tracking?

No, I don't think they do.

Quote
Alternately, why is the site not tracking conversions itself?

I don't know how.

We've done it in the past and I've found it to be mostly useless because almost no one signs up the first time they visit the FSP website.  They usually come back a few days later and look around and then sign up.  Conversion tracking doesn't track that.  Even people who sign up the same day generally don't do it on their first visit so conversion tracking isn't too helpful.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Liberty603 on November 19, 2008, 06:11:43 pm
Nice work on the Facebook ads!   :)

Google Analytics (which appears to be in use on freestateproject.org) will actually track conversions days, weeks, months later. There are some limitations but it's mostly accurate. If it's something you'd like to try setting up again I'd be happy to help, PM me.

Where do I volunteer for the FSP "tech team" or whatever it's called? I've heard this mentioned but can't find any reference to it on the volunteer info pages.

~turbo
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: error on November 19, 2008, 06:52:56 pm
Just give 'em a cookie.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 19, 2008, 07:19:04 pm
Nice work on the Facebook ads!   :)

Google Analytics (which appears to be in use on freestateproject.org) will actually track conversions days, weeks, months later. There are some limitations but it's mostly accurate. If it's something you'd like to try setting up again I'd be happy to help, PM me.

Where do I volunteer for the FSP "tech team" or whatever it's called? I've heard this mentioned but can't find any reference to it on the volunteer info pages.

~turbo


PM Sent
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Denis Goddard on November 19, 2008, 07:29:49 pm
First:
SETH, YOU FUCKING ROCK!!
This is 10x more cost-effective than the Google Ads I had done about a year ago. I chipped in at the start of the campaign and may chip in again in a few weeks. I definitely think we should saturate the New England facebook users with this campaign.

Maybe we should start another campaign in January or so to push the Liberty Forum specifically...?
Put up a picture of Glenn Jacobs/Kane and text like "KANE IS A LIBERTARIAN! Wanna meet him in person?"

Second:
I tried to set up conversion tracking in Google and it never worked. I've no idea why.
BTW, we do still have Google Analytics running on the site -- I've attached a report to this post.
Unfortunately, the FSP Forum won't let one attach PDF files (hey Maltz, can you fix that please?) so you'll have to download it and then rename ".txt" to ".pdf"

If it's something you'd like to try setting up again I'd be happy to help [...] Where do I volunteer for the FSP "tech team" or whatever it's called?
That would be hugely appreciated. Join this group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FSPIT
Post therein that you know what you're going with Google conversion tracking. The FSP's head IT dude (Louis) set up a way-cool system wherein you can "check out" a copy of the site, make any needed modifications there, test 'em, and he can copy the changes back to the production site.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 19, 2008, 08:02:43 pm
First:
SETH, YOU FUCKING ROCK!!
This is 10x more cost-effective than the Google Ads I had done about a year ago. I chipped in at the start of the campaign and may chip in again in a few weeks. I definitely think we should saturate the New England facebook users with this campaign.


None of this could've happened if people hadn't been so generous.  I'm stoked we raised $318 so easily.  I'm convinced this is going to be the most $318 we've ever spent on advertising.  I really want to remind everyone that this was done completely outside of the FSP as an organization...no permission from the FSP board or anything.  You can do stuff like this too.  It's not too hard.

Varrin has been talking to me about making this a continuous cost item for the FSP where the FSP puts a certain amount of money into facebook advertising every month.  That would be great!! 

And yes, this beats the pants off google.  Not only is it at least 1/3 the price, it allows you to have an image and more text.  It ALSO reaches exactly the target market you want.  Google only knows what someone is searching for (and any statist can do a search for "libertarian"), but facebook shows your ads only to people who self-identify as libertarians or fans of Ayn Rand or whatever.  Plus, google is very cranky.  It will triple your cost per click out of nowhere for no apparent reason if it decides your ad isn't targeted enough.

There is one limitation to facebook: its users are seriously skewed towards a younger demographic. 

Quote

Maybe we should start another campaign in January or so to push the Liberty Forum specifically...?
Put up a picture of Glenn Jacobs/Kane and text like "KANE IS A LIBERTARIAN! Wanna meet him in person?"


We usually advertise PorcFest on google, so that's not a bad idea.  If Ron Paul is a speaker, that might be another angle.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: JonM on November 19, 2008, 08:13:11 pm
pdf should work now.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Denis Goddard on November 19, 2008, 08:19:21 pm
pdf should work now.
Tried, got:
"The upload folder is full. Please try a smaller file and/or contact an administrator. "


Please up the quota.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Liberty603 on November 19, 2008, 08:28:46 pm
Denis,

The Google Analytics conversion tracking actually appears to be working    :) 

I've joined the FSP IT group but feel free to PM me if I can help with anything specific you're working on. I do a lot of work with Google Analytics (and Adwords, as well).

~turbo
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Denis Goddard on November 19, 2008, 08:42:53 pm
The Google Analytics conversion tracking actually appears to be working    :) 
Groovy! I hadn't looked.

If you'd like direct access to the analytics data, email me and I'll set you up
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Liberty603 on November 19, 2008, 09:01:23 pm
If you'd like direct access to the analytics data, email me and I'll set you up

Thanks! PM sent
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 19, 2008, 09:18:17 pm
We may have just gotten another signup.  Can't be sure because they listed the place where they heard about the FSP as "facebook" and not "facebook ad," but it's from a state that we're advertising in so it's a good possibility

Turbo knows how to use the conversion tracking!

AND...he confirmed that we have indeed gotten ANOTHER signup from the facebook campaign TODAY.  ;D
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: JonM on November 19, 2008, 10:29:07 pm
pdf should work now.
Tried, got:
"The upload folder is full. Please try a smaller file and/or contact an administrator. "


Please up the quota.
How big is it?
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: error on November 20, 2008, 08:37:57 am
Speaking of which, what do people see after they sign up? I would suggest that new signers be directed to places like the various forums, blogs etc., where they can start getting involved right away.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 20, 2008, 08:57:21 am
Speaking of which, what do people see after they sign up? I would suggest that new signers be directed to places like the various forums, blogs etc., where they can start getting involved right away.

Great idea!
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 20, 2008, 06:24:44 pm
We just got another signup (friend) from this campaign.

Here's your daily update.

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/fspadvertising/second%20campaign%20%2010%20states/phase2_day2.jpg)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: coldsoul on November 21, 2008, 12:07:07 am
Keep up the good work, I will send a couple more buck towards the project in another week as this is working out great.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Liberty603 on November 21, 2008, 01:19:59 pm
Another conversion yesterday directly traceable to Seth's Facebook campaign... that makes 3 so far!   ;D
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Liberty603 on November 21, 2008, 01:24:31 pm
I should add that I agree with Seth that since many people aren't ready to sign the statement of intent the same day they first learn about the whole thing, it is very likely that we'll see significant residuals down the road (i.e. in addition to the 3 that have already signed up, others who have clicked the ad will sign up at some future date).
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 21, 2008, 01:25:38 pm
Another conversion yesterday directly traceable to Seth's Facebook campaign... that makes 3 so far!   ;D

Thanks for tracking conversions and keeping an eye on analytics, turbo!
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Dreepa on November 21, 2008, 03:11:33 pm
I should add that I agree with Seth that since many people aren't ready to sign the statement of intent the same day they first learn about the whole thing, it is very likely that we'll see significant residuals down the road (i.e. in addition to the 3 that have already signed up, others who have clicked the ad will sign up at some future date).
True and some may have heard of it first somewhere else and then this ad makes them see it again.

They may even google FSP on their own later...

The ad is GREAT

4 thumbs up for Seth!
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 21, 2008, 04:02:19 pm
Here's your daily update.  Btw, what's a good image hosting site?  I'm thinking of moving all these photos to a free hosting site since all of them will disappear when I graduate and no longer can use school bandwidth.  I've moved all the images to Photobucket.


(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/fspadvertising/second%20campaign%20%2010%20states/phase2_day3.jpg)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 22, 2008, 12:54:14 pm
Daily update

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/fspadvertising/second%20campaign%20%2010%20states/phase2_day4.jpg)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: coldsoul on November 22, 2008, 05:24:54 pm
Thanks for the updates
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 23, 2008, 01:43:51 pm
Daily update.

As you can see, the cost per click has gone down significantly since this campaign started.

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/fspadvertising/second%20campaign%20%2010%20states/phase2_day5.jpg)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 23, 2008, 10:32:26 pm
Turbo will have to confirm but I think we just got another signup from the campaign.  ;D
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Dreepa on November 24, 2008, 08:26:33 am
Turbo will have to confirm but I think we just got another signup from the campaign.  ;D
I can confirm it...... :)

These ads rock!

I think we just need more money and then target the other 40 states.. keep doing it in stages....Next run do another 10 states.
Then another 10 then another 10... eventually we can hit them all and then go back to the first 10 with slightly different parameters and a slightly different ad.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Neal Conner on November 24, 2008, 10:45:14 am
I looked on the stats page (http://www.freestateproject.org/about/membership.php) to find a graph of recent sign-up statistics, but it doesn't seem to include even October.

Is that manually updated? It'd be great to see a current graph with the election and facebook campaign included. (Though I realise there is significant latency between first hearing about it and signing.)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: jeanius on November 24, 2008, 11:17:58 am
Signup stats are manually updated by me.  Unfortunately there was a mixup and that data was going to my work email for the last two months which is why I hadn't been able to find it when I went looking to update them.  (Work and personal accounts have a chinese wall going on!)  They'll be updated shortly.

Sometimes we see new recruiting methods right away, often there is a month or three lag.  Sometimes we see the original source of info years later.  ;)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 24, 2008, 02:20:24 pm
Daily update.  CPC has fallen to 43, which is great.

I do have one question.  We're going to have a few bucks left over at the end of this campaign (don't ask me why...the target market was more than big enough to spend it all.  Apparently, facebook isn't eager to take all of our money).  Should I do another few days in the current ten states or expand to Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota and that area.

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/fspadvertising/second%20campaign%20%2010%20states/phase2_day6.jpg)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: margomaps on November 24, 2008, 03:17:43 pm
Signup stats are manually updated by me.  Unfortunately there was a mixup and that data was going to my work email for the last two months which is why I hadn't been able to find it when I went looking to update them.  (Work and personal accounts have a chinese wall going on!)  They'll be updated shortly.

Sometimes we see new recruiting methods right away, often there is a month or three lag.  Sometimes we see the original source of info years later.  ;)

Jean, do you know what program is used to generate the charts for signup stats?  I find the fonts in those charts (and the charts themselves) to be rather hard to read.  I'd be happy to lend my own time and expertise to produce nicer looking charts.  Without giving too much thought to aesthetics, I recently created a script to generate a bar chart of movers to NH:

(http://66.30.80.167/pics/misc/fsp_movers.png)

IMO that's a little more legible (even with the smaller size), and I'm sure I could improve upon that.  If nobody really cares, then maybe someone could at least look into whether the images currently being posted are being scaled much larger than their native dimensions...that would probably explain the extremely blocky fonts.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Liberty603 on November 24, 2008, 03:52:46 pm
Turbo will have to confirm but I think we just got another signup from the campaign.  ;D

I can't confirm this one through Google Analytics (there are certain situations in which conversions can't be tracked) but if they said "facebook" as how they heard about FSP, then chances are it was from the ad.  :)

Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 24, 2008, 05:02:52 pm
The Chipin ends in 6 days and we're $157 away from reaching $500.  http://fsp.chipin.com/

This outreach continues to be very effective so consider donating if you haven't yet.  We've had donations as small as $3 and that's helpful too...a mere $3 reaches 7-10 clickers and gets about 8,000 views for our ad.  :o
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: garthwaited on November 26, 2008, 11:33:36 am
(i.e. in addition to the 3 that have already signed up, others who have clicked the ad will sign up at some future date).

I first heard about the FSP on Slashdot.  Twice.

It was two years before I looked at it again and later signed.  Another year and a half before I moved.

It was Badnarik's constitution class that was the tipping point, and that was posted by a Free Stater on archive.org.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Dreepa on November 26, 2008, 12:44:25 pm
The Chipin ends in 6 days and we're $157 away from reaching $500.  http://fsp.chipin.com/




$117 now
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 26, 2008, 01:37:23 pm
Awesome!  We'll have money to expand into at least one, maybe two new states after the campaign ends at 3:00AM tomorrow morning.  You can see how much we've raised on http://fsp.chipin.com/ and compare it to how much we've spent (as reflected in the daily updates).

Here's your daily update:

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/fspadvertising/second%20campaign%20%2010%20states/phase2_day7.jpg)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: freedomroad on November 26, 2008, 09:59:02 pm
Why did I see the FSP ad?  My network in Manchester, NH.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 26, 2008, 11:17:06 pm
Why did I see the FSP ad?  My network in Manchester, NH.

Keith, you just moved to NH, right?  So I imagine you are probably a member of more than one network, one of them being a school or city outside of NH.  That's probably why.

Here are the parameters of our ad.  As you can see, the ad is not being shown to NH residents (except those who might also be in other networks).

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/fspadvertising/second%20campaign%20%2010%20states/Phase2Parameters.jpg)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: freedomroad on November 27, 2008, 10:31:51 pm
I am only in the Manchester, NH network.  I am on a wifi network in VT so either that is why or there is a problem with Facebook (most likely).
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 28, 2008, 12:18:50 am
I am on a wifi network in VT <snip>

We were advertising in Vermont so that would explain it.

--

Here are the numbers for the completed campaign.

We reached 50,660 people.  The ad was shown 636,466 times meaning that the average person saw it about 12.56 times.    The ad was clicked 680 times by a total of 662 people (a few of them clicked more than once, which means they probably liked what they saw the first time). 

The total cost of this phase II campaign was $288.68, bringing our total spent to $332.30.  We've now raised a total of $383 so that leaves a balance of $50.70 yet to spend.  That's enough to show this in at least one state in phase III.  If you'd like to contribute, don't think that it's too late.  We still have 40 states we've not yet shown this ad in.


(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/fspadvertising/second%20campaign%20%2010%20states/Phase2completed.jpg)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Dreepa on November 28, 2008, 10:21:18 am

The total cost of this phase II campaign was $288.68, bringing our total spent to $332.30.  We've now raised a total of $383 so that leaves a balance of $50.70 yet to spend.  That's enough to show this in at least one state in phase III.  If you'd like to contribute, don't think that it's too late.  We still have 40 states we've not yet shown this ad in.

Maybe do the ad in 10 states for the over 30 crowd?
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: JonM on November 28, 2008, 01:26:01 pm
Maybe Seth doesn't like us old people.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 28, 2008, 01:30:43 pm
It's not the most cost-effective, but ok, since you insist.  I doubt it will cost $50 to do that so I'll probably still tack on another state.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 29, 2008, 01:35:51 pm
Alright.  I've started phase III.  This will target people in the same ten states with the same interests who are ages 30 and above.  Only difference is facebook will no longer let me target Campaign for Liberty as an interest.  Target market is 15,000.  We should spend the remaining $50.70 by the end of the week (how many times have I said that?).

--

EDIT

 ;D

We got another $50 donation today, so phase III will not only include everyone above 30 in the original 10 states, but will also include libertarians in West Virginia and Ohio with no age restrictions.  If we get anymore donations, I will up the daily budget because the target market (about 30,000 people) is definitely big enough to get more than $100.70 worth of clicks if we have the money.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 29, 2008, 06:21:43 pm
I've extended the ending date for the chipin (http://fsp.chipin.com/fsp-facebook-ads) another seven days to the infamous December 7.  We keep getting donations so I'll keep the chipin up.  The level of giving is surpassing my expectations!  Thanks everyone!!  ;D
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Extreme on November 30, 2008, 05:29:49 am
Eh, close enough... was going to drop in 50 but I figured I would round it off to a nice even $500 :)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: coldsoul on November 30, 2008, 06:18:21 am
Eh, close enough... was going to drop in 50 but I figured I would round it off to a nice even $500 :)

Thanks extreme, I wish I had 500 bucks I could drop like that on it. Thanks again!
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Dreepa on November 30, 2008, 07:35:32 am
Thanks Extreme and welcome to the Forum!

When SJ gets up he is going to be in awe... and then have to figure what other states to hit.  :)


I suggest MN and MI.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: freedomroad on November 30, 2008, 09:17:12 am
Yeah, anything northern or eastern would be best but I'm thinking that the whole country will likely be have ads at some point.  Anyway, that is a lot of money to donate but at least this method is proven.  Thank you!
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 30, 2008, 02:13:19 pm
Extreme, thanks!  That's quite a first post to make on the forum.

We have now reached our goal of $500!  ;D


Right now, we're reaching people in the original ten states that are 30 and above: 15,000 people.  Plus, everyone of all ages in WV and OH: 15,000 people.  Since our target market is 30,000, I think that, to make sure that this market gets saturated, we should spend the $67 in this market and, if there's any left over, then expand to another state.

This new infusion of cash brings our daily budget for the current campaign to $24.07 per day.  If it doesn't seem like we're spending that much, I'll add another state.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 30, 2008, 02:28:19 pm
Looks like we just got another (friend) signup from this campaign!!  Turbo will have to confirm.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on November 30, 2008, 11:58:20 pm
The campaign started at 12:01 this morning.  Here are my observations so far.  The click through rate is higher.  If you look, the half of the campaign that is targeting only people 30 and above has a very high CTR.  This may be because younger people are more likely to filter out online advertising.  Secondly, this campaign is going to be very cost effective.  Our cost per click is very low and will likely drop further.  I think this is because the click through rate is higher.  Facebook is also showing our ad more to the 10 states than to WV and OH.  I believe this is also due to the higher click through rate.

I think the $24.07 budget is just about right.  We haven't quite hit it yet and it's almost midnight.  The daily cycles start and end at 3:00 so that means we have another 3 hours to spend the remaining budget.  When you're exhausting your budget RIGHT at 3:00 AM, that indicates your budget is exactly what should be.  If you exaust it earlier, you could stand to spend more, and if you don't exhaust it, your daily budget is too high.  Since we're going to be exhausting it close to 3:00, that means our budget is just about what it should be...it could stand to be a bit higher, but it's just about right.

Lastly, note that this campaign is a bit different than the other two.  We have two distinct target markets.  The highlighted portion is the sum or average (depending on which metric it is) of the two target groups.

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/fspadvertising/Phase%20III/phase3_day1.jpg)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on December 01, 2008, 01:35:44 am
Another friend signup.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Dreepa on December 01, 2008, 09:03:25 am
and another participant today. ;D
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on December 01, 2008, 02:25:29 pm
Daily update.  Our cost per click continues to fall.  The click through rate remains very high.  Our daily budget looks just about right.

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/fspadvertising/Phase%20III/phase3_day2.jpg)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on December 01, 2008, 05:40:48 pm
Looks like we just got yet another signup from the campaign.  That makes 1 friend and 2 participants who signed up from the facebook campaign just today.  ;D
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: K. Darien Freeheart on December 01, 2008, 05:42:57 pm
Awesome, awesome, awesome!
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on December 02, 2008, 12:19:13 pm
(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/fspadvertising/Phase%20III/phase3_day3.jpg)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Liberty603 on December 02, 2008, 02:20:32 pm
Google Analytics shows 5 signups from Facebook over the past two days (4 yesterday, 1 on Nov. 30)    :)



Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Dreepa on December 02, 2008, 10:43:50 pm
Another Friend 5 minutes ago from the Facebook ad.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on December 03, 2008, 12:32:07 am
And yet another friend signup from the facebook campaign not 2 minutes ago.  :)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Dreepa on December 03, 2008, 07:44:22 am
a few more days for the chip in.

Seth... have you calculated what it would cost to run this ad in the other 38 or so states?

Maybe in chunks of 6 or 7 states?

maybe we could start another chip in after christmas (or now)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: aworldnervelink on December 03, 2008, 02:28:31 pm
Personally I think we should just collect enough $ to do all the states at once, rather than going at it piecemeal...
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on December 03, 2008, 03:24:33 pm
Personally I think we should just collect enough $ to do all the states at once, rather than going at it piecemeal...


You get me that money, and I'll do it.   ;)  I see no reason to wait until the election was stale in everyone's mind to hit the 12 states we've hit so far.

We just got another participant signup from the campaign.

Here's your daily update:

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/fspadvertising/Phase%20III/phase3_day4.jpg)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sonio on December 03, 2008, 03:27:28 pm
I think bit by bit is better.  One big blowout ad is pointless as marketing is an art based on brand building and recognition.  The more often is seen, the more likely a sign-up will be.  It can be seen more often by concentrating who can see it.  The same with concentrating a bunch of Libertarians into one state.

Slow and steady wins the race.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Dreepa on December 03, 2008, 03:43:45 pm
I was thinking in terms of ...raising money... we don't just get $500 but get it in smaller chunks... so when we raise another $x  we can spend it in Y more states.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on December 03, 2008, 04:04:00 pm
I was thinking in terms of ...raising money... we don't just get $500 but get it in smaller chunks... so when we raise another $x  we can spend it in Y more states.

That seems to be working best.  I have a plan for which states to hit first.  It costs about $50 or less to advertise for one week in any given state (unless it's very small like South Dakota or very large like California).  I estimate it would cost $1500 to do a 1 week ad in the remaining 37 states.

Should I try to start raising it?  Is the interest there or has this run its course for now?  The chipin is open for another 3 days.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on December 04, 2008, 12:37:18 am
For purposes of record keeping, I count 6 participants and 5 friends from these campaigns.  I'm going to keep a running tally from now on. 
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Dreepa on December 04, 2008, 07:57:24 am
I was thinking in terms of ...raising money... we don't just get $500 but get it in smaller chunks... so when we raise another $x  we can spend it in Y more states.

That seems to be working best.  I have a plan for which states to hit first.  It costs about $50 or less to advertise for one week in any given state (unless it's very small like South Dakota or very large like California).  I estimate it would cost $1500 to do a 1 week ad in the remaining 37 states.

Should I try to start raising it?  Is the interest there or has this run its course for now?  The chipin is open for another 3 days.
You might want to break it into chunks of $500 Raising $1500 all at once will be tougher.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: margomaps on December 04, 2008, 09:00:18 am
For purposes of record keeping, I count 6 participants and 5 friends from these campaigns.  I'm going to keep a running tally from now on. 

It's good to have recruited 6 participants in this effort so far.  Hopefully over time more of those who learned about the FSP for the first time through this campaign will revisit the idea and sign up.

But right now it looks like it has cost about $70 per new participant with these Facebook ads.  If it costs that much for each new participant between now and, say, 20,000 participants, that's a cool $770,000.  My question is, how does this cost-per-participant compare with other methods of advertisement/recruitment the FSP has tried in the past?
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on December 04, 2008, 09:05:27 am
Well, we haven't finished the campaign, so it will probably cost more like $50 per participant, plus the new participants that sign up a few months later, and also the ripple effect of people talking about it to their friends.

Our average cost per signup for other advertising has been $100 per signup.  This campaign should cut that in half.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: margomaps on December 04, 2008, 09:35:28 am
Well, we haven't finished the campaign, so it will probably cost more like $50 per participant, plus the new participants that sign up a few months later, and also the ripple effect of people talking about it to their friends.

Our average cost per signup for other advertising has been $100 per signup.  This campaign should cut that in half.

Cutting costs in half sounds good!  :)

Probably too obvious a question, but is it possible to get "bulk discounts" if you buy a larger quantity of Facebook advertising upfront?  That  would be one reason to save up a bunch of money for an ad blitz rather than spending it piecemeal.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on December 04, 2008, 09:40:40 am
No, there are no discounts.  You pretty much just pay per click.  The cost per click is dependent on supply and demand, and how well your ad is targeted.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: MattLeft on December 04, 2008, 04:34:34 pm
Seth,

Just chipped in $30.  You're doing damn fine work sir.

P.S.  Technically $10 bucks of that chip-in were from you & your wife.  We should play poker again, sometime  ;D

Matt
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on December 04, 2008, 04:39:30 pm

P.S.  Technically $10 bucks of that chip-in were from you & your wife.  We should play poker again, sometime  ;D

Keep talkin' buddy  ;D

Thanks, Matt.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on December 04, 2008, 05:35:55 pm
Daily update.

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/fspadvertising/Phase%20III/phase3_day5.jpg)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on December 05, 2008, 09:34:57 pm
1 more friend today making 6 participants and 6 friends so far.

Daily update.

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/fspadvertising/Phase%20III/phase3_day6.jpg)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: noprivacy on December 06, 2008, 07:51:28 pm
Have you guys try to sell FSP merchandise on eBay?
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Dreepa on December 07, 2008, 10:03:39 am
Have you guys try to sell FSP merchandise on eBay?
I don't think that we have... that is a good idea.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sonio on December 07, 2008, 12:36:36 pm
And what about Cafe Press?
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on December 07, 2008, 12:59:45 pm
Daily update

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/fspadvertising/Phase%20III/phase3_day7.jpg)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Neal Conner on December 07, 2008, 01:39:30 pm
And what about Cafe Press?

CaféPress is absolutely terrible quality.

If you want good quality products, look for my upcoming line of Porc apparel from Amagi Design (produced by Prime Mover Graphics (http://www.primemovergraphics.com/).)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: noprivacy on December 07, 2008, 02:45:02 pm
Have you guys try to sell FSP merchandise on eBay?
I don't think that we have... that is a good idea.

Well, someone is selling a lot of things http://myworld.ebay.com/thinkrevolution/ (http://myworld.ebay.com/thinkrevolution/). (I'm not affiliated with this guy, so I'm not trying to promote his items). Look at the items for sale and the feedback. There are a lot people buying his items.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: noprivacy on December 07, 2008, 02:55:08 pm
And what about Cafe Press?

CaféPress is absolutely terrible quality.

If you want good quality products, look for my upcoming line of Porc apparel from Amagi Design (produced by Prime Mover Graphics (http://www.primemovergraphics.com/).)

If you want to sell Porc apparel. Why not try eBay?

Here's an example of eBay store selling humor/political t-shirt & stickers: http://stores.ebay.com/Ninetwelve-Graphics (http://stores.ebay.com/Ninetwelve-Graphics)

People like the design of those shirts. Look at the feedback (http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=912graphics&&ftab=FeedbackAsSeller&iid=350135189034&sspagename=VIP:feedback:2:us) Lots and lots of Ron Paul t-shirt.

However, eBay has lots and lots of fees. It's not gonna be easy money (is there such thing?). But eBay can be used as marketing tool to get people to go to FSP merchandise page & to check out FSP in general.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Neal Conner on December 07, 2008, 03:03:02 pm
Thanks for the suggestion, but my partners and I have a grander business plan.

Also, let's get back on topic. (Feel free to start an eBay thread, for it's an interesting marketing idea.)

When's the next chipin start? This one should be on the homepage. Also, what would be the cost of targeting everyone who's pro-liberty in Mass, Vermont, and Maine? "Just cross the border already, damnit!"
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on December 07, 2008, 05:01:15 pm
When's the next chipin start?


It will be sometime after December 17 (my last final).

Quote
This one should be on the homepage.


I'll work on making that happen. If that's to be the case, it will need to be done in concert with the FSP this time.  I still have $30 to start another campaign.

Quote
Also, what would be the cost of targeting everyone who's pro-liberty in Mass, Vermont, and Maine? "Just cross the border already, damnit!"

We already did.  We hit everyone who was under 30 first (twice in MA), and then this third phase hit everyone above the age of 30.  Are you thinking we should do it again?
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on December 08, 2008, 12:03:29 pm
Final update for phase III

We've spent exactly $507.86 and raised $530 (minus pay pal fees, but I'm not including those).  That leaves us with $22.41 left over; not enough to do a full campaign.

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/fspadvertising/Phase%20III/phase3_finalupdate.jpg)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Neal Conner on December 10, 2008, 12:38:53 pm
Quote
Also, what would be the cost of targeting everyone who's pro-liberty in Mass, Vermont, and Maine? "Just cross the border already, damnit!"
We already did.  We hit everyone who was under 30 first (twice in MA), and then this third phase hit everyone above the age of 30.  Are you thinking we should do it again?

I was meaning of all ages, but didn't realize all ages had already been encompassed.

Well now the participant counter is moving pretty slow compared to when the facebook campaign was running.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on December 10, 2008, 04:16:19 pm
Well now the participant counter is moving pretty slow compared to when the facebook campaign was running.

It's also getting into the holiday season.  People spend less time online and are more busy.  Happened last year too.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on December 11, 2008, 08:30:25 pm
After the 17th (my last final), I'll be open to starting phase IV of this campaign.  We have a little bit more than $20 left.  I'll e-mail the FSP big whigs to see if the FSP has the money to chip in.  If we do this through the FSP leadership, we can also put the chipin on the front page this time.

Neal suggested, and I think he's right, that we should hit Illinois next.  Any ideas on headlines and text for the Illinois ad?  Keep it simple.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: HelmholtzWatson on December 12, 2008, 11:46:21 pm
After the 17th (my last final), I'll be open to starting phase IV of this campaign.  We have a little bit more than $20 left.  I'll e-mail the FSP big whigs to see if the FSP has the money to chip in.  If we do this through the FSP leadership, we can also put the chipin on the front page this time.

Neal suggested, and I think he's right, that we should hit Illinois next.  Any ideas on headlines and text for the Illinois ad?  Keep it simple.

"The solution to corrupt government is LESS government."
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: JonM on December 14, 2008, 03:45:00 pm
The big wigs gave you a budget.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on December 14, 2008, 04:46:18 pm
The big wigs gave you a budget.

I saw!  ;D

I'll have to balance my books from this campaign and will probably start the "big" campaign ($1500) after Christmas! :).  The $22.41 left over from the other campaign will be rolled over into this one. 
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Neal Conner on December 14, 2008, 11:42:56 pm
Woohoo!  ;D

Congrats on the budget muy grande.

I'll work on some suggestions for an updated landing page (such as multiple high-profile endorsements and popular libertarians who are members.)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on December 15, 2008, 12:36:24 am

I'll work on some suggestions for an updated landing page (such as multiple high-profile endorsements and popular libertarians who are members.)

What if I just added a link to the endorsements page?  http://www.freestateproject.org/about/endorsements
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: dalebert on December 15, 2008, 11:28:39 am
I just shared the link to the Digg post for Will Buchanan's crossing of the state line on my Facebook profile. I encourage everyone to share it and help spread the word, hopefully get more diggs while the video is still young and it has the most potential to go viral on Digg.

http://digg.com/politics/Walking_3_100_miles_for_freedom_the_Walk_For_Liberty
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: MK on December 20, 2008, 01:03:24 pm
sj, your facebook effort is awesome.  I heard some New Yorkers on the radio the other day, talking about all the new "fees" (taxes) and even the radio DJ was talking about MOVING.    It made me think this would be a super good time to target those in this state as the out of control "Guvment" has even the average person suddenly thinking about moving.    Keep up the great work!
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Neal Conner on January 02, 2009, 04:28:08 pm
Updates from the facebook front, comrade?
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on January 02, 2009, 04:48:25 pm
Updates from the facebook front, comrade?

Not really.  I should be starting up a new campaign soon (1-2 weeks).  I'm on break and working feverishly to get up to speed with non-school aspects of my life.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on January 11, 2009, 02:37:46 am
Hey all, we're starting the facebook ads up again!

I've started a new chipin (http://fsp.chipin.com/facebook-ads) for the next phases of our advertising.  I think Illinois should definitely be one of the next states we hit.

http://fsp.chipin.com/facebook-ads

As with the last chipin, the money will go to my personal paypal account and I will spend it, posting daily results here. 

I haven't forgotten that I have $22.41 left over from the last chipin that has yet to be spent.  I've started a campaign that should launch as soon as it's approved that will spend that money over the next 72 hours advertising in IL and IN.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Liberty603 on January 11, 2009, 08:27:44 am
Excellent! I chipped in a few bucks.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on January 11, 2009, 12:30:23 pm
Two more friend signups today.  That makes 6 participants and 7 friends so far.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on January 12, 2009, 12:47:58 pm
Hey everybody...so I see the interest for this has waned significantly.  I'm going to end the chipin, finish spending the 22.41 left over from the last campaign plus the 15 that turbo just chipped in.  I'll spend the 37.41 on IL and IN advertising.  Thanks for all the help, you guys have been great!

Here's the progress of finishing this up.

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/fspadvertising/finishing%20up/finishingup_day2.jpg)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Liberty603 on January 12, 2009, 08:01:23 pm
Great job Seth. I liked your daily updates and it was great to see tangible positive results. Thanks for doing it.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Neal Conner on January 12, 2009, 08:18:31 pm
My interest hasn't waned at all. It's just that I've been busy between semesters, and now finally have time to get back to volunteering.

Closing it down? What happened to the budget from the FSP?
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on January 12, 2009, 08:57:55 pm
Closing it down? What happened to the budget from the FSP?

That's still on :).  I'll start it soon after this current IL and IN campaign are done.  I just don't want to mix volunteer donations with the FSP funds.  I could handle it, but I don't want any donors to worry that their donation wasn't used for what they donated it for.  I felt an obligation to have a verifiable paper trail for every penny donated to show that it was spent and put to good use, and I thought mixing the donations with FSP funds would cloud that.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on January 12, 2009, 09:10:09 pm
I'm considering starting a pledgebank thing, where I will pledge to spend $50 on a facebook campaign aimed at my Alma Mater, only if 4 of other people will do the same, and then link to a thread where I give 4 or 5 steps for how to run a successful facebook campaign, and encourage people to post screen shots of their daily results.

It's easy to do and it's a great way for people who want to help but don't know how to get involved.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: JonM on January 13, 2009, 10:01:39 am
Technically all the FSP's funds are also donations . . .
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on January 13, 2009, 10:03:28 am
Technically all the FSP's funds are also donations . . .

Yes.  I think the reason I kept these donations separate is still clear.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on January 13, 2009, 06:43:03 pm
Daily update:

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/fspadvertising/finishing%20up/finishingup_day3.jpg)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on January 14, 2009, 07:17:11 pm
Daily update:

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/fspadvertising/finishing%20up/finishingup_day4.jpg)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on January 16, 2009, 05:54:49 pm
This is the final update for this venture.  Every penny has been spent, and spent well :).  Thanks everyone!!

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/fspadvertising/finishing%20up/finishingup_day6.jpg)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: K. Darien Freeheart on January 16, 2009, 06:12:54 pm
Can anyone less lazy than me do some number crunching? Recap? Cost per signer?

Quote from: 'Age Old Libertarian Adage'
You should do that!

Nah, not that interested. But if someone's already done it, I'm curious.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Neal Conner on January 17, 2009, 08:25:52 pm
Can anyone less lazy than me do some number crunching? Recap? Cost per signer?

Quote from: 'Age Old Libertarian Adage'
You should do that!

Nah, not that interested. But if someone's already done it, I'm curious.

Whoever would like to do the number crunching should probably get in touch with Jean Jason, who's in charge of the sign-up stats (http://freestateproject.org/about/membership.php).
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on January 18, 2009, 06:27:50 pm
Just got another friend signup from facebook ads.  That makes 6 participants and 8 friends.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: JasonPSorens on January 18, 2009, 08:20:32 pm
Can anyone less lazy than me do some number crunching? Recap? Cost per signer?

Quote from: 'Age Old Libertarian Adage'
You should do that!

Nah, not that interested. But if someone's already done it, I'm curious.

Whoever would like to do the number crunching should probably get in touch with Jean (http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?action=profile;u=743). I believe she's in charge of the sign-up stats (http://freestateproject.org/about/membership.php).

Actually, signup stats have been handed off to me now, though I haven't quite gotten up & running with it yet. But the stats will be coming to me in future.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Dreepa on January 19, 2009, 10:12:32 am
another friend from Facebook today.

And make sure that if the stats are updated... feel free to ping Jason and remind him... he likes that.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Forever_Free on January 21, 2009, 10:48:51 pm
Seth, I was unaware of your campaign here until the other day. I've since read the whole thing and wanted to offer a few possible upgrades if you don't mind.

1) How many other ads have you tested?
2)Why are you 'paying per click'? (not bad, just asking)
3) What other keywords are you targeting?

I've been preparing a campaign too. At first it was going to be for major media buys such as yahoo, aol, etc... but figured I'd start with facebook and do some testing first.

A point about question 2 above... If you are going to 'PPC' then you might want to pre-qualify the visitors by being very specific in your ad. Such as "8962 people are committed to moving to NH to fight for freedom, how about you?" That's really rough but what it'd do is pre-qualify them so that your money would go a whole lot further. The clicks would take much longer but they'd be that much more valuable.

My campaign will be CPM (cost per 1000 ads). I'll use a different approach that will get mega clicks but those clicks won't be as valuable. And since I'm paying per 1000 ads (and not by the click) then all those extra clicks won't cost anything.

A final note about both our campaigns. I hope you don't see this as a competition. Having two campaigns is GREAT! And it's a perfect test to test different ads and methods.

Your ally,

Hunter

Added: I read your post below and yes, I'll start a thread. Here's the facebook 'cause' I started. All are encouraged to signup. http://apps.facebook.com/causes/196755?m=fa5edc14&recruiter_id=40487336
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on January 21, 2009, 10:52:47 pm
I'm thrilled to finally have some competition!  ;D  Please start a thread and keep us updated. 

I haven't tested any real variations on the ad.  I pay per click because I have experience with it.  I'm only targeting 4 keywords: ron paul, libertarian, ayn rand, campaign for liberty.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Forever_Free on January 24, 2009, 09:04:16 pm

Here's a test I did and it worked for a day. ...Create your exact same ad and give it the lowest CPC possible. It says .01 (one cent) is possible but it's not. Then it'll give you the REAL lowest cpc. And go with that. That way, you pay the absolute lowest and you only pay when clicked.

Something else I'd do with yours (logo) is target ONLY 1 keyword per ad. You can then use THAT keyword for THAT ad. For example, keyword 'guns'. You can use the word 'guns' in you ad copy and target just them. It's more targeted.

Hunter
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on January 30, 2009, 02:13:29 am
Just finished a 7 day campaign in 12 states (IL IN MI WI IA MN NE SD ND WY MT ID).  This one was funded out of the FSP general fund.  It cost a about $230 (the whole cost isn't shown below because I deleted one of the campaigns midway to change it from CPC to CPM).  We got at least 4 participants, so that makes a grand total of 10 participants and 8 friends so far.

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/fspadvertising/12MWstates.jpg)


Here's the uptick in the landing page visits from the recent facebook campaign I just finished

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/fspadvertising/2008election.jpg)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Forever_Free on January 30, 2009, 05:12:41 pm
Kinda funny how FSP pays $230 for your campaigns and yet nothing to
test a new campaign, which I think has proven to have huge potential.

Politics, even in FSP!
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Forever_Free on January 30, 2009, 05:27:35 pm
And we'd know for sure if the stats graph would be updated.

http://www.freestateproject.org/community/membership
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on January 30, 2009, 06:47:19 pm
And we'd know for sure if the stats graph would be updated.

http://www.freestateproject.org/community/membership

If you're volunteering to take over that job, I'm sure Jean would love the help!  She works very hard behind the scenes.

Kinda funny how FSP pays $230 for your campaigns and yet nothing to
test a new campaign, which I think has proven to have huge potential.

Politics, even in FSP!

Regarding the funding I got from the board, I've been the "director of web advertising" (i.e., I volunteered) about 18 months longer than you've been a member of this forum.  While that doesn't entitle me to anything, it would suggest that I got the funding because I've been volunteering long enough and have been around doing stuff long enough that I'm a known commodity...so they feel comfortable entrusting me with funds.  I'll also note that I wasn't ever given funds or made a moderator on this board till people met me in person last June at PorcFest.

I appreciate what you're doing, but consider that I ran the campaign that this thread started for months before I was given funding to continue it.  I gave detailed, daily updates and got the funding through donors in the beginning.  You just posted about this a week or two ago. 

I'm not saying you shouldn't keep it up, but keep it in perspective.  I appreciate what you're doing and believe in it.  That's why I donated (an admittedly tiny amount...but, hey I'm poor!  ;D)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Dreepa on January 31, 2009, 11:09:24 am
Kinda funny how FSP pays $230 for your campaigns and yet nothing to
test a new campaign, which I think has proven to have huge potential.

Politics, even in FSP!
Did you even ask the board? 

Seth did his test pilot with donations first.
Then the FSP just funded him.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Dreepa on January 31, 2009, 11:10:53 am
also we should only one run campaign at a time on Facebook  that way we can tell which one is effective.


* yes I did donate (a small amount) to the campaign.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on January 31, 2009, 01:47:22 pm
also we should only one run campaign at a time on Facebook  that way we can tell which one is effective.


* yes I did donate (a small amount) to the campaign.

I'm willing to coordinate with Hunter, if he asks.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on February 18, 2009, 09:26:49 am
Just so everyone knows, I've started the final campaign in the last 20 states we haven't hit on facebook.  It should cost about $400 over 7 days. 

I will note that signup rates are noticeably lower whenever we're not advertising.  During our advertising campaigns, we get a lot of signups that don't list advertising as where they heard about us...but the difference in signup rates suggests they're related.  Friend signup rates also increase during advertising campaigns.


--edit-- for purposes of record-keeping

Before this 20-state campaign, I also completed a campaign in OR WA CA NV UT cost was $111.24 and netted 1 participant and 2 friends for a total of 11 participants and 10 friends.  I also ran a gun-control-specific campaign for $57.11.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sonio on February 18, 2009, 02:04:20 pm
I JUST SAW A FSP AD ON FACEBOOK IN TN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Wild Coyote on February 22, 2009, 03:47:32 am
Just so everyone knows, I've started the final campaign in the last 20 states we haven't hit on facebook.  It should cost about $400 over 7 days. 

I will note that signup rates are noticeably lower whenever we're not advertising.  During our advertising campaigns, we get a lot of signups that don't list advertising as where they heard about us...but the difference in signup rates suggests they're related.  Friend signup rates also increase during advertising campaigns.

Is there a place to contribute for this?
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on February 22, 2009, 08:12:13 am
Just so everyone knows, I've started the final campaign in the last 20 states we haven't hit on facebook.  It should cost about $400 over 7 days. 

I will note that signup rates are noticeably lower whenever we're not advertising.  During our advertising campaigns, we get a lot of signups that don't list advertising as where they heard about us...but the difference in signup rates suggests they're related.  Friend signup rates also increase during advertising campaigns.

Is there a place to contribute for this?

I stopped taking contributions once the interest waned.  I'll set up another chipin sometime in the future though, if there's interest.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: mike888777 on February 22, 2009, 04:07:29 pm
Just curious sj, do you thinkl a $100 donation would help the fsp more in a facebook ad or more as a amper for ftl where a $100 would last almost 3 years.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on February 22, 2009, 09:32:13 pm
Just curious sj, do you thinkl a $100 donation would help the fsp more in a facebook ad or more as a amper for ftl where a $100 would last almost 3 years.

I'd go with facebook ads, though AMPing FTL is definitely a good cause.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on February 24, 2009, 01:52:59 am
Well, just finished a campaign that hit the remaining 20 states we hadn't hit.  As of today, we have completed campaigns in all of the 49 other states.  Since this is the last of it, for awhile, I'm removing this as a sticky. 

From this last 20-state campaign alone, we received 6 participants, 12 friends and 2 pioneers (for a grand total of 17 participants, 22 friends and 2 pioneers).  Cost was $436.22 (for a grand total of $1366.20 - That figures to about $80 per signup, a rate about $20 cheaper than past advertising, and that's not even factoring in the 22 friends and 2 pioneers).  Also, I see the signup rate jump a lot when we're running ads, and, even though not all of them put "Facebook ads" as the place they heard about us, I know that many of them did hear about us that way, so I think we received even more than 17 participants from these campaigns)  This was a very, very successful enterprise, and I hope it is repeated in the future.

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/fspadvertising/fspfunded3.jpg)
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: JasonPSorens on February 24, 2009, 10:32:33 am
This was a very, very successful enterprise, and I hope it is repeated in the future.


Definitely. What a great idea this was, Seth.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: RichW on February 24, 2009, 12:35:08 pm
Thanks for all the hard work Seth.  No doubt, this campaign was very successful.  We should repeat it in 6 months or a year.  Someone with good statistical skills should be able to estimate how many of the other signups were likely due to the Facebook campaign.  One could clearly see a marked increase in signup rates during the advertising periods.  Many of the signers not listing Facebook as a place they heard about us, must have come from there.

Great campaign.  What's next?
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: sj on February 24, 2009, 12:44:12 pm
What's next?

That depends on budget/donations.  We'll continue our LRC Podcast advertising and should be placing an ad in the first issue of Young American Revolution (http://www.yaliberty.org/yar.php) if all goes well.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Dreepa on February 24, 2009, 08:07:02 pm
We have a chance to have a table at each of the Campaign for Liberty Events.

Do we have anyone in St Louis?

Please PM me.
Title: Re: FSP Recruiting on Facebook
Post by: Russell Kanning on February 24, 2009, 09:22:39 pm
We have a chance to have a table at each of the Campaign for Liberty Events.

Do we have anyone in St Louis?

Please PM me.
the guy on the nhunderground forum called less nessman might be able to help