Free State Project Forum

FSP Community => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: fschmidt on June 11, 2008, 02:41:42 pm

Title: Regulate Noise?
Post by: fschmidt on June 11, 2008, 02:41:42 pm
Please see the related thread here:

http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?topic=15358
Title: Re: Regulate Noise?
Post by: MaineShark on June 11, 2008, 02:49:52 pm
As I've said elsewhere, you don't get to put a gun to someone's head just because their dog is barking...

Absolutely not.  No way, no how.

Joe
Title: Re: Regulate Noise?
Post by: techforumz on June 12, 2008, 01:31:26 am
I think that this should be decided at a private level. If the neighbors disagree, they can vot e for regulations for that cluster of houses that are so affected. not quite town level, but close enough. However, as an individual, I don't think their should be, but I wouldn't enforce it nationally.
Title: Re: Regulate Noise?
Post by: fschmidt on June 12, 2008, 02:17:34 am
I agree that deciding this on a cluster of houses level is even better than at a town level.  But since this concept doesn't really exist, the closest choice is the town level.  Of course a town could then make their noise ordinance say that this should be decided by house clusters in the town.
Title: Re: Regulate Noise?
Post by: NHArticleTen on June 12, 2008, 05:35:08 am
I agree that deciding this on a cluster of houses level is even better than at a town level.  But since this concept doesn't really exist, the closest choice is the town level.  Of course a town could then make their noise ordinance say that this should be decided by house clusters in the town.


you are wrong!

if ten neighbors agree...and then relate their desires to the noisy neighbor...the noisy one will probably quiet down...unless they use the illegitimate aggression/force/fraud of some supposed "state" to continue their noise-making...

also...
I think ten neighbors could create more combined noise than one neighbor...and at various times that the noisy neighbor might not enjoy...

after all...
turn-about is fair play...

RAD

Title: Re: Regulate Noise?
Post by: MaineShark on June 12, 2008, 07:36:51 am
I agree that deciding this on a cluster of houses level is even better than at a town level.  But since this concept doesn't really exist, the closest choice is the town level.

Yes, it does exist.  It's called a "neighborhood association" or something similar.

It's based upon a contractual agreement between neighbors.

Joe
Title: The correct opinion
Post by: TomAlciere on June 14, 2008, 08:08:04 pm
The correct opinion is that persons have a right to a decibel level unharmful to themselves. Blasting noise onto somebody else's property violates that person's rights.

This also means that whatever decibel level the limit is, must be uniform throughout the State. Any decibel level harmful to persons in Nashua is harmful to persons in Pittsburg.

Furthermore, governments have no right to punish night shift workers by allowing loud noise (trucks, discotheques) during the daytime hours when night shift workers are trying to sleep while banning such noise in nighttime hours when day shift workers are trying to sleep.

Tom Alciere
Title: Re: Regulate Noise?
Post by: NHArticleTen on June 15, 2008, 05:57:28 am
I agree that deciding this on a cluster of houses level is even better than at a town level.  But since this concept doesn't really exist, the closest choice is the town level.

Yes, it does exist.  It's called a "neighborhood association" or something similar.

It's based upon a contractual agreement between neighbors.

Joe

Obviously Joe is quite correct here...

Furthermore, the standard for the agreement is "totally voluntary uncoerced unanimous consent" and, as such, the agreement could even quite possibly prohibit the sound from automobiles, children, and dogs...

Keep up the great work Joe!

Title: Re: The correct opinion
Post by: NHArticleTen on June 15, 2008, 06:09:13 am
The correct opinion is that persons have a right to a decibel level unharmful to themselves. Blasting noise onto somebody else's property violates that person's rights.

This also means that whatever decibel level the limit is, must be uniform throughout the State. Any decibel level harmful to persons in Nashua is harmful to persons in Pittsburg.

Furthermore, governments have no right to punish night shift workers by allowing loud noise (trucks, discotheques) during the daytime hours when night shift workers are trying to sleep while banning such noise in nighttime hours when day shift workers are trying to sleep.

Tom Alciere


While I agree that Individual Sovereign Human Beings shouldn't harm one another with sound(or anything else)...I can't imagine a "standard" could ever be determined since some people have a condition upon which, even very "minor" sounds create great pain...

Except, of course, in a situation of unanimous consent between all community inhabitants...for whatever "level" of sound they mutually agreed upon...

Furthermore, BEFORE someone else came into the community they would be required to read, understand, and also voluntarily consent and comply to that "level"...

They would NOT be permitted to locate themselves there...and then use the aggression/force/fraud of the "state" or mob "majority" to create a division and perpetrate discontent and disharmony amongst the current inhabitants...

Although, at the same time, no "policies" could or would be "adopted" that violated the Non-Aggression Principle...

I'm quite sure that, as long as we continue to repel and destroy the looters, bureaucrats, jackboots, and mercenaries...and continue to be students and advocates of the Non-Aggression Principle...

We'll do just fine...

Enjoy!

Title: Re: Regulate Noise?
Post by: J’raxis 270145 on June 16, 2008, 04:41:26 pm
Strategically, I’d agree with #1—the State protecting people’s rights by prohibiting the towns from passing stupid laws (e.g., firearm preëmption laws)—but honestly, the poll needs a simple “no” option. If you want quiet, invest in soundproofing or large amounts of desolate land.
Title: Re: The correct opinion
Post by: John Edward Mercier on June 16, 2008, 05:01:14 pm
The correct opinion is that persons have a right to a decibel level unharmful to themselves. Blasting noise onto somebody else's property violates that person's rights.

This also means that whatever decibel level the limit is, must be uniform throughout the State. Any decibel level harmful to persons in Nashua is harmful to persons in Pittsburg.

Furthermore, governments have no right to punish night shift workers by allowing loud noise (trucks, discotheques) during the daytime hours when night shift workers are trying to sleep while banning such noise in nighttime hours when day shift workers are trying to sleep.

Tom Alciere


While I agree that Individual Sovereign Human Beings shouldn't harm one another with sound(or anything else)...I can't imagine a "standard" could ever be determined since some people have a condition upon which, even very "minor" sounds create great pain...

Except, of course, in a situation of unanimous consent between all community inhabitants...for whatever "level" of sound they mutually agreed upon...

Furthermore, BEFORE someone else came into the community they would be required to read, understand, and also voluntarily consent and comply to that "level"...

They would NOT be permitted to locate themselves there...and then use the aggression/force/fraud of the "state" or mob "majority" to create a division and perpetrate discontent and disharmony amongst the current inhabitants...

Although, at the same time, no "policies" could or would be "adopted" that violated the Non-Aggression Principle...

I'm quite sure that, as long as we continue to repel and destroy the looters, bureaucrats, jackboots, and mercenaries...and continue to be students and advocates of the Non-Aggression Principle...

We'll do just fine...

Enjoy!


So now they have to have CONSENT as to where they can live?
Title: Re: Regulate Noise?
Post by: John Edward Mercier on June 16, 2008, 05:09:34 pm
Strategically, I’d agree with #1—the State protecting people’s rights by prohibiting the towns from passing stupid laws (e.g., firearm preëmption laws)—but honestly, the poll needs a simple “no” option. If you want quiet, invest in soundproofing or large amounts of desolate land.

Not so much the State, but the NH Constitution which limits the role of government... does prohibit enforcing certain laws/ordinances.
As Tom stated, an ordinance that limited sound at night... but not during all times would be considered unconstitutional.