Free State Project Forum

FSP -- General Discussion => The Friendly Forum => Topic started by: Avtodidakt on April 17, 2008, 03:34:58 am

Title: FSP roommates
Post by: Avtodidakt on April 17, 2008, 03:34:58 am
Since finding out about this project, I've been juggling with the idea of running off to New Hampshire, either this fall, or two years from now, after earning my Associate's - assuming I do decide to go to college at all. Are there any groups that have come together to share expenses in multi-bedroom apartments, farmhouses, etc?
Title: Re: FSP roommates
Post by: Ron Helwig on April 17, 2008, 07:30:10 am
Porc Manor (http://porcmanor.com) lists the primary known porcupine landlords.
Title: Re: FSP roommates
Post by: FTL_Ian on April 17, 2008, 02:23:08 pm
College is a scam. 

Some people in Keene are looking for a roommate:
http://nhunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=12754.msg234553#msg234553

http://move.freekeene.com
Title: Re: FSP roommates
Post by: Keyser Soce on April 17, 2008, 02:36:32 pm
College is a scam. 


Agreed.

Results clearly show that the path of paying for a college education is clearly not worth the cost. The higher earnings later do not compensate for the money spent on tuition early on.

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:7qDXhhvzHnoJ:homepages.udayton.edu/~jenninal/aj5_Module7_PV.doc+college+degree+worthwhile+beneficial&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us&client=firefox-a

According to the Forbes list of the 400 wealthiest Americans, 4 out of the top 5 are college dropouts

http://willblogforfood.typepad.com/will_blog_for_food/2005/12/you_hear_all_th.html
Title: Re: FSP roommates
Post by: sj on April 17, 2008, 03:27:02 pm
College is a scam. 


Agreed.

Results clearly show that the path of paying for a college education is clearly not worth the cost. The higher earnings later do not compensate for the money spent on tuition early on.

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:7qDXhhvzHnoJ:homepages.udayton.edu/~jenninal/aj5_Module7_PV.doc+college+degree+worthwhile+beneficial&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us&client=firefox-a

According to the Forbes list of the 400 wealthiest Americans, 4 out of the top 5 are college dropouts

http://willblogforfood.typepad.com/will_blog_for_food/2005/12/you_hear_all_th.html

Most people aren't going to be the "richest people in America" so that doesn't apply to most of us.  I also question the earnings versus tuition based on the fact that many people go to college and study completely unmarketable subjects like literature, sociology or <fill in the blank> studies.  I imagine such people bring the average return down further than it would be for people who study business, math, science, engineering, etc.

Just doing the math, if you go to community college for two years ($3K for 4 semesters = $12K) and a state university for 2 ($6K for 4 semesters = $24K), you've spent $36K on college.  Not counting inflation, if you earn just $3600 more per year based on your degree, it will pay itself back in 10 years.  If I was interested enough, we could calculate the amount extra you'd have to earn if you include inflation, but it wouldn't change the calculation much.
Title: Re: FSP roommates
Post by: Avtodidakt on April 17, 2008, 04:11:46 pm
Aye, that's an internal (and external, as it seems to be the greatest source of peer pressure for me) conflict I've been bouncing back and forth with for a long time now. I certainly don't disagree that the necessity of going to college has been overblown - one might go so far as to say that it's simply a tool for social engineering - and it's comforting to know that there are plenty of adults out there who understand this. However, I have some rather...lofty goals in mind for the future, specifically getting into politics and working my way up as far as possible (congress is the golden goose egg), using psychology/sociology as a reform platform.

Granted, if I were more inwardly focused, I'd make a beeline for some sort of tradeskill and avoid the temptation to enter into a university, but in lieu of the political climate I feel a certain responsibility to take the aforementioned path. I just don't see how I could possibly accomplish that without a degree. Plus, the community college I would be attending has a work-study program that covers the majority of the tuition. Of course, if anyone can point me in the right direction, please do, because I really would like to side-step college.
Title: Re: FSP roommates
Post by: Keyser Soce on April 17, 2008, 06:49:54 pm
College is a scam. 


Agreed.

Results clearly show that the path of paying for a college education is clearly not worth the cost. The higher earnings later do not compensate for the money spent on tuition early on.

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:7qDXhhvzHnoJ:homepages.udayton.edu/~jenninal/aj5_Module7_PV.doc+college+degree+worthwhile+beneficial&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us&client=firefox-a

According to the Forbes list of the 400 wealthiest Americans, 4 out of the top 5 are college dropouts

http://willblogforfood.typepad.com/will_blog_for_food/2005/12/you_hear_all_th.html

Just doing the math, if you go to community college for two years ($3K for 4 semesters = $12K) and a state university for 2 ($6K for 4 semesters = $24K), you've spent $36K on college.  Not counting inflation, if you earn just $3600 more per year based on your degree, it will pay itself back in 10 years.  If I was interested enough, we could calculate the amount extra you'd have to earn if you include inflation, but it wouldn't change the calculation much.

I have seen the statistics before from a different source and it's much worse than you make it out to be. 36k is very low to begin with and where is the cost of books and other supplies? Most students go further into debt during that time and then there's interest on that debt. Most importantly, they've missed 4 years in the workplace so not only do you have to count all they spent for 4 years but all they didn't earn for 4 years.

I'll try to find the more detailed stats but if I remember correctly, everything taken into account, women and minorities with a 4 year degree over their lifetimes made maybe 6% - 8% more. And that's certainly no guarantee, not that there are any.

If your goal is to be upper middle class, college is probably a good idea. If your goal is to be rich, it's likely a waste of time. If your goal is to learn and educate yourself, there are better and cheaper ways. If your goal is to be free, you most definitely don't want to spend your life working for someone else in which case a degree is almost worthless IMO.

I know lots of small and medium size business owners. The people with degrees work for them.
Title: Re: FSP roommates
Post by: TEBON on April 17, 2008, 08:19:24 pm
maybe you could consider the Seacoast, a little town called FREEBROOK hehe Seabrook rather.
Title: Re: FSP roommates
Post by: Avtodidakt on April 17, 2008, 08:40:37 pm
Care to elaborate? I'd assume the coast would be outrageously expensive to live on
Title: Re: FSP roommates
Post by: FTL_Ian on April 21, 2008, 04:25:03 pm
Just doing the math, if you go to community college for two years ($3K for 4 semesters = $12K) and a state university for 2 ($6K for 4 semesters = $24K), you've spent $36K on college.  Not counting inflation, if you earn just $3600 more per year based on your degree, it will pay itself back in 10 years.  If I was interested enough, we could calculate the amount extra you'd have to earn if you include inflation, but it wouldn't change the calculation much.

I wish I could have my 2 years back.  I actually had to unlearn the shit they taught me.
Title: Re: FSP roommates
Post by: lastlady on April 21, 2008, 05:43:34 pm
College is a scam. 


Agreed.

Results clearly show that the path of paying for a college education is clearly not worth the cost. The higher earnings later do not compensate for the money spent on tuition early on.

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:7qDXhhvzHnoJ:homepages.udayton.edu/~jenninal/aj5_Module7_PV.doc+college+degree+worthwhile+beneficial&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us&client=firefox-a

According to the Forbes list of the 400 wealthiest Americans, 4 out of the top 5 are college dropouts

http://willblogforfood.typepad.com/will_blog_for_food/2005/12/you_hear_all_th.html

Most people aren't going to be the "richest people in America" so that doesn't apply to most of us.  I also question the earnings versus tuition based on the fact that many people go to college and study completely unmarketable subjects like literature, sociology or <fill in the blank> studies.  I imagine such people bring the average return down further than it would be for people who study business, math, science, engineering, etc.

Just doing the math, if you go to community college for two years ($3K for 4 semesters = $12K) and a state university for 2 ($6K for 4 semesters = $24K), you've spent $36K on college.  Not counting inflation, if you earn just $3600 more per year based on your degree, it will pay itself back in 10 years.  If I was interested enough, we could calculate the amount extra you'd have to earn if you include inflation, but it wouldn't change the calculation much.

My college experience was a little different and my income did go up after I had my degree, but I don't think it was the little piece of paper that mattered. First I went to a liberal arts college where it had student directed interdisciplinary programs and the students were not graded but we evaluated ourselves and our professors. What I gained from going to school was access to all of the equipment for still photography, motion picture film, and labs, darkrooms, cameras, editing bays,  ect...

I was able to have complete access to many items that would have cost me hundreds of thousands of dollars to rent or purchase. I also was in an environment that fostered growth and learning. Of course you don't have to go to school to have a group that learns from each other, but access to the equipment and labs was for me the prize jewel. I started college later in life I think I was about 27, I really enjoyed taking the time off from working and basically spent all my time studying and creating whatever I wanted.

As far as numbers my income went up about 60% after college.
Title: Re: FSP roommates
Post by: maxxoccupancy on April 21, 2008, 06:39:01 pm
A large number of people drop out of college, including myself.  Even with a BS degree, which averages just over five years nowadays, it's almost impossible to recoup the expenses.  If you could take enough AP and summer courses to get it down to three years, or work your way through school, it might make more sense.

Otherwise, you're better off just with a trade or two.

On the original topic, sort of, I am having a party at my place in Seabrook this Sunday at 5pm for those who'd like to get a look at the town--probably the most libertarian town in the seacoast region. I've got the details listed.
Title: Re: FSP roommates
Post by: lastlady on April 21, 2008, 06:47:04 pm
I know this is off topic for the subject line. But following this thread, is college really all about making money. That certainly is not the reason I went to school, but I suppose this is what most people go for is to get a job and earn money.

But is this the sole purpose of "getting" an education? Are there other things one can get from school?


Title: Re: FSP roommates
Post by: J’raxis 270145 on April 21, 2008, 07:44:49 pm
College is a scam. 

In the past, the peasants were kept in line through lifelong, and hereditary, debt.

That’s not legal anymore. So now the system just convinces most Americans to indebt themselves, at least for a significant portion of their life, by the time they turn eighteen. And of course by the the student loans are paid off, most Americans have a mortgage… or endless credit card payments… or an expensive health crisis… or…



Ever wonder why student loans are one of the only debts—they might even be the only debt—that can’t be vacated by a bankruptcy filing?
Title: Re: FSP roommates
Post by: J’raxis 270145 on April 21, 2008, 07:48:21 pm
I know this is off topic for the subject line. But following this thread, is college really all about making money. That certainly is not the reason I went to school, but I suppose this is what most people go for is to get a job and earn money.

But is this the sole purpose of "getting" an education?

It is. Read John Taylor Gatto’s books on the public school systems; he talks about the true purpose of modern colleges in there, too. It’s not about getting “an education” anymore: Universities are “engines of economic growth” and it’s all about producing useful (employable… useable) skilled workers for the system.
Title: Re: FSP roommates
Post by: lastlady on April 21, 2008, 08:29:42 pm
I know this is off topic for the subject line. But following this thread, is college really all about making money. That certainly is not the reason I went to school, but I suppose this is what most people go for is to get a job and earn money.

But is this the sole purpose of "getting" an education?

It is. Read John Taylor Gatto’s books on the public school systems; he talks about the true purpose of modern colleges in there, too. It’s not about getting “an education” anymore: Universities are “engines of economic growth” and it’s all about producing useful (employable… useable) skilled workers for the system.

Well all I can say for me this is not the case, although I did benefit financially after I graduated, it could be said I would have anyway. I did not go to school to earn more money or "get" a career. I went to study and be in an environment that fostered me to do so. If I had went to school to earn more money or get a career, I wouldn't have decided to work on an opticle printer, or work with 16mm film instead of digital, or work with a number of things that were / are are relics of the past.





 
Title: Re: FSP roommates
Post by: rossby on April 21, 2008, 08:55:50 pm
College is a scam. 

In the past, the peasants were kept in line through lifelong, and hereditary, debt.

That’s not legal anymore. So now the system just convinces most Americans to indebt themselves, at least for a significant portion of their life, by the time they turn eighteen. And of course by the the student loans are paid off, most Americans have a mortgage… or endless credit card payments… or an expensive health crisis… or…

Ever wonder why student loans are one of the only debts—they might even be the only debt—that can’t be vacated by a bankruptcy filing?

Mark Twain has a great quote (or at least it's attributed to him): "I've never let my schooling interfere with my education."

I went to a 4-year college. It was very expensive. Not a day goes by that I don't seriously regret spending the money. My alumni office contacted me this year, asking me to contact some prospective students: tuition started at $45,000 per academic year for 2008. Yikes, eh?

College is sold to unwitting teenagers as something that is necessary to get a good-paying job. Sure college graduates, on average do make more. But you need to factor in the sunk costs of attending school.And it is about making money--but largely for the institutional lenders. It's a very safe investment.

Unfortunately, a bachelor's degree is often legally required to pursue careers you may have interest in (e.g., law, medicine).

Just another note, as I ramble on mindlessly--as I seem to be doing a lot lately--you can get school debt wiped out in bankruptcy. It's just very hard to do.
Title: Re: FSP roommates
Post by: Dreepa on April 22, 2008, 08:54:47 am
My degree has nothing to do with what I do for a living.
I learned lots in college.... that had nothing to do with my degree.
Some places won't hire without a degree.

Also the 4 out of 5 that are college dropouts.... all went to college.

But back to the topic... yes there are at least 5 houses that I can think of that are 'FSP houses' of many 'singles' living together.
Some move in for a few months and then move out on their own.  Some don't.

Title: Re: FSP roommates
Post by: VinceSinclaire on May 19, 2008, 04:30:06 pm
I love how far off this discussion went :)
But well, when we move in early oh nine,
we'll definitely be looking. we'll be happy for any help and to help.
dont know where we're moving to yet in NH, but i guess it depends on what all we can find, huh?
^_^

~Trist.
Title: Re: FSP roommates
Post by: techforumz on June 11, 2008, 02:37:38 am
All right, then with all this talk of whether college is worth it... Is it possible for one to succeed without one? And correct me if I'm wrong, but, isn't college more about that paper than about actually learning? I learn more on the internet than at school, WAY more. They don't teach the difference between SDR and DDR SDRAM, the difference between an ARM x86, 6502, x86-64, EM64T, etc... In college they probably do, but is there anything I CAN'T learn online for significantly less? And what about online colleges?
Title: Re: FSP roommates
Post by: margomaps on June 11, 2008, 08:55:25 am
All right, then with all this talk of whether college is worth it... Is it possible for one to succeed without one? And correct me if I'm wrong, but, isn't college more about that paper than about actually learning? I learn more on the internet than at school, WAY more. They don't teach the difference between SDR and DDR SDRAM, the difference between an ARM x86, 6502, x86-64, EM64T, etc... In college they probably do, but is there anything I CAN'T learn online for significantly less? And what about online colleges?

For a specialized technical skill like you're talking about, you might consider a technical/vocational school.  I realize sometimes there's a stigma attached with these types of schools, like they're for the people who "couldn't hack it" in college or something like that.  That could be the case for some people -- I don't know.  But if your goal is to learn a lot of specialized knowledge about computer hardware (and perhaps system administration), maybe look into it.  There are also a variety of technical certifications that could be quite valuable in building a career.  I know Microsoft has a series of courses/certifications that often pop up on people's resumes.  At least do a little research down that avenue before deciding on what to do next.

I personally thought college was a pretty great experience.  I learned some things that would have been pretty difficult to learn on my own.  I had fun in college too.  But was it all worth the cost?  I don't know.  Certainly the degree qualified me for a high paying job that I wouldn't have had otherwise, but who knows what would have happened had I gone down another path?  Maybe I would have gone into business for myself and be better off than I am today?  Sorry, this probably isn't helping you much.  :)
Title: Re: FSP roommates
Post by: techforumz on June 11, 2008, 08:43:33 pm
All right, then with all this talk of whether college is worth it... Is it possible for one to succeed without one? And correct me if I'm wrong, but, isn't college more about that paper than about actually learning? I learn more on the internet than at school, WAY more. They don't teach the difference between SDR and DDR SDRAM, the difference between an ARM x86, 6502, x86-64, EM64T, etc... In college they probably do, but is there anything I CAN'T learn online for significantly less? And what about online colleges?

For a specialized technical skill like you're talking about, you might consider a technical/vocational school.  I realize sometimes there's a stigma attached with these types of schools, like they're for the people who "couldn't hack it" in college or something like that.  That could be the case for some people -- I don't know.  But if your goal is to learn a lot of specialized knowledge about computer hardware (and perhaps system administration), maybe look into it.  There are also a variety of technical certifications that could be quite valuable in building a career.  I know Microsoft has a series of courses/certifications that often pop up on people's resumes.  At least do a little research down that avenue before deciding on what to do next.

I personally thought college was a pretty great experience.  I learned some things that would have been pretty difficult to learn on my own.  I had fun in college too.  But was it all worth the cost?  I don't know.  Certainly the degree qualified me for a high paying job that I wouldn't have had otherwise, but who knows what would have happened had I gone down another path?  Maybe I would have gone into business for myself and be better off than I am today?  Sorry, this probably isn't helping you much.  :)
Perhaps I'm being entirely impractical, but I would like to start my own business and sell custom PCs, and repair PCs, setup linux networks (yup, I'm a non-M$ guy), etc... The problem is, that licenses are expensive, no? And don't I need to send some special sort of sales tax (in most places.) furthermore, the IRS is currently assaulting those aspiring to start our business, dependent upon others, but decentralized, and besides, couldn't I trade metals, something untaxable AND valuable?!?! But it probably looks good for the business for me to have a degree of some kind.
Title: Re: FSP roommates
Post by: margomaps on June 11, 2008, 09:44:23 pm
Perhaps I'm being entirely impractical, but I would like to start my own business and sell custom PCs, and repair PCs, setup linux networks (yup, I'm a non-M$ guy), etc... The problem is, that licenses are expensive, no? And don't I need to send some special sort of sales tax (in most places.) furthermore, the IRS is currently assaulting those aspiring to start our business, dependent upon others, but decentralized, and besides, couldn't I trade metals, something untaxable AND valuable?!?! But it probably looks good for the business for me to have a degree of some kind.

I'm not sure what kind of license you're talking about.  If you're talking about a "business license" or some such...then no.  Not in NH.  For some businesses, you just need to put a sign in your yard.  Others might have a small license fee, but I do mean small ($100 maybe?).

Sales tax?  Not in NH.

IRS assaulting business owners?  Well, the IRS rules for business deductions and expenses can be complex, I'll grant you that.  But there are vast numbers of small business owners in NH, so it's likely not as hard as it might at first seem.

Trading metals...untaxable?  I assume you mean accepting payment in silver/gold/etc. for your services.  That's taxable.  Though a recent court case in NV (of all places!) involved a business owner paying his employees in silver eagles/gold eagles.  He and his employees only declared their wages as the face value of the coins ($1 and $20, respectively), rather than the market value of the gold content (roughly $15/$800 at the time).  The IRS sued them, but they weren't convicted.  Presumably the IRS is preparing to sue them again.
Title: Re: FSP roommates
Post by: techforumz on June 12, 2008, 12:21:29 am
Perhaps I'm being entirely impractical, but I would like to start my own business and sell custom PCs, and repair PCs, setup linux networks (yup, I'm a non-M$ guy), etc... The problem is, that licenses are expensive, no? And don't I need to send some special sort of sales tax (in most places.) furthermore, the IRS is currently assaulting those aspiring to start our business, dependent upon others, but decentralized, and besides, couldn't I trade metals, something untaxable AND valuable?!?! But it probably looks good for the business for me to have a degree of some kind.

I'm not sure what kind of license you're talking about.  If you're talking about a "business license" or some such...then no.  Not in NH.  For some businesses, you just need to put a sign in your yard.  Others might have a small license fee, but I do mean small ($100 maybe?).

Sales tax?  Not in NH.

IRS assaulting business owners?  Well, the IRS rules for business deductions and expenses can be complex, I'll grant you that.  But there are vast numbers of small business owners in NH, so it's likely not as hard as it might at first seem.

Trading metals...untaxable?  I assume you mean accepting payment in silver/gold/etc. for your services.  That's taxable.  Though a recent court case in NV (of all places!) involved a business owner paying his employees in silver eagles/gold eagles.  He and his employees only declared their wages as the face value of the coins ($1 and $20, respectively), rather than the market value of the gold content (roughly $15/$800 at the time).  The IRS sued them, but they weren't convicted.  Presumably the IRS is preparing to sue them again.
Okay, metals taxable, got it. What isn't? Milk, eggs, computer junk, what!?!? Business license $100? I though it was in the range of a new car. All the better, no sense griping about what isn't bad... About the IRS thing, do business owners pay more income tax than standard people, and should I consider going "insurrection" ;)?
Title: Re: FSP roommates
Post by: Fishercat on June 12, 2008, 08:45:03 am
...Business license $100? I though it was in the range of a new car. All the better, no sense griping about what isn't bad...

Registering a Limited Liability Company with the state is $100 per year.  Some "licenses" are required beyond that for some businesses (see Manicurist protests elsewhere) but not all.   I don't think you need one to do computer repair, but you might want to research it for yourself.

Quote
About the IRS thing, do business owners pay more income tax than standard people, and should I consider going "insurrection" ;)?

(For NH taxes)
Standard people (i.e. employees) pay 0% tax on wage income.   (There is a tax on interest and dividends, over a threshold).
Business owners pay something less than 1% on profit, once it is over a threshold.   Something like $50-60,000 per year?
Title: Re: FSP roommates
Post by: MaineShark on June 12, 2008, 10:03:35 am
Okay, metals taxable, got it. What isn't? Milk, eggs, computer junk, what!?!?

Theoretically, you are "supposed to" report any income, regardless of the type.  Theoretically...

Business license $100? I though it was in the range of a new car.

No business licenses in NH.  You can pay $50 if you want to register a trade name with the State, which can help you avoid getting sued if someone else comes up with the same name, and decides to fight you about using it (you can prove that you used it first, as far as the State is concerned).

If you don't care about that, you can literally just announce that you are in business.  You don't need anyone's permission.

About the IRS thing, do business owners pay more income tax than standard people, and should I consider going "insurrection" ;)?

Small-business owners do pay more, percentage-wise.  We also have more deductions available.  For example, what percentage of your house do you use for business-related purposes (everything from office space, to the space taken up by your shelves of technical manuals, to the space you use for storing equipment)?  Do you have coffee or snacks available for customers?  Do you have a sign on your car, advertising your business (then every mile you drive is business-related, as advertising)?  If you have a good tax accountant, you can end up paying nothing at all.

NH does have a business income tax on any profits exceeding $50k, but again, with the deductions available you can typically file and still pay nothing.  Paying no income taxes and also not going to jail is a good combination, in my book.

Joe
Title: Re: FSP roommates
Post by: margomaps on June 12, 2008, 10:59:15 am
Theoretically, you are "supposed to" report any income, regardless of the type.  Theoretically...

You got that right.  I was pretty surprised/alarmed to read that the IRS taxes bartering based on the market value of the goods exchanging hands.  So, I give you some BBQ in exchange for some work on my heating system, and we're supposed to claim the dollar value of the labor and BBQ as income on our tax forms, respectively.

This is from http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc420.html (http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc420.html).

I really don't understand this.  If I just pay you in cash for the labor on the heating system, I can at least understand why the IRS would consider that cash to be "income" for you.  But if I pay you with the equivalent amount of pork ribs, you're supposed to declare the value of the pork ribs as income, AND I'm supposed to declare the value of the labor as income to me?  That's exactly how I read it.  Double-dipping, anyone?  To this day I figure I must be missing something when I read that IRS page.  It can't be as insane as it appears...can it?
Title: Re: FSP roommates
Post by: techforumz on June 12, 2008, 12:55:59 pm
Okay, metals taxable, got it. What isn't? Milk, eggs, computer junk, what!?!?

Theoretically, you are "supposed to" report any income, regardless of the type.  Theoretically...

Business license $100? I though it was in the range of a new car.

No business licenses in NH.  You can pay $50 if you want to register a trade name with the State, which can help you avoid getting sued if someone else comes up with the same name, and decides to fight you about using it (you can prove that you used it first, as far as the State is concerned).

If you don't care about that, you can literally just announce that you are in business.  You don't need anyone's permission.

About the IRS thing, do business owners pay more income tax than standard people, and should I consider going "insurrection" ;)?

Small-business owners do pay more, percentage-wise.  We also have more deductions available.  For example, what percentage of your house do you use for business-related purposes (everything from office space, to the space taken up by your shelves of technical manuals, to the space you use for storing equipment)?  Do you have coffee or snacks available for customers?  Do you have a sign on your car, advertising your business (then every mile you drive is business-related, as advertising)?  If you have a good tax accountant, you can end up paying nothing at all.

NH does have a business income tax on any profits exceeding $50k, but again, with the deductions available you can typically file and still pay nothing.  Paying no income taxes and also not going to jail is a good combination, in my book.

Joe
Okay, that's good. So, in essence, I could pay no taxes, minus accountant fees. And I wouldn't have to hire a guard to keep my house safe from the IRS. Though I should really put a motion sensor and always-on camera, that way I'd have proof.

And about the BBQ thing... I think it is that insane, to keep people using the worthless monetary system known as dollars.
Title: Re: FSP roommates
Post by: JAC on June 24, 2008, 02:36:11 am
The real question is: will the American people vote for someone without a college education?  If they will then I don't need to go to college either. :)  I was always more interested in college for the prestige that goes along with it; I never actually expected to learn any more from a professor than I could just learn by myself.  But don't you think that not attending college could come back to bite you in the ass when it comes down to public opinion?  If you're interested in office, that is.
Title: Re: FSP roommates
Post by: John Edward Mercier on June 24, 2008, 08:32:14 am
The real question is: will the American people vote for someone without a college education?  If they will then I don't need to go to college either. :)  I was always more interested in college for the prestige that goes along with it; I never actually expected to learn any more from a professor than I could just learn by myself.  But don't you think that not attending college could come back to bite you in the ass when it comes down to public opinion?  If you're interested in office, that is.
Depends on the office you wish to hold.

Theoretically, you are "supposed to" report any income, regardless of the type.  Theoretically...

You got that right.  I was pretty surprised/alarmed to read that the IRS taxes bartering based on the market value of the goods exchanging hands.  So, I give you some BBQ in exchange for some work on my heating system, and we're supposed to claim the dollar value of the labor and BBQ as income on our tax forms, respectively.

This is from http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc420.html (http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc420.html).

I really don't understand this.  If I just pay you in cash for the labor on the heating system, I can at least understand why the IRS would consider that cash to be "income" for you.  But if I pay you with the equivalent amount of pork ribs, you're supposed to declare the value of the pork ribs as income, AND I'm supposed to declare the value of the labor as income to me?  That's exactly how I read it.  Double-dipping, anyone?  To this day I figure I must be missing something when I read that IRS page.  It can't be as insane as it appears...can it?
If Joe is a heating contractor by trade... he would report it as income. You've paid for the labor, and unless it deductible really wouldn't get reported... same as if you used cash. If Joe isn't a heating contractor by trade, then its just a friend helping a friend and sharing a meal.
But as Joe stated, this is theoretical...
Title: Re: FSP roommates
Post by: VinceSinclaire on June 25, 2008, 01:57:47 pm
*blinks*
still on roomates at all, people?
im looking at Keene with my girlfriend,
and we're looking at prices etc.
we're gonna need some help :D


http://www.apartments.com/cvcommunity.aspx?page=cvcommunity&view=1&property=112377.11&subarea1=y&area3=y&state=nh&rgn1=109&rent_minimum=0&rent_maximum=99999&onebdrm=1&am22=0&am24=0&am49=0&am23=0&am1=0&am15=0&am4=0&srt1=0.40&srt2=0.40&srt3=0.40&prvpg=1067
the first of many places to look at.
pm meh if you need roomates :D
moiving in early/middle 09.
Title: Re: FSP roommates
Post by: joeyforpresident on November 20, 2008, 11:06:02 am
Plymouth anyone?

Plymouth State?


Title: Re: FSP roommates
Post by: dalebert on November 20, 2008, 01:03:59 pm
I was working on a Porc Manor for the Keene area and missed it by that much, as Maxwell Smart would say. I'm still working on making one happen but it may not be quite as soon as I'd hoped.
Title: Re: FSP roommates
Post by: TEBON on November 21, 2008, 06:13:14 am
Plymouth anyone?

Plymouth State?




lookup a kid named Michael. . . skinny with black hair.  Ask him about Ron Paul and he'll get excited