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FSP -- General Discussion => Prospective Participants => Topic started by: MrsWindyCity on September 26, 2007, 11:06:25 pm

Title: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: MrsWindyCity on September 26, 2007, 11:06:25 pm
Hello all,

Over the past few weeks, I have done some research trying to find an appropiate party to vote for. Alas, I discovered that the only political party that truly aligns with my beliefs is the Libertarian party. I was relieved to find that there are same-thinking people out there.

I also discovered this site about the FSP, and I am very interested. To give you all some information, I am 21 and my husband is 25. We have a 15 month old daughter and I am in college working for my bachelor's in finance and my CPA. My husband is more of a manual laborer; he did not complete college and he works as a machine operator in a warehouse. I talked to him about moving to NH; he is pretty passive about such things, and I am not sure he quite understands what I am getting so worked up about. He's very sweet, and quite agreeable, though.

The reason for my post is that we are from IL (near Chicago), so obviously it is pretty diverse. I am black, and my husband is half black and half white. He is concerned that people in a state with 96% or so whites may not be so tolerant of us.  We can pretend that racism and discrimination don't exist, but they sadly still do. On the other hand, we are not the kind of people who cry "racial foul" at the slightest offense or perception thereof.

Basically, I want to know are there cities with more diversity? Does it even matter? Will my husband be able to find work in a warehouse, or in auto mechanics (which he would like to eventually persue)? Please be honest and tell me first hand experiences and your own opinions; I promise not to be offended. I just need info to make an informed decision before I persuade my hubby to make this move with me.

Also, what is the average cost of renting housing vs buying (we'd prefer to live in a larger city)? Thanks for your help in advance.
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: aardvark307 on September 27, 2007, 05:08:21 am
Obviously I can only speak for myself, but yours truly spent 21 years in the Navy. No one group or gender has a monopoly on either virtue or vice. The battle is too much uphill to worry about irrelevant issues like the color of ones skin. The system is an equal opportunity oppressor.

All I am concerned about is that my neighbor is a decent human being who respects me as much as he/she wants me to respect them.
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: MrsWindyCity on September 27, 2007, 09:02:25 am
Well, I am not saying that I won't respect my neighbors, or that they won't respect me. I really just need to know if there are going to be tensions because we may be seen as outsiders. Even with FSP participators; are there any black people? Not that it would make me more comfortable per se, but I wonder if there has been any problems. I want to be able to have more info before I ask my husband to make this move with me, because it is something I really believe in and want to support.

Thanks ;)
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: Ron Helwig on September 27, 2007, 09:12:40 am
I have not seen any evidence of racism here. Not to say that there isn't any, but I haven't seen it. Even when joking around with people, it just never seems to come up.

I don't think you'll have problems. I do know of one black FSP'er (Fred), and he is just one of us. Someone told me that RattyDog was black, but I just think she's hot.  ;D

The job market is pretty good out here for labor. Two of my roommates work in factories and they seem to be starving for good help.
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: LibertyforLife on September 27, 2007, 09:22:10 am
I don't observe arbitrary lines like the color of a person's skin.

Evil isn't confined to one color or another just as good isn't either. Everyone should be accepted or rejected based on their individuality and not because they belong to one group or another based on anything.
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: margomaps on September 27, 2007, 09:33:08 am
I'd be shocked if you experienced anything but a sense of inclusion amongst the vast majority of FSP members.  I suppose there could be a couple bad apples in any group that gets this large, but from what I've seen, as long as you're on board with advancing liberty, you'll fit right in.

As for NH as a whole, I can't say.  As you pointed out, the population is overwhelmingly white.  There are probably many people -- especially in the smaller communities -- who have had almost no exposure to colors and cultures other than their own.  I wouldn't be terribly surprised to find a bit of xenophobia there.

The biggest cities in NH, and the most culturally diverse, are in the southern part of the state.  Manchester in particular seems to come closest to matching the description of what you're looking for.  Plus, it has a good contingent of FSP and native liberty activists already living there.  I'd recommend looking into Manchester, perhaps scoping out the job opportunities for you and your husband, and seeing whether it's the kind of place you might be happy.

Good luck!   :)
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: margomaps on September 27, 2007, 10:03:16 am
Oh, and about your housing question...

Generally speaking, housing isn't cheap in NH.  On the other hand, it's cheaper than a lot of other places.  Chicago is such a huge area that I can't begin to guess how NH might compare to it.  In or around Manchester, I'm sure you can find some bargains.  I've found http://www.nneren.com to be a very useful site to browse properties.

Also bear in mind that NH doesn't have a state income tax.  And it doesn't have a general sales tax (there is a sales tax on restaurants and hotels though).  I've found that my cost of living is significantly cheaper than it was around the Baltimore area.  Probably about 25% cheaper overall.
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: J’raxis 270145 on September 27, 2007, 11:09:38 am
Welcome! ;D

The FSP is incredibly inclusive. Here (http://newhampshireunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=10032.0), for example is how we dealt this year with attempts by racist groups to infiltrate one of New Hampshire’s pro-liberty events. As for racism among the general population, I haven’t seen any. There have definitely been no overt acts of racism that I’ve seen, but if you’re worried about more subtle stuff like your neighbors giving you the cold shoulder or refusing to associate with you; it’s hard to notice stuff like that unless you’re on the receiving end of it, and I’m white, so I couldn’t say one way or the other. People in New Hampshire tend to be a bit less friendly than in other areas, anyway (we call it “flinty (http://newhampshireunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=10666.msg183365#msg183365)” here), so don’t jump to conclusions about any gruff attitudes you may encounter.

Manchester (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester%2C_New_Hampshire#Demographics) is your best bet both for biggest and most diverse city, and I think Manchester is probably the biggest hotbed of freestater activity nowadays, except perhaps Keene. I actually live in an area that is predominantly Hispanic and African (as in recent African immigrants, not African-Americans). Here (http://nh.craigslist.org/search/apa?query=Manchester&minAsk=min&maxAsk=max&bedrooms=) are some apartment listings to give you an idea of the cost of apartments in Manchester.
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: MrsWindyCity on September 27, 2007, 11:39:18 am
Thanks for the responses!

We currently pay 879.00 per month for two bed, two bath 40 miles from Chicago. An apartment, mind you. I have no objections to paying up to 1200/month for renting, as long as there are 2 bedrooms. May be a little more, depending on how the tax decrease will increase our expendable income. Plus, possibly  a pay increase. From what I have been reading, Manchester sounds good to me too.

Forrest:
I completely agree. I am just hoping to find people in the FSP and NH who feel the same way.

Ron:
What type of factories? Like assembly work? Do you know about how much they make?

J'raxis:
Thanks so much. I appreciate your viewpoint. Trust me, I am used to people being "flinty", as you call it (lol), so I promise not to assume they are plotting to hang me  ;)

Thanks for the links, too.


ETA: Oh, yeah baby....we can definitely afford this! Some of these are really nice. We pay 879.00, and I HATE my apartment.
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: J’raxis 270145 on September 27, 2007, 01:16:07 pm
We currently pay 879.00 per month for two bed, two bath 40 miles from Chicago. An apartment, mind you. I have no objections to paying up to 1200/month for renting, as long as there are 2 bedrooms. May be a little more, depending on how the tax decrease will increase our expendable income. Plus, possibly  a pay increase. From what I have been reading, Manchester sounds good to me too.

You will easily find 2BRs in the Manchester area for $700–800.

ETA: Oh, yeah baby....we can definitely afford this! Some of these are really nice. We pay 879.00, and I HATE my apartment.

You should come over to our other forum (http://newhampshireunderground.com/forum/) where most people hang out. It has a moving/housing (http://newhampshireunderground.com/forum/index.php?board=32.0) board, too. And when you’ve decided on a place and a move-in date, add a link to the calendar over there and people will show up and help out with the move. Stories of other people we’ve helped move in:—

http://newhampshireunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=9047.0 (pics (http://newhampshireunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=9047.msg174087#msg174087))
http://newhampshireunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=10170.0
http://newhampshireunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=10962.0
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: JasonPSorens on September 27, 2007, 01:25:57 pm
Hey, one of our Board members is mixed-race! I think on balance, the FSP is more diverse than is NH, but some parts of NH are more diverse than others.
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: sfultong on September 27, 2007, 05:41:14 pm
What is "mixed-race" anyway?  I don't think many people are really pure of race unless they're really inbred.

I think most white people consider others to be "black" if they aren't white (or asian or hispanic).  So really if you're the least bit brown, you're probably considered black.

And on the subject of racism, well... I think even the well-intentioned have bits of racism in them.  The way I'd break it down is people are good if they try not to go by their instincts in judging others by their appearances, and they're bad if they just go by instinct and are close-minded.

There's a rather disturbing article that my friend sent me recently:
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1467-9477.2007.00176.x

But I'm pretty optimistic that, with similar political and social goals, we can all live happily together.
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: Keyser Soce on September 27, 2007, 07:53:03 pm
I haven't made the move yet so I can't speak for the folks already there. I do plan on arriving spring of 08 and personally would love to see you there. My personal opinion on racism is that it's an immature propensity to blame others for one's own problems. I've seen whites blame blacks, blacks blame whites, and just about everyone blame the jews. Here in Arizona the big thing is blame all of the problems on the mexicans. Anyone who subscribes to a philosophy of self ownership and individual responsiblility wouldn't blame another person for their problems much less an entire race.
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: J’raxis 270145 on September 27, 2007, 08:28:41 pm
I haven't made the move yet so I can't speak for the folks already there. I do plan on arriving spring of 08 and personally would love to see you there. My personal opinion on racism is that it's an immature propensity to blame others for one's own problems. I've seen whites blame blacks, blacks blame whites, and just about everyone blame the jews. Here in Arizona the big thing is blame all of the problems on the mexicans. Anyone who subscribes to a philosophy of self ownership and individual responsiblility wouldn't blame another person for their problems much less an entire race.

“Us vs. them” is a natural human trait, but only on the family and clan level. Evolutionarily speaking, it’s actually beneficial, back when human beings were nomadic and different clans were often stepping on each other’s turf in an effort to hunt and forage.

Modern racism is just one of the many ways in which those who wish to control societies have exploited this mistrust of outsiders for their own benefit. That Mexicans are whom people point at in Arizona is no surprise; they’re the most numerous, visible, and convenient “Other” that the white government can point at when it wants to distract people.
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: freedomroad on September 27, 2007, 10:29:38 pm
Hello MrsWindyCity,

Historically, New England is known for being tolerant of race, maybe more than any other area of the nation.  I am not saying it is, I don’t know as I have only spent a total of a few months of my life in New England (though I only overheard 1 race related joke during that whole time). 

As for my family, they are mostly from New England (and upstate NY) and the South.  No one in my family from New England is racist (in fact my cousin in Vermont dated a black boy when she was in high school and the family never said anything to her) and yet a great deal of my family from the South is racist.  This, even though, most of my family in the South lives in areas where whites only make up 60%-40% of the population and my family in New England lives in areas that are 85%-95% white.  So, percentage of the population that is of race X is not the best indicator to the presence of racism, in my experience.

I think you will be more than happy in the Free State of New Hampshire.  Nashua and Manchester seem to be quite diverse, as are parts of extreme northern MA (MA/NH border towns), and Boston.  There is a large variety of ethnic restaurants and grocery stores in the areas, also.

To answer another of your questions, in my time with the FSP I have met 3 African-America FSP members at past FSP Porcupine Freedom Festivals and recruit two African-America Friends of the FSP (two of my good friends).
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: Ron Helwig on September 28, 2007, 08:54:23 am
Ron:
What type of factories? Like assembly work? Do you know about how much they make?

One is working for, IIRC, Rockwell Automation or something like that, doing something with plastic. The building is right across the street from the porc-famous Murphy's Taproom in Manchester. I'm pretty sure he's making at least $9/hour (working through a temp agency), and they have him working overtime this week. He also went into this with practically no experience.

The other is building industrial kitchen equipment in Concord. He's making at least $11/hour and they want him to work overtime but he's so far ahead that they're finishing up December shipments already. He talks about the saws he operates and the steel he cuts, stacks, and hauls. He did this as a career switch.

I'm a geek who's never worked in a factory, so I don't really know much about this stuff.
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: MrsWindyCity on September 28, 2007, 09:43:59 am
Wow!

I just want to say thank you all so much for your input and for making me feel welcome.

I believe (and I am not wishing to offend anyone) that racism is a narrow-minded, sometimes unconcious effort to blame your problems on a scapegoat groupd of people.

For example, I too used to live in AZ. Everything was was ,"I cant get a job b/c of Mexican illegals, they cant drive, etc. etc". But there were always so many jobs available. I had 2. And mexicans, legal or not, are the only people using drugs, crashing cars, etc.

My insight on racism in the South is that when slaves were freed, white landowners' culture began to be shaken at its foundations. I think that the failure of many plantations being blamed on blacks turned into blaming everything on blacks. And it spreads, and it infiltrates other parts of your rational mind, and it feels better to know that your failures/shortcomings/obstacles aren't your fault.

Anyway, I know that almost everyone has prejudices. I probably do, although not necessarily racial. But now I understand how the culture of NH and surrounding areas may not be so condusive to overt racism. I earn my way, you earn yours. No blaming.

I have cemented in my mind that NH is where I want to live. My hubby is less enthusiastic, but I have to keep pointing government intrusions on our liberties  in our everyday lives. I think he is starting to see. I have convinced him to move with me in 5 years, but nothing set in stone. I want to bring him and our daughter up there for a visit next year. How cold does it get? Are summers warm?

Anyway, I just wanted to thank you all, and I hope to see everyone soon.

Peace + Freedom = Life
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: LibertyforLife on September 28, 2007, 10:10:24 am
I'd like to introduce the idea that racism only exists because of itself. Everyone who believes they are black, white, brown, red person continues to feed the idea of racism. I exist as a white man, but it is not who I am, it is only what I am.

I prefer to stop thinking of people as nothing more then one race, the human race. Just as there are many different types of plants, animals, and minerals, there are that many different types of people.

Honestly, and don't take offense, only because none is intended, until you free your mind that you are not black, you will still be racist to some extent. This continues racism. As the saying goes, free your mind, and the rest will follow.

Peace, love, and happiness to you.

Just as a note, because I believe you are still locked into this 'I am black', there aren't a whole lot of blacks in NH, so I've been told, but I don't care. I welcome all who want liberty regardless of race(ethnicity), religion(including Muslim extremists), origin(including those from Mexico and China), or sex(including the transvestites too).
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: J’raxis 270145 on September 28, 2007, 12:23:13 pm
My insight on racism in the South is that when slaves were freed, white landowners' culture began to be shaken at its foundations. I think that the failure of many plantations being blamed on blacks turned into blaming everything on blacks.

My own thoughts on this is that the Civil War and Reconstruction were probably the worst thing to happen to race relations in the history of the United States. Tying abolition to a war that was viewed by the South as an invasion, and the way they handled Reconstruction—filling the South with occupation troops, appointing former slaves into government positions over their former owners, and just all-around trying to grind the whites, the former ruling class, into the dirt—was extremely stupid and short-sighted.

Either they didn’t realize, or didn’t care, that this sort of behavior would cause an incredible amount of anger and resentment, and would eventually result in blowback. The Klan—the driving force behind much of the racism in this country—was founded by a Confederate general during Reconstruction, after he saw what the Union troops were doing to the South. And after the Union troops were redeployed from the South, the white ruling class didn’t waste any time regaining power and taking revenge on the blacks still living in their midst.

All of the other countries in the western hemisphere that had slavery abolished it in some other reasonable manner, often through incrementalism, and sometimes even compensating the plantation owners in the process. And in none of these countries did they have to fight a war over it, nor did they end up with the huge race-relations problems plaguing the United States for the past 150 years.
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: MrsWindyCity on September 28, 2007, 03:16:12 pm
Quote
Just as a note, because I believe you are still locked into this 'I am black'

Of course I am!

 I was raised and socialized to be aware of my skin color. I was taught about the way things are in the world for me because I am black.

But no more!

I do not want any special treatments, but neither do I wish to be discriminated against. I do not want to be a statistic, I do not believe that if someone commits a crime against me that they should be punished more severly than they would be if they had commited the same offense against a white woman. That's wrong. I don't want to have to explain affirmative action to my daughter. I just want my family to be viewed like everyone else's.   I just want my daughter to get into , say, MIT on the basis of her grades and nothing else. I dont want her to be a quota admission. I dont want to be a tax writeoff for my job.

I just want to be a human being. That's it.

I am just looking to see if I will be able to find this sort of atmosphere in NH and with the FSP.

Thanks.
Peace.
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: yoplait on September 28, 2007, 04:02:36 pm
I do not want any special treatments

I think that's pretty clear from your posts. 

In any case...welcome to the FSP!  :)
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: CA_Libertarian on September 28, 2007, 04:18:42 pm
I have cemented in my mind that NH is where I want to live. My hubby is less enthusiastic, but I have to keep pointing government intrusions on our liberties  in our everyday lives. I think he is starting to see. I have convinced him to move with me in 5 years, but nothing set in stone. I want to bring him and our daughter up there for a visit next year. How cold does it get? Are summers warm?

I think bringing the family up for a visit is a great idea.  I've heard many people relate that visiting during PorcFest was a deciding factor for if/when they would move.

As for the weather, I understand it varies greatly throughout the state.  Windy & cold in the mountains, warmer in the southern part of the state, etc.
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: yoplait on September 28, 2007, 04:31:11 pm
I have cemented in my mind that NH is where I want to live. My hubby is less enthusiastic, but I have to keep pointing government intrusions on our liberties  in our everyday lives. I think he is starting to see. I have convinced him to move with me in 5 years, but nothing set in stone. I want to bring him and our daughter up there for a visit next year. How cold does it get? Are summers warm?

I think bringing the family up for a visit is a great idea.  I've heard many people relate that visiting during PorcFest was a deciding factor for if/when they would move.

Yeah...the Liberty Forum might be a good time to visit.  http://freestateproject.org/libertyforum/
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: J’raxis 270145 on September 28, 2007, 08:25:39 pm
Quote
Just as a note, because I believe you are still locked into this 'I am black'

Of course I am!

I was raised and socialized to be aware of my skin color. I was taught about the way things are in the world for me because I am black.

But no more!

I do not want any special treatments, but neither do I wish to be discriminated against. I do not want to be a statistic, I do not believe that if someone commits a crime against me that they should be punished more severly than they would be if they had commited the same offense against a white woman. That's wrong. I don't want to have to explain affirmative action to my daughter. I just want my family to be viewed like everyone else's.   I just want my daughter to get into , say, MIT on the basis of her grades and nothing else. I dont want her to be a quota admission. I dont want to be a tax writeoff for my job.

I just want to be a human being. That's it.

I am just looking to see if I will be able to find this sort of atmosphere in NH and with the FSP.

Thanks.
Peace.

I think you’ll love it here. Welcome home! ;D
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: sfultong on September 28, 2007, 11:46:33 pm
MrsWindyCity:

good posts!  I hope you feel welcome here and in NH.


Forrest:

I think it's pretty hard to be race-blind.  Sometimes our subconscious isn't in line with our ideals, sadly.
I was raised mostly in a town that embraced multiculturalism (to the point that I thought, "what's the big deal?").  But then I lived in Boston for 1.5 years, and suddenly I was in a tension between blacks and whites.  Ever since then I've been much more aware of peoples' races.  Sad but true.
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: mattbarney on September 29, 2007, 08:52:27 am
Welcome, Mrs. Windycity.

There are a number of families who are cross-cultural and "diverse" in the FSP, including my own.  My two sisters and brother were adopted when I was very young, and they're both african american (my dad was adopted, so I have no idea what ethicity I have, but I look western european) and my wife is from India. 

We've travelled several times to NH, and enjoyed our time there.  One of my FSP friends married to a Nepali woman are moving early next year, and are looking toward the seacoast where there's a good FSP-run Montesorri school.

Mark Edgington of "Free Talk Live" often talks about how he goes out of his way to greet african-american people in Keene (he says he hugs them), and he tells them he wishes more blacks would move into Keene.

I know there's a growing bunch of people / families who welcome you with open arms to the FSP

I'm one of them :)

Matt
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: yoplait on September 29, 2007, 10:58:25 am
Mark Edgington of "Free Talk Live" often talks about how he goes out of his way to greet african-american people in Keene (he says he hugs them), and he tells them he wishes more blacks would move into Keene.


That's a little weird.
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: LibertyforLife on September 29, 2007, 10:59:31 am
I know it is hard trying to break out of a mind set. I find myself every once and awhile saying, 'there ought to be a law....' then I kick myself and remind myself thats how we got where we are in the first place.

I still welcome you and yours and the FSP is....different then most. Mark is a neat guy and sexy even for a aging white guy. Every once and a while I think what he looks like with his shirt off.....kidding....long live Free Talk Live!
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: J’raxis 270145 on September 29, 2007, 11:17:40 am
Mark Edgington of "Free Talk Live" often talks about how he goes out of his way to greet african-american people in Keene (he says he hugs them), and he tells them he wishes more blacks would move into Keene.


That's a little weird.

Yeah, there’s a point at which trying not to be racist, or trying to compensate for racism, becomes racism itself. Giving blacks special attention is just as racist—and patronizing—as hating them.
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: LibertyforLife on September 29, 2007, 11:28:27 am
Isn't a black person in an area dominated by white people something to embrace and welcome? I can see what you mean however and it could also be racism in and of itself, in the same way as shouting, 'hey look, it's a black person!'
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: MrsWindyCity on September 29, 2007, 12:29:22 pm
That's what I mean.

I totally understand and respect the fact that his intent is to embrace blacks and other minorities and make them feel welcome. I even appreciate it. The thing is, like Forrest said, it's like "Hey, it a black person! Don't worry, I don't hate you!"

But affirmative action, in a sense, was supposed to accomplish the same thing in the coporate and academic fields. Problem is, it didn't. It caused resentment and anger, hostile work  and learning environments, and minorities having to answer as to whether they were qouta admissions.

Don't embrace me because I happen to be darker than you. Embrace me because you like my clothes (at least I can control that, not that I would change my ethnicity even if I coul), or because we share beliefs.

Or, try this.

Embrace me because of the simple fact that I. Am. A. Human. Being.                       
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: yoplait on September 29, 2007, 02:26:58 pm
Don't embrace me because I happen to be darker than you. Embrace me because you like my clothes (at least I can control that, not that I would change my ethnicity even if I coul), or because we share beliefs.

Or, try this.

Embrace me because of the simple fact that I. Am. A. Human. Being.                       

Exactly.  I think my (least) favorite thing is the "I have friends who are black" thing people just throw out there...it's right next to, "I dated a black person once."

You've gotta earn your hugs around here, Ms.  ;)
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: Dreepa on September 29, 2007, 10:04:49 pm
We embrace people who like freedom and liberty... so you will fit right in!   ;D
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: error on September 30, 2007, 01:43:52 pm
I don't think you'll have any problem with the weather, if you've been through a Chicago winter!
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: Toowm on September 30, 2007, 10:29:50 pm
MrsWindyCity-

I'm from the Chicago area, and grew up in a mostly black suburb (Maywood). There is much, much less racism than when I grew up in the 60s and 70s. I think you will find New England slightly less race-conscious than Chicago, and less "Balkanized" into ethnic areas. But I can guarantee you will not find it in our liberty community. I would expect all of us to react very negatively to anyone that even whiffed of racism. I think it is a great idea to visit, at the Liberty Forum or separately, and would love to meet you and your family.

A member wrote an article I really like: http://www.freestateproject.org/about/essay_archive/three-fifths.php (http://www.freestateproject.org/about/essay_archive/three-fifths.php)

Welcome, and come home!
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: Simon Jester on October 07, 2007, 12:45:19 pm
I know that when I moved up to NH, I had the misconception about "Lily White New Hampshire"--one of my sister's friends who is half-black, half-polish didn't help things when she told us stories about her and "the other black guy" in Newmarket, NH.
But when I moved to Manchester, the first thing I saw were tons of Somalians! So, trust me, Manchester is very ethnically diverse. Along with Somalians, there are also Bosnians, Hispanics, Greeks, Frenchies, etc. There's plenty of diversity. Perhaps not in the smaller towns (though I can't say for sure not having been to a lot of them), but it's not something I'd concern myself too much about.
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: J’raxis 270145 on October 08, 2007, 09:18:05 am
I would expect all of us to react very negatively to anyone that even whiffed of racism. I think it is a great idea to visit, at the Liberty Forum or separately, and would love to meet you and your family.

What just happened to that new user “jewsdid9/11” over on NHFree is a perfect example. I’ve never seen someone get their karma whacked so fast or get put on ignore by so many people.
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: Browning on October 09, 2007, 01:38:13 am
(...)one of my sister's friends who is half-black, half-polish didn't help things when she told us stories about her (...)

May it be that the "Polish" thing is "worse" than "Black" ... ?  ;)
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: tom ploszaj on October 18, 2007, 07:35:50 pm
Welcome MrsWindyCity!
LOL, now I'll chime in as a native born American of Polish decent.  I love Polish jokes and laugh at the funny ones.  In doing so it dampens their powder and defuses any stereo typing.    MrsWindyCity from what I see in FSP members is first we are Americans and somewhere down at the bottom of the list is our ethnicity. 
Now if I can take the liberty .... a political comment ... I always wonder if this so called racial tension isn't a manipulation to keep peoples separated so not to join forces against a common foe?
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: miamiballoonguy on October 19, 2007, 09:02:18 am
What is "mixed-race" anyway?  I don't think many people are really pure of race unless they're really inbred.

I think most white people consider others to be "black" if they aren't white (or asian or hispanic).  So really if you're the least bit brown, you're probably considered black.



I can vouch for that...  Being Puerto Rican, any time that I have left Florida, I've been accused of lying...  Here is the most ridiculous of the racial slurs I've heard (This is from people in Antioch California in 87)... ' You can't be Puerto Rican, because you are not black.'  What the hell does that mean?  Mind you I was 16 at the time, but you are going to get it everywhere...
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: LibertyforLife on October 19, 2007, 10:00:35 am
Welcome MrsWindyCity!
LOL, now I'll chime in as a native born American of Polish decent.  I love Polish jokes and laugh at the funny ones.  In doing so it dampens their powder and defuses any stereo typing.    MrsWindyCity from what I see in FSP members is first we are Americans and somewhere down at the bottom of the list is our ethnicity. 
Now if I can take the liberty .... a political comment ... I always wonder if this so called racial tension isn't a manipulation to keep peoples separated so not to join forces against a common foe?

I object to being insulted by being called an "American"! If you wish to be an "American" that is your choice, however the FSP has others who have chosen not to be "Americans", instead we refer to ourselves as, Sons of Adam, Children of God, Sovereign, Human Beings, and a plethora of other names that fit our understanding of who/what we are.

I say this all with humor in mind, although it is what I perceive as the truth. No one person can claim to represent a group. Of course you are giving an opinion, and you have every right to make an opinion. Just as I have the right to deny your opinion is correct. Like now. So there! :p
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: Ward Griffiths on October 22, 2007, 11:09:40 pm
I don't recall a lot of racism around Laconia when I lived there in the early 70s.  I personally only remember one family with above average melanin, they lived across the street from the gas station where I was a pump jockey.

I vaguely recall that to some of the less intellectual members of my high school, the term "chinaman" was considered a serious insult.  To the best of my knowledge there were no students there at Laconia High School with asiatic ancestry more recent than the the last time the Bering Straits were crossed on foot.

There is a long history of prejudice against French and/or catholics.  Seems some folks crossed the border, spoke their own language and stole jobs from right-thinking people by being willing to work for less than the prevailing wages.  History repeats itself.

I gotta be honest.  I'm past fifty and I have still never met a black person.  Or for that matter a white person.  I've seen some quite dark shades of brown and some very pale shades of pink, but most folks seem to be less extremely tinted.  I and my sisters (who happen to live in Manchester, but that's not my fault) are on the pale side.  But I got a brother-in-law from Harlem and as a result the amount of melanin in New Hampshire is now higher than it was when I was a teen.  I consider this a positive.  Hybrid vigor.

I can't do the ethnic grouping thing.  Only individuals exist.  Some individuals are assholes and they are across the spectrum.  Folks who insist on ethnic identity over individuality are usually assholes.  Lester Maddox was an asshole.  So are Al Sharpton and Bush 2nd.

I gotta get back up to New Hampshire.  There are assholes there, but not a measurable fraction of the number here in New Jersey.
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: KBCraig on October 23, 2007, 04:50:53 am
I can't do the ethnic grouping thing.  Only individuals exist.  Some individuals are assholes and they are across the spectrum.  Folks who insist on ethnic identity over individuality are usually assholes.

Ward speaks sooth.  8)


Quote
I gotta get back up to New Hampshire.  There are assholes there, but not a measurable fraction of the number here in New Jersey.

Just come "Home", Ward. You'll even get to pump your own gas.  ;D
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: John Edward Mercier on October 23, 2007, 08:24:34 am
Which station the old Foley's?

Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: lloydbob1 on October 23, 2007, 08:44:21 am
I don't recall a lot of racism around Laconia when I lived there in the early 70s.  I personally only remember one family with above average melanin, they lived across the street from the gas station where I was a pump jockey.

I vaguely recall that to some of the less intellectual members of my high school, the term "chinaman" was considered a serious insult.  To the best of my knowledge there were no students there at Laconia High School with asiatic ancestry more recent than the the last time the Bering Straits were crossed on foot.

There is a long history of prejudice against French and/or catholics.  Seems some folks crossed the border, spoke their own language and stole jobs from right-thinking people by being willing to work for less than the prevailing wages.  History repeats itself.

I gotta be honest.  I'm past fifty and I have still never met a black person.  Or for that matter a white person.  I've seen some quite dark shades of brown and some very pale shades of pink, but most folks seem to be less extremely tinted.  I and my sisters (who happen to live in Manchester, but that's not my fault) are on the pale side.  But I got a brother-in-law from Harlem and as a result the amount of melanin in New Hampshire is now higher than it was when I was a teen.  I consider this a positive.  Hybrid vigor.

I can't do the ethnic grouping thing.  Only individuals exist.  Some individuals are assholes and they are across the spectrum.  Folks who insist on ethnic identity over individuality are usually assholes.  Lester Maddox was an asshole.  So are Al Sharpton and Bush 2nd.

I gotta get back up to New Hampshire.  There are assholes there, but not a measurable fraction of the number here in New Jersey.


What he said
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: Ward Griffiths on October 23, 2007, 08:37:40 pm
Which station the old Foley's?

Back in the day it was Laconia Tulsa Service, there at the bend in Union Ave where Messer Street connects.  Nowadays I think it's it's a self-serve Mainway station.  When I was a pump jockey, back at the start of the first OPEC crisis in '73 (that summer after graduation was "interesting times"), self service was being laughed at in the industry magazines.  Nowadays it's everywhere except New Jersey and Oregon.  Here in Jersey, I can be arrested for handling a gas pump even though I've probably pumped more gas than than anybody doing that this side of the Linden refineries -- I worked the only station between Concord and the Canadian border open past 5PM and the lines were quite long for at least two hours after official closing time (scheduled hours were 7am-11pm, unless the tanks went dry I was usually there until at least 2am and still opened in the morning -- Bert the boss was doing drywall jobs since there was really no profit selling gas and the part-time mechanic didn't pump gas and was generally too drunk to count money anywho).  (I forget the date I got a pay raise, but it happened because the minimum wage went up from $1.60 to I think $1.75/hr -- pump jockey was one of those jobs immune to overtime, so it was straight pay for up to 90 hours per week -- so as a result I wound up in the USAF before I would have finished my freshman year at GAtech.)
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: Ward Griffiths on October 23, 2007, 08:43:50 pm

Just come "Home", Ward. You'll even get to pump your own gas.  ;D


Pumping gas doesn't have the thrill it once did.  I just want to cook and watch happy, free (and preferably armed since that helps the first two adjectives plus gets a 10% discount) people eat chili and sides.
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: John Edward Mercier on October 23, 2007, 09:21:26 pm
Sorry, but that's a salon now.
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: Ward Griffiths on October 23, 2007, 09:57:49 pm
Sorry, but that's a salon now.

What, the lot inside the obtuse angle is now a salon?  That'd take a lot of remodeling in less than two years.  (I did drive past the place after Porcfest before last).

Since I'm scheduled (unwillingly, since I'm the only competent cook in the family and I won't be cooking) to visit kin in Manchester over Turkey weekend, I'll run up and look.  Nothing surprises me since finding a quite nice Thai restaurant next door to Laconia High School.  When I was at LHS, pizza and sub sandwiches were the the extreme for ethnic food.  Taco Bell hadn't expanded as far east as the Rockies yet (not sure when it crossed the CA border to NV and AZ).  (And now for a long time I have a niece who assistant manages a Taco Bell in Manchester NH).

Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: lloydbob1 on October 24, 2007, 06:31:13 am
Ward, let us know when you're coming and some of us can try to get together at Murphy's.  It's been too long
Lloyd
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: John Edward Mercier on October 24, 2007, 12:06:18 pm
Sorry, but that's a salon now.

What, the lot inside the obtuse angle is now a salon?  That'd take a lot of remodeling in less than two years.  (I did drive past the place after Porcfest before last).

Since I'm scheduled (unwillingly, since I'm the only competent cook in the family and I won't be cooking) to visit kin in Manchester over Turkey weekend, I'll run up and look.  Nothing surprises me since finding a quite nice Thai restaurant next door to Laconia High School.  When I was at LHS, pizza and sub sandwiches were the the extreme for ethnic food.  Taco Bell hadn't expanded as far east as the Rockies yet (not sure when it crossed the CA border to NV and AZ).  (And now for a long time I have a niece who assistant manages a Taco Bell in Manchester NH).


No, your right... I was thinking of the yellow building that occupies the lot within the triangle formed between Messer and Union (Used to be Razor's Edge Barbershop and Kodiak Film Processing). I nearly forgot of the little station Irving bought out. For some reason I thought you were going back a lot farther in time. It used to be a rarity that a building was completely raised.
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: Ward Griffiths on October 24, 2007, 04:27:49 pm
Ward, let us know when you're coming and some of us can try to get together at Murphy's.  It's been too long
Lloyd

My doctor says I'm not supposed to go to places like Murphy's any more.  Google "Esophageal varices".  Life as a lush is catching up with me.   :'(
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: lloydbob1 on October 24, 2007, 06:51:22 pm
They have coffee. Hell if it comes down to that, they have water, but, we all know what fish do in water.
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: RandomAlias on October 26, 2007, 04:42:16 am
To the OP, MrsWindyCity: I grew up in Maine, right next door. I believe we are the state with the highest percentage of Anglo-Americans. If not, we're close. High 90th percentile or so. I only knew three African-American kids all through school, two boys and a girl. Yet I never saw any racism. Maybe it's because we were kids and while kids can be cruel, they can also be more accepting than adults. Or maybe I was too oblivious to pick up on it. But all three dated white kids and nobody thought anything of it (I had a crush on the girl in elementary school but she didn't like me back, *sniff*). It wasn't until I moved to the mid-west, to your area in fact, that I witnessed clear overt racism.

I think what you'll find, and this is just one person's opinion and a white one at that, but I think at worst you may find some hesitancy from people who've just never met any black folks before. It's been my observation that people in this area tend to feel sort of defensive of minorities. Almost like we don't want to be anything like those antiquated stereotypical southerners.

Anyway I wish you the best!
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: frankwtodd on October 26, 2007, 08:39:47 pm
I hate to be obnoxious or to be less feeling about this matter, but here are my thoughts:

I don't care if you're purple and have tentacles coming out of your forehead. If you believe in freedom and YOUR rights and the rights of OTHERS to do as you will so long as it harms no others, then welcome. Welcome to NH and you'd probably welcome in my house as long as you brought good conversation and maybe a six-pac of decent beer. You could probably skip the beer if it didn't suit your beliefs. I'll get my own anyway!! :)

There is no greater way to unite than respect, tolerance, and freedom.
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: Russell Kanning on October 27, 2007, 10:06:26 am
You are right, windy city ... there are hardly any blacks in NH, but I don't think that means you will not be welcome here.

I have been places in the South where I heard disparaging remarks or jokes about blacks that I was supposed to agree with or enjoy, but I have not heard those here.

I would guess that you will do fine here. But we cannot give you the same experiences that you are used to in Chicago ... we just don't have that much crime and it is clean here. :)
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: MrsWindyCity on November 03, 2007, 10:26:19 pm
Hey, I am glad to see that this conversation has kept lively since I last checked. I have been so busy, it's ridiculous!

Anyway, I am glad to hear that I can come and be judged generally as an individual, not as a "black person". Trust me, I am on my way. I am actually working on a speech for school to persuade people to join the FSP.

On another front, good news: my hubby doesn't need too much more convincing: he just saw a newscast about more and more areas making it illegal to sag your pants!!!!
He was so pissed off! He looked at me and I just said, " I told you. I told you and you thought I was crazy. It's coming; it's only getting worse."

Just wait until I get my accounting degree. I am there, baby!

Peace (and concealed weapons for all),

Erika
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: KBCraig on November 05, 2007, 04:10:07 am
MrsWC, you might find it interesting that there is a significant number of actual "African"-Americans in southern NH. Meaning, they were born in Africa, but sought refuge in America. Most are from Somalia, but there are other refugees from other dictatorial regimes.

Kevin
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: Kate on November 05, 2007, 07:49:18 pm
I have been pleasantly surprised at the diversity of Concord and Manchester.  I don't know about Nashua but I think you will find New Hampshire a refreshing change from the windy city. 

The only crap I've heard from natives from NH is against the Africans that immigrated here.  Local people hate the fact they are getting welfare and section 8 housing.
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: Steve on November 06, 2007, 10:02:49 am
Hey, one of our Board members is mixed-race! I think on balance, the FSP is more diverse than is NH, but some parts of NH are more diverse than others.
Yeah, but I'm "passing", and I'm used to living among foreigners who think any American is a space alien. ;) Of course, being passing I hear what whites really think, and I haven't heard any anti-black talk (Mexican immigrants are another story, but the whole US has gone insane on that topic). A good friend of mine who is black lives in New Hampshire. He loves it.

All of New England has a smaller population than Southern California. Boston is just an hour from NH, and I will be relying on its proximity for diversity.
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: Russell Kanning on November 09, 2007, 12:34:36 pm
Yeah, but I'm "passing", and I'm used to living among foreigners who think any American is a space alien. ;) Of course, being passing I hear what whites really think, and I haven't heard any anti-black talk (Mexican immigrants are another story, but the whole US has gone insane on that topic). A good friend of mine who is black lives in New Hampshire. He loves it.
passing?
some people are nuts about mexicans taking over here .... not quite as bad as California ... but still silly
I did see one hispanic yesterday in Keene ... soon they will be up to 1% ;D
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: KBCraig on November 09, 2007, 10:54:04 pm
Hey, one of our Board members is mixed-race!
Yeah, but I'm "passing",

Heh. I remember a discussion several years back, where someone asked, "Isn't Steve black?"

The general response went: A) "I dunno. Never asked him."; B) "I guess he could be."; C) "But who cares?"

Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: KBCraig on November 09, 2007, 10:55:10 pm
I did see one hispanic yesterday in Keene ... soon they will be up to 1% ;D

We need to work on that, so real Coca-Cola (made with cane sugar) will be available in NH. Or is Canadian Coke made with sugar?
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: lloydbob1 on November 10, 2007, 07:04:31 am
I Think the Kosher folks use the real sugar Coke during some holidays.  There is a Kosher market in CT, where   I have looked for the sugar Coke for Error since he first asked about it, but, I haven't found it yet.
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: error on November 11, 2007, 05:53:07 pm
I Think the Kosher folks use the real sugar Coke during some holidays.  There is a Kosher market in CT, where   I have looked for the sugar Coke for Error since he first asked about it, but, I haven't found it yet.

Look during the spring for the yellow caps on the 2-liter bottles.
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: GregH on November 12, 2007, 09:08:28 pm
I Think the Kosher folks use the real sugar Coke during some holidays.  There is a Kosher market in CT, where   I have looked for the sugar Coke for Error since he first asked about it, but, I haven't found it yet.
I know of a grocery chain which is oriented towards organic and other high-quality foods.  Appropriately-enough called "Whole Foods", their store-brand cola is made with cane sugar.  It's not exactly like Coke, but still pretty good.
I looked, there are no stores in NH, but there are many in MA and one in Portland, ME.
http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/stores/index.html
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: Ward Griffiths on November 12, 2007, 09:45:45 pm
I Think the Kosher folks use the real sugar Coke during some holidays.  There is a Kosher market in CT, where   I have looked for the sugar Coke for Error since he first asked about it, but, I haven't found it yet.
I know of a grocery chain which is oriented towards organic and other high-quality foods.  Appropriately-enough called "Whole Foods", their store-brand cola is made with cane sugar.  It's not exactly like Coke, but still pretty good.
I looked, there are no stores in NH, but there are many in MA and one in Portland, ME.
http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/stores/index.html

Whole Foods' cola has cane sugar instead of corn syrup, but it lacks caffeine.  That is a key factor in my only trying it once.  But it is one of the few places I can find my preferred varieties of tea, Celestial Seasonings Morning Thunder and Twinings Lapsang Souchong.  They are planning to open a store in Nashua.  http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/stores/newstores.html#nh
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: Porcupine Realtor on November 12, 2007, 10:18:29 pm
Come on up here, Erika, and drag your husband with you.  You'll love it.

BTW, I love how a discussion on race relations morphed into one about organic food stores!  That just shows how little we care about race around here.  We care about freedom . . . and healthful food.

There is a very nice store in Manchester called A-Market.  I think the A stands for Alternative, although I'm not sure.  It's like a mini-Whole Foods Market.  It's just as expensive (probably a bit more so), but it has all the organic foods and hard-to-find brands that you'll find in WF and Wild Oats.  It's great.  They have things like Kombucha, live cultures, organic foods, hemp-based products, sprouted grains, gluten-free breads and spelt, free-range chicken eggs, Veganese, etc.  It's located on South Willow Street.  And they have plenty of kosher and GMO-free and cane sugar-laced products.
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: GregH on November 13, 2007, 05:19:07 pm
Come on up here, Erika, and drag your husband with you.  You'll love it.

BTW, I love how a discussion on race relations morphed into one about organic food stores!  That just shows how little we care about race around here.  We care about freedom . . . and healthful food.

There is a very nice store in Manchester called A-Market.  I think the A stands for Alternative, although I'm not sure.  It's like a mini-Whole Foods Market.  It's just as expensive (probably a bit more so), but it has all the organic foods and hard-to-find brands that you'll find in WF and Wild Oats.  It's great.  They have things like Kombucha, live cultures, organic foods, hemp-based products, sprouted grains, gluten-free breads and spelt, free-range chicken eggs, Veganese, etc.  It's located on South Willow Street.  And they have plenty of kosher and GMO-free and cane sugar-laced products.

Wow, being more expensive than Whole Foods is no small achievement (in my social circle it's known as "Whole Check") but I'm glad to hear there's something like that in Manchester.  And glad that there will be at least one WF in NH.

And as far as race goes, I can only speak for myself but I am interested in a person's beliefs, attitudes and behaviors, not how much melanin they have.
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: maxxoccupancy on November 14, 2007, 08:06:45 pm
I have been a resident of Manchester, and there is a lot more racial diversity here than other parts of the state.  In fact, the Merrimack Valley area (Manchester, Nashua, Goffstown, etc) is both the job capitol of NH and very cool with people in general.  There are tons of art stores, colleges, music stores, and bars around Manchester, and the city is very cosmopolitan.  If you find work is Mass, living in Manchvegas adds about 15 minutes to your commute versus Nashua.

Still, there are far more freestaters living in Manchester (probably half live within a 15 minute drive of the city) than any other part of the Live Free or Die state.  New England is not quite as tolerant as the west coast.  There are a few segregationists in this city, but they are not a hateful crowd.  That's not the New Hampshire Way.

--Max
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: mrsdevlugt on November 18, 2007, 08:16:37 pm
I sure hope so!
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: ny2nh on December 30, 2007, 12:18:20 am
Since I am white, I may not notice any prejudices as easy as a black person might.....but I would have to say that generally there isn't a racism problem here. I could care less if you are black or white, as long as you're a good neighbor - it really doesn't matter to me in the least. I actually think I saw more race problems when I lived in NY state where there was a much more diverse population than here in NH where statistically we are pretty much "white".

Good luck finishing your degree!!
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: MTPorcupine3 on January 19, 2008, 09:32:51 pm
What, you haven't moved yet? I just checked in after a few months away from the forum....and you're still having this discussion! What are you waiting for? If you're libertarian, you're welcome. Period.
Title: Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
Post by: NHArticleTen on January 20, 2008, 06:40:32 am
If you are a student/practitioner/advocate of the Non-Aggression Principle and the Golden Rule...

None of the "rest" of "it" matters to me...