Free State Project Forum

FSP -- General Discussion => Prospective Participants => Topic started by: MarkLiberty on February 13, 2003, 07:32:37 pm

Title: Getting rid of Federal Income Taxes
Post by: MarkLiberty on February 13, 2003, 07:32:37 pm
Is there anyway that the free state will be able to reduce federal income taxes, or even FICA taxes?
Title: Re:Getting rid of Federal Income Taxes
Post by: Anti-Federalist on February 13, 2003, 08:59:39 pm

Please see the "Income tax necessary?" posts on the "General Libertarian Discussion" thread. and join in there!

Title: Re:Getting rid of Federal Income Taxes
Post by: JasonPSorens on February 13, 2003, 10:49:41 pm
This is partly a political strategy question as well.  I recommend taking a look at the Free State Political Strategy board and the threads discussing means of obtaining autonomy & restoring federalism.  There are several methods we can use to win for our state's citizens (and preferably the citizens of all states) the right to opt out of federal FICA & income taxes, but it will be a long, tough battle.
Title: Re:Getting rid of Federal Income Taxes
Post by: SandyPrice on February 20, 2003, 11:11:29 am
We cannot opt out of the Federal Income tax until the congress does it through proper channels.  If anyone tries to do it by following the plans of Schultz, you will be investigated by the IRS and you will pay a terrible penalty for breaking the law.  

We have tried several times to get the attention of the house of representatives to cut back the size of government and giving us all a chance at planning for a new tax system.  The voters want it just the way it is because it guarantees them a source of money to have their hands in!  Until we get the house and senate to agree to even discuss this tax code that has become so detrimental to us all, we will have to pay it.

America has become a country of looters and has been given this as a gift from our Presidents who are all the puppets of the IMF (International Bankers)  There is nothing any of us can do except move to another country and even then our income will be taxed in anyway the IMF decides.

This is all exposed on Lew Rockwell's site and can be found at the Von Mises Institute and the Cato Institute.

You break the law by searching for a clerical error in your state's part in the Federal Government and I guarantee you will lose everything you own.  Many of Schultz's followers are in federal prison and the only reason he isn't is that he has continued to pay his taxes even while telling his followers not to.  He is a fraud and I beg you to use your common sense.
Title: Re:Getting rid of Federal Income Taxes
Post by: JasonPSorens on February 20, 2003, 02:11:44 pm
Relax, I'm not talking about not paying federal tax.  I'm talking about getting Congress to pass a law exempting our state from FICA and federal income tax, in exchange for which we do not get the services those taxes fund.
Title: Re:Getting rid of Federal Income Taxes
Post by: Kelton on February 20, 2003, 04:03:56 pm
I've thought- through a few of the ideas as to how a state could successfully challenge Federal tax, and this discussion would probably be better placed on the political strategy thread, but here are a few ideas:

First off, the free state could pass legislation requiring employer's withholding of Federal tax and FICA tax be sent to the state capital instead of to the IRS.  The State could then send that money to the federal government and do all the reporting on it, vouching for each taxpayer, thus bypassing the federal agents from collecting those taxes from employers. (This was the way it was when income tax was first started). . .  

the state could offer a second "helpful" move, the state could just save a wasteful step and keep that portion of the funds that Congress was going to give back anyways. . .

as the state becomes less and less dependant upon federal funds, the state takes a smaller and smaller portion of that money out of those funds. . .

 the legislature could ask, "Now why are we collecting all of this money from our citizens? And make a big political issue out of it, requesting that state citizens only pay that  portion of the federal budget through their taxes that represented essential federal services like defense.  Eventually, if the feds did concede anything, and if a federal court didn't stop the whole process from the beginning, Congress MIGHT be inclined to issue a "special " rebate check back to the state, --though probably would never allow state residents that sort of autonomy from the IRS, (or else all the upper income earners would live in the free state).  Then the state could use those funds to fund the state government, further reducing state collection of taxes, because the feds would probably attach strings to that "special rebate check" and not let the state issue rebates back to tax payers, or again, there would be all upper-income earners moving to the free state too quickly and the fed couldn't stand for that.
and then,

The free state could offer some helpful "assistance" to the good people of the United States and offer to take over responsibility of care and maintenance of tracts of federal lands with state funds.  The state could then start an 'environmental steward program'  where volunteers could take a portion of those federal lands now under state control and offer transferrable 99-year- environmental stewardship land-grant leases "to care and protect" plots of land personally assigned to families, where they could, for a small fee, as set by market demand, accept land tracts with protective covenants as to how they could use that land, along with certain well-defined responsibilities.

well, back to taxes. . .
If the state was already collecting federal taxes from their residents, and in the situation where the temptation was great to withold "membership dues", this alone could be a great point of leverage in negotiation, especially if our state was growing in prosperity.  After all, the U.S. Congress regularly witheld membership dues from the United Nations in the 90's as a means of leverage forcing the UN to clean- up some huge levels of internal corruption and waste that was going on there (and still is, of course, though slightly less).  

This is just one scenario, and of course it has many flaws, but just to give an idea of what may be possible.

I wanted to add a little statement in here, and that is, the only candidate states we have that have already done-away with income tax are: Alaska, New Hampshire, So. Dakota, Wyoming.
I see these states as the only ones that present any real credibility in posturing towards eliminating federal income tax, but of course I should take this discussion to the "Which State?" discussion.