Free State Project Forum

FSP -- General Discussion => Prospective Participants => Topic started by: Mike Lorrey on June 30, 2006, 02:18:18 pm

Title: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: Mike Lorrey on June 30, 2006, 02:18:18 pm
As y'all likely know, we have a number of foreign FSP members, and prospective members, who are worried about their ability to immigrate to the US. At the same time, we have a large number of single Free Staters who are US citizens. I would like to propose a Marry4Freedom program be launched, to match single FSP member non-citizens with single FSP member citizens.

As most of us do not regard the governments right to regulate marriage as having any kind of legitimacy, this can be another tool to use their own system against them while boosting our numbers.
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: poorVAkid on July 01, 2006, 06:08:45 pm
i think this is a really neat idea.
too bad people take marrige so seriously..

o well..
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: freedom's ideologue on July 01, 2006, 08:15:20 pm
I second the motion!  Brazilian please.  Or Colombian.  ;D
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: Rocketman on July 01, 2006, 10:50:37 pm
I want a Mediterannean hottie, preferably one who can cook and also inspire me to achieve greatness.   :-*
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: FreeBoB on July 01, 2006, 11:35:33 pm
In your dreams guys - they'd be coming for the green card, not you  ;D
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: Otosan on July 02, 2006, 10:48:59 am
I have done my part.... ;D  (I think  ???)
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: Rocketman on July 02, 2006, 10:55:11 am
I have done my part.... ;D (I think ???)

Hai, soo desu.   ;)
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: Keti on July 03, 2006, 02:03:59 pm
i think this is a really neat idea.
too bad people take marrige so seriously..

o well..

I don't. I'd be willing to use the marriage system to help foreign freestaters.

Anyone willing to tolerate me most definately deserves to live in America.
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: cvramen on July 13, 2006, 03:07:33 pm
Yes, let's make permanent life decisions in order to get one person to move to the US. ::)
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: freedomroad on July 13, 2006, 03:18:00 pm
Yes, let's make permanent life decisions in order to get one person to move to the US. ::)

Marriage is not a big deal to some people.
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: FreeBoB on July 13, 2006, 04:03:07 pm
As Mike said in his first post #! above: "As most of us do not regard the governments right to regulate marriage as having any kind of legitimacy, this can be another tool to use their own system against them while boosting our numbers."

This has nothing to do with a lifelong committment or a 'real' marriage. It's an interesting proposition that has only one goal. To use the gooferment licensing system to get foreign Porcs legally into NH. I assume there would be an undoing of the marriage (divorce) at the legally appropriate time.

+1
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: cvramen on July 13, 2006, 08:50:44 pm
As Mike said in his first post #! above: "As most of us do not regard the governments right to regulate marriage as having any kind of legitimacy, this can be another tool to use their own system against them while boosting our numbers."

This has nothing to do with a lifelong committment or a 'real' marriage. It's an interesting proposition that has only one goal. To use the gooferment licensing system to get foreign Porcs legally into NH. I assume there would be an undoing of the marriage (divorce) at the legally appropriate time.
Terminating a marriage is wrong, and we should not be encouraging it.
Are you saying that these government-sanctioned marriages aren't really marriages at all? Are you saying they are false marriages? If that is the case, then if it's a false marriage, then I have no problem with people marrying on impulse then terminating it the next day.
But, I am curious as to why you question the legitimacy of government-sanctioned marriages. Last time I checked, lots of people treat marriages carried out by judges as the real thing.

EDIT: Perhaps I should mention that I am a "Browne" libertarian, believing that government should be reduced to just protecting people from violence, so there's no doubt in my mind as to whether government and marriage should be completely separate.
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: Keti on July 13, 2006, 09:19:11 pm
Far as I can see marriage is a piece of paper you and someone else buy from the government.

Legally binding commitment I can live without. I can stay committed to one person for my entire life without a legally binding commitment.

Rejecting the existence of god I could not care less about offending the name of god, rejecting traditionalism I could not care less about peverting a millennia-old tradition, and being a libertarian, I see no reason why not to use a stupid government-perverted millenia-old tradition which is nothing like that which was dictated by god, as an excuse to help people in other countries escape socialism.

It's easy for me, it helps them immensely, it helps the FSP, everybody wins!

I have yet to see a good reason not to do it.
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: freedom's ideologue on July 13, 2006, 09:26:31 pm
I don't see why divorcing them has to be a mandatory part of the deal ...
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: Rocketman on July 13, 2006, 09:32:16 pm
As Mike said in his first post #! above: "As most of us do not regard the governments right to regulate marriage as having any kind of legitimacy, this can be another tool to use their own system against them while boosting our numbers."

This has nothing to do with a lifelong committment or a 'real' marriage. It's an interesting proposition that has only one goal. To use the gooferment licensing system to get foreign Porcs legally into NH. I assume there would be an undoing of the marriage (divorce) at the legally appropriate time.
Terminating a marriage is wrong, and we should not be encouraging it.
Are you saying that these government-sanctioned marriages aren't really marriages at all? Are you saying they are false marriages? If that is the case, then if it's a false marriage, then I have no problem with people marrying on impulse then terminating it the next day.
But, I am curious as to why you question the legitimacy of government-sanctioned marriages. Last time I checked, lots of people treat marriages carried out by judges as the real thing.

EDIT: Perhaps I should mention that I am a "Browne" libertarian, believing that government should be reduced to just protecting people from violence, so there's no doubt in my mind as to whether government and marriage should be completely separate.

Marriage is a contract (formal or informal) between two consenting adults.  Most couples choose to acquire the government's sanction, but that isn't what legitimizes the marriage.  Some religious types would argue that marriage is only legitimate if there's an appropriate ceremony, but still, marriage is a contract between two consenting adults who want to be joined together in a domestic partnership.

In the case of a free stater marrying a foreign free stater, the only contract between the "partners" would be to agree that the marriage was a pretend marriage designed to fool the government into granting a person citizenship.

Don't get me wrong; I think this is a profoundly stupid idea.
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: Keti on July 13, 2006, 11:10:39 pm
Don't get me wrong; I think this is a profoundly stupid idea.
If it works, I don't care.
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: Doug Linder on July 14, 2006, 02:27:38 pm
Terminating a marriage is wrong

Really?  Why?

Are you saying that these government-sanctioned marriages aren't really marriages at all? Are you saying they are false marriages?

Whether they are "true" or "false", the government has aboslutely nothing to do with it.  It is only a matter between teh people involved.


But, I am curious as to why you question the legitimacy of government-sanctioned marriages.

And I'm curious why you put any importance on it.  What does the government have to do with my personal relationship with another person?


Last time I checked, lots of people treat marriages carried out by judges as the real thing.

And lots of people don't.  Shrug.
Quote
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: Doug Linder on July 14, 2006, 02:51:10 pm
Don't get me wrong; I think this is a profoundly stupid idea.

I don't think it's stupid at all.  Everyone's business is their own, including why they get married.  It's not for me or you to say if their reasons are stupid.  Or, at least, if we say so they are completely correect to say "it's none of your damn business."

However, while I don't find it a stupid idea, I doubt it would work very well.  Even with marriages of convenience it's advisable that the people at least get along relatively well, and that by itself can be tough.

I do think it would be nice to have a Libertarian Dataing Service in general, where singles of all kinds - libertarians, FSP members, foreigners, whoever - could meet up.  I'm single, and I'd like to get married at some point, foreign or not.  Since the fact that I actually care about politics is often what scares women away, it seems logical that maybe looking for a mate within the group is a good idea.
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: Follow on July 15, 2006, 04:16:28 pm
Terminating a marriage is wrong, and we should not be encouraging it.
Are you saying that these government-sanctioned marriages aren't really marriages at all? Are you saying they are false marriages? If that is the case, then if it's a false marriage, then I have no problem with people marrying on impulse then terminating it the next day.
But, I am curious as to why you question the legitimacy of government-sanctioned marriages. Last time I checked, lots of people treat marriages carried out by judges as the real thing.

EDIT: Perhaps I should mention that I am a "Browne" libertarian, believing that government should be reduced to just protecting people from violence, so there's no doubt in my mind as to whether government and marriage should be completely separate.

Very interesting reaction.  It seems to me that you're the one placing relevance on the importance of a slip of paper signed by a nameless, faceless bureaucrat in a cold office somewhere.  Is that what marriage is about to you?  It's odd to think that an institution that you're defending so nobly is as meaningless to you as that.

This is a form of using worthless laws to create an advantageous situation for all of us.  Marriage or any other form of union between two people will exist whether your bureaucrat says it will or not.  You can have this legal contract on record with the overinflated government who seems to believe they're controlling every aspect of your life (including telling you who you are and aren't allowed to love based on their worthless contracts), while being actually married to another person because of your bond, love, religion, or whatever auspices you have chosen to be married under.

Why do you (and others) feel so strongly against this seemingly perfect demonstration of bureaucratic bumbling?




Follow  :)
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: cvramen on July 15, 2006, 05:11:18 pm
Why do you (and others) feel so strongly against this seemingly perfect demonstration of bureaucratic bumbling?

Oh, I agree that marriage should be for two people to decide, not the government.

I was unaware that (and it seems that Brian Sullivan has pointed out to me) most of libertarians do not view a government-sanctioned marriage as a "real" marriage. If they see it as nothing more than a piece of paper signed by a judge, sure, I have no problem with this plan.

Marriage is a serious contract between two people; A government-sanctioned marriage is just another silly government program. I've always believed that- I just didn't know that most libertarians feel that way too.
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: FreeBoB on July 15, 2006, 05:18:55 pm
It's as real as owing back taxes!  It's a license.

In this proposed circumstance, I would imagine we'd find a receptive crowd.
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: Keti on July 15, 2006, 07:44:12 pm
I was unaware that (and it seems that Brian Sullivan has pointed out to me) most of libertarians do not view a government-sanctioned marriage as a "real" marriage.
It's real. It's a real piece of paper and it really lets someone move to the US. That's as real as it needs to be.
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: Rocketman on July 15, 2006, 09:23:58 pm
Don't get me wrong; I think this is a profoundly stupid idea.

I don't think it's stupid at all. Everyone's business is their own, including why they get married. It's not for me or you to say if their reasons are stupid. Or, at least, if we say so they are completely correect to say "it's none of your damn business."

However, while I don't find it a stupid idea, I doubt it would work very well. Even with marriages of convenience it's advisable that the people at least get along relatively well, and that by itself can be tough.

I do think it would be nice to have a Libertarian Dataing Service in general, where singles of all kinds - libertarians, FSP members, foreigners, whoever - could meet up. I'm single, and I'd like to get married at some point, foreign or not. Since the fact that I actually care about politics is often what sacres women away, it seems logical that maybe looking for a mate within the group is a good idea.

The main reason I think it's a stupid idea is that I doubt it would work very well.  That alone is a pretty strong basis for calling an idea stupid.  Brainstorming leads to a lot of dumb ideas; the trick is sorting good from bad, and acting on the good ones.  The libertarian dating service is a much better idea, although I'm afraid the male to female ratio might be an obstacle.
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: FreeBoB on July 15, 2006, 09:55:27 pm
All you need one one.  ;D
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: Keti on July 16, 2006, 10:31:49 am
The main reason I think it's a stupid idea is that I doubt it would work very well.  That alone is a pretty strong basis for calling an idea stupid.  Brainstorming leads to a lot of dumb ideas; the trick is sorting good from bad, and acting on the good ones.  The libertarian dating service is a much better idea, although I'm afraid the male to female ratio might be an obstacle.
If it gets one person in a foreign country to the Free State, it worked.
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: Ward Griffiths on July 16, 2006, 11:19:34 am
Why do you (and others) feel so strongly against this seemingly perfect demonstration of bureaucratic bumbling?

Oh, I agree that marriage should be for two people to decide, not the government.

I was unaware that (and it seems that Brian Sullivan has pointed out to me) most of libertarians do not view a government-sanctioned marriage as a "real" marriage. If they see it as nothing more than a piece of paper signed by a judge, sure, I have no problem with this plan.

Marriage is a serious contract between two people; A government-sanctioned marriage is just another silly government program. I've always believed that- I just didn't know that most libertarians feel that way too.

Two (or more's the merrier) plus if they feel the need, the G-D of their choice.  Government is generally only involved for tax purposes, and few bureaucrats can count past two.

And if divorce was such a sin, it wouldn't be so easy under Mosaic Law.  (Funny how the Xians pick and choose which of "G-D's Laws" they want to use.

Not that I give a rat's ass about the opinions of statists, worshippers or any G-D.  I'm happily married and there's a chance we may be expanding this relationship and asking no permission from G-D, government or neighbors.  Polyandry suits me just fine.
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: CNHT on August 18, 2006, 07:22:14 am
Marriage is a contract (formal or informal) between two consenting adults.  Most couples choose to acquire the government's sanction, but that isn't what legitimizes the marriage.  Some religious types would argue that marriage is only legitimate if there's an appropriate ceremony, but still, marriage is a contract between two consenting adults who want to be joined together in a domestic partnership.

In the case of a free stater marrying a foreign free stater, the only contract between the "partners" would be to agree that the marriage was a pretend marriage designed to fool the government into granting a person citizenship.

Don't get me wrong; I think this is a profoundly stupid idea.

Yes especially since under certain laws if you are legally married you must SHARE your assets with the other person whether you stay together or not and especially if you divorce they can really take you for all you're worth. Not a good idea for some.

And I'm also just old fashioned enough that I think that no matter who presides over your contract, marriages should not be made if they are not intended to be kept...

I for one do not ever intend to marry anyone, ever again, so I can't help on this idea anyway.

But, I'm Mediterranean, live 4 miles from Rocketman, and he has had my lasagna the first day he was here! LOL So at least he's had that much! LOL
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: CNHT on August 18, 2006, 07:24:14 am
Terminating a marriage is wrong

Really?  Why?

I guess it doesn't matter how the contract was made or under whose authority, just that marriage is supposed to be forever and it's not nice to deceive your partner if they think it is and you know at the outset it isn't?
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: Simon Jester on August 19, 2006, 10:55:51 am
Quote
I have done my part.... Grin  (I think  Huh)
Yea me too :P

However, even though I did marry a free stater who just HAPPENS to be a foreigner, I think that purposely marrying them just to get foreign free staters in the US is a really dumb idea.

First of all, you have to apply for marriage visas and the like to get the spouse here. Doesn't sound like a big deal, but you do have to sign a paper admitting that the marriage is in good faith and is not a sham just to get the person a green card. If it is a sham, you could be in some deep shit. Save your philosophical thoughts as to whether the government has a right to control marriages in the first place because this is the reality of the issue.

Secondly, you also have to submit an affadavit of support vowing that you will support your spouse financially until he/she gets citizenship or dies or leaves the country. If you sponsor a fake spouse and the marriage is a sham, there's a strong possibility they might have just used the FSP cover themselves to get in here and then get to milk you for all your money. Any debts, medical bills, etc. they incur are YOUR responsibility to pay for. It doesn't sound like such a sweet deal when you consider that.

Lastly, If the government were to look online (I would htink they would have something better to do, but heck, they're government employees) and discover a thread titled "Marry a foreigner for freedom" it might just cause them to look much further into anyone who just happens to be a free state member who just happens to be married to a foreigner and is applying for a spouse visa. This in turn could make it a lot harder for those of us who HAVE married in good faith and would just like to live together some point during their marriage instead of spending $1000-$2000 in order to see one another 3 times a year.

(Sure, I could always move to Finland: marrying someone there gets you an automatic right to stay there, but I would be utterly unemployable there and our plan is to move AWAY from high taxes, not into them).

If you want, you could make a special effort to meet with FSP members abroad, and see if something happens, but I wouldn't recommend faking the whole thing. That's just plan dumb.
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: Mike Lorrey on September 17, 2006, 01:50:43 pm
Quote
I have done my part.... Grin  (I think  Huh)
Yea me too :P

However, even though I did marry a free stater who just HAPPENS to be a foreigner, I think that purposely marrying them just to get foreign free staters in the US is a really dumb idea.

First of all, you have to apply for marriage visas and the like to get the spouse here. Doesn't sound like a big deal, but you do have to sign a paper admitting that the marriage is in good faith and is not a sham just to get the person a green card. If it is a sham, you could be in some deep shit. Save your philosophical thoughts as to whether the government has a right to control marriages in the first place because this is the reality of the issue.

Secondly, you also have to submit an affadavit of support vowing that you will support your spouse financially until he/she gets citizenship or dies or leaves the country. If you sponsor a fake spouse and the marriage is a sham, there's a strong possibility they might have just used the FSP cover themselves to get in here and then get to milk you for all your money. Any debts, medical bills, etc. they incur are YOUR responsibility to pay for. It doesn't sound like such a sweet deal when you consider that.

Lastly, If the government were to look online (I would htink they would have something better to do, but heck, they're government employees) and discover a thread titled "Marry a foreigner for freedom" it might just cause them to look much further into anyone who just happens to be a free state member who just happens to be married to a foreigner and is applying for a spouse visa. This in turn could make it a lot harder for those of us who HAVE married in good faith and would just like to live together some point during their marriage instead of spending $1000-$2000 in order to see one another 3 times a year.

(Sure, I could always move to Finland: marrying someone there gets you an automatic right to stay there, but I would be utterly unemployable there and our plan is to move AWAY from high taxes, not into them).

If you want, you could make a special effort to meet with FSP members abroad, and see if something happens, but I wouldn't recommend faking the whole thing. That's just plan dumb.

While my original idea was half farcical, I do agree that any marriage should involve a relationship that is real enough to get along with the other person in the same household for an indefinite period, but that given the number of foreign members we have, the only ways to get them in the country, other than as illegal aliens hoping for amnesty at some time in the future, is via marriage visas or by the H1-B hiring visa program. For this reason, we should treat our foreign members as "trapped behind enemy lines" and make special efforts to help them jump the Iron Curtain...
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: Simon Jester on September 17, 2006, 11:18:52 pm
Well there is also the Diversity Visa program. As long as the person isn't from India, they might have some luck with it.
Personally, I think a much better method than marrying people you wouldn't ordinarily marry in the first place would simply be to work to change the stupid immigration laws. Sure, it might be a lot harder, but it'll help so many more people in the long run. There's no reason why it should be so hard for people to immigrate to the US as it is today. Forget the "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses." Nowadays they don't want you unless you've got plenty of money and a degree. If it had always been like that, I would be a European today.
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: Mike Lorrey on September 18, 2006, 03:50:07 pm
Well there is also the Diversity Visa program. As long as the person isn't from India, they might have some luck with it.
Personally, I think a much better method than marrying people you wouldn't ordinarily marry in the first place would simply be to work to change the stupid immigration laws. Sure, it might be a lot harder, but it'll help so many more people in the long run. There's no reason why it should be so hard for people to immigrate to the US as it is today. Forget the "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses." Nowadays they don't want you unless you've got plenty of money and a degree. If it had always been like that, I would be a European today.

If we don't have some standards, the US would look like India today.
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: greap on September 18, 2006, 04:51:37 pm
Well there is also the Diversity Visa program. As long as the person isn't from India, they might have some luck with it.
Personally, I think a much better method than marrying people you wouldn't ordinarily marry in the first place would simply be to work to change the stupid immigration laws. Sure, it might be a lot harder, but it'll help so many more people in the long run. There's no reason why it should be so hard for people to immigrate to the US as it is today. Forget the "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses." Nowadays they don't want you unless you've got plenty of money and a degree. If it had always been like that, I would be a European today.

The list of excluded countries standard at 17 for next year (it is also worth noting that it is based on your country of Birth not Citizenship) and at the moment contains: the United Kingdom (except Northern Ireland) and its dependent territories, Canada, China (mainland born), Colombia, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Haiti, India, Jamaica, Mexico, Pakistan, Philippines, Poland, Russia, South Korea, and Vietnam.

I am on my way through the K1 right now but have throughly investigated all the options over the last few years and have a sizable collection of resources devoted to this subject so if anyone else not in the US needs some help with the visa related stuff I am more then happy to lend a hand.
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: maxxoccupancy on October 23, 2006, 08:47:54 pm
I was considering marrying a foreign woman until I met my gf (who is now a freestater, too).  How difficult would it be to bring such a person into the country, with or without citizenship?  Would it be easier just to get them a degree or something?  It seems a big waste of time to have to go through all of this to get these extra activists here.

I don't want to bring up the free nation project, again, but it's a lot easier to get into Belize...

--Max
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: Neal Conner on November 11, 2006, 11:09:24 am
I'd be glad to help, provided the prospective female porcupine pays any legal costs associated with it and agrees for it to be a secular wedding. I currently live in Florida, so she'd have to come down here first before fleeing to the Free State. And I've got a boyfriend, so sorry ladies, we wouldn't be consummating our wedding night.  ;)
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: Ear on November 11, 2006, 01:33:03 pm
Lastly, If the government were to look online (I would htink they would have something better to do, but heck, they're government employees) and discover a thread titled "Marry a foreigner for freedom" it might just cause them to look much further into anyone who just happens to be a free state member who just happens to be married to a foreigner and is applying for a spouse visa. This in turn could make it a lot harder for those of us who HAVE married in good faith and would just like to live together some point during their marriage instead of spending $1000-$2000 in order to see one another 3 times a year.

(Sure, I could always move to Finland: marrying someone there gets you an automatic right to stay there, but I would be utterly unemployable there and our plan is to move AWAY from high taxes, not into them).

If you want, you could make a special effort to meet with FSP members abroad, and see if something happens, but I wouldn't recommend faking the whole thing. That's just plan dumb.

Hear, hear.

I was going to post an objection very similar to this, until I saw Rochelle's post.  Do as you wish, but please don't try to start some FSP dating service with the explicit aim of defrauding the gubmint to get around their immigration laws.  My wife is Chinese, and it's going to be damned difficult enough to get citizenship for her as it is, without some bureaucrat having an AHA! moment after reading our forums.

Just for the record, I LOVE my wife, in all capitals.  She's my best friend and neither of us can stand to be away from the other for more than a day or two.
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: Simon Jester on November 11, 2006, 07:34:38 pm
Quote
Do as you wish, but please don't try to start some FSP dating service with the explicit aim of defrauding the gubmint to get around their immigration laws.  My wife is Chinese, and it's going to be damned difficult enough to get citizenship for her as it is, without some bureaucrat having an AHA! moment after reading our forums.
Ooh, I'm so sorry for you :( Be sure to contact your senator and file at the consulate (if they let you), both of those should make it easier. In many respects, I'm lucky that my husband's finnish because the Helsinki consulate has a good reputation for being polite and FAST.
But you're in China with your wife, presumably, so you two don't have to be apart. But I hope the visa goes well with you guys and you make it to the free state soon!

Quote
I'd be glad to help, provided the prospective female porcupine pays any legal costs associated with it and agrees for it to be a secular wedding. I currently live in Florida, so she'd have to come down here first before fleeing to the Free State. And I've got a boyfriend, so sorry ladies, we wouldn't be consummating our wedding night.
Lucky for you male FSPers out number female ones by a wide number :) so you won't have to make any sacrifices, in all likelihood.
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: Ward Griffiths on November 12, 2006, 04:23:22 pm
Lucky for you male FSPers out number female ones by a wide number :) so you won't have to make any sacrifices, in all likelihood.
It isn't a sacrifice for some of us.  Look up "polyandry" in Wikipedia or a reliable source of information.  (My first marriage was a polyandry, lasted longer than my parents' "death do us part" xtian monogamy).
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: Simon Jester on November 12, 2006, 08:50:42 pm
Quote
Look up "polyandry" in Wikipedia or a reliable source of information.  (My first marriage was a polyandry, lasted longer than my parents' "death do us part" xtian monogamy).
I meant that tongue-in-cheek. But assuming Naconner swings just one way, marrying a woman would, in fact, be a sacrifice. Though I guess for many men it is anyway ;)
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: Ward Griffiths on November 12, 2006, 09:16:29 pm
[marrying a woman would, in fact, be a sacrifice. Though I guess for many men it is anyway ;)

Third time's a charm ...

Actually, it is.  My first wife and her husband (an ex-roommate of my late friend since the 70s Samuel Edward Konkin III, google "agorism") introduced me to my current wife.  (Ni knew something about my taste in women, she was with me when I met my second wife at an SF convention at the Disneyland Hotel, Valentine Day 1981, several months before my cohusband went sociopathic and things fell apart).
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: CNHT on December 17, 2006, 11:50:58 pm
I agree with Doug.

As long as both people understand why they are doing this. I mean if they are marrying because they have wanted to anyway, fine. If they are marrying to get citizenship and then divorce, as long as they both understand what they are doing and agree to it, so be it!

I worry more about their understanding of what to do to help us improve NH once they get here, whether they stay married or not.
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: davek on December 18, 2006, 12:53:21 am
     There's also the possibility that some may join the pool of foreign FSP pledgers because they could quickly become US citizens by marrying one of you.  With no real attachment to the movement, no intent of moving to NH and fighting for liberty, they would be no real asset to the cause.
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: randy762ak on December 20, 2006, 07:04:57 pm
First post!
 Lucky Me =I married the most beautiful chinese woman--[Imported her from Nanning china] It was a Job -We met on the web and chated for 2 mts then I went to visit her in china for 1 mth--Ill never think about china like I used to =NICE PLACE!
TOOK INS a whole year to get her a visa to come here! But worth it !
http://www.msnusers.com/Randysinternetphotos/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=54
   Im definatly leaving NY stinking state Ill check this place out  for shure ==Randy
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: mattbarney on December 20, 2006, 07:11:32 pm

http://www.msnusers.com/Randysinternetphotos/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=54


She's pretty!  I agree with your comments about China.  Personal freedoms are a dictatorial nightmare, for sure (I've visited Beijing, Shanghai & Chong Ching on business multiple times).  But I'm convinced that even communist China is more free-market with respect to economic freedoms than the US of A.  Hong Kong, by far, of course is extremely free, but mainland is much more a vibrant land of opportunity than, say the People's Republic of California where I live.

I hope she became a citizen and also loves her freedom!  Did she too sign up as an FSP member?

Matt
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: randy762ak on December 20, 2006, 07:21:01 pm
No she has not signed up===I just found this site as Im in full blooming hatred towards NY state -I heard about this place so I googgelled it  and Here I am -
YEaa China Shure  Is a frendly BUSINESS enviroment ---Few beleave me - Gotta run -====ILL BE BACK!!!!
  love to chat more 
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: lordmetroid on December 21, 2006, 03:33:21 am
It's business friendly as long as you who run the business have the government's approval for running your business...  >:D
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: k0balt on January 01, 2007, 12:47:16 am
UH, this could work out for me
nihao...I am currently studying mandarin, and working as a noc nurse, i have zero real life friends, and many from beijing that i speak with at noc hours.
I'm in seattle, but would be interested in moving to Nh to see this through..
the marrage thing would have to be serious - when you marry a farang, the govt likes to know what kind of soap we use, etc etc etc. and if we breakup too soon, i'll loose My citizenship (which i like for the time being)
of course, i guess i would stay a reborn virgin until my second marrage.
any foreigners with a house near the city in nh? gemini23@gmail.com
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: Henry on January 01, 2007, 07:31:08 pm
Being married to a non-US citizen, I can say for a fact that marrying a citizen doesn't necessarily mean there is an avenue to citizenship for the immigrant. Naturalization laws are intentionally jacked.
Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: KBCraig on January 02, 2007, 03:21:40 pm
Being married to a non-US citizen, I can say for a fact that marrying a citizen doesn't necessarily mean there is an avenue to citizenship for the immigrant. Naturalization laws are intentionally jacked.

Or even immigration. One of our ladies here is married to a non-citizen, and she can't even get him in the country!

Title: Re: Marry A Foreigner For Freedom!
Post by: TEBON on January 05, 2007, 10:39:14 am
As y'all likely know, we have a number of foreign FSP members, and prospective members, who are worried about their ability to immigrate to the US. At the same time, we have a large number of single Free Staters who are US citizens. I would like to propose a Marry4Freedom program be launched, to match single FSP member non-citizens with single FSP member citizens.

As most of us do not regard the governments right to regulate marriage as having any kind of legitimacy, this can be another tool to use their own system against them while boosting our numbers.

at least it'll keep them legal.