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Author Topic: More and other criteria to weigh states with  (Read 133307 times)

Zxcv

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Re:More and other criteria to weigh states with
« Reply #75 on: February 02, 2003, 12:31:19 pm »

exitus, even though I am an agnostic, I think one of the worst things government schools do is undermine the worldview parents try to transmit to their children, by teaching evolution OR creation science. Biology is one subject that should be avoided in these schools; the world wouldn't come to an end if kids had to pick up their biology elsewhere.

Ideally, with no government schools at all, this problem would cease to exist.

I don't think this school data you found is very useful to us. How could we use it?

BTW, I figured out what happened on the correlation of the economic freedom index. The EFNA index uses a "larger is better" rating system, the other ones a "smaller is better", so when I did the correlation on the raw data page it was negatively correlated. When I correctly did it on the normalized data page, the correlations of EFNA with the other two indices were more reasonable, .55 and .56.  :P  So anyway, this index is now available on the big sheet. Delaware proponents will like it, ha ha.
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DanTheTileMan

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Re:More and other criteria to weigh states with
« Reply #76 on: February 02, 2003, 01:56:59 pm »

Dan,
Exitus and several others here have a lot on out research plates. Could you find out about the licenses and SSN's.?  Also, while you're at it...

Hi Joe,
Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner.  I forgot to check the "notify of replies" box.  Yes, I will check with my friends at Save-A-Patriot in Wesmsinster, MD and get back to you and Exitus regarding SSN's for Driver's Licences.  I remember seeing somewhere on here that someone listed all the links for State Constitutions.  The reason I want to see those, is to review what the State Income Tax and Sales Tax statutes are.  Food for thought: Maryland did not have either and it was brought up for vote many years ago.  The people shot it down and it was never brought up again, yet the state did it anyway!  I was not around, so I could not tell you how they deceived everyone into it.  I would imagine they waited until most who had voted were dead.  Now we are left with the brain-dead who think their income tax pays for the roads, police and fire depts.  And let's not forget our standing armies.  Do you see the general theme (or scheme) here? - It's all about them feeling secure.  We'll just give the government  our money to protect us, and if that's not enough take our rights, too.  What ever happened to being secure in our persons, property and papers?  Government only exixts to protect the life and property of the citizenry.  The rest is only the administrative duties to meet that end.

As far as your wild a$$ guestimates for existing support within each state, I don't know where to begin.  You did give me a thought, though.  If the one party system works so well now (Republicrats/Demoplicans), maybe we should try the same thing.  We can have porcupines and wild a$$es.  Actually  there is an unknown factor of how many who hide under the one party system, that would actually vote with us once they see things going our way.  And let's ont forget the ones who don't vote, because no one is good enough in their eyes.  My recommendation is pray that we pick the best state and that we can do God's will when we get there, to once again bring our nation under His protection and guidance.

Dan the Man
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Kelton

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Re:More and other criteria to weigh states with
« Reply #77 on: February 03, 2003, 01:47:31 am »

I found another economic freedom index, Economic Freedom of North America (EFNA), by the Frazier Institute:

http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/shared/readmore.asp?sNav=pb&id=453

It showed DE as ranking #1 in the states, and AK as #50!
. . .

Wow! thanks, Zxcv for finding that one.  I am starting to feel a little bit of information over-load right now.  I was right in the middle of examining another spreadsheet that hasn't been discussed around here using over 100 variables done at Clemson University-- it ranked Idaho #1 in the nation a little over 2 years ago.  Now I'll get busy examining this one. . .


From Chapter 2: Overview of the Results of this report, Economic Freedom of North America:
The Worst Performers
For Montana and North Dakota,
the rejection of economic freedom is a relatively new
taste. Both have gone from the middle of the pack
to battling West Virginia for bottom spot. Over the
same period, Montana and North Dakota have seen
their per-capita GDP decline by 23 and 31 percentage
points, respectively, against the national average.
Other consistent under performers include Maine,
New Mexico, Arkansas, Alaska, and Rhode Island.


(emphasis is mine)
No news to me, I've long held a low opinion of these states for freedom, but seeing Alaska #50 seems a little too cruel, didn't they look at the sheer economic oppression going on in New York and Hawaii?  Like I said, I must examine this report some more. . .
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Zxcv

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Re:More and other criteria to weigh states with
« Reply #78 on: February 03, 2003, 12:16:08 pm »

Quote
I was right in the middle of examining another spreadsheet that hasn't been discussed around here using over 100 variables done at Clemson University...
That's the EFI index, the one we already have in our spreadsheet, right?

I'll send out my newest spreadsheet to the usual crowd, which now is updated with some of the things Jason did to his, and also shows trends in the EFNA index.

If we have any other trendlines for the other variables, let me know, and I might put them in too since I now know how to do that.
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Kelton

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Re:More and other criteria to weigh states with
« Reply #79 on: February 03, 2003, 03:42:06 pm »

That's the EFI index, the one we already have in our spreadsheet, right?
The Education Freedom Index?
No. I'm looking at the 1999 Freedom in America’s 50 States done by the economists at the Center for Policy and Legal Studies, Clemson University.  (They found Idaho #1 in the nation and Wyoming #4 in the nation, followed by New Hampshire closely behind).  It has been mentioned a few times on this discussion, but its wealth of over 100 different factors including licensing and such has never been explored because the online links are no more.  I obtained a copy of the spreadsheet and I am trying to remove the other 40 states just to make the data more wieldy for FSP use.  I will be making it available very soon. . . The Freedom report I mention names Delaware as #1 in the nation for privately schooled children, in part because of the excellent Catholic school system there, as well as the fear and dread of D.C. public schools.  Hawaii also ranks quite high for private schools. . .
« Last Edit: February 04, 2003, 12:36:20 am by exitus »
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. . .the foundations of our national policy should be laid in private morality. If individuals be not influenced by moral principles, it is in vain to look for public virtue --The U.S. Senate's reply to George Washington's first inaugural address

Kelton

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Re:More and other criteria to weigh states with
« Reply #80 on: February 03, 2003, 03:46:02 pm »

While the societal costs and benefits of bankruptcy and the extent of bankruptcy laws in general is a contentious subject, almost everyone agrees that excessive or frivolous use of bankruptcy is detrimental to an economy and would reveal irresponsibility on the part of individuals.  On the subject of bankruptcy, following are some statistics and some thought to consider.

I took the data found here:
http://www.uscourts.gov/Press_Releases/bk302.pdf
NONBUSINESS BANKRUPTCY CASES COMMENCED, DURING THE TWELVE-MONTH PERIOD ENDING MARCH 31, 2002. . . Then the total filings divided by 2000 population numbers of each state to compare bankruptcy rate per capita:
626 per 100,000 people =ID
478 per "                     "= WY
424 per "                     "= MT
348 per "                     "= ME
360 per "                     "= DE
342 per "                     "= SD
314 per "                     "= ND
292 per "                     "= NH
271 per "                     "= VT
215 per "                     "= AK

As a measure of personal financial responsibility, these statistics are not very meaningful, as one should compare these statistics to state GDP growth and per-capita income levels as well because sometimes the most honorable people are forced into bankruptcy for reasons beyond their control.  Idaho, for instance, experienced a large down-turn in the high tech sector recently due to over-capacity in semiconductor production, which was a major employer leading to a chain of bankruptcies.  It would be more ideal to grasp the levels of debt burden by measuring debt per income+asset levels to reveal how people allow themselves to amass excessive debt, as this is generally the trend.  Gathering this data would be much more complex, perhaps someone will bring anything already done on this to the attention of this forum.
It would also be important to examine and compare any trends over a few years since this is a one-year snapshot.

More important than any other consideration in influencing bankruptcy filings, however, is state law.  Yes state law!  Even though the "Federal Government is granted authority over bankruptcy law through the U.S. Constitution (Article 1, section 8  ), the Federal Government has historically left bankruptcy law for state governments to enact."  In the scholarly literature, one paper by Lawrence Shepard in 1984 modeled bankruptcy filings as a function of economic and legal factors.  "What he found was that states with lower exemptions had nearly the same bankruptcy rate as states with the higher federal exemptions."  In 1994, in a report by researchers Peterson and Aoki, it was concluded that "wage garnishment puts more pressure on the debtor to file for bankruptcy." This academic literature is cited in a 50 page thesis by John V. Mulligan called The Impact of State Exemptions on Personal Bankruptcy Filings
I lifted the above quotes from this source as well. This corresponds quite a bit with my research that I did on garnishment laws, on the freedom indices thread where I put the following state ranking:

1. WY, ID, MT (no additional state law to federal provision)
2.  SD (limited 60 day period, then reverts to federal provision)
3.  ND (almost like federal provision)
4. AK (states exact dollar amount for clarity)
5. ME
6.  NH –excess paperwork barrier to issue ongoing garnishment
7.  DE -difficult to collect on worker making less than ~$30,000/yr.
8.  VT - the law is so liberal and vague, open to broad interpretation of what is a 'proper wage'  ~‘living wage?’.

Notice how the three highest bankruptcy states above correspond with the states that have 'no additional state law to federal provision'.  Other than this, I won't promote my assessment of garnishment laws to correlation on rate of bankruptcy except to say that I remain disgusted with Vermont's access to the courts by creditors, and it shows that people have little motivation in Vermont to file for bankruptcy since the average creditor has to jump high hurdles to ever get to them.  
 
With only these two provisions in mind, citizens of Alaska do seem to be a bit more responsible with credit, but then the large seasonal and migrant/ temporary population in Alaska may confound that.
Delaware ranks higher than these factors alone would say, maybe there are specific laws in Delaware for unsecured credit co-written by all the banks there, or maybe the higher income levels, or the many people employed in the banking industry there who understand how credit works.

After doing all this work, I find too many confounding variables to rank any state by bankruptcy filings or find a way to compartmentalize this data into a spreadsheet, except to say that given what I know, Delaware looks kind of good for people knowing how to stay within their means and that more people declare bankruptcy in the Intermountain West possibly because collection laws do not protect the debtor any more than federal levels.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2003, 01:23:23 am by exitus »
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. . .the foundations of our national policy should be laid in private morality. If individuals be not influenced by moral principles, it is in vain to look for public virtue --The U.S. Senate's reply to George Washington's first inaugural address

Zxcv

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Re:More and other criteria to weigh states with
« Reply #81 on: February 03, 2003, 11:08:02 pm »

Sorry to inform you, exitus, but the EFI index on our data page is an economic index, the very one you are looking at! Where did you get the idea it was an education index?

Is it possible to quantify this bankruptcy information? I'm confused... it looks like too much bankruptcy is bad, but too little is also (because that means debtors have nothing to fear from creditors). Anyway I don't see how this can be fit in to the spreadsheet. Perhaps we can look at it as just another big strike against VT. Looks like we'd be spending a lot of time digging ourselves out of the hole, there. Personally I don't want to spend 20 years fighting to get back to where most of our other candidate states are already. Strengthening creditors particularly would be a difficult thing to do once people are used to being "protected" from them by government.
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Kelton

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Re:More and other criteria to weigh states with
« Reply #82 on: February 04, 2003, 01:37:01 am »

Sorry to inform you, exitus, but the EFI index on our data page is an economic index, the very one you are looking at! Where did you get the idea it was an education index?
I assumed that the EFI everyone was talking about was this:
The Education Freedom Index
Don't tell me I have been the only one looking at this report and thinking that the other one was one that everybody already knew about!  --I haven't seen any discussion yet about all the wealth of data found in the 1999 Clemson University Freedom in America’s 50 States , what you call EFI, maybe it is too much out of date.  Am I confused or is everyone else?

Quote
Is it possible to quantify this bankruptcy information?
What began as an attempt to look at bankruptcy filings as a way to determine some sort of 'credit-responsibility index' turned into an academic exercise after I found too many confounding factors to make such an index work.  I did some additional editing to the work above and now consider it merely interesting FYI only.  I concur with Zxcv, and see that Vermont has a lot of laws that codify 'rights' that come at someone else's expense.
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. . .the foundations of our national policy should be laid in private morality. If individuals be not influenced by moral principles, it is in vain to look for public virtue --The U.S. Senate's reply to George Washington's first inaugural address

JasonPSorens

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Re:More and other criteria to weigh states with
« Reply #83 on: February 04, 2003, 09:42:24 am »


Don't tell me I have been the only one looking at this report and thinking that the other one was one that everybody already knew about!  --I haven't seen any discussion yet about all the wealth of data found in the 1999 Clemson University Freedom in America?s 50 States , what you call EFI, maybe it is too much out of date.  Am I confused or is everyone else?

Yep, the Clemson University professors' report is where we got EFI.  One of the reasons I'm not terribly thrilled about this measure is that it is a bit outdated.
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"Educate your children, educate yourselves, in the love for the freedom of others, for only in this way will your own freedom not be a gratuitous gift from fate. You will be aware of its worth and will have the courage to defend it." --Joaquim Nabuco (1883), Abolitionism

Kelton

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Re:More and other criteria to weigh states with
« Reply #84 on: February 05, 2003, 01:02:26 am »

Exitus, You may also want to consider which states do not require a social (in)security number to apply for a license.  Some enlightened patriots do not use one; have never obtained one; or do not get slave surveillance numbers for their children.  
State by State Analysis of Current Driver's License Laws and Requirements


At your service! . . .   :)
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Robert H.

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Re:More and other criteria to weigh states with
« Reply #85 on: February 05, 2003, 02:10:15 am »

For a state that's ready to feed you to Kodiak bears if you don't meet its auto insurance requirements, I thought Alaska's driver licensing requirements seemed amazingly lenient.  I checked the Alaska statutes though, and all you have to provide them with is proof of your date of birth and some form of personal identification (even a credit card is sufficient).

http://touchngo.com/lglcntr/akstats/AAC/Title13/Chapter008/Section330.htm

It's amazing how governments can be so lenient in some areas and yet so draconian in others.  Given Alaska's overall liberty-friendly status, this makes me wonder if its insurance standards might not have resulted from one or more high profile uninsured motorist incidents that led to some sort of public outcry.

Kelton

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Re:More and other criteria to weigh states with
« Reply #86 on: February 05, 2003, 11:16:25 am »


http://touchngo.com/lglcntr/akstats/AAC/Title13/Chapter008/Section330.htm

It's amazing how governments can be so lenient in some areas and yet so draconian in others.


So much of it has to do with the culture of the people:
I read in Reader's Digest where in rural Alaska people still exchange personal checks back and forth; 3rd-party, 4th party, and so on, as a means of exchange almost on par with U.S. greenbacks.   How could a culture that practices this suddenly find it acceptable to present two forms of ID when showing-up in person for a driver's license?
From living in Utah, I observed how statists had a hey-day making up all sorts of liquor laws, so strict that you'd have to go to the Middle East to find anything more strict, and since more than 60% of all Utah voters don't consume alcohol, and since 80% of those who do are indifferent anyways,  most of such laws get passed without any real opposition.  Yet OTOH, when the legislature and governor were set on making a law ensuring that concealed- carry be protected from disarmament or harassment on the state's public universities, the general public hardly even blinked, in fact, most of the opposition was found in a few vocal professors who threatened to leave Utah, this despite admitting that they knew that many students were already carrying weapons on campus.
 
If there was a state today that had the most freedom-friendly of every existing law among the states, all of us would already be there, and our only remaining complaint would be against los federales.

“Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it.” --Justice Learned Hand, of the 2nd US Court of Appeals, 1944.
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. . .the foundations of our national policy should be laid in private morality. If individuals be not influenced by moral principles, it is in vain to look for public virtue --The U.S. Senate's reply to George Washington's first inaugural address

Zxcv

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Re:More and other criteria to weigh states with
« Reply #87 on: February 06, 2003, 10:35:20 pm »

Quote
One of the reasons I'm not terribly thrilled about this measure is that it is a bit outdated.

A few years don't matter much. All this stuff is a snapshot.

BTW, guys, I just realized we have another good indicator not yet in the spreadsheet. I haven't time this second to look through our stuff, but I know there was some discussion of "right-to-work" laws. Can't we fit this into our table?

Or is this part of one of the economic indices? And how about minimum wage and living wage laws, are they in there too?

If no one figures this out I will dig it out when I have time to look at it (I'm in the middle of a move just now!)
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Zxcv

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Re:More and other criteria to weigh states with
« Reply #88 on: February 07, 2003, 12:25:00 am »

Looks like EFNA has minimum wage laws, SBSI has right-to-work laws, and EFI has right-to-work, minimum wage and prevailing wage laws. So the indices have us covered.

I'm beginning to think these 3 indices ought to be weighed pretty heavily in our spreadsheets!

BTW, these were the sources for all the things measured in the EFI:

1. O'Leary Morgan, K., Morgan S., Uhlig M.A., eds. (1998), State Rankings 1998 (Lawrence, KS: Morgan Quinto Press).
2. Keating, R.J. (1998), "Third Annual Small Business Survival Index: Ranking the Environment for Entrepreneurship Across the
Nation," (WA D.C.: Small Business Survival Foundation).
3. CQ's State Fact Finder 1996 (WA D.C.: Congressional Quarterly Incorporated).
4. The Book of the States 31 (1996) (Lexington, KY: Council of State Governments).
5. The Statistical Abstract of the United States.
6. The Free Market New 2:1 (2/19/98).
7. Center for Education Reform, http://edreform.com/laws.
8. Teke, Best, Mintrom (1995), Deregulating Freight Transportation (WA D.C.: American Enterprise Institute).
9. State Workers’ Compensation Laws, United States Department of Labor.
10. National Association of Insurance Commissioners, Research Quarterly (April, 1995).
11. Wallman, S.M.H. (1991), "The Proper Interpretation of Corporate Constituency Statutes and Formulation of Director Duties," Stetson
Law Review 21:1, pp. 163-196.
12. Defenders of Property Rights, http://www.defendersproprights.org.
13. Hall, B. and Kerr, M.L. (1991), 1991-1992 Green Index (WA D.C.: Island Press).
14. Frum, D. and Wolfe, F. (January 17, 1994), "If You Gotta Get Sued, Get Sued in UT," Forbes
15. The Fact Book 1995, Insurance Information Institute, NY (LOC HG8523 .I52).

It might be worthwhile getting some of these, if they aren't too horribly expensive. We might find things specifically for FSP purposes that are not in the economic indices.
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freedomroad

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Re:More and other criteria to weigh states with
« Reply #89 on: February 07, 2003, 03:47:48 pm »

Quote
One of the reasons I'm not terribly thrilled about this measure is that it is a bit outdated.

A few years don't matter much. All this stuff is a snapshot.

BTW, guys, I just realized we have another good indicator not yet in the spreadsheet. I haven't time this second to look through our stuff, but I know there was some discussion of "right-to-work" laws. Can't we fit this into our table?

Or is this part of one of the economic indices? And how about minimum wage and living wage laws, are they in there too?

If no one figures this out I will dig it out when I have time to look at it (I'm in the middle of a move just now!)

I looked these numbers up and posted them to the board.  I have right-to-work on my spreadsheet.  I also added hunting, peaceable jouney laws, speed limit laws, medical pot laws, and fire work laws.  I posted some of this stuff to the board, other people posted the rest of it.

here are the numbers I have:

Category    Var. (state weights) WY AK ND VT SD DE MT ID NH ME
Peace Journey 1                   10  10  0   10    0  0   10 10 0    0
Hunting laws    1                   10  8   3    10   1  0  9    7  3   3
Fire Works      1                   10  10  10   0   10 0  10  5   5   2.5
Medical Pot      1                   0   10   0    0    0  0  0    0  0  10
Speed Limits    2                   10  2.5 5    0   10 0  10 10 5  2.5

According to just these variables WY, AK, and MT are the best,
ND, SD, ID, ME, and VT are somewhere in the middle
and NH and DE are the worst.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2003, 01:31:52 am by FreedomRoad »
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