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Author Topic: Can Law Enforcement and FSP coexist?  (Read 4197 times)

lauravdn

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Can Law Enforcement and FSP coexist?
« on: January 21, 2015, 12:08:35 am »

Hello- My family is on the search for a place to call home. We have lived on the west coast our entire lives but are strongly drawn to the NE. While researching New Hampshire I discovered the FSP and after watching the hour long video and doing a little research I am really loving this! My question is- would my husband, who is trying to make a career in law enforcement, be able to not only find a good job there, in NH, but also be able to be a respected member of the FSP? The video seemed to highlight a huge division between citizens and law enforcement. He has a background in LE and really enjoys the community aspects of watching out for others, making sure things are overall safe, etc, and both he and I agree there are HUGE problems in our law enforcement here in the U.S. He is trying to get away from the big government aspects of it, which he was trained in, and would like to be a police officer or work for a sheriff dept. in a small community where we can settle down with our two children, have a cow or two, a bunch of chickens, bees, a garden, etc. We love homeschooling and public schools and often go back and forth. We love our gun rights and would eventually like to open up an arms store. For about 5 years now have decided we side mostly as libertarians, however the disdain for law enforcement is what has always been difficult for us, because it often feels like a slap in the face of his career choice.

We would love to see a change in the way law enforcement presents itself in communities and would love to be a part of that. If we move to NH, it would be a HUGE move for us and hopefully our last move. After 13 moves across 6 state lines in 10 years of marriage we are ready to find home. Do you think we could do it there? Are there other law enforcement personnel there getting involved in this movement or do they tend to stay pretty separate? Does the LE seem more or less corrupt there than in other parts of the nation? We like the term "peace officer" because we really believe that is more of what a police officer should be... a citizen helping keep the peace, not taking away rights or running a bully complex. With this attitude should we "hide" who we are while trying to find a job there, and then let it shine once in, or let our opinions fly in hopes other LE personnel would find it as a positive note in the hiring process? 
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freedomroad

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Re: Can Law Enforcement and FSP coexist?
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2015, 02:37:16 am »

Hello- My family is on the search for a place to call home. We have lived on the west coast our entire lives but are strongly drawn to the NE. While researching New Hampshire I discovered the FSP and after watching the hour long video and doing a little research I am really loving this! My question is- would my husband, who is trying to make a career in law enforcement, be able to not only find a good job there, in NH, but also be able to be a respected member of the FSP?

The FSP doesn't have members, it has participants. I wouldn't suggest  NH police in Concord declared FSP participants to be terrorists. Manchester police consider free staters to be gang members. Putting information about the FSP on an application might cause you to not get a job.

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We would love to see a change in the way law enforcement presents itself in communities and would love to be a part of that. If we move to NH, it would be a HUGE move for us and hopefully our last move. After 13 moves across 6 state lines in 10 years of marriage we are ready to find home. Do you think we could do it there? Are there other law enforcement personnel there getting involved in this movement or do they tend to stay pretty separate? Does the LE seem more or less corrupt there than in other parts of the nation?

As long as you pretend to not mind that many police hate people and consider FSPers to be terrorists, you should do fine in NH. The police tend to be slightly less corrupt in NH than in big cities, from what I can tell. Personally, I don' come close to trusting any of them. On the other hand, none of them have been an extreme problem in my life.

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With this attitude should we "hide" who we are while trying to find a job there, and then let it shine once in, or let our opinions fly in hopes other LE personnel would find it as a positive note in the hiring process?  

Police and their bosses tend to be anti-freedom extremists. When trying to get a job, it is best to not express opinions that are the exact opposite of your potential boss.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 08:08:42 pm by 1DayAtATime »
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elkingrey

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Re: Can Law Enforcement and FSP coexist?
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2015, 08:43:35 am »

Has your husband ever considered becoming a private security guard?

The problem with police is that their job requires them to violate the non-aggression principle on a daily basis. Libertarian activists are generally less concerned about a person's intentions, and more concerned about a person's actions. You might fancy yourself a good freedom loving person. But if you're kidnapping peaceful people and throwing them into cages, you're a bad person, period.

Private security guards generally don't do that sort of thing. Their job is to protect property, not kick down people's doors for smoking pot.

Jerry

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Re: Can Law Enforcement and FSP coexist?
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2015, 04:34:26 pm »

Consider also that the police chiefs in many small towns in New Hampshire are ELECTED.

If the town is small enough, a few hundred votes could get you the job.

Where were you a few years ago when the folks in Grafton were beating the bushes for a liberty minded candidate for police chief?
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 04:39:34 pm by Jerry »
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JasonPSorens

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Re: Can Law Enforcement and FSP coexist?
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2015, 09:58:15 am »

There are some liberty folks in police work in the area - not a lot, but definitely several. Some of them find that their jobs are difficult given the ethical dilemmas they face, especially in larger cities where the enforcement priorities often include vices, and where you're taking orders rather than exercising your own judgment. There are plenty of small NH towns with basically one police officer (like Grafton), and there you'd be able to exercise enforcement discretion. In those places, I'd rather have a liberty cop than an antiliberty one.
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"Educate your children, educate yourselves, in the love for the freedom of others, for only in this way will your own freedom not be a gratuitous gift from fate. You will be aware of its worth and will have the courage to defend it." --Joaquim Nabuco (1883), Abolitionism

Mr. Magniloquent

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Re: Can Law Enforcement and FSP coexist?
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2015, 11:12:24 pm »

I don't believe they are compatible. While much of what you've written sounds great, that "occupation" is compensated with stolen and extorted money. Even if your husband did the moral thing and disobeyed every statute, order, law, code, etc. he'd still be living on protection money. There is nothing free about that.
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Jerry B

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Re: Can Law Enforcement and FSP coexist?
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2015, 09:26:56 am »

Government ownership of the means of production in security and policing is just another program of socialism. A  very informative article on that is "Law Enforcement Socialism" by Anthony Gregory.

http://mises.org/library/law-enforcement-socialism
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Kamekazi Seagull

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Re: Can Law Enforcement and FSP coexist?
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2015, 12:18:11 pm »

You won't find any hatred coming from minarchists who believe a police and court system are an essential government function. That said, I would agree that there is a lack of respect for the profession amongst most FSPers. From your description, I can think of several departments where I'd rather see your husband out on the police force than some of the other jack boots. I personally feel that there are way too many police officers at least in the southeastern part of the seacoast with Seabrook particularly having a bad reputation.

There are plenty of FSPers whose previous work dealt with the government, ex-military, ex-cops, research scientists etc...perhaps your husband can look at alternative careers and join their ranks.

Compared to the police found in the Los Angeles area, NH cops are not as corrupt, but will certainly harass you more due to their sheer per capita representation.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2015, 09:50:48 am by Kamekazi Seagull »
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slothman

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Re: Can Law Enforcement and FSP coexist?
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2015, 06:21:43 pm »

I don't believe they are compatible. While much of what you've written sounds great, that "occupation" is compensated with stolen and extorted money. Even if your husband did the moral thing and disobeyed every statute, order, law, code, etc. he'd still be living on protection money. There is nothing free about that.

Does that mean you are against taking any gov't money?
What about SS that you already put money into; so you are like getting your money back, even though it is still taxes?
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IamJohnGalt

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Re: Can Law Enforcement and FSP coexist?
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2015, 03:07:03 pm »

I'm just a guy that is looking for complete personal liberty, I haven't made the move, and don't plan on it until I know that the FSP is legitimate and possible.  I will say that I have a lot of respect for your husband and truly believe that if we could figure out how to duplicate your husband to replace every non-liberty officer, the world would be a better place!  I hope you guys continue to seek your free choice rights and that your beliefs as a peace officer becomes contagious where ever you go.  I live in the "yuppy" suburb of Metro Milwaukee in Wisconsin and due to our lack of real crime all our police force does is enforce victimless crimes to generate income and here we have a judicial system that is twice as corrupt as the police departments.  It has gotten so bad here that now the police write BS traffic tickets in an attempt to try to find other criminal violations and then when you go to court they offer you to pay the fine and then change the ticket so it is nothing more than a parking ticket...If you plea not guilty and prove it in court, then the judges just ignore the laws and hit you with punitive measures for challenging authority like forcing any trial case to traffic school which costs an extra $100-200 in addition to paying the ticket.  I pray for police officers like your husband because finding one's that aren't in it for the power seems to be almost impossible to find.
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Mr. Magniloquent

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Re: Can Law Enforcement and FSP coexist?
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2015, 08:17:43 pm »

I don't believe they are compatible. While much of what you've written sounds great, that "occupation" is compensated with stolen and extorted money. Even if your husband did the moral thing and disobeyed every statute, order, law, code, etc. he'd still be living on protection money. There is nothing free about that.

Does that mean you are against taking any gov't money?
What about SS that you already put money into; so you are like getting your money back, even though it is still taxes?

Yes, whenever avoidable. Especially when it is directly--this includes contracting. The State is a parasite, and those employed within it or by it, no matter how well meaning, are giving on extorted blood-money. Unfortunately, the USG has infested nearly all parts of daily life to a degree, so no doubt someone could link any occupation to "government" money. As towards SS, no, I have no plans on collecting, nor needing to. I avoid contributing whenever possible, and seek its outright abolition--though insolvency will likely do that for me before I get anywhere near the age where I will be eligible to claim it.
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res0r9lm

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Re: Can Law Enforcement and FSP coexist?
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2015, 04:52:42 pm »

LE have spent their whole career violating the constitution.
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