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Topic: Iraqi resistance has a right to fight American invaders (Read 7017 times)
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Dreepa
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Look what Israel did in the past 40 years. Look what all the other middle east countries have done.....If it wasn't for oil ...
Also the idea of a Palestinian people is a myth.
I say nuke the whole f**' area and be done with it.
-- sorry my moment of rage has ended.
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nonluddite
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2) Zionism is a racist ideology. I have a Jewish friend who lived in Israel for 6 years, whose parents and grandparents are avowed Zionists. He is the one who convinced me that Zionism is racist.
Note: the Jews can't be racists againsts Arabs--they are both Caucasian semitic peoples. I have to laugh out loud when the media accuses an Arab of "anti-semitism"! There are also practicing Jews of every race, so are they racist or are they just anti-anything-but-the-Jewish-religion? |
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"I'm trying to free your mind, but I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it."- Morpheous, The Matrix
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Green
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2) Zionism is a racist ideology. I have a Jewish friend who lived in Israel for 6 years, whose parents and grandparents are avowed Zionists. He is the one who convinced me that Zionism is racist.
Note: the Jews can't be racists againsts Arabs--they are both Caucasian semitic peoples. I have to laugh out loud when the media accuses an Arab of "anti-semitism"! There are also practicing Jews of every race, so are they racist or are they just anti-anything-but-the-Jewish-religion? Race is a social construct that can exist independent of ethnic background. |
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"The liberty of man consists solely in this: that he obeys natural laws because he has himself recognized them as such, and not because they have been externally imposed upon him by any extrinsic will whatever, divine or human, collective or individual." -Mikhail Bakunin
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maverickthree
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Then following your reasoning Zionism then is nothing more than "social contructionism." And a
good bulk of Palestinian oppression over the course of the past decades has come at the hands
of other Palestinians or other Arabs. As an example Jordan expelled the PLO from its country in
the early 70's(one couldn't blame them either because the PLO was attempting to destablize the
country) and killed 30, 000 Palestinians in the process. How come we never hear about that or
the anti-democratic nature(up until recently) of the Palestinian Authority?
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« Last Edit: February 28, 2005, 12:46:14 pm by maverickthree »
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Evil men rule when good men do nothing.
Those with the best information are most likely to succeed.
Extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice. And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.
----Barry Goldwater
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Green
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Then following your reasoning Zionism then is nothing more than "social contructionism."
Not quite, but Racism is also a social practice or ideology justifying racial oppression. I'm not quite sure what you're saying there, but Zionism is a social ideology, and used to justify the oppression of the Palestinean people. |
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"The liberty of man consists solely in this: that he obeys natural laws because he has himself recognized them as such, and not because they have been externally imposed upon him by any extrinsic will whatever, divine or human, collective or individual." -Mikhail Bakunin
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maverickthree
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Zionism is nothing more than a desire on the part of a group of people to want to have their own
state (which they do). It is aspiration shared by many other groups---Kurds, Armenians etc. And
you view this as evil? The Palestinians back in 1948 were offered their own state and rejected the
offer.
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Evil men rule when good men do nothing.
Those with the best information are most likely to succeed.
Extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice. And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.
----Barry Goldwater
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Sebastian
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IMHO, the resignation of the Lebanese government today will play right into Bush's hand.
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Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for yourself.
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Green
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Zionism is nothing more than a desire on the part of a group of people to want to have their own
state (which they do). Right, and no one else has any rights in this state unless the Israeli government says so, even though they were living there prior to the arrival of most of the Jewish settlers. It is aspiration shared by many other groups---Kurds, Armenians etc. And
you view this as evil? The Palestinians back in 1948 were offered their own state and rejected the
offer.
I'm not going to get into a big debate on the Israeli/Palestinean conflict with you. I think this just further illustrates the fact that the LP is rightwing, when everyone is defending Zionism and the military occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Nothing personal  |
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« Last Edit: March 01, 2005, 02:30:51 am by Green »
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"The liberty of man consists solely in this: that he obeys natural laws because he has himself recognized them as such, and not because they have been externally imposed upon him by any extrinsic will whatever, divine or human, collective or individual." -Mikhail Bakunin
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maverickthree
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I don't speak for the libertarian party. The Indians were living on our shores prior to our arrival too,
Green, but like the Palestinians, they were really a little bit behind the times in terms of "property
development." When the Israelis came in, they turned an arid desert into fertile farmland and
built cities. The Israelis have even built apartment buildings for many of the refugees, but the
Palestinian leadership under Arafat refused to let the people move into them, instead exploiting
them for international propaganda purposes. Again, back in 1948, the Palestinians had an oppor-
tunity for a state. The reason they turned it down was because they had no intentions of peace-
ful co-existence with Israel. If you recall, it was only in the late 90's that they removed language
from their charter calling for the destruction of Israel. As the song goes, "You don't always get
what you WANT, but you get what you NEED." The Palestinians had a chance back in 1948 to
have their NEEDS met, but they were too greedy, or should I say their "leadership" was too greedy,
and the Palestinian people subsequently paid a very high price for it. Hopefully, now with Arafat
gone and more moderate leadership in place, there will be a REAL chance for peace in the region.
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« Last Edit: March 01, 2005, 07:33:35 pm by maverickthree »
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Evil men rule when good men do nothing.
Those with the best information are most likely to succeed.
Extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice. And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.
----Barry Goldwater
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citizen_142002
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Zionism supposes that the Jews are the "chosen people" of God, not so different from a master race complex.
Israels human rights record is mute in my opinion. The Israelis fired on the USS Liberty, she was a clearly marked US intelligence ship in international waters. The attack lasted over three hours from aircraft and small gunboats that came as close as 50 yards while the machine gunned American sailors. The incident was clearly an intentional attack, but since it was during the cold war we had reasons to sweep it under the rug. That attack killed over 30 US citizens.
Israel also attempted, and was successful at stealing information from our nuclear programs.
I am not anti-semitic, but I am fervently anti-Zionist. Zionism seeks to promote one religion/race, and to hell with anyone who gets in the way. Israel manipulates the United States and is not worthy of our support, if anything it deserves an artillery bombardment, and that's no joke.
In todays society, anyone who says a word against Israel is labeled a Nazi, but take a look at Israels actions and the control that the government exercises over everyone in that region, I think you'll see who the real fascists are. Not to mention that Israel is not far from a straight up theocracy, it is the Jewish State, and so it is governed by Jewish law. I don't care what religion you're dealing with, a theocracy is far from liberty friendly.
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maverickthree
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First of all, zionism is simply an ideology which holds that the Jews are a people or nation, like any
other, and should gather together in a single homeland. With respect to the USS Liberty incident
I have heard arguments on both sides and am still undecided(need to study it further, but it isn't
a priority right now). One should remember though that friendly fire incidents are very common
in war time. Our experiences in Iraq and Afghanistan have borne that out. Finally, with respect to
Israel, it is ridiculous to say that it is a theocracy. The ultra-orthodox Jews in Israel proper constitute
a MINORITY and they do not hold very many high level leadership positions in government. Israeli
society today is becoming increasingly secular and this has created much turmoil in Israeli society and politics. You may have issues with Israel's style of government, but then you must remember that in some spots the country is only 13 miles wide and given the fact that it is surrounded by hostile neighbors who have attacked it in major wars over the past decades perhaps their "bellicosity" can be a little more understandable.
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Evil men rule when good men do nothing.
Those with the best information are most likely to succeed.
Extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice. And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.
----Barry Goldwater
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Green
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First of all, zionism is simply an ideology which holds that the Jews are a people or nation, like any
other, and should gather together in a single homeland. With respect to the USS Liberty incident
I have heard arguments on both sides and am still undecided(need to study it further, but it isn't
a priority right now). One should remember though that friendly fire incidents are very common
in war time. Our experiences in Iraq and Afghanistan have borne that out. Finally, with respect to
Israel, it is ridiculous to say that it is a theocracy. The ultra-orthodox Jews in Israel proper constitute
a MINORITY and they do not hold very many high level leadership positions in government. Israeli
society today is becoming increasingly secular and this has created much turmoil in Israeli society and politics. You may have issues with Israel's style of government, but then you must remember that in some spots the country is only 13 miles wide and given the fact that it is surrounded by hostile neighbors who have attacked it in major wars over the past decades perhaps their "bellicosity" can be a little more understandable.
I never said Israel was a theocracy. It is simply anti-democratic. |
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"The liberty of man consists solely in this: that he obeys natural laws because he has himself recognized them as such, and not because they have been externally imposed upon him by any extrinsic will whatever, divine or human, collective or individual." -Mikhail Bakunin
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nonluddite
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I'm not going to get into a big debate on the Israeli/Palestinean conflict with you. I think this just further illustrates the fact that the LP is rightwing, when everyone is defending Zionism and the military occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Nothing personal But it is! You bitch and moan if we throw you in with Stalin, but you feel perfectlly justified to equate libertarian with "Jewish labdogs"! WE ARE NOT MONOLITHIC!  |
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"I'm trying to free your mind, but I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it."- Morpheous, The Matrix
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Green
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I'm not going to get into a big debate on the Israeli/Palestinean conflict with you. I think this just further illustrates the fact that the LP is rightwing, when everyone is defending Zionism and the military occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Nothing personal But it is! You bitch and moan if we throw you in with Stalin, but you feel perfectlly justified to equate libertarian with "Jewish labdogs"! WE ARE NOT MONOLITHIC! My apologies. I just get irritated because people seem unusually hostile to my views on international affairs, which I was kind of hoping they'd be more recpptive seeing as the LP also advocates a foriegn policy of non-intervention and peace. btw...I give Badnarik alot of credit for his principled "Troops home now!" plank. From what I understand, there was a faction of the LP openly supporting the war in Iraq and that abandoned Badnarik for his anti-war stance. Kudos to him and his supporters. Now its an issue of rebuilding the anti-war movement to the size it was before the initial invasion, so we can put tons of pressure on the Bush administration to get out ASAP. Right now our campus anti-war group is protesting military recruiters on campus on a regular basis. Unfortunately, we're still small. Just need to get all the !@#$%^ liberals involved again since the Kerry campaign demobolized and demoralized them. |
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« Last Edit: March 02, 2005, 12:00:41 am by Green »
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"The liberty of man consists solely in this: that he obeys natural laws because he has himself recognized them as such, and not because they have been externally imposed upon him by any extrinsic will whatever, divine or human, collective or individual." -Mikhail Bakunin
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rdeacon
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One should remember though that friendly fire incidents are very common
in war time. Just like the Lavon Affair, right? Israel is a threat to global security, moreso even than the tyrants in the House of Saud. While the concept of Israel is a good idea, the current incarnation is dangerous and destructive. The fact that America funds it to the tune of a billion dollars in military aid per year doesn't help the situation. |
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« Last Edit: March 02, 2005, 12:05:53 am by rdeacon »
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