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Author Topic: Can the IRS sieze IRA accounts?  (Read 2070 times)
FreedomZealot
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Can the IRS sieze IRA accounts?
« on: April 12, 2004, 06:29:29 pm »

Can the IRS sieze Individual Retirement Accounts (be they traditional or ROTH IRAs)?  Just wondering...
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Re:Can the IRS sieze IRA accounts?
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2004, 07:23:58 pm »

As far as I know the IRS can seize whatever it wants, that definately includes anything inside the traditional banking/financial system.

Even though I know the tax system is terrible I will comply just because I never want to have to deal with the IRS. I mean they can make your life a living nightmare SO fast. You could wake up the next morning with all your bank accounts frozen, liens on your house etc. And all of this will go on outside the courtroom, eventually you will get to court but in the mean time all of your assets could be frozen/confiscated in a heartbeat.
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The Federal Reserve & Treasury Department print the currency, the people add value to the currency, then the IRS proceeds to extract the currency.

Solution: stop using government currency.
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Re:Can the IRS sieze IRA accounts?
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2004, 08:15:44 pm »

The IRS truly is a terrorist organization.
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Re:Can the IRS sieze IRA accounts?
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2004, 09:14:29 pm »

"It is arguable that IRS' levy attaches to an IRA account. An IRA account can be liquidated unconditionally by the owner at any time, provided that he is prepared to pay the taxes on the accrued interest, plus the 10% early withdrawal penalty. When IRS does levy on an IRA account, the insult to injury is that, in paying off an old tax liability, the taxpayer incurs a new one."

From: http://www.irstax.com/irslevy.htm

Google search turned up this article.  I cannot attest to its accuracy.  Smiley

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Re:Can the IRS sieze IRA accounts?
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2004, 09:38:07 pm »

"It is arguable that IRS' levy attaches to an IRA account. An IRA account can be liquidated unconditionally by the owner at any time, provided that he is prepared to pay the taxes on the accrued interest, plus the 10% early withdrawal penalty. When IRS does levy on an IRA account, the insult to injury is that, in paying off an old tax liability, the taxpayer incurs a new one."

From: http://www.irstax.com/irslevy.htm

Google search turned up this article.  I cannot attest to its accuracy.  Smiley



Yeah but check this out:

Quote
If the third party refuses to honor the levy, the IRS usually serves a Final Demand, Form 668-C. If the third party still refuses to turn over the property, the IRS may turn the matter over to the U.S. Justice Department for prosecution under IRC §6332(a). If convicted, the third party may be held personally liable for the value of any property not surrendered to the IRS. IRC §6332(d)(1) imposes a personal liability on any person who fails or refuses to honor the levy.

Whatever third party has your IRA is going to comply with whatever the IRS tells them to do. If they want to put a levy on the IRA, freeze it or whatever no one is going to stand in their way, trust me.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2004, 09:38:51 pm by Dissipate » Logged

The Federal Reserve & Treasury Department print the currency, the people add value to the currency, then the IRS proceeds to extract the currency.

Solution: stop using government currency.
FreedomZealot
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Re:Can the IRS sieze IRA accounts?
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2004, 10:12:50 am »

If somebody were trying to avoid taxes,  should they or should they not have an IRA account?  


If the IRS can sieze IRA accounts,  then it seems to me that maybe somebody shouldn't have one.  But then again,  IRA money can be deducted from one's tax bill so perhaps one should have an IRA account so they can subtract that from their taxes.


I've been studying the income tax issue on and off for the past few years and I agree with those who say that the system is a big sham and that an American citizen who earns money by working within the 50 states is not liable for income tax.  Of course on the flip side,  the IRS can still make ones life a living hell even though they are acting illegally.  



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Tracy Saboe
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Re:Can the IRS sieze IRA accounts?
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2004, 11:43:09 am »

Go here, and make copies of it and distribute them on April 15th.

http://www.861.info
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Re:Can the IRS sieze IRA accounts?
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2004, 02:10:18 pm »

If somebody were trying to avoid taxes,  should they or should they not have an IRA account?  


If the IRS can sieze IRA accounts,  then it seems to me that maybe somebody shouldn't have one.  But then again,  IRA money can be deducted from one's tax bill so perhaps one should have an IRA account so they can subtract that from their taxes.


I've been studying the income tax issue on and off for the past few years and I agree with those who say that the system is a big sham and that an American citizen who earns money by working within the 50 states is not liable for income tax.  Of course on the flip side,  the IRS can still make ones life a living hell even though they are acting illegally.  



www.GiveMeLiberty.org

Well there is a difference between evasion and avoidance. To avoid a tax is to change your behavior legally in order to not pay it. So yes, if someone is trying to avoid paying the tax then an IRA is an avenue of doing so. Evasion means you are supplying the government with false data or violating the tax code in some way.

If aliens from a more advanced civilization came down to Earth and proclaimed that they were more advanced than humans (or at least Americans) in a conference and someone asked them what evidence they had they would merely have to pull out the income tax code (in all its enormity).

The very idea that someone must supply information about their own finances and then have that used against them is nothing less than a criminal interrogation. The whole problem stems from the fact that people use government money. Once people (or even groups of people) cease using government money taxation will be much more difficult. Think about it, if you have a private currency the government cannot demand that you pay your taxes in that private currency, it has to have a particular government currency that you pay taxes with. Let's say it estimates the value of your income by comparing the value of the government currency to the value of your private currency and then forces you to convert your private currency to the government currency to pay your tax. Ok, so you have paid the tax in the government's currency but that doesn't mean people in the economy have to accept government currency, making government currency worthless.

Therefore, the whole problem stems from the common acceptance of government currency.

In essence people have voluntarily submitted themselves to government power, not to justify the income tax and the actions of the IRS but people are a victim of their own ignorance. Don't like income taxes? Stop using and accepting government money. Easier said than done currently, I know, but it is a solution to the problem and I see no way of the government getting around it.
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The Federal Reserve & Treasury Department print the currency, the people add value to the currency, then the IRS proceeds to extract the currency.

Solution: stop using government currency.
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Re:Can the IRS sieze IRA accounts?
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2004, 03:11:37 pm »

The only true way to avoid taxes is to not participate in any taxable activities or own any taxable assets.

The super-rich don't pay taxes because technically, they really don't own all their wealth. Their wealth is owned by trusts. H.L. Hunt, for example, died owning only a $4,000 pickup truck, despite being worth over a billion dollars.

You can use a trust to shield your assets as well, you just have to be willing to surrender ownership to a third party in a trust relationship, while still enjoying the benefits of use of the assets. While technically not in control of the assets of the trust (the trustee is) you do retain the right to replace the trustee. Because of this, your annual "list of wishes" are adhered to by trustees who wish to remain trustees.

Suze Orman, the personal finance guru, talks about irrevocable living trusts as a means to avoid death taxes. They can also be used to avoid income taxes, depending on how you structure your vocation.

For example, if you write a book, you gift the copyright or royalty rights to a trust you set up. You then plan your annual living needs into your "list of wishes" recommending the trust buy a home or lease a condo for your use, purchase a car for your use, etc.

Now, you wonder how you could do this with a regular job. Simple: be a volunteer. Trust fund babies do this all the time, they 'volunteer' with various non-profit and for-profit entities, so they earn no income. Instead, the terms of their volunteer position are that the employer will donate certain funds to your trust. If you structure your trust to have a purpose beyond supporting your own lifestyle, like shaving the whales or spreading liberty in the Free State, such that it can be classified as a charity, your ostensible employer can write off its 'donation' to your trust in its own taxes.
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FreedomZealot
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Re:Can the IRS sieze IRA accounts?
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2004, 11:55:25 am »

So should tax resisters (as in people in the tax honesty movement like We The People Foundation and etc...) have IRA accounts or not?Huh
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DustinD
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Re:Can the IRS sieze IRA accounts?
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2004, 02:32:42 pm »

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like shaving the whales or spreading liberty in the Free State
That is too funny.  Grin Good informative post though.
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Re:Can the IRS sieze IRA accounts?
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2004, 11:53:19 pm »

So should tax resisters (as in people in the tax honesty movement like We The People Foundation and etc...) have IRA accounts or not?Huh

No, I think you are lot better off with offshore accounts.
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The Federal Reserve & Treasury Department print the currency, the people add value to the currency, then the IRS proceeds to extract the currency.

Solution: stop using government currency.
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