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Topic: Liberty & Religion (Read 2038 times)
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Joey
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Well, it's nice to see that my plans are working. We've gotten past the bash-BillG-the-land-communist phase to actually debating and discussing real things. Not to say bashing communists isn't a lofty proposition, but I did want to mention, in reply to all of those posts on the "The events to come" thread, that true liberty and freedom can be found in having a personal relationship with the Christian (and only true) God. That's it for now about the religion and liberty subject, and I apologize for not reading the rules and terms of agreement fully on the forum posts/threads. I've stirred the pot. That feels real good. Keep the shrink-evaluations coming, though! They're hilarious. And one of these days, I'm going to get a photo of me in a white rubber-walled room lol. That was by far the funniest post I've seen on here so far lol. I have nothing against anyone personally; I just have opinions that counter the politically correct and alternative lifestyles. To say Right-Wing Christian Libertarians are in the minority would be an understatement. Thanks to bookish_lass for sticking up for me. What can I say, I'm stirring the pot and generating discussion. But I have found true freedom and independence first by being led by God, which in turn, makes me more apt to defend freedom and independence here on earth. http://www.joeydauben.com |
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Joey
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And not to worry, I'm not one of those stereotypical conservative Christians who believe this country was founded by Christians; not all of our founders were Christians.
A very, very, very big conglomerate were Masons, and as a true God-fearing Christian, members of that society do not follow the true God.
I just wanted to clarify.
I hope everyone on this forum plans to attend the FSP Festival in June. If I'm still invited, we'll have plenty to talk about and stuff; it will be fun.
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demarkus
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You know, extreme, right-wing, bible-thumping, bible-is-the-word-of-God Christians aren't really all that bad. Thinking back, I'm pretty sure my grandmother was one.
All I've ever wanted from any group, whether Christians or otherwise is that they be consistent. As long as they are, I can usually get along with them pretty well.
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It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
- Voltaire
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Reaper
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All I want from them is to be left alone!
Sadly, seem it is too much to ask of most of them.
Just this weekend my car was vandalized because some "good christian people" objected to my bumper sticker ("Religion stops a thinking mind") and apparently god told them to rip it off my car and slash my tires.
Fortunately I have a video camera which monitors and records my front yard. Didn't take long for the cops to pick them up.
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Reaper
Proud member of the FSP's lunatic fringe!
"If we turn from battle because there is little hope of victory, where then would valor be? Let it ever be the goal that stirs us, not the odds."
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SteveA
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Not to say bashing communists isn't a lofty proposition, but I did want to mention, in reply to all of those posts on the "The events to come" thread, that true liberty and freedom can be found in having a personal relationship with the Christian (and only true) God. I agree liberty and freedom come from internal traits and it is important for people to place their personal convictions or ideals beyond the reach of other men. The ability for men to hold even their leaders accountable to a standard is what has kept America great for a long time. This can be attributed to both a strong underpinning in our belief that all men are created equal and deserve fair and just treatment according to their merit. Equality and justice instead of inequality and tolerance of injustice guarantee our freedom. When we make an exception or compromise away these ideals, we give up some of our freedom. Religion and government are actually very similar IMO. Religions, just like governments are an important evolutionary tool for societies. Someone makes a set of rules, tries to convert followers and the merits of those rules are proved out in the real world. Religion is more fundamental than government in that its form can be varied from the spiritual pride of an individual to a strict code of moral conduct for a group of people. Some religions even have enforcement officers and wealth redistribution. Religious diversity and freedom are paramount to having a free society. The key is still to keep any one from disallowing others to exist and that should be the underlying moral for any free society and reflected by them in how they use government. |
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"Fruitless, born a thousand times, lies barren. Unguided inspiration, yields random motion, circumscribed in destination, going nowhere. Guidance uninspired, always true in facing, stands immobile. But fixed upon that destination firmly and with inspiration lofted; beget your dreams."
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Reaper
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true liberty and freedom can be found in having a personal relationship with the Christian (and only true) God.
That's it for now about the religion and liberty subject, and I apologize for not reading the rules and terms of agreement fully on the forum posts/threads.
So, because you have a "personal relationship" with god you are no longer subject to income taxes, unconstitutional searches and seizures and other tyrranical federal regulations? Is there an IRS form for that? You fill it out, send in to the feds and they have database of persons exempt from federal tyrrany due to their "personal relationship with god"?  |
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Reaper
Proud member of the FSP's lunatic fringe!
"If we turn from battle because there is little hope of victory, where then would valor be? Let it ever be the goal that stirs us, not the odds."
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SteveA
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So, because you have a "personal relationship" with god you are no longer subject to income taxes, unconstitutional searches and seizures and other tyrranical federal regulations? In a sense this is true. Every religious group that feels strongly about these makes a difference. |
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"Fruitless, born a thousand times, lies barren. Unguided inspiration, yields random motion, circumscribed in destination, going nowhere. Guidance uninspired, always true in facing, stands immobile. But fixed upon that destination firmly and with inspiration lofted; beget your dreams."
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Joey
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I'll need the IRS to make me eligible for tons of college tuition money (supposedly), but yes, because of my religious beliefs, I feel that unreasonable search and seizures and bad laws do not have to be followed. BUT Like a good libertarian, every action has a consequence, and having personal responsibility means that I would be responsible for not obeying those Man-made laws. If that makes any sense... ...is that they be consistent 98 percent of the people on this forum might disagree with all or parts of what I say or stand for, but I can guarantee you that as a candidate for public office past and present, you won't have a problem in finding out -- ever -- where I stand on an issue. And if I don't know the answer, I'll say so. |
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« Last Edit: March 29, 2004, 02:48:46 pm by Joey »
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Joey
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And despite the assertions of many Christians, you do NOT have to render under Caesar's what is Caesar's. Like if it's a bad law or something (i.e., slavery).
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SteveA
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I'll need the IRS to make me eligible for tons of college tuition money (supposedly), but yes, because of my religious beliefs, I feel that unreasonable search and seizures and bad laws do not have to be followed.
BUT
Like a good libertarian, every action has a consequence, and having personal responsibility means that I would be responsible for not obeying those Man-made laws. There are more ways personal beliefs affect government than this. Our elected leaders make decisions and can be swayed by outside forces into voting for certain measures. Having a firm personal belief beyond your own immediate personal gain can keep government legitimately founded in principles (this can be good or bad depending on what principles they are but politicians selling they vote to the highest bidder is bad). Also, voters who hold principle above personal payoff are less likely to have their vote bought by socialist agendas. It's about character and religions don't necessarily have a monopoly in that department. |
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"Fruitless, born a thousand times, lies barren. Unguided inspiration, yields random motion, circumscribed in destination, going nowhere. Guidance uninspired, always true in facing, stands immobile. But fixed upon that destination firmly and with inspiration lofted; beget your dreams."
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Joey
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The principles you speak of are why I think the FSP would be better off having someone like me in office.
Might not agree with how I say/write things, or my personal religious beliefs, but you'd agree with my governing style and voting record.
Ron Paul is my hero.
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Tracy Saboe
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And despite the assertions of many Christians, you do NOT have to render under Caesar's what is Caesar's. Like if it's a bad law or something (i.e., slavery).
Well, the whole thing about that was. The Pharases weren't suppose to have engraven immages in the first place. 2ndly. Those coins actually belonged to Ceasure. In our country, our money is suppose to belong to us. If government is using a certain something for money, some christian libertarians would say it is immoral to use government money, and that we should instead use our own. Tracy |
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micah
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You know, extreme, right-wing, bible-thumping, bible-is-the-word-of-God Christians aren't really all that bad. Thinking back, I'm pretty sure my grandmother was one.
Yeah, but they would probably like the Constitution Party better than the LP. |
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