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Topic: Why should the FSP support secession? (Read 12000 times)
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mark
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New Hampshire as a state is taxed at a higher rate than the state receives services for (mostly unwanted or even unneeded at all).
Why be a U.S. State when you get screwed in the deal?
I read that Gov B (Benson) fixed part of his State Budget with the No Child Left Behind crap. Do you all know about the fact that it's a mere 5 cents from "Uncle" Sam with 10 cent PLUS of mandates? Public Education is glorified daycare!
NO CHILD NEEDS $8000 WORTH OF EDUCATION. That's $800 PER FRICKIN' MONTH. You could send your kid on vacation for a year for that amount. You could send ME on vacation for THAT amount!
$8,310 is what the "State of New Hampshire" collects to pay for other's people's kid's educations.
Succession has always been a taboo issue with the FSP as it evokes images of guns and bombs. Bullshit. This is about simple business.
[Edit: finally corrected thread title, because it was driving me mad - Elizabeth]
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« Last Edit: July 13, 2004, 08:58:25 am by Elizabeth »
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JohnfromDerry
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Succession has always been a taboo issue with the FSP as it evokes images of guns and bombs. Bullshit. This is about simple business.
Maybe not so simple; the last time a state tried to secede it ended with four years of warfare and 600,000 American dead. |
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"Live free or die; Death is not the worst of evils."
-Gen. John Stark
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mark
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Succession has always been a taboo issue with the FSP as it evokes images of guns and bombs. Bullshit. This is about simple business.
Maybe not so simple; the last time a state tried to secede it ended with four years of warfare and 600,000 American dead. We have nukes. j/k [edit: seacoast nuke plant is being referenced here. ok?  ] but we do have better technology aka the internet. |
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« Last Edit: March 05, 2004, 01:08:39 am by mark »
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Tracy Saboe
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AHHH.
I could see secesion launghing another war of Northern Agression.
You know, for the south it was pretty simple too. They were paying about 80% of the cost of the tarrifs.
Still, we could perhaps do it incrimentally. Nullifying a federal law here, and there, untill we don't obey any anymore.
2ndly, I don't want NH to secede because getting a couple Libertarian US Senetors could potentially help liberate the rest of the country. Part of this movement is about making a statement to the rest of the country.
Tracy
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« Last Edit: February 29, 2004, 02:42:49 am by Tracy Saboe »
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protovack
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NO CHILD NEEDS $8000 WORTH OF EDUCATION. That's $800 PER FRICKIN' MONTH. You could send your kid on vacation for a year for that amount. You could send ME on vacation for THAT amount!
Succession has always been a taboo issue with the FSP as it evokes images of guns and bombs. Bullshit. This is about simple business.
Hmmm. So how much should we pay for education? You do realize that the $8000 pays for a lot of things. Howabout a living for teachers, who are some of the most underpaid professionals we have? Howabout clean, warm, safe buildings for our children to socialize and interact with their friends? Howabout providing basic education like math and reading? Not all parents read to their kids. We all know that school curriculum is sometimes flaky. And we all know that schools are basically a training-camp to produce obedient workers. But where are your kids going to go while you're at work, pursuing your economic freedom? Sit at home and watch TV? If the crazy classical-libertarians want to ransack the public education system, then count me out of the FSP. |
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« Last Edit: March 04, 2004, 04:21:46 am by protovack »
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Tracy Saboe
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Parhaps parents should start taking responsibility for raising, teaching, and parenting their own kids?
Tracy
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protovack
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Yes parents definetly play a huge role in their child's education. But reality necessitates that we put the damn kids somewhere while we work.  And on the point of being against taxes going to schools....WAKE UP PEOPLE! Every single government building is built by a private corporation, earning profit, because they are entrepreneurs! Yes, even schools are built by corporations. So is everything inside them. And very cheaply. Good thing China is full of morons, isn't it?
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vermass
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Yanked our son out of daycare a month ago. My fiancee works 7-3, I work 3-11. He no longer has to listen to that peacemonger crap while our government engages in legislative warfare against the people. We're also going to homeschool.
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"Give me liberty or give me death!"
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Karl
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Hmmm. So how much should we pay for education?
The average tuition for private elementary school is $2,138. For secondary school it is $3,116. ( Source.) You do realize that the $8000 pays for a lot of things. Howabout a living for teachers, who are some of the most underpaid professionals we have?
Public school teachers are not underpaid. This is a myth that won't die. Public teachers are overpaid. The average salary for a public school teacher is $44,367 ( Source). That does not include benefits such as health insurance, retirement plans, or getting the entire summer off from work. According to the same source, private school teachers earn "less," despite the fact that private schools are widely acknowledged as superior. This suggests that the true market value of teacher services is lower than the government scheduled rate. Howabout clean, warm, safe buildings for our children to socialize and interact with their friends? Howabout providing basic education like math and reading? Not all parents read to their kids.
Private schools provide all those things at half the cost or less, and are higher quality. We all know that school curriculum is sometimes flaky. And we all know that schools are basically a training-camp to produce obedient workers.
But where are your kids going to go while you're at work, pursuing your economic freedom? Sit at home and watch TV?
We have no intention of ending public schools and replacing it with nothing. Private schools and home schools will replace the failed and overpriced public schools. If the crazy classical-libertarians want to ransack the public education system, then count me out of the FSP.
The crazy educrats are ransacking our pocketbooks and providing crummy education for our children in exchange. Favoring public school is favoring overpriced, ineffective education. |
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« Last Edit: March 04, 2004, 10:58:24 am by Karl Beisel »
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Tracy Saboe
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If the crazy classical-libertarians want to ransack the public education system, then count me out of the FSP.
Well, if that's you're feeling then leave and don't move to New Hampshire. We don't want you. One of my top priorities is the complete seperation of school and state eventually. And many other libertarians here agree with me. (Heck I think even Bill agrees with me on that one.) Where did we ever get the idea that government should tell us how to think! It's ludicris. Are you aware that prior to public education in Michigan that the literacy rate was around 97%? Are you aware that with-in a few years after the state socialized education, that rate dropped down to 92% ? Are you aware that the current literacy rate of people now is quite poor? In fact recently I saw an article on AOL news about a Child car seat company that was sued because it's manual was written at the 10th grade reading level, and people couldn't understand it, because 80% of the population reads at about a 5th grade reading level. You believe our public schools actually teach our kids? I happen to substitute in the local public school system occasionally (Yes, I'm a big hypocrite, but I've got to survive in this welfare state somehow) And I'm amazed at the number of advanced geometry and Algebra students I have who can't so simple arithetic. What's 4% of 500. Ummm. Ahh OK, What's 1% of 500? Ummm, Ahhh. OH divide 500 by 100. <reaches for his calculator> NO, you don't need your calculator. Ummm. OK what's 5 divided by one. Ummm 5? GOOD, so 500, divided by 100 is? UMM. Well the hundreads cancel each other out, so it's 5 too right? OK Is that making sence to you? Sort of. OK so if 1% of 500 is 5, what do you think 4% of 500 would be? Umm, I don't know. what's 5 times 4. UMMM, 20? Exacltly. So 4% of 500, is twenty. These are Algebra Students! They're suposed to understand basic arithmetic. But I half to spoon feed it to them, because the teachers prior to them didn't teach them anything! Why not? Because there's no competition. Once you're a teacher for a couple years, you're part of a coersive union, and it costs hundreads of thousands of dollars to fire you. Even if you're abusive, incompetent, negligent, lazy, or all of the above. Government schools do a good job of teaching government propaganda. But why would I want them to hear that? Tracy |
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« Last Edit: March 04, 2004, 11:45:32 pm by Tracy Saboe »
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adonis79
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Hmmm. So how much should we pay for education? You should pay what is comfortable and in your budget to a school of your choice that has a curriculum that you agree with. Hopefully a school that will help your child reach his/her potential academically, creatively, emotionally, and uphold your ideals in moral and social behavior. You get what you pay for. You do realize that the $8000 pays for a lot of things. How about a living for teachers, who are some of the most underpaid professionals we have? Underpaid when you consider public schools are herding 30-40 kids into a classroom with one tenured unhappy "civil servant". For $8000 many private schools could offer a 12 to 1 ratio. How about clean, warm, safe buildings for our children to socialize and interact with their friends? My five siblings and myself were placed in schools geared for our needs. Between the 6 of us we attended Montessori, Christian based, Catholic, Waldorf, and of course for a few years public. In my experience the public school least represented the ideals you mentioned above. http://freestateproject.org/about/advertising/goosecreek.jspDoes this look like a safe place to send your child? I never saw guns, sex,fights or DRUGS while in private school....When I entered the public prison these things were everywhere around me! How about providing basic education like math and reading? Not all parents read to their kids. I can only stress that having children is not to be taken lightly! Your children will inherent the traits values and knowledge you share with them wouldn't you like to choose who will aid you in this task instead of relying on the public systems ability to hire teachers that love to teach? We all know that school curriculum is sometimes flaky. And we all know that schools are basically a training-camp to produce obedient workers. Well Said! Its robbery a sham and downright unnecessary. I want my children to be Dreamers, inventors, creators, thinkers and most importantly happy. I would hate to put my child in a bootcamp that teaches them to be debt enslaved competitive consumers. But where are your kids going to go while you're at work, pursuing your economic freedom? Sit at home and watch TV? If you really need such a "flaky" civil-sitter they may just be better off spending a few more hours of the day watching the junk on TV and taking in advertisements. Really, if you are without economic funds to educate your child then I suggest you look into the many scholarships available to lower income families directly from private schools. I was the recipient of several grants and in 8th grade worked a job at a flower shop to help with my tuition, just to avoid being sent back to the public dump of a school. Remember we can help each other through charity and community building far more efficiently then the state. If the crazy classical-libertarians want to ransack the public education system, then count me out of the FSP. I think this is exactly what we don't want to do. I just don't want to be forced to pay for your child's bad education but I would gladly support a fund raising project that would help raise private school tuition for your children in the free state....and you can hold me to that. Besides why are we all so afraid of "ransacking aka changing?" a system with the potential of having better results. Besides we will start small, one community at a time. The FSP is offering you a chance to reevaluate the way you perceive the country and your own life and freedom to life. If you find you are unable to see past the public school issue then the FSP is not for you, but if you are able to look closer and see that the FSP is its members and diverse as we are we are ALL looking to build better communities education foreign relations environments etc. and are in need of 1500 more (to start) motivated people that want their kids and grandkids to have a better shot at being better people in a better world. If you are still hung up on the reality that the FSP will create a change in the system you know, well thats ok we understand our species is very reluctant to make change, you wont hurt our feelings. Besides if it works we may be seeking 20,000 more members for "Free State 2" and you will be welcome then too. |
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I have seen the freest among you wear their freedom as a yoke and a handcuff.
And my heart bled within me; for you can only be free when even the desire of freedom becomes a harness to you, and when you cease to speak of freedom as a goal and a fulfillment.
Kahlil Gibran
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mark
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NO CHILD NEEDS $8000 WORTH OF EDUCATION. That's $800 PER FRICKIN' MONTH. You could send your kid on vacation for a year for that amount. You could send ME on vacation for THAT amount!
Succession has always been a taboo issue with the FSP as it evokes images of guns and bombs. Bullshit. This is about simple business.
Hmmm. So how much should we pay for education? You do realize that the $8000 pays for a lot of things. Howabout a living for teachers, who are some of the most underpaid professionals we have? Parents should pay for rational services recieved. So protovack, you think people should live for the expense of others? Yes you do it seems. Average pay for teachers is $40,000. That's with a 3 month vacation. Hook me up. I'll profess whatever communist theories you want for that loot. What do they do more than a babysitter? They stand up in front of a LECTURE CLASS, just like most scam professors, and say stuff. They waste kid's time better spent reading or writing AT HOME or with friends (AT THEIR HOMES). Howabout clean, warm, safe buildings for our children to socialize and interact with their friends? Howabout providing basic education like math and reading? Not all parents read to their kids.
We all know that school curriculum is sometimes flaky. And we all know that schools are basically a training-camp to produce obedient workers.
But where are your kids going to go while you're at work, pursuing your economic freedom? Sit at home and watch TV?
If the crazy classical-libertarians want to ransack the public education system, then count me out of the FSP.
It's warm and cozy in fellow free schooling households. And if you expect other people to pay for your kids day care... sorry... "education"... then you need to find a new social movement to join. You don't expect to pay $8,000 per spawn in New Hampshire property tax do you protovack? Where does that money for YOUR SPAWN... oh sorry, for the "livings of teachers" you care so much about come and go from? Guhbye. *naughty comment* |
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« Last Edit: March 05, 2004, 01:50:47 am by mark »
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mark
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"Not all parents read to their kids" = homeschooling doesn't / won't work.  600,000 people, half of them single mothers, earn less than $7.10 in New York State. Cry me a frickin' river when you say you earn less than $40,000 after 9 months. You scum. You could learn to teach your own kid for free. Pathetic. |
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« Last Edit: March 05, 2004, 01:53:37 am by mark »
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Dawn
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Yes parents definetly play a huge role in their child's education. But reality necessitates that we put the damn kids somewhere while we work. This is certainly not a "necessity", not by a long shot. Too many people these days think that necessities include such things as cell phones, large homes, new cars, anuual vacations (and I'm not talking about camping!), etc. etc. This is what John Taylor Gatto, homeschooling advocate an ex-public school teacher, call mindless consumerism. These are called choices, not necessities. It may not be easy for parents to juggle things so that one parent can be home to take care of, raise and educate their children, but it's a heck of a lot more repsonsible and much better for the children. |
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