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Topic: Shadow Ad Candidates (Read 11896 times)
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rdeacon
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You are arguing for equality, not liberty. According to the news, the Finns themselves are annoyed with this system. Libertarians care about liberty. Only socialists care about equality.
But shouldn't we have equality under law? As for liberty and equality, they are not opposites in the political spectrum (a fact that libertarians often ignore to their detriment). Here's a good article on it: http://www.holisticpolitics.org/index.php?Directory=HolisticPolitics&Page=PageOneSo WHAT if rich folks can shrug off tickets. That is what freedom is about.
If a country makes speeding a crime, it is because it believes that people shouldn't have the liberty to speed. But if a rich person can shrug off a ticket than it effectively puts them above the law. Poor people are only saddled with debt if they speed around like they are rich people. When you can't afford the penalty and live in a system that WILL hold you accountable, you live within your means.
But a crime is not a commodity to be purchased. If a society is going to justify having a speed limit, shouldn't it insure that everybody is equally deterred from speeding? |
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Mike Lorrey
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Poor people are only saddled with debt if they speed around like they are rich people. When you can't afford the penalty and live in a system that WILL hold you accountable, you live within your means.
But a crime is not a commodity to be purchased. If a society is going to justify having a speed limit, shouldn't it insure that everybody is equally deterred from speeding? Who says a crime is not a commodity to be purchased? Are we, or are we not against victimless crimes because they criminalize the purchasing of certain commodities? Now, you can't claim that speeding isn't a victimless crime either. Most traffic deaths occur below 20 mph. The German Autobahn with its unlimited speed sections has the same fatality rate as US interstate highways. The unlimited speed areas of our own system in the western states also see no greater fatality rates than limited speed areas with similar traffic density. The Finnish people have enough experience with the German Autobahn to know that speeding is nothing but a revinue generation device, meant to make people pay for the privilege of speeding, and making rich people pay more. Why should poor people enjoy the same privilege for a lower price? That is nothing but welfare state socialism. |
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rdeacon
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Once again, I'm not arguing from my opinion. I'm arguing from the POV of somebody who believes that we should have speed limits. The issue of whether or not a speed limit should exist is null and void, of course neither one of us sees the logic in having them. However, as they do exist, lets leave the morality of the speed limit itself out for a moment and just consider the logic behind a graduated penalty rate as opposed to an absolute penalty rate. If the speed limit example isn't a good one, we could try littering on public property. Same theory.
That said, I don't see how your post addresses the problem. Crime is not and should not be a commodity that one can "buy" once they have the wealth. Drugs/prostitution is not analogous because we're not talking about buying the banned substance, we're talking about buying the ability to commit the crime without being affected by the punishment, literally putting yourself above the law.
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atr
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However, as they do exist, lets leave the morality of the speed limit itself out for a moment and just consider the logic behind a graduated penalty rate as opposed to an absolute penalty rate.
Without getting into an argument about the proper purpose of the law, I think graduated punishments can be condemned because they require an enormous government intrusion into your privacy. Specifically, they depend on the government knowing your income and/or assets, neither of which should be the government's business. |
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rdeacon
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Agreed, we already have those institutions in place. However, as they do exist, lets leave the morality of the speed limit itself out for a moment and just consider the logic behind a graduated penalty rate as opposed to an absolute penalty rate.
Without getting into an argument about the proper purpose of the law, I think graduated punishments can be condemned because they require an enormous government intrusion into your privacy. Specifically, they depend on the government knowing your income and/or assets, neither of which should be the government's business. |
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RidleyReport
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<< graduated punishments can be condemned because they require an enormous government intrusion into your privacy. >>
Bingo. atr shoots atr scores.
Now how about we get back on topic:
Other shadow ad ideas?
BTW if you post news from yahoo I will often try to go by and do my own one-man shadow advertising on the yahoo forums discussing that piece of news. So even if it's not big enough to be selected as a Shadow Ad, don't hesitate to post it.
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rdeacon
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Dada, sorry to challenge this and keep the subject off-topic, but here's my take on it. Remember, I'm not talking about morality or ideology, I'm strictly talking about application in our current society. How would a graduated fine for speeding require any more intrusion than is currently in use?
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Daniel Patrick
FSP Participant
 Offline
Posts: 38
The mark of liberty on my back
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If I believed that Attention Deficit Disorder existed, and there was a pill to cure it (aderol, ritalin), I would encourage you all to take it to stay on task.  |
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If you are willing to move from your home to New Hampshire, surely you can talk at least one person every six months into doing the same.
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Mike Lorrey
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Dada, sorry to challenge this and keep the subject off-topic, but here's my take on it. Remember, I'm not talking about morality or ideology, I'm strictly talking about application in our current society. How would a graduated fine for speeding require any more intrusion than is currently in use?
Because it is against federal law for the IRS to share information about your federal taxes with other entities (Same with the SSA) not in the federal government. Now, if you are so into graduating things based on income, how about varying your property taxes based on income? How about varying your parking meter fees based on income? How about varying your restaurant tab based on income? Is this just going over your head? |
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Mike Lorrey
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If I believed that Attention Deficit Disorder existed, and there was a pill to cure it (aderol, ritalin), I would encourage you all to take it to stay on task. Can't be helped when even some people here think others should be punished for owning things or being successful. |
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Sebastian
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Can we come up with some kind of Shadow Ad that would grab the attention of Howard Stern?
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Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for yourself.
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adonis79
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HOW ABOUT A SHADOW AD TO BE PUT ON AIR IN HOWARDS MARKETS VIA RADIO?
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I have seen the freest among you wear their freedom as a yoke and a handcuff.
And my heart bled within me; for you can only be free when even the desire of freedom becomes a harness to you, and when you cease to speak of freedom as a goal and a fulfillment.
Kahlil Gibran
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adonis79
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MAYBE THE LIBERTY BABES OF FSP (PLEASE ANOUCE YOUR PRESENCE LIBERTY BABES) COULD LEND THEIR VOICES AND ATTRACT HOWARDS ATTENTION AS WELL AS HIS LISTNERS. I HAVE WRITTEN AN EMAIL TO THE SHOW FOR THE PAST SEVERAL DAYS AND THINK WE SHOULD MAKE IT AN ORGANIZED EFFORT TO ALL DO THE SAME....MABY WE COULD OFFER HOWARD THE KEYS TO THE FUTURE FSP UTOPIA I DONT KNOW BUT HOWARD IS A SHOCK JOCK AND SIMPLE DIPLOMACY ISNT ENOUGH HE LIKES PEOPLE TO SHOW UP AND GO OUT ON A LIMB FOR THEIR CAUSE. SEEMS LIKE STAGING SOME SORT OF "PROTEST" AND INVITING OTHER MEDIA TO WITNESS IT IN FRONT OF HOWARDS SHOW MAY SPEAK EVEN LOUDER....HMM THIS IS A GREAT CHANCE FOR EXPOSURE!!! WE SHOULD NOT PASS IT UP I HAVE $50 FOR WHATEVER METHOD WE CHOOSE. |
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I have seen the freest among you wear their freedom as a yoke and a handcuff.
And my heart bled within me; for you can only be free when even the desire of freedom becomes a harness to you, and when you cease to speak of freedom as a goal and a fulfillment.
Kahlil Gibran
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rdeacon
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Howard's actually not doing so well. He said in an interview that he'll probably end the show sometime in the next month, because of the FCC.
Wait a minute...
He's going off the air, because of the FCC.
New York is a costly advertising market, but perhaps an ad during Howard's final weeks or maybe in an NY newspaper (sent to Howard for publicity purposes) would get a lot of attention.
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rdeacon
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Now, if you are so into graduating things based on income, how about varying your property taxes based on income? How about varying your parking meter fees based on income? How about varying your restaurant tab based on income? Is this just going over your head?
Mike, I'm not condoning this practice, I'm making an innocent, morally-neutral strategic analysis based on certain societal goals. But just to show that this is not going over my head, lets qualify the argument that I am making using an if-then process. IF a society imposes speed limits to lower accident rates ( I'm not saying that speed limits actually do lower accident rate), and IF that society imposes fines to force compliance with their speeding laws ( I'm not making any moral claim about the acceptability of their approach), and IF that society believes that fines are designed to deter people from commission of the crime, and IF that society believes that all people should be equally compelled to follow the law, THEN a fine based on income would best serve the needs of this society. |
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« Last Edit: March 13, 2004, 04:04:05 pm by rdeacon »
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