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Topic: Abolition of INCOME TAX!!!!!! (Read 5021 times)
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arclight
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On the radio this morning (Neal Boortz show), I heard a very interesting interview. Neal was talking with congressman John Linder of GA about the attempt to get support for HB 25, or the initiative to abolish the 16th ammendment, and institute an national consumption, or sales tax. I personally love the idea, and believe the incredible surge in the nations economy would be so tremendous, we would have a worker shortage! Think about businesses not having to make decisions based on tax liability or status, but economic considerations. Would productivity and proactivity, not to mention competition be at unimaginable levels? I believe so. If you want to check out the research and development behind this idea, www.fairtax.org is your place. Call, write and harrass your congressman, your senator. Voinovich and Dewine are about to get sick of me! What do you all think??? |
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« Last Edit: August 06, 2003, 10:42:41 am by arclight »
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" The harder I work, the more luck I seem to have" Thomas Jefferson
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Karl
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... the initiative to abolish the 16th ammendment, and institute an national consumption, or sales tax...
How can we institute a national sales tax without the 16th amendment? |
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Stan
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It's probably a good start. My only fear is that a sales tax might discourage consumption. But then again, we have an income tax that penalizes achievement.
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We are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor to tolerate any error so long as reason is left free to combat it. -- Thomas Jefferson Check out FreeStateAds, a classified ads service for Porcupines! http://www.freestateads.com/ads |
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RhythmStar
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An income tax is just about the worst possible tax you can have, as it stunts capital formation and essentially discourages making money. I would strongly support the abolition of the income tax in favor of a VAT or sales tax. And I also agree that such a change would greatly spur job creation and investment in this country.
RS
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Irony is the innate perversity of circumstance. -- William House
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jhfenton
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It's probably a good start. My only fear is that a sales tax might discourage consumption. But then again, we have an income tax that penalizes achievement.
I suspect the anti-consumption effect would be offset by the fact that everybody's net income would increase by 15-50% by eliminating federal payroll and income taxes. |
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Karl
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An income tax is just about the worst possible tax you can have, as it stunts capital formation and essentially discourages making money. I would strongly support the abolition of the income tax in favor of a VAT or sales tax. And I also agree that such a change would greatly spur job creation and investment in this country.
I agree. Unfortunately, this bill will never be passed. Marxist and Keynesian economics dominate the Congressional and public psyches. |
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cathleeninsc
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My initial thoughts...
I don't mind discouraging consumption. I am a simple living proponent. I would like to see investment dollars flow more toward developing technologies than consumer products.
I think the rate of this consumption tax would quickly become prohibitive. Without sharply reducing the size of government, it could rise to more than 30%.
The IRC is currently used as a window into our financial and personal affairs. This ability will not be relinquished. With the "fair tax" there is the necessity of reporting on both sides of transactions. The purchaser must justify his "rebate" by reporting on family members and the seller would likely be asked to "support" his collections with financial data.
Anecdotally, I was speaking to a friend in Australia this week. To avoid taxation on home renovations, he contracted "under the table" for over 26,000 Australian dollars worth of work. Apparantly this was neither difficult to arrange nor unusual.
I guarantee that mechanisms to crack down on this will be extensive.
Cathleen in SC
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Karl
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I suspect the anti-consumption effect would be offset by the fact that everybody's net income would increase by 15-50% by eliminating federal payroll and income taxes.
Also, saving and investing would become tax-free activities.  |
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« Last Edit: August 06, 2003, 12:26:10 pm by Karl Beisel »
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Stan
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You've all made good points. It could be that my fear concerning a sales taxs effects are unfounded.
And I definately agree with Cathleen, any tax is going to grow into a multi-headed hydra until the government gets spending under control. THAT should be the first priority.
As proposed, would the sales tax cover just goods, or goods and services?
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We are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor to tolerate any error so long as reason is left free to combat it. -- Thomas Jefferson Check out FreeStateAds, a classified ads service for Porcupines! http://www.freestateads.com/ads |
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Karl
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As proposed, would the sales tax cover just goods, or goods and services?
It would tax both goods and services. You can read the rather large bill at: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:H.R.25:Actually, I'm surprised to see it so well fleshed out. |
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« Last Edit: August 06, 2003, 01:12:07 pm by Karl Beisel »
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Karl
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SUMMARY: Fair Tax Act of 2003 - Amends the Internal Revenue Code to repeal subtitle A (Income Taxes), B (Estate and Gift Taxes), and C (Employment Taxes) of the Internal Revenue Code. Imposes a tax on the use or consumption in the United States of taxable property or services. Sets the tax rate at 23 percent for the calendar year 2005. Sets the rate, for years after 2005, at the combined sum of the general revenue rate (14.91 percent), the old-age survivors and disability rate, and the hospital insurance rate. Sets forth provisions concerning, among other things; (1) imports and exports; (2) definitions; (3) credits and refunds; (4) a "family consumption allowance"; (5) Federal and State cooperative tax administration; (6) administrative matters; (7) collections, appeals, and taxpayer rights; (  special rules (hobbies, gaming, government purchases, non-profits, and etc.); (9) financial intermediation services; and (10) additional matters. Sets forth provisions concerning the: (1) phase-out of administration of repealed taxes; (2) administration of other taxes (establishes an Excise Tax Bureau and a Sales Tax Bureau); and (3) sales tax inclusive social security benefits indexation. |
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Stan
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Hmm. Wouldn't people living near the Canadian border have it good. Cross the border, get a 23% discount.
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We are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor to tolerate any error so long as reason is left free to combat it. -- Thomas Jefferson Check out FreeStateAds, a classified ads service for Porcupines! http://www.freestateads.com/ads |
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Karl
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Hmm. Wouldn't people living near the Canadian border have it good. Cross the border, get a 23% discount.
Technically, you're required to pay the tax on that: Sec. 103 (a) (1) IN GENERAL- In the case of taxable property or services purchased outside of the United States and imported into the United States for use or consumption in the United States, the purchaser shall remit the tax imposed by section 101. |
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Stan
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They can't make the Canadian merchant report it though, so, the 23% discount stands, unless they impose draconian measures at the border. "I see you have some purchases you failed to declare AND you're trying to bring Cuban cigars into the country...step out of the car please!  Actually, I don't want to appear negative. I LOVE the idea of getting rid of the income tax. I'm just trying to explore all implications of the sales tax. As a small business owner, I don't look forward to having to report sales on services. Are there provisions for businesses headquarterd offshore? |
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We are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor to tolerate any error so long as reason is left free to combat it. -- Thomas Jefferson Check out FreeStateAds, a classified ads service for Porcupines! http://www.freestateads.com/ads |
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Karl
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They can't make the Canadian merchant report it though, so, the 23% discount stands, unless they impose draconian measures at the border.
It is a possibility. Of course, the IRS does that to people all the time right now. Actually, I don't want to appear negative. I LOVE the idea of getting rid of the income tax. I'm just trying to explore all implications of the sales tax.
Read the stuff on fairtax.org. Its quite interesting. I'm definitely liking the idea more and more. As a small business owner, I don't look forward to having to report sales on services. Are there provisions for businesses headquarterd offshore?
You currently report income (you do, don't you?  ), so reporting gross receipts would not seem to be a greater burden. Actually, gross receipts would seem far simpler to deal with than income. |
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