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Topic: Re: Movers: Update Your Status (Read 2839 times)
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Sam Adams
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Dan here. Hello all, I,m still looking for a upper valley property. Saw a few with some acres, but mostly unuseable because of steep hills. Grafton area. Will be be persistant in my search. Lower states aren,t getting any better[of course not] with authorities policing the citizens as they are children. I can,t believe grown men have lost their spine, and at least won,t speak up for themselves. See u all soon. Dan
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Liberty Village Inc.
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Note to Dan, NH resident FSP members, and all others looking to move up to NH - RED ALERT: urgent participation required - 15 acres - Riverfront Property, access to Ashuelot River and The Ashuelot Rail-Trail, 1,165ft road frontage, zoned commercial/residential in SW New Hampshire, near NH/VT/MA borders, close to Keene, NH in the quaint historic town of Winchester, NH. I only need 20 member equal shareholders, or 10 people responsible for recruiting just one person to join you. An organic eco-friendly self sustainable cooperative village community opportunity - IT IS THE FUTURE. BECOME PART OF IT. You will cooperatively own a share of the company which will be purchasing the land... Land is cleared, flat, and ready for development, town offers favorable incentives to build within the community. 1.5 hrs from Hartford, CT and 2 hrs from Boston, MA, less than 20 minutes from Keene, NH, Greenfield, MA, and Brattleboro, VT......Excellent Business Potential. Spirited entrepreneur minded, liberty loving, free thinkers encouraged to apply. It gets no better for this great business opportunity. B&B, Inn, Tavern and Music Venue, Organic Restaurant and Farmers Markets, Camp Ground & Fishing Resort, Flea market, crafts & antique shops, etc. bait n tackle shop, organic greenhouse/nurseries, poultry & egg production, garden supplies, canoe/kayak/mountain bike, as well as cross country skiing and snowmobile rentals in winter months & shops, eventual owner townhouses/condos, etc.....possibilities endless......think outside the box, take action, and strive for results. ONLY $499/down payment - ONLY $99/monthly payment EACH.. to get started.........................SERIOUSLY ...JUST $500 BUCKS EACH MAKES YOU PART OWNER OF THIS LAND. Only courage, determination, and visionaries desired....INQUIRE WITHIN - THIS OPPORTUNITY WILL NOT LAST.- first come, first included, limited member acceptance. ANYONE THINKING OF COMING TO NH, OR ALREADY THERE.....THIS IS A NO LOSE, NO RISK, HIGH REWARD IDEA AND PROPOSAL.......... $500 bucks gets you started in owning our own land and running our own businesses. please contact: Douglas Weidl 860-899-4818 Douglasweidl@aol.comLiberty Village Inc. |
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Sam Adams
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Doug, Winchester has one of the highest taxes. Your idea sounds good, little agressive for the timing as the bottom is falling completely out of the economy. I think after the election SHTF . dollar devaluation, bond crash.
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Liberty Village Inc.
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Which why NOW is the BEST time to get this going...while whatever dollars you will actually buy something.....Don't know tax rates of Winchester, but i doubt highly they differ much from other areas....Taxes can be overcome with the shares of 20 people paying them, and regardless of your apocalyptic visions, getting 20 people together to build together, grow food together, and cooperatively grow businesses together is the greatest possible solution for any society....
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MaineShark
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Don't know tax rates of Winchester, but i doubt highly they differ much from other areas.... Winchester has a total property tax rate of $30.06/thousand, one of the five or ten highest in all of NH. So, if you have land worth $100k, you'll have to pay $3,006 per year on the land. If you add houses and improvements and the value goes up to $500k, that's $15k in taxes, per year. Of course, if you put 20 houses on that land, it's probably going to be valued at a couple million dollars, which means $60k in taxes, per year. Taxes can be overcome with the shares of 20 people paying them... They'll be divided up, but every house you add will add to the value, which will increase the taxes. In a place with taxes that high, it sounds like many folks will be paying more per year in taxes than in rent/lease/mortgage (or however you term it). ...and regardless of your apocalyptic visions, getting 20 people together to build together, grow food together, and cooperatively grow businesses together is the greatest possible solution for any society.... A tax rate that high indicates that the budget / valuation ratio is quite high. Having a budget that is out of pace with the value of the properties within the town tends to indicate a town with an over-reaching, intrusive government. So, the question you should be asking yourself before settling on a location and starting a project like that, would be whether it will even be possible. Is the town of Winchester going to sit back and let you build this, or will they force you to stop, leaving you holding a now-useless lot? Also, without a massive capital investment in mechanized farming using greenhouses and hydroponics, you cannot grow enough food for 20 families on 15 acres. If I were going to try and feed 20 families, I'd either want at least ten times that amount of land, or I'd want a couple million dollars (minimum) worth of equipment. Don't mean to be a wet blanket, but buying land is the easiest part of this sort of project, and I expect that those who are seriously interested will realize that, and want to know about these other details. |
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« Last Edit: September 08, 2012, 10:25:10 am by MaineShark »
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"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.
We are not civilized because we are armed; we are armed because we are civilized..
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John Edward Mercier
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Not to mention that the Ashuelot Rail Trail was purchased with federal dollars.
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Sam Adams
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Not to mention that the Ashuelot Rail Trail was purchased with federal dollars.
What are the regulations attachments or rules with these Rail Trails? Who can use them, and with what type of vehicles, atv, snowmobiles, are they patrolled? thanks |
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John Edward Mercier
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Non-motorized and motorized with a waiver. Snowmobiles have a waiver.
I don't think specifically 'patrolled'; but the local PD and F&G probably pop in and out, and handle any complaints.
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Jack Nelson
FSP Participant
 Offline
Posts: 39
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This man has an awesome idea (potentially) that deserves serious consideration. Those of us who aren't real estate attorneys, or experienced in securities law (any time you buy a "share" in a business operation, you are buying a "security"), ought not to comment on legalities beyond what we know, and can CITE SOURCES. I am hoping that the person who posted the property tax rate, WITH ALL THAT SPECULATION ON TOP OF IT, will please cite the source from whence he/she got the tax rate, so that we can independently verify it. No one makes a move to buy into a business or a piece of real estate without doing "due diligence." It's just painful to watch people comment speculatively as to "why it won't work," "why it's a bad deal," arguing with the man with the idea, publicly. Those types of comments are BEST LEFT FOR PRIVATE E-MAIL EXCHANGE with the author of the proposal. He DID put his e-mail address AND PHONE NUMBER in the post!! And it appears to be a Connecticut phone number, so perhaps he is onto something and gets up here to New Hampshire often. Any time someone has something good, or potentially good (AND ISN'T THAT WHAT THE FSP IS ABOUT), human nature guarantees there will always be nay-sayers galore. But those of us who are true Free Staters, can't we pull the reins in on our natural impulse to decry a good thing, and ask good questions instead? What could be put together in Winchester, New Hampshire, could potentially be duplicated in Grafton, New Hampshire. It just takes locating an open-minded seller. Or Croydon. Or Raymond. Or Madbury. A la McDonald's Restaurant. Does anyone get my meaning? Sincerely, Jack Nelson (267) 334-0558 radiomessenger1@gmail.com Raymond, New Hampshire resident since 08-09-2012 (newly relocated from Pennsylvania). |
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Jack Nelson
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MaineShark
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I am hoping that the person who posted the property tax rate, WITH ALL THAT SPECULATION ON TOP OF IT, will please cite the source from whence he/she got the tax rate, so that we can independently verify it. The tax rates are public information. They're posted numerous places on the web, on the DRA's site, or you can just call the town. No one makes a move to buy into a business or a piece of real estate without doing "due diligence." What are you talking about? Many folks do just that. Hence the housing bubble and crash. Folks do it all the time. Since he flat-out admitted that he does not know the tax rate in Winchester, but had already settled on a piece of property for his plan, it's rather obvious that he has not done due diligence. It's just painful to watch people comment speculatively as to "why it won't work," "why it's a bad deal," arguing with the man with the idea, publicly. Those types of comments are BEST LEFT FOR PRIVATE E-MAIL EXCHANGE with the author of the proposal. He DID put his e-mail address AND PHONE NUMBER in the post!! And it appears to be a Connecticut phone number, so perhaps he is onto something and gets up here to New Hampshire often.
Any time someone has something good, or potentially good (AND ISN'T THAT WHAT THE FSP IS ABOUT), human nature guarantees there will always be nay-sayers galore. Or, you know, maybe folks who actually have done the research, who have actually seen these sort of plans fail several times over (in some cases bankrupting the investors), might want to share the knowledge we've earned through years of experience, so those who actually want to do such things might get some benefit and avoid the pitfalls. Typically speaking the only way a project like this can work is if you get the co-owners together, hammer out what the project's goals are, take the time to make sure you can all work together, and then look for a piece of property which matches the intended uses of the project. And even then, it's likely that something will come up and cause the project to fail. If you start with "I found a piece of property that I think is cool," you're doomed to failure. This isn't idle speculation; the history of intentional communities is strewn with the wreckage of the failures. And the proposal described, here, contains most of the major mistakes that are possible. Those who are presenting this plan deserve to know of the avenues for failure, so they can design to avoid them, and those considering joining deserve a warning that is as public as the proposal, in case those issues are not fixed. Even under the best of circumstances, such plans are extraordinarily difficult to bring to successful operation. If you are selecting property before even determining what the use of that property will be, then you're almost certain to fail. |
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"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.
We are not civilized because we are armed; we are armed because we are civilized..
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John Edward Mercier
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I get your meaning Mr. Nelson; but what I think Maineshark is doing is trying to help the project avoid the pitfalls.
He's not stating that the project is terrible, or should not be given some consideration.
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Jack Nelson
FSP Participant
Offline
Posts: 39
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With unrelated people going into business together that involves the purchase of real estate, what do we define as failure?
If the sale is consummated, is it failure?
Are we to cry "foul" if the land proves unsuitable for growing Christmas trees, or farming alpacas for the wool, but proves great for a self-storage business? Every time I turn around, storage units cost more, there are more and more places offering them, and I still get lots of "we don't have any vacancies for that size."
What's a pitfall?
Someone hands someone $ 500.00 and ensures that it goes into a properly-managed escrow account, and the contemplated sale doesn't pan out, but we still have the cash and have to look for another property, is that a "pitfall?"
A property that is "zoned commercial," means different things in different municipalities, but in general, it means, you may also build a home or homes on it should you choose to.
By knowing that the man with the idea failed to ascertain the annual millage tax rate and compare it with other municipalities', can we really be justified in accusing him of not doing due diligence? Looking up the deed to make sure the offerer is who he/she says he/she is, finding out about the town selectmen's attitude toward the proposed business(es), AND HOW TO BECOME ONE, etc., these also are included in due diligence, and we ought to give him the benefit of the doubt, for the time being, that he has done some homework on it. But save that for when you are genuinely interested in pursuing it, and ask him.
Sure, "put 20 homes on it worth $ 100,000," and yeah; the property will be valuated at 2 million-plus.
It would take 20 people a few years to do that.
And a few paychecks saved up.
And by that time, with the businesses thriving, who is going to be worried about an aggregate $ 60,000 per year in taxes on the property? The acorn isn't afraid to grow into a big, tall oak tree; it just grows, one day at a time. What seemed a huge obstacle when you were little, is nothing when you get bigger ( as in, a successful business).
Generating electricity with solar energy panels.
Chimney and stove shop.
Self-storage.
Shipping and warehousing.
A school for entrepreneurship.
Farming and greenhouse growing for florists.
The possibilities with a 15-acre piece of land are almost endless, assuming that we continue to have some freedom in the market.
And in response to your imagined scenario where 20 people end up with a worthless piece of land because the town says "no," there is a legal presumption, ALIVE AND WELL IN NEW HAMPSHIRE, that you can do with YOUR property what you want, as long as you don't encroach on the rights of others. The town can't arbitrarily say you can't build, simply because they don't like you or don't feel like having a co-op business. You DIALOGUE with municipal permitting officers. They're supposed to be real people, too. Subject to laws that limit their self-interests.
The idea is to get together a synergistic partnership.
It's a great idea. The challenge is in BEING good enough to qualify to succeed.
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Jack Nelson
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John Edward Mercier
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Generally its a failure if a partner were to buy in with an expectation of something that is not even conceivable to be met.
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Jack Nelson
FSP Participant
Offline
Posts: 39
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For a success story, we need only contact the four owners of a certain farm in west-central New Hampshire, whose names and phone number I have, and whom I have visited on two occasions in the past month.
Fear of failure works both ways. We act out our fears, and we tend to bring to pass that which we fear. Conversely, our faith, which projects itself into our words and actions, tends to attract and bring to pass success.
We model what we want to bring to pass, after successful businesses.
It took McDonald's to pioneer the concept of modern franchising, and four decades later, everything from auto repair to clothing stores to employment agencies is franchised after the same model.
Ten people going in together to purchase land as a co-operative business arrangement -- unlikely to succeed? Maybe it'll end up being two families (four adults) like the above-cited example.
Success tends to shake out those unworthy of it, since the bumps in the road of life are PART OF life and inseparable from a realistic assessment of it.
WE KNOW ALREADY that the "traditional" model of buying real estate is LIKEWISE STREWN WITH FAILURE -- "just sign here, Ma'am; yup, $ 300,000. is what you qualify for with nothing down (three months later, can't meet a mortgage payment that mysteriously escalates to $ 3,200. per month; default, foreclosure, heartbreak." - reference the film INSIDE JOB, by Charles Ferguson, analysis of the crash of the 2000 - 2007 housing bubble, by Sony Pictures Media, wherein a homeowner who speaks only Spanish, is interviewed via a translator, describing how she and her husband were swindled)."
The Fed, in the hands of Bernanke and cohorts, continues to artificially stimulate the demand for homes and home mortgages, and the value of properties, via money printing.
But trust between partners in a business here in the Free State; it's harder for the bankers to disrupt that.
So why not think outside the box and adapt to the times?
Sincerely,
Jack Nelson
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Jack Nelson
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John Edward Mercier
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You gave an example with a single owner of the problem; so you must understand the complexity of multiple owners with different expectations.
Because Bernanke is touching the system; not a specific project.
Its not the bank, FED, or even Federal government (outside the usage of the trail and any floodplain designation) that is going to be the impact on the project. Its the little indecisions.
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