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Author Topic: Free State: Not So Free! (forced inspections inside your home)  (Read 5728 times)
daveneu
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Free State: Not So Free! (forced inspections inside your home)
« on: July 06, 2012, 06:36:29 am »

To those interested in moving to NH but not yet here, you might want to rethink your "get out of Dodge" strategy.

Be prepared and happy to submit to the local government going through your home and having no legal recourse when town "assessors" stop by to make a "happy howdy."

Here's something that I just learned - Only two states have no legal recourse when the town decides that it's time to inspect your home - and I am talking inside your home (I'm talking forced town assessment inspections). Those two states are New Hampshire and Wisconcin. I'm stuck in the area, but not for long. Anyway, don't believe me if you choose, but here's the link...

http://www.ij.org/new-hampshire-home-inspections-background

So - "Free State: Not So Free"

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Dave N.
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Re: Free State: Not So Free! (forced inspections inside your home)
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2012, 06:49:52 am »

Out of date.
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Re: Free State: Not So Free! (forced inspections inside your home)
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2012, 06:58:10 am »

So - what's the new news...doesn't exist anymore? The assessments packed up and flew away? "Out of date" doesn't mean anything. Give us complete details...What you have typed is just a cryptic message.

You can Start Page "Fourth Amendment Rights Regarding Home Inspections" - and look at the article which btw, regurgitates my original post. This article is dated 2011. No new news? Indeed. The continuing news is not good. The towns do not want anyone to know - they are so proud of this. Again - just warning those who haven't packed their bags as of yet - you may want to get more info on town assessments.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2012, 07:12:12 am by daveneu » Logged

Dave N.
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Re: Free State: Not So Free! (forced inspections inside your home)
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2012, 07:25:00 am »

This was discussed back in '07 but as yet to be resolved. It was "dead-ended." Those who aren't here yet...is this your idea of "Free State?"

This is crazy, and is happening in NH...

http://www.hb-rights.org/1local/inspect


Fourth Amendment Rights Regarding Home Inspections

A NH state law (RSA) is being used to intimidate homeowners into allowing interior inspections of their homes by tax assessors, even though the right to refuse a warrantless search without penalty is guaranteed by the Fourth Amendment.
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Dave N.
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Re: Free State: Not So Free! (forced inspections inside your home)
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2012, 08:42:25 am »

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2011/HB0316.html

Submitted by Rep Manuse.  Co-sponsored by many other pro-liberty legislators.

Passed on voice votes in the house and senate.  Signed by the governor, effective since July 24, 2011.

Quote
206:1 Inventory Form; Appeal Rights. Amend RSA 74:7-a to read as follows:

74:7-a Penalty for Failure to File.

I. Any person who fails to file a fully completed inventory form on or before April 15, unless granted an extension under RSA 74:8, shall pay a penalty of one percent of the property tax for which the person is liable. In no case, however, shall the penalty be less than $10 or more than $50. [Any person who fails to file an inventory form and who becomes liable to pay the penalty specified in this section shall lose the right to appeal the denial of an abatement of an appraisal under RSA 75:1, but shall not] No person who fails to file an inventory form shall lose the right to apply for, or appeal the denial of, any other type of tax relief including an appeal under RSA 72:34-a, an appraisal under RSA 75:11, or a land use change tax under RSA 79-A:7. This penalty has all the force of taxation and shall be treated as incident to the tax.

II. If a town fails to deliver the inventory blank, the penalty [of loss of appeal rights] shall not apply.

III. If the property is transferred during the tax year to a different owner and the inventory blank was mailed or delivered to the previous owner, the penalty [of loss of appeal rights] shall not apply to the subsequent owner.

206:2 Elimination of Inventory Blanks. Amend RSA 74:4-a, I to read as follows:

 I. Any municipality, by vote of its board of selectmen, city council or board of aldermen may elect not to utilize the inventory form or procedure. Such a vote shall automatically exempt all property owners and others within that municipality from all requirements and provisions of law relating to the inventory form[, including the requirement of filing an inventory in a complete and timely manner in order to retain all appeal rights on property tax or other exemptions and considerations to which they may legally be entitled].

206:3 Repeal. RSA 74:17, II, relative to the loss of right to appeal tax for refusing to grant inspection of property, is repealed.
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daveneu
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Re: Free State: Not So Free! (forced inspections inside your home)
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2012, 09:00:02 am »

Home inspections are nationwide, and historically an outrage even for the colonists:

Quote from: Hollis Brookline, NH Rights (HB-Rights.org)
Open a US history book, and chances are you'll find some directly relevant history regarding the search of private homes for tax purposes. Before the American Revolution, King George issued Writs of Assistance that allowed his tax collectors to search the ships, warehouses and homes of the colonists, looking for contraband. This so terrorized and infuriated the colonists that, when the Bill of Rights was later added to the US Constitution, two amendments (the 4th and 5th) were specifically created to restrict the power of the new government to perform these acts.

Where is the outrage in Massachusetts, in New York, in Florida?

The FSP does not claim NH is unambiguously, perfectly, happily free. That's outlandish. That's the whole point of the "Project"! (It's a work in progress).

First off, it is not throughout the entire US - and btw, MA doesn't claim to be the most free state in the nation - it's 45'th from the bottom, with NY being 50th - going by the Mercatus report- you know - by the very ones who do the free state up so nicely with the pretty talk (no talk about forced home inspections on the "welcome" page.) When was the last time anyone walked about your home? Anyway - to more important matters -  Looking at the map (unless it's outdated), shows that it's not going on in Idaho or Texas and others. Another BTW - I have owned a home in MA for 20+ years - nobody has ever come in to inspect the house unless we called for an energy inspection to see if we could save some $ - but that was our call and it was a private company. In the "free state" I didn't think I would need to now make plans to sell my house to move to another "free state."

Here's where it gets better - NH and WI - THE TWO WORST STATES IN THE NATION (according to the article - that's supposedly outdated and so I eagerly await an update that shows that NH is one of the lowest ranking "states" that allows this intrusion).

Home invasion is one of the worst ways that you can be mentally raped. I'd take a sales tax before a home invasion by a government lackey. But, that's me - and probably not you. To me, forced home invasions places NH somewhere in 40th thru 44th place in the free states.
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Re: Free State: Not So Free! (forced inspections inside your home)
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2012, 09:29:21 am »

Home invasion is one of the worst ways that you can be mentally raped. I'd take a sales tax before a home invasion by a government lackey. But, that's me - and probably not you. To me, forced home invasions places NH somewhere in 40th thru 44th place in the free states.

Woah, man, I am not sure what the issue is.  Previously, NH didn't have forced home invasion by inspectors.  Previously, if you refused to allow the inspector into your home, you couldn't appeal a property tax bill based on an absurdly high assessment.  Now you can.  Problem solved. I am sorry that you found an article with wrong info but it happens all of the time. 

Heck, I remember seeing a map showing the states fighting ObamaCare on it.  NH wasn't highlighted.  Funny thing is, NH has done more than any other state to stop ObamaCare.  Sometimes stuff on the internet is wrong.  It happens.  Here is what NH has done to stop ObamaCare. http://nhfreedom.wordpress.com/2012/07/02/what-new-hampshire-did-to-stop-obamacare/
« Last Edit: July 06, 2012, 09:32:13 am by LoveAndPeace » Logged

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Re: Free State: Not So Free! (forced inspections inside your home)
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2012, 09:37:31 am »

Well thank you for that - where can I find this in writing? Any ideas. I didn't just post this willy nilly. I had looked to see anything counter to what I posted. So, I posted an actual article - now, I'd like to see a document that states that i do not have to let an assessor in for a forced home invasion.

Anyone?

Oh - and btw (just a general statement - not addressed to anyone in particular), I'm carrying the lantern and screaming "intruder alert" OR "possible intruder alert." Don't make me out to be the bad guy. The ones who are keeping silent and hiding behind their "whatevers"- those are the ones to address with disdain.
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Re: Free State: Not So Free! (forced inspections inside your home)
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2012, 09:47:38 am »

The bill was already posted here.  Here is the full docket for the bill if you are interested. http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/bill_Status/Bill_docket.aspx?lsr=797&sy=2011&sortoption=&txtsessionyear=2011&txtbillnumber=HB316
Quote
Date    Body    Description
1/21/2011   H   Introduced 1/6/2011 and Referred to Municipal and County Government; HJ 11, PG. 182
1/26/2011   H   Public Hearing: 2/3/2011 11:30 AM LOB 301
2/23/2011   H   Executive Session: 2/24/2011 1:00 PM LOB 301
3/2/2011   H   Committee Report: Ought to Pass with Amendment #0533h(NT) for Mar 15 (Vote 14-1; RC); HC 22, PG.561
3/2/2011   H   Proposed Committee Amendment #2011-0533h (New Title); HC 23, PG.599-600
3/16/2011   H   Amendment #0533h (New Title) Adopted, VV; HJ 28, PG.909-910
3/16/2011   H   Ought to Pass with Amendment #0533h(NT): MA VV; HJ 28, PG.909-910
3/23/2011   S   Introduced and Referred to Public and Municipal Affairs; SJ 11, Pg.191
4/7/2011   S   Hearing: 4/12/11, Room 101, LOB, 10:30 a.m.; SC19
4/14/2011   S   Hearing: === RECESSED === 4/12/11, Room 101, LOB, 10:30 a.m.; SC20
4/14/2011   S   Hearing: === RECONVENE === 4/19/11, Room 101, LOB, 10:45 a.m.; SC20
5/11/2011   S   Committee Report: Ought to Pass with Amendment #2011-1855s, NT, 5/18/11; SC24
5/18/2011   S   Chair Ruled Non-Germane Amendment
5/18/2011   S   Sen. Forsythe Moved to Suspend Rule 3-7 to Allow Non-Germane Amendment 1855s, 2/3 necessary, MA, VV; SJ 17, Pg.354
5/18/2011   S   Committee Amendment 1855s, NT, AA, VV; SJ 17, Pg.354
5/18/2011   S   Ought to Pass with Amendment 1855s, NT, MA, VV; OT3rdg; SJ 17, Pg.354
5/18/2011   S   Passed by Third Reading Resolution; SJ 17, Pg.357
5/25/2011   H   House Concurs with Senate AM #1855s(NT) (Rep Ferrante): MA VV; HJ 46, PG.1582
6/8/2011   S   Enrolled
6/8/2011   H   Enrolled; HJ 51, PG.1724
6/27/2011   H   Signed By Governor 06/24/2011; Effective 07/24/2011; Chapter 0206

Here is a blog post about it by the author, http://amanuse.rlcnh.org/2011/06/08/rep-manuse-sen-forsythe-pass-bill-to-guarantee-property-owners-rights/

Quote
Rep. Manuse, Sen. Forsythe pass bill to guarantee property owners’ rights

DERRY, N.H. & STRAFFORD, N.H.—Rep. Andrew J. Manuse of Derry and Sen. Jim Forsythe of Strafford are pleased to announce that their combined initiatives to guarantee property rights in New Hampshire have become law and will take effect this July.

The bill, HB 316, sponsored by Rep. Manuse, guarantees a property owner’s right to appeal a property assessment, even when the owner does not allow an assessment official in his or her home. Previously, property owners who had exercised their Fourth Amendment protection from searches without a warrant were subsequently denied their constitutional right to appeal an unfair assessment. This new law restores the constitutional right to appeal an assessment while continuing to protect the constitutional right to be secure in the home from unreasonable searches.

“This is a significant victory for the citizens of New Hampshire, because their constitutional right to due process has been reinstated under the law,” said Rep. Andrew J. Manuse, R-Derry. “Because of this change, property owners won’t have to choose between one of two guaranteed constitutional rights, and New Hampshire government agents won’t be able to use the threat of taxation to impose themselves in the private lives of citizens. I’m grateful to all the folks who helped with this effort to protect the rights of New Hampshire citizens.”
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Re: Free State: Not So Free! (forced inspections inside your home)
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2012, 09:54:09 am »

Hey - thanks for that. I wasn't finding any of that info. Much appreciated.

I am happy to stand corrected.

If necessary, I do apologize if I came on too strongly with regard to this issue that was settled last year. Thing of it is, I didn't know, AND I had been researching the topic for two hours earlier this morning, but getting nowhere. I figure it was for one of two reasons: either I wasn't hitting the search engine's "sweet spot" with the correct word string, or because the information was being shrouded.

The only piece of news I that I seemed to get "railroaded to" was the article that I originally posted - each and every time.

Just thought you should know.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2012, 12:23:21 pm by daveneu » Logged

Dave N.
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Re: Free State: Not So Free! (forced inspections inside your home)
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2012, 01:25:39 pm »

The inspection and property rights laws are the only reason I am looking into other "more free" states to move to. I think a state that small can have pros and cons especially with laws. I think for some the inspections are not an issue. I am a marijuana grower SO yeah that won't ever be allowed and was planning on buying other houses, rig them for growing safely and allow other mmj patients rent from me. I see me losing all my property and odds are locked up real fast in New Hampshire versus here in California.

It blows my mind to think that Cali is actually more free than the live free or die state. Sure you can carry guns but getting concealed weapons permits here in Cali is actually pretty easy it just takes a couple months to actually go through. I think it just depends on what you consider "free" and what you are willing to put up with.

Once the 20k move out there however EVERYTHING will change.

I can't wait to be completely removed from the federal government!
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Re: Free State: Not So Free! (forced inspections inside your home)
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2012, 03:12:48 pm »

The inspection and property rights laws are the only reason I am looking into other "more free" states to move to. I think a state that small can have pros and cons especially with laws. I think for some the inspections are not an issue.

I don't think you'll run into any inspection issues, unless you choose some particular town that is annoying like that.  NH is like the US in micro - individual towns can have dramatically-different ways of doing things, just like NH has dramatically-different laws than CA.  Do some research and choose a town that doesn't hassle folks.  For example, I live in Grafton, where there are no building permits, no inspectors, only two cops (who are certainly cops, but closer to Andy Griffith than the current crop tends to be), etc.  If you were to choose a town like Barnstead, for one example, they would want to micro-manage every last thing you try to do, and expect you to be grateful to them for being gracious enough to tell you what to do with your own property.

It blows my mind to think that Cali is actually more free than the live free or die state.

It isn't, in general.  There are a couple small areas where it has better laws, but the overwhelming majority of laws in CA are far, fare worse than in NH.

And, remember, the idea here isn't to move to someplace that is already free... the idea is to move to someplace that can be made free.  NH has the most-accessible government of any US state.  Major changes can be made here, very quickly, because things are set up to allow ordinary individuals to participate and change things (eg, we have one of the largest legislatures in the world, so the ratio of residents to legislators is very low, and they are only paid $100/year, so they have to campaign by actually meeting their constituents, rather than buying millions of dollars in TV ads).

Sure you can carry guns but getting concealed weapons permits here in Cali is actually pretty easy it just takes a couple months to actually go through.

Let's see... according to the NRA fact sheet:

All sales in CA must go through a dealer and be registered with the state, with a mandatory waiting period.
A CA-approved safety course is required for anyone wanting to purchase a handgun (and must be repeated every five years).
You can only purchase certain "approved" firearms.
"Assault weapons" are banned.
Open carry is banned.
Concealed carry is banned without a license (so, between the two, you cannot carry at all without permission from the government).
Carry is banned in all manner of buildings, including the legislature (so you cannot even go there to complain about the gun laws, without giving up your freedom).
You can only get a license if they choose to issue one, at their discretion.

And those are just the highlights.

In NH, you pay $10, fill out a form with your name, address, and such (no fingerprints, photographs, or training requirements), and you get the license within 14 calendar days, or you can sue them (and the individual who wrongfully denied it is personally responsible for court costs).  License information is stored with the individual police department that issued it, and may not be released even to other police departments without cause (so any statewide registry of licenseholders would be illegal, and cops certainly don't know it if they run your driver's license or such).

And if you don't want to, you can always carry openly.

No places other than courthouses are off-limits.

Yeah, no, there's not any comparison between the two.
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Re: Free State: Not So Free! (forced inspections inside your home)
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2012, 03:48:08 pm »

Plus, while NH continues to pass laws reducing firearm regulations year after year.  CA recently passed 3 bills increasing firearms regulations.

California Governor Signs Bills Mandating Long-Gun Registration and Banning Open Carry [of unloaded firearms]
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2011/10/california-governor-signs-bills-mandating-long-gun-registration-and-banning-open-carry/
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Re: Free State: Not So Free! (forced inspections inside your home)
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2012, 09:07:31 pm »

Indeed but at least in Cali we don't have mandatory inspections ( yet ) but I do agree it is getting worse in all states but like I said, certain states for certain folk. I can still get a concealed weapons permit here in Cali and do not see how open carrying makes any sense at all except to assert power or to at least LOOK powerful just as the oinks tend to do. I would like to be able to choose when people know I have a weapon. Once you are known in town to open carry you will soon be known as "that open carry guy" and not too smart in my book. Especially since all we were able to do here was open carry UNLOADED, wtf is the point of that? LOL... If I can conceal carry in a state then I can at least protect myself and others in public and that is pretty free in my book even when it takes someone "allowing" it.

Some dig it though but concealed is where its at, at least for me. Buying guns here can be irritating but some laws are getting better and others are not, I have always had to wait and pick up my guns 2 weeks later but that doesn't bother me as much as city/state coming into my house or rental properties. Like I said, it is apples and oranges but dependent on what laws are important to you.

Our taxes for instance are terrible here but if you choose not to pay taxes then it really doesn't affect you.
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Re: Free State: Not So Free! (forced inspections inside your home)
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2012, 09:23:38 pm »

If hiding your grow room from the apartment inspectors is the most important thing to you, just don't rent an apartment in a town that does inspections.  Most towns in NH don't.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2012, 09:28:08 pm by Jerry » Logged
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