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Topic: Another NH man accused of harmless weapon discharge - faces decades in prison (Read 13926 times)
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maxxoccupancy
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Folks, please contact your State Legislators about State v. Albert Abramson. The right to self-defense is won one court case at a time, and this was one of the worst abuses of the "reckless conduct" statute ever. Gun rights groups have been warning against the misuse of this law for years, and this case brings the matter front and center.
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We're in need of volunteers to help out with Freedom Expo. PM one of the organizers (like me) if you'd like to help.
"The Free State Project is an agreement among 20,000 pro-liberty activists to move to New Hampshire, where they will exert the fullest practical effort toward the creation of a society in which the maximum role of government is the protection of life, liberty, and property." Freedom Expo is at Trinity Parish House, Seabrook, April 27, 2013! (right next to the Post Office)
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RidleyReport
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I'd like to see concrete evidence that Max did not in fact save people that night (preferably see it without sitting through 20 hours of court)!
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maxxoccupancy
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In practice, "reckless conduct" is usually prosecuted as a victimless crime, and one that we ought to be holding out as an example of one that must be removed from the law books. I've explained to fiscal conservatives the financial cost to the State of incarcerating the innocent. At a minimum, we should be reducing all victimless crimes to fines. No victime, no time.
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Logged
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We're in need of volunteers to help out with Freedom Expo. PM one of the organizers (like me) if you'd like to help.
"The Free State Project is an agreement among 20,000 pro-liberty activists to move to New Hampshire, where they will exert the fullest practical effort toward the creation of a society in which the maximum role of government is the protection of life, liberty, and property." Freedom Expo is at Trinity Parish House, Seabrook, April 27, 2013! (right next to the Post Office)
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maxxoccupancy
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I'd like to see concrete evidence that Max did not in fact save people that night (preferably see it without sitting through 20 hours of court)!
Actually, I've been listening to the trial on CD, and there was never any evidence offered that I'd fired recklessly, at anyone, nor endangered anyone. Just the opposite, the evidence shows that I carefully fired a round into the backyard when no one was there, that there was an out of control fight, and that people had been repeatedly told to leave. I've never seen a case where all of the evidence--including State's evidence--favored the defense. How the jury arrived at even one guilty verdict is beyond me, but it's fodder for appeal. |
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We're in need of volunteers to help out with Freedom Expo. PM one of the organizers (like me) if you'd like to help.
"The Free State Project is an agreement among 20,000 pro-liberty activists to move to New Hampshire, where they will exert the fullest practical effort toward the creation of a society in which the maximum role of government is the protection of life, liberty, and property." Freedom Expo is at Trinity Parish House, Seabrook, April 27, 2013! (right next to the Post Office)
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MaineShark
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Actually, I've been listening to the trial on CD, and there was never any evidence offered that I'd fired recklessly, at anyone, nor endangered anyone. Just the opposite, the evidence shows that I carefully fired a round into the backyard when no one was there... The ground is not a safe direction in which to fire. There are these things called "rocks" (particularly in the "Granite State"), and when bullets hit them, they ricochet in unpredictable directions. |
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"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.
We are not civilized because we are armed; we are armed because we are civilized..
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RidleyReport
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>>The ground is not a safe direction in which to fire. There are these things called "rocks" (particularly in the "Granite State"), and when bullets hit them, they ricochet in unpredictable directions.>>
that's why a reasonable person would only fire there if it were necessary to defeat an even bigger danger. What's your evidence that Max was not preventing a bigger danger?
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maxxoccupancy
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I fired into an area of soft dirt that I could plainly see. If the bullet were going to somehow come back, it could only come back directly at me. How could it miss me and then zing around the room and hit someone else? I can't believe that we have people calling themselves pro liberty who talk like anti-gun prosecutors.
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Logged
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We're in need of volunteers to help out with Freedom Expo. PM one of the organizers (like me) if you'd like to help.
"The Free State Project is an agreement among 20,000 pro-liberty activists to move to New Hampshire, where they will exert the fullest practical effort toward the creation of a society in which the maximum role of government is the protection of life, liberty, and property." Freedom Expo is at Trinity Parish House, Seabrook, April 27, 2013! (right next to the Post Office)
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MaineShark
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that's why a reasonable person would only fire there if it were necessary to defeat an even bigger danger. What's your evidence that Max was not preventing a bigger danger? What's his evidence that he was? He did something which could have killed someone; where's the evidence that he was doing so to stop something worse than death from happening to someone? Or multiple deaths? Not that it really matters; there's no justification for putting innocent bystanders in harm's way, regardless of what danger you're attempting to prevent. "Collateral damage" is the sort of nonsense that governments use to excuse their atrocities during wars, and the sort of thing that cops claim when they shoot someone's kid during a botched raid; it's not something that any liberty-lover would claim is acceptable. If someone is actually attempting to commit murder or certain other major forms of harm against another, you are justified in shooting him. You are not justified in harming (or threatening to harm) innocent bystanders. |
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Logged
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"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.
We are not civilized because we are armed; we are armed because we are civilized..
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MaineShark
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I fired into an area of soft dirt that I could plainly see. If the bullet were going to somehow come back, it could only come back directly at me. How could it miss me and then zing around the room and hit someone else? Really? You were wholly enveloping the area all around the bullet, so it could only hit you? I can't believe that we have people calling themselves pro liberty who talk like anti-gun prosecutors. You don't. You have pro-liberty people saying that it's ridiculous to give anti-gun prosecutors a legitimate excuse to go after a gun owner. Congrats; thanks to your choices, any anti-liberty individual out there can now claim that a Freestater was convicted of a felony gun crime involving reckless endangerment of others. They couldn't say that, before, but now they can. You gave the anti-liberty movement a good bit of ammunition in your desire to play at being a cop. Your behavior was as reckless as a cop's, so I guess you succeeded, regardless of your failure to actually get a job as one. |
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"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.
We are not civilized because we are armed; we are armed because we are civilized..
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1DayAtATime
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I fired into an area of soft dirt that I could plainly see. If the bullet were going to somehow come back, it could only come back directly at me. How could it miss me and then zing around the room and hit someone else? I can't believe that we have people calling themselves pro liberty who talk like anti-gun prosecutors.
It reminds me of the gun owners (perhaps the majority?) against open carry. Everyone isn't lockstep. My guess is you know your yard well enough to know about rocks. I think the charges against you are wrong, but the same charges could have been brought against you in most states as far as I know. Warning shots just don't seem like a good idea, legally. I don't see things changing on the legislative front, anywhere in the world, on this issue anytime soon  |
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MaineShark
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It reminds me of the gun owners (perhaps the majority?) against open carry. Everyone isn't lockstep. Try again. There is not any individual in NH who is more pro gun than I am. "Pro gun" is not "pro endangering others." Wouldn't matter if he behaved recklessly with a knife, or a car, or a chainsaw; the fact is that recklessly endangering others is a violation of their rights, and any liberty lover will oppose it. My guess is you know your yard well enough to know about rocks. And that would be just the sort of cocky idea that would get an innocent individual killed. Sort of like, "I know it's unloaded," uttered by someone who is pointing a gun towards others. Most negligent discharges involve "unloaded" guns. When you start making assumptions like that, even in a low-stress situation, bad things happen. When you do it in a high-stress situation, when the stress hormones in your blood are already interfering with your clarity, it's a thousand times more dangerous. That's the sort of nonsense that cops pull. It's not how responsible gun owners behave. We are better than that. Gun owners who go our of their way to emulate the worst, most reckless users of guns, are doing a disservice to all gun owners. Warning shots just don't seem like a good idea, legally. Warning shots are not a good idea, period. If you discharge your weapon, it should either be because you are practicing, or because you are actually shooting someone. If you have to shoot someone in order to stop an attack, do so. If you can stop the attack without shooting him, then you are not justified in discharging your weapon. End of story. You will find that all professional firearms instructors are going to pretty much be unanimous on that count. |
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Logged
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"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.
We are not civilized because we are armed; we are armed because we are civilized..
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maxxoccupancy
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I fired into an area of soft dirt that I could plainly see. If the bullet were going to somehow come back, it could only come back directly at me. How could it miss me and then zing around the room and hit someone else? I can't believe that we have people calling themselves pro liberty who talk like anti-gun prosecutors.
It reminds me of the gun owners (perhaps the majority?) against open carry. Everyone isn't lockstep. My guess is you know your yard well enough to know about rocks. I think the charges against you are wrong, but the same charges could have been brought against you in most states as far as I know. Warning shots just don't seem like a good idea, legally. I don't see things changing on the legislative front, anywhere in the world, on this issue anytime soon It was that or watch people get seriously injured or worse. I had only a few seconds to come up with way to stop the fight, and there was no way in hell that I could find my cell phone to call 911 before someone else grabbed another potentially deadly weapon, let alone wait around ten minutes for Seabrook PD to get there, screaming like Gestapo with their weapons drawn on people, their fingers on the trigger. By that time, some of the assailants were running into the woods for the Mass border. Although they were caught later by Salisbury PD, Seabrook had them let go. |
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Logged
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We're in need of volunteers to help out with Freedom Expo. PM one of the organizers (like me) if you'd like to help.
"The Free State Project is an agreement among 20,000 pro-liberty activists to move to New Hampshire, where they will exert the fullest practical effort toward the creation of a society in which the maximum role of government is the protection of life, liberty, and property." Freedom Expo is at Trinity Parish House, Seabrook, April 27, 2013! (right next to the Post Office)
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MaineShark
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It was that or watch people get seriously injured or worse. I had only a few seconds to come up with way to stop the fight, and there was no way in hell that I could find my cell phone to call 911 before someone else grabbed another potentially deadly weapon, let alone wait around ten minutes for Seabrook PD to get there, screaming like Gestapo with their weapons drawn on people, their fingers on the trigger. You could have drawn and not fired. But your claim that Seabrook PD were going to show up and cause a dangerous situation is nonsensical. Discharging a firearm was certain to get a response from the police, and however aggressive and dangerous their response to a fight might have been, their response to "shots fired" is going to be a thousand times more severe. By that time, some of the assailants were running into the woods for the Mass border. Although they were caught later by Salisbury PD, Seabrook had them let go. Sounds like that has more to do with your choice than anything else. You wanted to play cop and capture them. Why else would it matter to you if they ran off? If someone was causing a problem at my house and then left, I'd be pleased. You did, after all, run for an elected cop position, so you can hardly claim that it holds no interest for you... |
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Logged
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"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.
We are not civilized because we are armed; we are armed because we are civilized..
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maxxoccupancy
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I'd like to see concrete evidence that Max did not in fact save people that night (preferably see it without sitting through 20 hours of court)!
I'm presently reviewing the audio of the trial looking for evidence that I either acted recklessly (Element 1) or placed another in danger (Element 2). There is ample evidence of Defense of Others, Competing Harms, and Defense of Premises, but no evidence offered that I saw that I had actually created a substantial and unjustifiable risk. Bullets don't ricochet off of dirt, and if it had, any fragments would have hit me and no one else. |
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Logged
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We're in need of volunteers to help out with Freedom Expo. PM one of the organizers (like me) if you'd like to help.
"The Free State Project is an agreement among 20,000 pro-liberty activists to move to New Hampshire, where they will exert the fullest practical effort toward the creation of a society in which the maximum role of government is the protection of life, liberty, and property." Freedom Expo is at Trinity Parish House, Seabrook, April 27, 2013! (right next to the Post Office)
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