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Author Topic: The *OFFICIAL* Gary Johnson 2012 Thread  (Read 16871 times)
maxxoccupancy
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Re: The *OFFICIAL* Gary Johnson 2012 Thread
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2012, 01:55:05 pm »

GJ is clearly the best known LP candidate to run in a long time.  He has the best organization, funding, and a track record to take us all the way to November.

That's true.  But at this point, supporting Paul is still the best way to promote libertarian ideas in presidential politics.  There may be a different story in August, but not right now.

Donating time and money early is the only way to get the snowball rolling.  If you can't donate a lot, donate early.  GJ will definitely be on the ballot in November, and he will be promoting libertarian ideas from now until then.  A small amount of money going into his campaign now results in a lot of radio ads, fundraisers, and outreach over the next few months leading up to the Vegas convention, which will certainly be televised, again.

Can you think of another way to spend you dollar in any other way that gets you as much bang for the buck?
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Re: The *OFFICIAL* Gary Johnson 2012 Thread
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2012, 09:59:10 am »

GJ is clearly the best known LP candidate to run in a long time.  He has the best organization, funding, and a track record to take us all the way to November.

That's true.  But at this point, supporting Paul is still the best way to promote libertarian ideas in presidential politics.  There may be a different story in August, but not right now.

Donating time and money early is the only way to get the snowball rolling.  If you can't donate a lot, donate early.  GJ will definitely be on the ballot in November, and he will be promoting libertarian ideas from now until then.  A small amount of money going into his campaign now results in a lot of radio ads, fundraisers, and outreach over the next few months leading up to the Vegas convention, which will certainly be televised, again.

Can you think of another way to spend you dollar in any other way that gets you as much bang for the buck?

Send it Ron Paul.  I like Gary Johnson but outside of the Republican party his reach is extremely limited.  That's why Paul went the Republican Party route and why Johnson tried.  Through the GOP debates Paul has been able to spread his message much, much farther than any LP candidate could hope for.  And Paul has a chance to spread his message even further with leverage from his delegates.

What advantages do you see Johnson having over Paul.
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MaineShark
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Re: The *OFFICIAL* Gary Johnson 2012 Thread
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2012, 11:58:23 am »

there are plenty of libertarians who believe that a baby inside of a mother is still a person deserving of the same rights as others.  Just sayin'.

That should be 100% of libertarians.

But it's irrelevant to the abortion debate, as no person has the right to control another's body.  And if no person has that right, then the baby, who is a person, also does not have that right.

A landlord can always evict a tenant.  It's unfortunate that the baby cannot survive being evicted, but that does not change the mother's right to control her own body, any more than "but I have no where else to go" should prevent a landlord from evicting a deadbeat from an apartment.  As medical science advances, the gestational age at which the eviction can be done without automatically resulting in death gets younger and younger.  Eventually, we will have artificial wombs, and the issue will become moot.  But, until then, the mother's ownership of her body takes precedent over the baby's tenancy.
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Re: The *OFFICIAL* Gary Johnson 2012 Thread
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2012, 11:09:49 pm »

I'm wondering why everyone is jumping with the consequential libertarian. What about the others seeking the LP nomination? What if someone more libertarian than Gary Johnson is in the race? You know we are talking about a party that nominated Bob Barr. (Both parties did.)

I agree with most of what Johnson says and would vote for him in a general election but he is not the only choice. (I'd need to campaign hard against consumption tax to vote for him though.)
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maxxoccupancy
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Re: The *OFFICIAL* Gary Johnson 2012 Thread
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2012, 11:57:03 pm »

GJ is clearly the best known LP candidate to run in a long time.  He has the best organization, funding, and a track record to take us all the way to November.
That's true.  But at this point, supporting Paul is still the best way to promote libertarian ideas in presidential politics.  There may be a different story in August, but not right now.
Donating time and money early is the only way to get the snowball rolling.  If you can't donate a lot, donate early.  GJ will definitely be on the ballot in November, and he will be promoting libertarian ideas from now until then.  A small amount of money going into his campaign now results in a lot of radio ads, fundraisers, and outreach over the next few months leading up to the Vegas convention, which will certainly be televised, again.

Can you think of another way to spend you dollar in any other way that gets you as much bang for the buck?

Send it Ron Paul.  I like Gary Johnson but outside of the Republican party his reach is extremely limited.  That's why Paul went the Republican Party route and why Johnson tried.  Through the GOP debates Paul has been able to spread his message much, much farther than any LP candidate could hope for.  And Paul has a chance to spread his message even further with leverage from his delegates.

What advantages do you see Johnson having over Paul.

As of the GOP convention--coronating Romney, most likely--the only pro liberty candidate left running for the presidency will likely be GJ.  Early money sent now will be matched, then used for Internet and radio ads, as well as fundraisers that bring in more funds.

I'm looking past summer.  There are some good LP presidential and vice-presidential candidates.  We have this opportunity every four years to make the plug for Constitutionally limited government and ending the various wars--domestic and international.
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Re: The *OFFICIAL* Gary Johnson 2012 Thread
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2012, 10:01:58 pm »

Oh yes immigration. What his campaign site says dosn't even matter. He is just trying to sell his opinion to a slightly unenlightened electorate. His website dose not contradict his actual opinion spelled out in Liberty Defined, an opinion that has given him a lot of heat from anti-immigration groups.
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Re: The *OFFICIAL* Gary Johnson 2012 Thread
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2012, 11:50:21 am »


As of the GOP convention--coronating Romney, most likely--the only pro liberty candidate left running for the presidency will likely be GJ.  Early money sent now will be matched, then used for Internet and radio ads, as well as fundraisers that bring in more funds.

I'm looking past summer.  There are some good LP presidential and vice-presidential candidates.  We have this opportunity every four years to make the plug for Constitutionally limited government and ending the various wars--domestic and international.

The LP gets the opportunity every 4 years but it's a very limited opportunity.  Just being realistic here, Johnson isn't getting invited to any of the Presidential debates, isn't getting any major press time and he isn't going to have enough money to market his message nationwide.  How many people that aren't already libertarian-oriented is Johnson, or any LP candidate going to reach?

Paul has already been down that road and that's why he went to the GOP.  And this cycle represents a golden opportunity in the GOP because they delegates going to Tampa may decide the nominee.  And the Paul camp will likely have significant leverage in that convention.  The more delegates he gets the more leverage he has.  And he plans to use that leverage to make a splash on a national level.

Johnson does just haven't that sort of opportunity in front of him, at least not this cycle, not at this time.  If the GOP abandons the Paul camp, then there will be a lot of disaffected GOPers.  But they haven't given up yet.

IMO, if Johnson has a chance to make a huge impact, it's as the successor to Paul (official or not).  But you can't succeed the leader until he's done.  And Paul isn't done.  He's still building the movement, still working towards the biggest gains he can make.
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Liberty603
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Re: The *OFFICIAL* Gary Johnson 2012 Thread
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2012, 12:18:03 pm »

IMO, if Johnson has a chance to make a huge impact, it's as the successor to Paul (official or not).  But you can't succeed the leader until he's done.  And Paul isn't done.  He's still building the movement, still working towards the biggest gains he can make.

Well put. In my humble opinion, Johnson made a big mistake by not backing Paul this time around. Backing Paul would have been a win-win, he would have gotten more attention personally (and been much better positioned for 2016 and beyond) as well as helping add momentum to the campaign. Instead, he will likely be a barely-mentioned footnote in this election, and remain unknown to most Ron Paul supporters.

Also, previous posters are correct to point out that Johnson is more of a pragmatist than a principled libertarian. Important distinction.
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Re: The *OFFICIAL* Gary Johnson 2012 Thread
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2012, 12:46:20 pm »

I'm a natural-rights guy myself, but all I really want in a politician is a reliable vote, & GJ seems more reliable (on the issues that matter to me) than RP. But I'm happy to support RP until the convention. I just don't see where he goes from there, other than endorsing GJ. Let's be honest: none of the non-RP GOP candidates is acceptable to libertarians, and neither is Obama. GJ at least gives us a real choice in November. He doesn't have the personal charisma of Paul, but I'd be happy to see a Libertarian candidate just break the 1% barrier for the first time since 1980.
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Re: The *OFFICIAL* Gary Johnson 2012 Thread
« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2012, 01:24:53 pm »

Personally, I have little interest in the future of the Libertarian Party (or any other political party) and more interest in spreading the ideas of liberty to more people. In that arena, Ron Paul is leading by far. Where he goes from there is that his ideas continue via Campaign for Liberty and his network of supporters.

Johnson is on the right side of many issues, but at the end of the day, he's less of an ideas guy and less of a true libertarian. Here is a good illustration:  Governor Gary Johnson - I would not close Gitmo  Instead justifying his position based on any of his own principles, he cites unnamed "prominent libertarians" to claim that we "have to" have a prison camp.
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Re: The *OFFICIAL* Gary Johnson 2012 Thread
« Reply #25 on: February 27, 2012, 03:06:55 pm »

I've never found a politician I agree with 100%.
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Re: The *OFFICIAL* Gary Johnson 2012 Thread
« Reply #26 on: February 27, 2012, 09:19:52 pm »

Personally, I have little interest in the future of the Libertarian Party (or any other political party) and more interest in spreading the ideas of liberty to more people. In that arena, Ron Paul is leading by far. Where he goes from there is that his ideas continue via Campaign for Liberty and his network of supporters.

Johnson is on the right side of many issues, but at the end of the day, he's less of an ideas guy and less of a true libertarian. Here is a good illustration:  Governor Gary Johnson - I would not close Gitmo  Instead justifying his position based on any of his own principles, he cites unnamed "prominent libertarians" to claim that we "have to" have a prison camp.
Same thing happens with Paul.
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maxxoccupancy
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Re: The *OFFICIAL* Gary Johnson 2012 Thread
« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2012, 02:39:47 am »

https://www.facebook.com/events/343346032364701/?ref=ts

Here's the FB event page for the Wednesday fundraiser.  This should be a fun event with a lot of cool people going.
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Re: The *OFFICIAL* Gary Johnson 2012 Thread
« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2012, 05:19:36 pm »

Well put. In my humble opinion, Johnson made a big mistake by not backing Paul this time around. Backing Paul would have been a win-win, he would have gotten more attention personally (and been much better positioned for 2016 and beyond) as well as helping add momentum to the campaign. Instead, he will likely be a barely-mentioned footnote in this election, and remain unknown to most Ron Paul supporters.

Johnson endorsed Paul in 2008. He also endorsed Paul in the GOP primary.

What we are left with is what are you going to do come September, October, November when Paul is no longer in the race because the GOP won't give it too him. Are the campaign for liberty's 1 million liberty activist just going to stay home? Or do you get out and support Gary Johnson who will be on the ballot in all 50 states and is currently polling at 7% against Obama/Romney -- double that and he's in the debates then the election is wide open.
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Re: The *OFFICIAL* Gary Johnson 2012 Thread
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2012, 05:27:13 pm »

What advantages do you see Johnson having over Paul.

He'll be on the ballot in 50 states in November.

No need to pit one against the other though. The delegate strategy isn't going to give Paul anything useful. He gets to talk to a bunch of republicans on the RNC in August? Big deal. The real election cycle starts in September when the independents and others really start paying attention.

Paul should attend the LP Convention in 4 weeks, team up with Johnson, and then take on Obama/Romney. At this point it would generate much more attention to Paul than he's been getting so far. A third party ticket at a time when 70% of the country is willing to vote for a viable third party ticket is now... this would crush the GOP like the Republicans did to the Whigs in 1850.

The longer Paul stays with the GOP the more he is their puppet -- propping up a party that is really ready to collapse.
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