Pages: 1 [2] 
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Topic: The Physics of God and the Quantum Gravity Theory of Everything (Read 8159 times)
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friedmanfollower
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Ok, try this one on for size:
Page 45 states:
"The reason God cannot do this is because this would create a logically paradoxical strange loop whereby the
knowledge of good and evil doesn’t exist in existence, thereby setting the stage for the
destruction of existence due to evil being generated by a highly advanced society: as
the universe’s Taublike collapses in different directions require a high level of cooperation
among the far-future sapient beings, and hence a highly complex free-market
economy, of which could not exist if evil were allowed to grow without restraint."
I'm not pretending to understand 95% of this garbled mess, but in the first 6 words is a contradiction: "The reason God cannot do this." This overtly contradicts the argument that God is omnipotent. A second contradiction would be "thereby setting the stage for the destruction of existence", if God is eternal how can existence, and presumably God along with it, be destroyed?
If your argument then is that God is omnipotent, but only omnipotent in a way that is consistent with the principles of physics then I think that you have a flawed premise right there.
Traditional Christian theology has maintained that God cannot perform a logical contradiction. The omnipotence of God has been taken to mean that God can do anything that does not involve a logical contradiction. Regarding your second concern, a logical contradiction cannot be realized in actuality, and so any scenario which would bring about such a contradiction is not possible. If the universe did not evolve into the Omega Point, then a logical contradiction would result if the known laws of physic are correct (i.e., the Second Law of Thermodynamics, General Relativity, and Quantum Mechanics), since then one or more of these known physical laws would be mutually inconsistent. That is to say that if the known laws of physics are correct then a scenario which would destroy existence is not possible, i.e., creating the above-mentioned logically paradoxical strange loop is not possible. Regarding your last concern, traditional Christian theology has maintained that God never violates natural law, as God, in His omniscience, knew in the beginning all that He wanted to achieve and so, in His omnipotence, He formed the laws of physics in order to achieve His goal. The idea that God would violate His own laws would mean that God is not omniscient. In traditional Christian theology, miracles do not violate natural law--rather, they are events which are so improbable that they can only be explained by the existence of God and His acting in the world. For more on that, see the Glossary entry "miracle" on pp. 132-133. Luke 1:37 clearly states, "For with God nothing is ever impossible and no word from God shall be without power or impossible of fulfillment." Meaning nothing, even logically impossible events, are beyond the power of the God of the New Testament. So, one of your presumptions must be incorrect: 1) The Omega Point is the logical evolution of the universe. 2) The Omega Point is the God of the New Testament. 3) God created natural laws. 4) The New Testament is infallible. |
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« Last Edit: August 18, 2012, 02:13:08 am by friedmanfollower »
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Tet Omeg
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Ok, try this one on for size:
Page 45 states:
"The reason God cannot do this is because this would create a logically paradoxical strange loop whereby the
knowledge of good and evil doesn’t exist in existence, thereby setting the stage for the
destruction of existence due to evil being generated by a highly advanced society: as
the universe’s Taublike collapses in different directions require a high level of cooperation
among the far-future sapient beings, and hence a highly complex free-market
economy, of which could not exist if evil were allowed to grow without restraint."
I'm not pretending to understand 95% of this garbled mess, but in the first 6 words is a contradiction: "The reason God cannot do this." This overtly contradicts the argument that God is omnipotent. A second contradiction would be "thereby setting the stage for the destruction of existence", if God is eternal how can existence, and presumably God along with it, be destroyed?
If your argument then is that God is omnipotent, but only omnipotent in a way that is consistent with the principles of physics then I think that you have a flawed premise right there.
Traditional Christian theology has maintained that God cannot perform a logical contradiction. The omnipotence of God has been taken to mean that God can do anything that does not involve a logical contradiction. Regarding your second concern, a logical contradiction cannot be realized in actuality, and so any scenario which would bring about such a contradiction is not possible. If the universe did not evolve into the Omega Point, then a logical contradiction would result if the known laws of physic are correct (i.e., the Second Law of Thermodynamics, General Relativity, and Quantum Mechanics), since then one or more of these known physical laws would be mutually inconsistent. That is to say that if the known laws of physics are correct then a scenario which would destroy existence is not possible, i.e., creating the above-mentioned logically paradoxical strange loop is not possible. Regarding your last concern, traditional Christian theology has maintained that God never violates natural law, as God, in His omniscience, knew in the beginning all that He wanted to achieve and so, in His omnipotence, He formed the laws of physics in order to achieve His goal. The idea that God would violate His own laws would mean that God is not omniscient. In traditional Christian theology, miracles do not violate natural law--rather, they are events which are so improbable that they can only be explained by the existence of God and His acting in the world. For more on that, see the Glossary entry "miracle" on pp. 132-133. Luke 1:37 clearly states, "For with God nothing is ever impossible and no word from God shall be without power or impossible of fulfillment." Meaning nothing, even logically impossible events, are beyond the power of the God of the New Testament. So, one of your presumptions must be incorrect: 1) The Omega Point is the logical evolution of the universe. 2) The Omega Point is the God of the New Testament. 3) God can suspend natural laws. 4) The New Testament is infallible. Luke 1:37 states, "For with God nothing will be impossible." (New King James Version.) The context in which this was stated was by an angel sent to Mary, wherein Mary asked the angel how it would be possible to give birth to a son, since she was a virgin. So the context of "nothing will be impossible" concerned nature miracles. The angel wasn't giving a commentary on God violating logic. If you want, I suppose you can say that the angel was imprecise in his speech, or that Mary was imprecise in her paraphrase of him; but in reality there are a lot of assumptions taken for granted in all natural human languages, i.e., idioms and figures of speech. |
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James Redford, author of "Jesus Is an Anarchist", Social Science Research Network (SSRN), revised and expanded edition, December 4, 2011 (originally published December 19, 2001).
Theophysics: God Is the Ultimate Physicist (a website with information on Prof. Frank J. Tipler's Omega Point Theory and the quantum gravity Theory of Everything [TOE]).
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friedmanfollower
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Ok, try this one on for size:
Page 45 states:
"The reason God cannot do this is because this would create a logically paradoxical strange loop whereby the
knowledge of good and evil doesn’t exist in existence, thereby setting the stage for the
destruction of existence due to evil being generated by a highly advanced society: as
the universe’s Taublike collapses in different directions require a high level of cooperation
among the far-future sapient beings, and hence a highly complex free-market
economy, of which could not exist if evil were allowed to grow without restraint."
I'm not pretending to understand 95% of this garbled mess, but in the first 6 words is a contradiction: "The reason God cannot do this." This overtly contradicts the argument that God is omnipotent. A second contradiction would be "thereby setting the stage for the destruction of existence", if God is eternal how can existence, and presumably God along with it, be destroyed?
If your argument then is that God is omnipotent, but only omnipotent in a way that is consistent with the principles of physics then I think that you have a flawed premise right there.
Traditional Christian theology has maintained that God cannot perform a logical contradiction. The omnipotence of God has been taken to mean that God can do anything that does not involve a logical contradiction. Regarding your second concern, a logical contradiction cannot be realized in actuality, and so any scenario which would bring about such a contradiction is not possible. If the universe did not evolve into the Omega Point, then a logical contradiction would result if the known laws of physic are correct (i.e., the Second Law of Thermodynamics, General Relativity, and Quantum Mechanics), since then one or more of these known physical laws would be mutually inconsistent. That is to say that if the known laws of physics are correct then a scenario which would destroy existence is not possible, i.e., creating the above-mentioned logically paradoxical strange loop is not possible. Regarding your last concern, traditional Christian theology has maintained that God never violates natural law, as God, in His omniscience, knew in the beginning all that He wanted to achieve and so, in His omnipotence, He formed the laws of physics in order to achieve His goal. The idea that God would violate His own laws would mean that God is not omniscient. In traditional Christian theology, miracles do not violate natural law--rather, they are events which are so improbable that they can only be explained by the existence of God and His acting in the world. For more on that, see the Glossary entry "miracle" on pp. 132-133. Luke 1:37 clearly states, "For with God nothing is ever impossible and no word from God shall be without power or impossible of fulfillment." Meaning nothing, even logically impossible events, are beyond the power of the God of the New Testament. So, one of your presumptions must be incorrect: 1) The Omega Point is the logical evolution of the universe. 2) The Omega Point is the God of the New Testament. 3) God can suspend natural laws. 4) The New Testament is infallible. Luke 1:37 states, "For with God nothing will be impossible." (New King James Version.) The context in which this was stated was by an angel sent to Mary, wherein Mary asked the angel how it would be possible to give birth to a son, since she was a virgin. So the context of "nothing will be impossible" concerned nature miracles. The angel wasn't giving a commentary on God violating logic. If you want, I suppose you can say that the angel was imprecise in his speech, or that Mary was imprecise in her paraphrase of him; but in reality there are a lot of assumptions taken for granted in all natural human languages, i.e., idioms and figures of speech. Okay, how about the problem of Good then? If goodness can only come from God, as the New Testament states (Mark 10:18), how can the statement on page 46 make logical sense: "Existence has no choice but to go through a stage of pain and suffering in its early period in order for existence to learn of good and evil before evil becomes powerful enough to destroy existence itself." If the existence of good is impossible without God how can existence learn about good? |
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« Last Edit: August 18, 2012, 02:55:52 am by friedmanfollower »
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Tet Omeg
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Ok, try this one on for size:
Page 45 states:
"The reason God cannot do this is because this would create a logically paradoxical strange loop whereby the
knowledge of good and evil doesn’t exist in existence, thereby setting the stage for the
destruction of existence due to evil being generated by a highly advanced society: as
the universe’s Taublike collapses in different directions require a high level of cooperation
among the far-future sapient beings, and hence a highly complex free-market
economy, of which could not exist if evil were allowed to grow without restraint."
I'm not pretending to understand 95% of this garbled mess, but in the first 6 words is a contradiction: "The reason God cannot do this." This overtly contradicts the argument that God is omnipotent. A second contradiction would be "thereby setting the stage for the destruction of existence", if God is eternal how can existence, and presumably God along with it, be destroyed?
If your argument then is that God is omnipotent, but only omnipotent in a way that is consistent with the principles of physics then I think that you have a flawed premise right there.
Traditional Christian theology has maintained that God cannot perform a logical contradiction. The omnipotence of God has been taken to mean that God can do anything that does not involve a logical contradiction. Regarding your second concern, a logical contradiction cannot be realized in actuality, and so any scenario which would bring about such a contradiction is not possible. If the universe did not evolve into the Omega Point, then a logical contradiction would result if the known laws of physic are correct (i.e., the Second Law of Thermodynamics, General Relativity, and Quantum Mechanics), since then one or more of these known physical laws would be mutually inconsistent. That is to say that if the known laws of physics are correct then a scenario which would destroy existence is not possible, i.e., creating the above-mentioned logically paradoxical strange loop is not possible. Regarding your last concern, traditional Christian theology has maintained that God never violates natural law, as God, in His omniscience, knew in the beginning all that He wanted to achieve and so, in His omnipotence, He formed the laws of physics in order to achieve His goal. The idea that God would violate His own laws would mean that God is not omniscient. In traditional Christian theology, miracles do not violate natural law--rather, they are events which are so improbable that they can only be explained by the existence of God and His acting in the world. For more on that, see the Glossary entry "miracle" on pp. 132-133. Luke 1:37 clearly states, "For with God nothing is ever impossible and no word from God shall be without power or impossible of fulfillment." Meaning nothing, even logically impossible events, are beyond the power of the God of the New Testament. So, one of your presumptions must be incorrect: 1) The Omega Point is the logical evolution of the universe. 2) The Omega Point is the God of the New Testament. 3) God can suspend natural laws. 4) The New Testament is infallible. Luke 1:37 states, "For with God nothing will be impossible." (New King James Version.) The context in which this was stated was by an angel sent to Mary, wherein Mary asked the angel how it would be possible to give birth to a son, since she was a virgin. So the context of "nothing will be impossible" concerned nature miracles. The angel wasn't giving a commentary on God violating logic. If you want, I suppose you can say that the angel was imprecise in his speech, or that Mary was imprecise in her paraphrase of him; but in reality there are a lot of assumptions taken for granted in all natural human languages, i.e., idioms and figures of speech. Okay, how about the problem of Good then? If goodness can only come from God, as the New Testament states (Mark 10:18), how can the statement on page 46 make logical sense: "Existence has no choice but to go through a stage of pain and suffering in its early period in order for existence to learn of good and evil before evil becomes powerful enough to destroy existence itself." If the existence of good is impossible without God how can existence learn about good? What Mark 10:18 actually states is, "So Jesus said to him, 'Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.'" (New King James Version.) That is perfectly consistent with the theodicy which I relate in my "Physics of God" article. See footnote 78 on p. 36 for how that is possible. As I therein explain, God is infinitely good even if evil exists in the universe (which it does), because at the Omega Point final singularity the pleasurable states have asymptotic density 1 as compared with the painful states with asymptotic density 0. In other words, the Omega Point final singularity is the infinite perfection of existence: it is the infinite perfection of all logically possible knowledge, of all pleasure, and of liberty. So when Jesus said that, what He was saying is that goodness is only infinitely perfect at the Omega Point, i.e., God the Father. He wasn't saying that no one has any goodness about them except God, rather He was saying that only God is truly good in the sense of perfect goodness. All other beings except for God are flawed in their goodness, i.e., at best they are good in some things and not so good in others. As an aside, how theologians have usually interpreted this passage is that Jesus was attempting stimulate His questioner to think about why he (the questioner) would think that He (Jesus) was good, since it would be agreed by both that only God is truly good. In other words, it was an interlocutory implied claim of divinity by Jesus. |
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James Redford, author of "Jesus Is an Anarchist", Social Science Research Network (SSRN), revised and expanded edition, December 4, 2011 (originally published December 19, 2001).
Theophysics: God Is the Ultimate Physicist (a website with information on Prof. Frank J. Tipler's Omega Point Theory and the quantum gravity Theory of Everything [TOE]).
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maxxoccupancy
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I can explain Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity, Unified Field Theory, Quantum Mechanics, radioactive dating methods and their limitations, or photo-electronics in about a page.
I can explain the philosophy of why I believe that there must be a God in one page or less, or even discuss the purpose of life. Why don't smart people proofread their work to remove duplication.
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We're in need of volunteers to help out with Freedom Expo. PM one of the organizers (like me) if you'd like to help.
"The Free State Project is an agreement among 20,000 pro-liberty activists to move to New Hampshire, where they will exert the fullest practical effort toward the creation of a society in which the maximum role of government is the protection of life, liberty, and property." Freedom Expo is at Trinity Parish House, Seabrook, April 27, 2013! (right next to the Post Office)
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crossonscout
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I can explain Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity, Unified Field Theory, Quantum Mechanics, radioactive dating methods and their limitations, or photo-electronics in about a page.
I can explain the philosophy of why I believe that there must be a God in one page or less, or even discuss the purpose of life. Why don't smart people proofread their work to remove duplication.
Because smart people like to hear themselves talk.  |
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When people get a little too chummy with me I like to call them by the wrong name to let them know I really don't care about them. -Ron Swanson
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maxxoccupancy
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I can explain Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity, Unified Field Theory, Quantum Mechanics, radioactive dating methods and their limitations, or photo-electronics in about a page.
I can explain the philosophy of why I believe that there must be a God in one page or less, or even discuss the purpose of life. Why don't smart people proofread their work to remove duplication.
Because smart people like to hear themselves talk. Touche. |
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Logged
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We're in need of volunteers to help out with Freedom Expo. PM one of the organizers (like me) if you'd like to help.
"The Free State Project is an agreement among 20,000 pro-liberty activists to move to New Hampshire, where they will exert the fullest practical effort toward the creation of a society in which the maximum role of government is the protection of life, liberty, and property." Freedom Expo is at Trinity Parish House, Seabrook, April 27, 2013! (right next to the Post Office)
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Tet Omeg
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I can explain Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity, Unified Field Theory, Quantum Mechanics, radioactive dating methods and their limitations, or photo-electronics in about a page.
I can explain the philosophy of why I believe that there must be a God in one page or less, or even discuss the purpose of life. Why don't smart people proofread their work to remove duplication.
Hi, Maxxoccupancy. Have you never read a book? My work "The Physics of God and the Quantum Gravity Theory of Everything" is a book or a long article. And there is hardly any duplication in it, except that which cannot be avoided without compromising its coherency. Each section is very short and makes its case in a very direct and hard-hitting way, getting to the marrow of the issue. I don't beat around the bush, but instead get to the point quickly using non-obfuscatory language. Indeed, I even used a bibliography so that there would not be repetition of reference entries. So it's not actually possible to make the article significantly shorter while still relating the same information--including the references, per the Scholarly Method. |
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James Redford, author of "Jesus Is an Anarchist", Social Science Research Network (SSRN), revised and expanded edition, December 4, 2011 (originally published December 19, 2001).
Theophysics: God Is the Ultimate Physicist (a website with information on Prof. Frank J. Tipler's Omega Point Theory and the quantum gravity Theory of Everything [TOE]).
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Tet Omeg
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In the below link are six sections which contain very informative videos of physicist and mathematician Prof. Frank J. Tipler explaining the Omega Point cosmology, which is a proof (i.e., mathematical theorem) of God's existence per the known laws of physics (i.e., the Second Law of Thermodynamics, General Relativity, and Quantum Mechanics), and the Feynman-DeWitt-Weinberg quantum gravity/Standard Model Theory of Everything (TOE), which is also required by the known laws of physics. The seventh section therein contains an audio interview of Tipler. A number of these videos are not otherwise online. I also provide some helpful notes and commentary for some of these videos. James Redford, "Video of Profs. Frank Tipler and Lawrence Krauss's Debate at Caltech: Can Physics Prove God and Christianity?", net.science.misc, Message-ID: tve0m8tnsr38g51tuj428k1olms444l7r0@4ax.com , 06 Apr 2013 11:18:59 -0400 https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/net.science.misc/8sAF9oZevLo , http://archive.is/ygRlX |
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« Last Edit: May 11, 2013, 01:23:28 pm by Tet Omeg »
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James Redford, author of "Jesus Is an Anarchist", Social Science Research Network (SSRN), revised and expanded edition, December 4, 2011 (originally published December 19, 2001).
Theophysics: God Is the Ultimate Physicist (a website with information on Prof. Frank J. Tipler's Omega Point Theory and the quantum gravity Theory of Everything [TOE]).
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Pages: 1 [2] 
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