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Topic: Are there any "Halt Smart Meter" initiatives in the Granite State (Read 17701 times)
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rank420
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We have these idiot meters here in Cali. These meter readers actually ride around on damn segways. I had to laugh  It reminded me of the WALL E people for some reason. |
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JonM
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I've seen my meter reader on a segway, ride to the back of my house, read the meter, all while I was in the front yard and without even acknowledging me. Haven't seen what he's done since I blocked that path with a 10x20 tent.
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Tuk
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I work for a midsize power company in NE and as far as I can tell, we don't like the PUC because they force us to make decisions that suck for turning a profit. Like letting disabled people pay tiny amounts toward their thousands of dollars in arrears account. They also fine us if we don't meet quality standards.
Without the government we'd be making a lot more profit, since it would take forever for a startup company to get as big as us.
You're also underestimating the cost of repairing storm damage. Obviously without government control, power would be decentralized, but that would result in other problems.
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MaineShark
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Without the government we'd be making a lot more profit, since it would take forever for a startup company to get as big as us. Except that, in any change from the current system to a free market, the current monopolies would have to be broken up into smaller pieces. You're also underestimating the cost of repairing storm damage. Obviously without government control, power would be decentralized, but that would result in other problems. Without the current tax code and regulations that favor constant repair, companies would make the investments necessary to reduce storm damage (eg, buried lines, which cannot be hit by falling trees). Long-term profit is enhanced by reducing maintenance costs, so any sensible company would make whatever investments it could, in order to reduce maintenance costs... except that current regulations incentivize maintenance and penalize investment. |
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"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.
We are not civilized because we are armed; we are armed because we are civilized..
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Tuk
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From what I've heard around the office, it would be too expensive to bury lines in the granite. I've never heard mention of regulatory reasons, but it could just be included in the costs. I'm not involved with that side of the business though.
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MaineShark
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From what I've heard around the office, it would be too expensive to bury lines in the granite. It's not. Buried lines are about 20-30% more, last I checked. It doesn't take many repairs to equal the cost premium, and then exceed it. |
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"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.
We are not civilized because we are armed; we are armed because we are civilized..
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JonM
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Dig, set poll, string lines is FAR less costly than dig, dig, dig, dig. Over hundreds of miles, it adds up. It costs between 4 to 7 times as much to do it for the lines going to your house, and 6 to 7 times as much for high voltage transmission lines. Now if you're building a new development and already are doing the work to make a new road, burying utility lines isn't that much of an increase, perhaps the 20-30%. The cost to retrofit existing strung pole lines is a lot higher than the maintenance costs of fixing the lines that have issues. While hung lines aren't pretty, when they do have an issue, they're a lot easier to get to than buried lines. And if the claim that buried lines only have 50% fewer problems than hung lines is accurate, it's just not cost effective. When I switched internet providers, I noticed my power line hanging a bit lower than I would like, I called them up and they came and tightened the line. I also called the company that I no longer had any business relationship with who owned another wire going to my house and asked them to raise that up a few feet, which they did. http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/news/931630-196/cost-of-burying-power-lines-would-be.html |
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MaineShark
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I'd encourage anyone interested in the subject to read the report that's attached to that article.
The high costs reported are based, of course, on what the monopolistic utilities claim it would cost them, not on any objective assessment.
The author also makes assumptions that overhead lines are installed radially, and underground lines would require conversion to a looped system (increasing the cost of wiring, since a looped system uses more wire). In fact, many areas already have looped systems, so that assumption is not applicable to those areas.
There are also multi-parallel options, where the extra conductors of a looped system are installed, but are not left dead. Instead, all of the conductors are used, and the switchgear will automatically shut down a failed conductor and issue a trouble report as to precisely which section contains the problem. The result is an outage-free system. With overhead lines, such an arrangement would be pointless; anything that takes out one conductor, typically takes out all of them.
The author also claims that additional easements would be required, which is nonsensical, as the wires would be run under the edge of the road, in the existing roadway easement. The length of pull between manholes, and numerous other numbers, are patently false. And other comments are obvious attempts to distort the issue. For example, it's claimed that special pulling equipment is required to pull wires through underground conduits, which is true, but special pulling equipment is required to pull wires on overhead lines, as well; it's a lie by omission.
That report was clearly written for the purpose of rubber-stamping specific proposals, not actually analyzing the situation. The Telegraph article is similarly laden with obvious bias. The claims made by the utilities are taken as Gospel truth, with not attempt to do any sort of actual investigation.
The higher cost of high voltage transmission lines is more-accurate, but only if one considers the burial option to be a superconducting high voltage direct current system. But, such a system would be a good idea, despite the higher cost, as there are numerous advantages. Being superconducting, the energy loss over miles of wire is far less, even when you take into account the energy consumed in running the chilling plants to keep the lines cryogenic (and chiller technology keeps improving in efficiency, so when a chiller fails, it's nearly certain that the replacement will be even more efficient). DC lines don't suffer synchronization issues or capacitance issues, can carry more power on a given conductor, and new generating stations designed to produce DC power and feed it directly into a DC grid would eliminate the cost of AC-to-DC conversion gear (AC is still better for local distribution, but for the "backbone" of the grid, high voltage DC has many advantages, so designing plants to produce DC power would be beneficial).
As noted, current regulations incentivize maintenance and penalize large-scale investments, so an analysis of what would happen without those regulations, has to take that into account. The higher up-front cost of certain technologies would be offset by lower long-term maintenance costs, in a free market. In a distorted market, where certain behaviors are taxed higher than others, of course the companies will favor the maintenance nightmare over the higher investment, because they get major tax benefits by doing so.
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"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.
We are not civilized because we are armed; we are armed because we are civilized..
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1DayAtATime
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« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 12:24:11 am by 1DayAtATime »
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