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Topic: Investments in NH (Read 2971 times)
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100c
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Anyone investing in the FSP, not giving money to the FSP, but pooling capital together to use in NH for the cause?
Are there any businesses for sale that a bunch of investors could get together and purchase? With enough people pooling funds maybe we could create some jobs that would attract people. The best way to attract people is by profits.
Another idea is perhaps purchasing some cheap land and developing it.
Just brainstorming...because if I'm going to move there, might as well have my capital there as well.
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Denis Goddard
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Not sure about 'pooling capital for the cause'
Lots of FSPers in NH are investing in gold and silver and other things that will increase in value as the value of fiat money in general & the US Dollar in particular lose their value.
Just having a concentration of activists whose economic power has not been decimated, will in itself be incredibly productive.
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MaineShark
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Anyone investing in the FSP, not giving money to the FSP, but pooling capital together to use in NH for the cause?
Are there any businesses for sale that a bunch of investors could get together and purchase? With enough people pooling funds maybe we could create some jobs that would attract people. The best way to attract people is by profits.
Another idea is perhaps purchasing some cheap land and developing it.
Just brainstorming...because if I'm going to move there, might as well have my capital there as well. It's been discussed, at length. So far, finding folks who actually have money (at least, at the level where it makes sense to call it "capital") is the problem. I think it would be a great idea for those who cannot, yet, make the move, but want to be able to put their money to work in NH. Invest in a liberty-friendly NH business, thereby helping those who are "on the ground," here, and earn interest on your investment, while you wait to move. Lots of FSPers in NH are investing in gold and silver and other things that will increase in value as the value of fiat money in general & the US Dollar in particular lose their value. Gold and silver do not increase in value. They are extremely stable, and have roughly the same purchasing power, now, that they did a century ago. They're a hedge against losses, but they are not an investment (other than "paper gold" and such, at which point you might just be investing in any of the other fiat currencies). Joe |
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"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.
We are not civilized because we are armed; we are armed because we are civilized..
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Vince112
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It would be amazing to set up a publicly traded corporation or LLC in New Hampshire which invests exclusively in New Hampshire. I would favor setting up a corporation because it would be much easier to raise capital. I can see why some free-staters would object to incorporation since it involves the government. Ideally the entity would be a conglomerate levered to the prosperity of folks living in NH. In my view, a firm starting out like this would grow much more quickly if it has a pool of insurance float with which to invest. "Float" is basically just the money people pay in premiums to an insurance company. The entity then invests the insurance "float" in various interests to secure a return. If strict underwriting standards are adhered to, float can serve as a source of cost-free or even profitable leverage. Sound like a good idea? I can't take credit for it. This is the model Berkshire Hathaway (warren buffett's holding company) has employed for decades and it flat out works. Normally, when you are utilizing insurance float to achieve a return, your return on capital can be much lower than it otherwise would be because the capital you are employing is essentially free money. Therefore, the firm should worry more about achieving a slow and steady return on capital. Put differently, you want to hit singles and doubles and completely avoid the risk of swinging for the fences. I can think of a few things which satisfy this criteria. Rental Properties Restaurants Conservatively run banks (like Centrix Bank which is a publicly traded community bank traded in New Hampshire) And of course, insurance companies. The more premiums you write, provided they are written with strict-discipline, the more cost-free leverage you have to invest. If every free stater in New Hampshire spent $1,000 annually in insurance from this firm, the firm would have close to $1 million to invest annually with which to earn a return. If every person signed up for the free state project did this, the firm would have $11,029,000 to invest annually in float alone. Therefore, it doesn't actually take a lot of free-staters to pool their money together, it just takes them to change their insurance to the company. I'm not saying starting an insurance company is cheap either. Another benefit of this model is that the cash generated from each of its businesses can be reinvested in different businesses. So basically, if the company's restaurant business is doing really well and doesn't need the excess cash it generates for capital expenditures or other necessary items to run its business, the company can take the excess cash to do other stuff like. There are also certain tax benefits to this kind of company that I don't want to go into, although New Hampshire's draconian 8.5% business profits tax and 5% dividends tax would seriously impact profitability. Perhaps most importantly, a business like this could employee free-staters. A business like this would take several decades to put together though. Why not start soon. Who's going to be the guy that starts it!  |
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« Last Edit: August 31, 2011, 09:31:25 pm by Vince112 »
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Vince112
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Gold and silver do not increase in value. They are extremely stable, and have roughly the same purchasing power, now, that they did a century ago. They're a hedge against losses, but they are not an investment (other than "paper gold" and such, at which point you might just be investing in any of the other fiat currencies).
Joe I agree with this. Gold and silver do not earn a return on capital and therefore really aren't investments. In my view, gold and silver are free market money much like the way dollars and coins are statist money. |
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Vince112
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Anyone investing in the FSP, not giving money to the FSP, but pooling capital together to use in NH for the cause?
Are there any businesses for sale that a bunch of investors could get together and purchase? With enough people pooling funds maybe we could create some jobs that would attract people. The best way to attract people is by profits.
Another idea is perhaps purchasing some cheap land and developing it.
Just brainstorming...because if I'm going to move there, might as well have my capital there as well. I thought this was a phenomenal idea by the way. I think pooling capital in the form of selling shares to whomever within the liberty movement will buy them is probably preferable to anything else I can think of. I think this organization needs some liberty themed named--I'm not creative so I'll leave that up to someone else!! There are always businesses for sale everywhere provided the price is right! |
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100c
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Initially, I like the idea of a corporation where people can purchase shares. Personally, I like REIT's that purchase land and then lease it, then distribute the profits to the shareholders as monthly dividends.
The problem with land, is that the #$!%# state can kill profits by property tax. The other problem is confidence. As freedom loving individuals, we are by nature a little fearful of being ripped off by people who claim to have our best interest in consideration. For a corporation to work, people have to trust those involved.
The amazing thing about how our opposition works is that they always seem to make a profit. An example that comes to mind is the 'inconvenient truth' movie. It was a big distortion of facts and science which led a lot of people to think government can fix our broken environment if we only give up some freedom. They deceived a lot of people, started a movement and got their investment back, Plus! I don't want to start an argument about global warming. People can choose to believe it if they want. That's not my point.
Here's my point, things that work almost always make a profit. We have to think about how to make this free state idea, profitable. I hope we can continue this conversation until we come up with something. I'm willing to pitch in some money, but we should be able to achieve some progress on our FSP goals, and make a profit at the same time.
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B.D. Ross
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It would be amazing to set up a publicly traded corporation or LLC in New Hampshire which invests exclusively in New Hampshire. I would favor setting up a corporation because it would be much easier to raise capital. I can see why some free-staters would object to incorporation since it involves the government.
Ideally the entity would be a conglomerate levered to the prosperity of folks living in NH. In my view, a firm starting out like this would grow much more quickly if it has a pool of insurance float with which to invest. "Float" is basically just the money people pay in premiums to an insurance company. The entity then invests the insurance "float" in various interests to secure a return. If strict underwriting standards are adhered to, float can serve as a source of cost-free or even profitable leverage. Sound like a good idea? I can't take credit for it. This is the model Berkshire Hathaway (warren buffett's holding company) has employed for decades and it flat out works.
You can't do that in New Hampshire. And really, you shouldn't do it anyway. It's fraudulent. Those premiums aren't a petty slush fund to play with. And of course, insurance companies. The more premiums you write, provided they are written with strict-discipline, the more cost-free leverage you have to invest.
There is no such thing as a free lunch. And fraudulent practices like this are why NH adopted such a ridiculously restrictive insurance code. I'm not saying starting an insurance company is cheap either.
By law, a minimum $800,000 cash investment. |
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freestatelaw.com - Get plugged in with what you need to know about New Hampshire law and legislative efforts.
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John Edward Mercier
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Much more simple to just start an investment club.
If it does well... it will grow.
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John Edward Mercier
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Gold and silver do not increase in value. They are extremely stable, and have roughly the same purchasing power, now, that they did a century ago. They're a hedge against losses, but they are not an investment (other than "paper gold" and such, at which point you might just be investing in any of the other fiat currencies).
Joe I agree with this. Gold and silver do not earn a return on capital and therefore really aren't investments. In my view, gold and silver are free market money much like the way dollars and coins are statist money. You completely missed his point. |
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Vince112
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You can't do that in New Hampshire. And really, you shouldn't do it anyway. It's fraudulent. Those premiums aren't a petty slush fund to play with. Every insurance and re-insurance company I know of invests its float. This includes General Re, Geico, AllState, Aflac etc. I'm not sure why you think its fraudulent. There is no such thing as a free lunch. And fraudulent practices like this are why NH adopted such a ridiculously restrictive insurance code.
Of course there is no such thing as a free lunch and I didn't make that claim. I'm again deeply puzzled by your assertion that investing premiums is fraudulent. Do you have any experience in the insurance industry? Give me an example of one notable insurance company that does not invest its float. By law, a minimum $800,000 cash investment. Can you show me this law? This seems absurd. |
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« Last Edit: September 01, 2011, 06:10:38 pm by Vince112 »
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Vince112
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You completely missed his point. Could you elaborate? |
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John Edward Mercier
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From an investment standpoint , they're a commodity used to protect against inflation.
Though I don't agree with them being at all effective in such. The ratio between gold-silver being wider than historical.
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