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Topic: Should children get the freedom of religion? (Read 17602 times)
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Jeff LaGrange
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ty for the interesting replies that I can't wait to do battle with.
Always so combative... when I do get around to replying, I will be do it in the voice of 'nice' and non-combative, just for you (this one time :p ) I'm not sure if this post reeks of post coitus or looks like foreplay. |
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"No nation however powerful, any more than an individual, can be unjust with impunity. Sooner or later, public opinion, an instrument merely moral in the beginning, will find occasion physically to inflict its sentences on the unjust... The lesson is useful to the weak as well as the strong." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1804.
"It is the trade of lawyers to question everything, yield nothing, and talk by the hour." - Thomas Jefferson
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
Thomas Jefferson
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B.D. Ross
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ty for the interesting replies that I can't wait to do battle with.
Always so combative... when I do get around to replying, I will be do it in the voice of 'nice' and non-combative, just for you (this one time :p ) I'm not sure if this post reeks of post coitus or looks like foreplay. Meeeh, she's been goin' on about this John Adams crap for months.  |
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BagOfEyebrows
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ty for the interesting replies that I can't wait to do battle with.
Always so combative... when I do get around to replying, I will be do it in the voice of 'nice' and non-combative, just for you (this one time :p ) I'm not sure if this post reeks of post coitus or looks like foreplay.  And here I was thinkin' I was just tryin' to get to the non-sexual discussion! |
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BagOfEyebrows
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Meeeh, she's been goin' on about this John Adams crap for months. That's kinda not a nice way to refer to the works of the man who made your field of work official here in the nation.  And I haven't been going on about it for months... it's been YEARS. You just don't pay attention. :p |
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Uncle Walt
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... America has become more and more theocratic since alot of parents pushed religion onto their children.
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What do you all think?
I think I need proof of this statement, since I don't see it. If anything, I see more "attacks" on organized religion - at least in the media and gov't schools. Of course, if you're going to talk about "freedoms" children should have ... why not "freedom of speech"? Aren't more children punished for "mouthing off" to their parents, than for rejecting their parents' religious choices? How many parents censor what their children read, watch, play? |
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« Last Edit: May 10, 2010, 11:06:15 am by Uncle Walt »
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John Edward Mercier
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I don't see how Adams made the legal profession here in the US.
Nor do I see how one can equate an attack on organized religion coming from gov't schools... since they're not allowed to be involved with organized religion.
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BagOfEyebrows
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I don't see how Adams made the legal profession here in the US.
Nor do I see how one can equate an attack on organized religion coming from gov't schools... since they're not allowed to be involved with organized religion.
Mr. Mercier, John Adams founded the first bar association (in Boston, Massachusetts) - it is a non-governmental agency (IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THIS!) Keep in mind, prior to 1776 (re: Declaration of Independence), the system of law John was in was one under the authority/laws/etc. of England - once independence was declared, John worked hard to fix the bugs in the system of law (there were many) to establish it not as the 'rule of law' for the people (as the founders, most of them, anyway, were trying to let people self-govern, and also desired freedom of religion be a key part of this), but as a privilege. The only 'laws' people needed to self-govern, John recognized, were that of lawful (or "moral", depending on what word one chooses to use) acknowledgement of key "rights" - as individuals and in their interactions with each other, re: not lying, cheating, stealing, breaking promises, killing/murdering - to do any of those things was an infringement on an individual's rights to life, liberty and/or property - John set those laws as the starting point/origin of liberty - the rights came after an acknowledgement that one would NOT infringe on another man's rights (re: that one would be lawful/moral with their fellow man - respect THEIR rights as much as they respected their OWN rights.) Again - we really should go over the Constitution of Massachusetts - sentence by sentence. He was super-wordy (more than even I am, seriously.) And very poetic, really (more than even I am, seriously.) And many people thought he was nuts! (um... probably not more than even I am, though.) Also - I agree with Uncle Walt. Religion is getting the hardcore shaft in public and even private, religious schools - it is an OUTRAGE in a land that professes to be founded upon freedom of religion. I've ranted numerous times and given specific examples - one of which was Catholic private schools not being 'allowed' to teach the 10 Commandments if they wanted to be accredited! What in the heck is THAT all about?! That the Catholic schools even RELENTED and AGREED to that type of BLACKMAIL upon their own Creator/God and his laws is part of why I hold NO SHOCK anymore that the Catholic church has a Pope pushing for global socialism - the Catholic leaders, all of them, who are responsible for trading their own God and his laws for some school profit and a title of accreditation smacks in the face of all that is holy - the Catholics should be revolting at this point (not the leaders, the FLOCK!) |
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Uncle Walt
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Nor do I see how one can equate an attack on organized religion coming from gov't schools... since they're not allowed to be involved with organized religion.
I was answering the OP's statement that America is becoming "more theocratic". I do not see this. Instead, I see/hear constantly about schools banning religious displays of any sort. Well, unless they are trying to be politically correct by teaching Islam. But that is about the political climate of the moment, and not about religion. When a school takes a "zero tolerance" policy towards personal displays of belief ... EG; displaying religious messages or symbols on personal clothing, or having an opening prayer during a voluntary event ... that is an attack on religion. |
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B.D. Ross
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When a school takes a "zero tolerance" policy towards personal displays of belief ... EG; displaying religious messages or symbols on personal clothing, or having an opening prayer during a voluntary event ... that is an attack on religion.
Despite what some believe from listening to the news, generally, they don't. Why, they lawfully cannot. Though administrators--being flawed human beings--sometimes screw up. |
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« Last Edit: May 10, 2010, 08:29:42 pm by B.D. Ross »
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John Edward Mercier
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BOE, John Adams didn't believe in self-governance, any more than you do. He believed people should obey collective desires... especially when those collective desires matched his own. The Bar Association wasn't necessary for the legal field.
Uncle Walt, Most gov't schools that choose to ban religious displays do so because they are subject to equal protection. And if the school is sponsoring/hosting the voluntary event... its usually subject to a lot of restrictions.
But I think that much of that is dependent on the individual State constitutions... and municipal regulation.
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John Edward Mercier
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... America has become more and more theocratic since alot of parents pushed religion onto their children.
...
What do you all think?
I think I need proof of this statement, since I don't see it. If anything, I see more "attacks" on organized religion - at least in the media and gov't schools. Of course, if you're going to talk about "freedoms" children should have ... why not "freedom of speech"? Aren't more children punished for "mouthing off" to their parents, than for rejecting their parents' religious choices? How many parents censor what their children read, watch, play? That would fall under the fake assumption of parental rights.... rather than parental authority. |
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WendellBerry
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I hold NO SHOCK anymore that the Catholic church has a Pope pushing for global socialism The Pope's have repeatedly condemned "global socialism" and endorsed "distributism". |
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Pat McCotter
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I hold NO SHOCK anymore that the Catholic church has a Pope pushing for global socialism The Pope's have repeatedly condemned "global socialism" and endorsed "distributism". "Too much capitalism does not mean too many capitalists, but too few capitalists." G. K. Chesterton |
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Visualize Whirled Peas
Give Pizza Chance
I think it's wrong that only one company makes the game Monopoly. - Steven Wright
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WendellBerry
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I hold NO SHOCK anymore that the Catholic church has a Pope pushing for global socialism The Pope's have repeatedly condemned "global socialism" and endorsed "distributism". "Too much capitalism does not mean too many capitalists, but too few capitalists." G. K. Chesterton Unfortunately the terms capitalism and socialism have been completely and utterly destroyed of meaning. What Chesterton condemned was labor being separated from the ownership of capital. You can't exactly call it socialism and you can't call it capitalism - so they called it "distributism". The means of production (capital) should be distributed as far and wide as possible and should not be able to command labor. |
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Pat McCotter
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And the problem I have with that is the coercion necessary to force businesses to stay below a certain size.
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Visualize Whirled Peas
Give Pizza Chance
I think it's wrong that only one company makes the game Monopoly. - Steven Wright
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