Free State Project Forum
269077 Posts in 21909 Topics by 36094 Members / Latest Member: CHall
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
April 23, 2014, 07:36:15 am

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search

Join the FSP

POSTING GUIDELINES and ADVICE FOR NEW MEMBERS

NOTICE: The forum will be down for maintenance beginning at 7PM (NH time) this evening. It should be up again by 9PM. Please forgive the inconvenience and feel free to e-mail arick@freestateproject.org if you have any questions or support requests.

+  Free State Project Forum
|-+  Politics and Philosophy
| |-+  General Political Discussion
| | |-+  Public Nudity (or, regulating public spaces)
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2]  Go Down Print
Author Topic: Public Nudity (or, regulating public spaces)  (Read 6325 times)
honza928
FSP Participant
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 17


Libertarian.


WWW

Ignore
Re:Public Nudity (or, regulating public spaces)
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2004, 11:42:50 am »

Provided they don't infringe on OTHERS' rights to person and property, why should ANYBODY in a libertarian society GIVE a motherfucking shit what they do??

Is there any logical reason, why anybody in a libertarian society should be allowed to take anything (e.g. land) from any peaceful private owner against his will and take control of it, except self-defence?

I haven't found any single reason in my whole life. (Well, lets discuss earthquakes, train explosions, WTC collapses, large fires and such extreme situations, where I might admit, that saving life is worth stealing tools from my neighbors garrage or using his phone without his permission. I still have the full responsibility for the damage.)

IF nobody has such right, THEN he cannot delegate it to any entity (company, neighbor, state, mafia, trade unions...).

IF nobody has such right, THEN every piece of land is private and there is no problem with "public nudity", land and water pollution etc.

Is there any rational evidence, that harm has been caused to a person or a child just from seeing a human body? I seriously do not know here, just do not think it has, just a prejudice (I do not want to blame X-tians for this prejudice, they just came to my mind first).
« Last Edit: March 26, 2004, 01:39:21 pm by honza928 » Logged

Fight for your rights.
onenat
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 149


I'm a llama!




Ignore
Re:Public Nudity (or, regulating public spaces)
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2004, 01:47:17 pm »

The only harm that results from seeing a naked body is emotional in nature.  I don't believe there should be legislation based solely on prohibiting emotional harm, since it is such a subjective thing! On the other hand, seeing someone naked could certainly arouse, which by definition is not harm!

As far as property rights in a libertarian society, you'd have the right to do what you wish with your property provided you didn't commit force or fraud against another.  
Logged
Reaper
FSP Participant
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1854


Atheism cures religious terrorism!


WWW

Ignore
Re:Public Nudity (or, regulating public spaces)
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2004, 01:52:55 pm »

The only harm that results from seeing a naked body is emotional in nature.  I don't believe there should be legislation based solely on prohibiting emotional harm, since it is such a subjective thing!

Subjective, exactly.  Rather like the "harm" inflicted on a Hindu by watching a cow slaughtered and butchered.  It's an entirely "learned" response.
Logged

Reaper
Proud member of the FSP's lunatic fringe!

"If we turn from battle because there is little hope of victory, where then would valor be?  Let it ever be the goal that stirs us, not the odds."
rodschmidt
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 362





Ignore
Re:Public Nudity (or, regulating public spaces)
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2004, 07:56:39 am »

Public nudity is not generally illegal.

If you read the statutes you will find a prohibition on public nudity COMBINED WITH intent to sexually arouse oneself or another person.

Intent is difficult to prove, so cops are told to interview any naked people they see, to try to get them to convict themselves.

This is mentioned in an Attorney General Handbook for Peace Officers that I have.
Logged
rodschmidt
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 362





Ignore
Re:Public Nudity (or, regulating public spaces)
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2004, 07:59:54 am »

The only harm that results from seeing a naked body is emotional in nature.  

This question can be rephrased from

   "is nudity harmful?"

to

  "is nudity force?"
« Last Edit: March 27, 2004, 08:09:05 am by rodschmidt » Logged
rodschmidt
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 362





Ignore
Re:Public Nudity (or, regulating public spaces)
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2004, 08:03:29 am »

A similar general question:

   A interacts with B.  The interaction is informational as opposed to physical.  B obsesses about the interaction.  Did A inflict force on B?
Logged
SteveA
FSP Participant
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2899


Freedom - Are you man enough to handle it?




Ignore
Re:Public Nudity (or, regulating public spaces)
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2004, 11:15:43 am »

Quote
Public nudity is not generally illegal.

If you read the statutes you will find a prohibition on public nudity COMBINED WITH intent to sexually arouse oneself or another person.

I heard this also.  An event where women were marching around topless to protest the nudity laws was left alone to protest.

(I know the Europeans are thinking we're all twisted up over nudity - and a customer visiting from England actually asked where he could find some adult entertainment.  He was newly married and was missing his wife Grin)
Logged

"Fruitless, born a thousand times, lies barren.  Unguided inspiration, yields random motion, circumscribed in destination, going nowhere.  Guidance uninspired, always true in facing, stands immobile.  But fixed upon that destination firmly and with inspiration lofted; beget your dreams."
Megaloman84
FSP Participant
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3


I'm a llama!




Ignore
Re:Public Nudity (or, regulating public spaces)
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2004, 08:05:31 am »

Ultimate authority to set permisable rules of conduct for things of this nature should rest with the owners of the property in question.  Since many libertarians are in favor of privatising even the streets, nudists would have to respect the wishes of the street owners.  Since it's their property, keeping people they don't like out is well within their rights.   Even if the streets and sidewalks remained public, going around town nude wouldn't be of much use if there weren't many business establishments that were willing to serve nude individuals.

This whole thing is a funny issue to be spending a lot of time thinking about.  Whether or not public nudity is commonplace would probably be regulated by the social makup of a community.   A very prudish town wouldn't have any problem with having their mores challenged by naked people.  I suspect that dirty looks and harrassment by the residents would be enough to dissuade most infractions. A more open community that doesn't have a problem with it would probably see more public nudity, but then it wouldn't really be a problem for them.  If it really bother you, just be sure to pick where you live carefully.
Logged
penguinsscareme
FSP Participant
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 336

Ain't nobody's business but mine


WWW

Ignore
Re:Public Nudity (or, regulating public spaces)
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2004, 11:23:21 am »


When I was a teenager in the 60's...there was an area of the local lake called "hippy hollow" . (I imagine every community had such an area) If you went there you knew to expect peaceful people floating / sitting about nude and smoking pot/hash/etc. But those same folks who frequented the area (me included) , when making a beer / rolling paper run, did not go to the store without clothes or  with a joint in our mouth. It was called common decency and common respect. It did not require a law...and it did not require  discussion.

I guess the distinction I draw is between self-regulation, as described above, and no regulation.
What exposure to public nudity may do to a person's inner moral fiber -- and I'm thinking here particularly of minors -- is harder to quantify than a an overt act of physical aggression, but it is no less real.
In the jungles of Africa and South America, adult women go topless all the time, and the society suffers no ill effects from it.  Such is not the custom in New Hampshire.  The simple fact is that the Free State may be ready for that some day, but that day is not soon.  In all honesty, I don't think I'm ready for that.  I get totally distracted by a woman in my immediate vicinity if she has nice hair and perfume even if she's fully and appropriately attired.  It may be that the fault is mine; so be it.  I don't mean to suggest we enact laws requiring burkas, that would be just as extreme a measure as allowing public orgies.
Our goal is to work within an already existing culture.  We must give respect to the values and history of New Hampshire.  Public nudity already exists in the Free State.  You can go to some of the rock concerts or offshoot biker rallies in summer where the price of admission is women baring their feminine assets.  These are perfect examples of the self-regulatory practices which will find seamless acceptance into the pre-existing culture.  Show up to a court hearing wearing nothing as a protest against political oppression, though, and we will be demonized, and the fsp will get lynched.
That's just the reality of the situation.  If the fsp were in, I don't know, the hinterlands of Brazil, this would be a non-issue; we'd be discussing whether people should be allowed to practice cicumcision or something.
Logged

Stamp freestateproject.org on your cash!  Stamp & inkpad run less than $10 & it's the single most effective and easy thing you can do for the fsp.  And it's legal, just don't obscure the serial #.  www.currentlabels.com
rodschmidt
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 362





Ignore
Re:Public Nudity (or, regulating public spaces)
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2004, 10:19:44 pm »

In the jungles of Africa and South America, adult women go topless all the time, and the society suffers no ill effects from it.

And in one tribe it is acceptable to be seen defecating but they would die of embarrassment if they were caught eating.

Quote
Show up to a court hearing wearing nothing as a protest against political oppression, though, and we will be demonized, and the fsp will get lynched.

The judges here require attorneys to wear neckties.
Logged
mark
FSP Participant
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1558

A mute, inglorious Milton




Ignore
Re:Public Nudity (or, regulating public spaces)
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2004, 06:23:15 am »

KILL ALL NAKED ANIMALS.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]  Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!