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Author Topic: Climategate & Global Warming is a Hoax news stories  (Read 38080 times)
John Edward Mercier
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Re: Climategate & Global Warming is a Hoax news stories
« Reply #150 on: November 06, 2011, 02:53:15 am »

Because you keep assessing the carbon dioxide can not have a human downside. I consider death a downside.

And while you 'can' have a greater CO2 absorption... this isn't supported by the data.

Um... you do realize that the oxidation of that carbon is releasing stored solar energy?
And what your contemplating, though feasible, doesn't change the science.
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Alex Libman
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Re: Climategate & Global Warming is a Hoax news stories
« Reply #151 on: November 06, 2011, 01:08:29 pm »

I've "assessed" nothing of the sort.  What I did say is that the human contribution to the amount of gases being added to the atmosphere by natural sources is negligible and temporary, and their impact remains to be conclusively proven.

The size of this planet and the volume of its atmosphere are very fast.  Humans do produce CO2, but there are natural processes that absorb it, and human contribution to the absorption elements is a lot more significant and also more permanent.  We irrigate, we fertilize, and we plant.

The burden of proof is on the alarmists to justify the "moral imperative" for the aggression they want to institute to "fight Global Warming", which would have to include fundamental homogenization of international law to severely limit what has historically been the greatest enabler of human liberty and achievement - intergovernmental competition.  Appeals to authority and popularity do not constitute proof!  Alleged global consequences of human activity have not been monitored with sufficient accuracy, other factors have not been sufficiently understood to be excluded, etc.  The political motivations of the alarmists are clear, the actual climate evidence is not.  
« Last Edit: November 06, 2011, 02:25:20 pm by Alex Libman » Logged

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Re: Climategate & Global Warming is a Hoax news stories
« Reply #152 on: November 06, 2011, 02:10:29 pm »

Because you keep assessing the carbon dioxide can not have a human downside. I consider death a downside.

What are the present levels of atmospheric CO2?
At what levels do humans die from CO2 poisoning?
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Alex Libman
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Re: Climategate & Global Warming is a Hoax news stories
« Reply #153 on: November 22, 2011, 05:47:13 pm »

From Slashdot -- New Batch of Leaked Climate Emails --

Quote
Someone going by the alias "foia" has dropped a link to a zip file containing thousands more emails similar to those released in 2009.  There are apparently many more which are locked behind a password, presumably waiting to be released at some time in the future.

The University of East Anglia has released a brief statement indicating that the emails were probably obtained during the 2009 breach and held back until now as "a carefully-timed attempt to reignite controversy".


Get it via BitTorrent, or via magnet URL:

Code:
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:0a5a90a251229dcf810c07401df624edb2d8f659&dn=Climategate+2+/+Climategate+II+/+FOIA2011+/+FOIA+2011&tr=http://conspiracyhub.com/hub&tr=http://onebigtorrent.org/announce&tr=http://tracker.istole.it/announce&tr=http://tracker.openbittorrent.com:80/announce&tr=http://tracker.publicbt.com:80/announce&tr=http://tracker.thepiratebay.org/announce&tr=udp://tracker.ccc.de:80&tr=udp://tracker.openbittorrent.com:80&tr=udp://tracker.publicbt.com:80


(EDIT: changed torrent link to a faster one.)
« Last Edit: November 24, 2011, 02:04:38 am by Alex Libman » Logged

John Edward Mercier
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Re: Climategate & Global Warming is a Hoax news stories
« Reply #154 on: November 22, 2011, 05:56:37 pm »

Because you keep assessing the carbon dioxide can not have a human downside. I consider death a downside.

What are the present levels of atmospheric CO2?
At what levels do humans die from CO2 poisoning?
Not even close... but like suggesting that falling below 200ppm would have no downside.
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John Edward Mercier
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Re: Climategate & Global Warming is a Hoax news stories
« Reply #155 on: November 22, 2011, 05:59:13 pm »

I've "assessed" nothing of the sort.  What I did say is that the human contribution to the amount of gases being added to the atmosphere by natural sources is negligible and temporary, and their impact remains to be conclusively proven.

The size of this planet and the volume of its atmosphere are very fast.  Humans do produce CO2, but there are natural processes that absorb it, and human contribution to the absorption elements is a lot more significant and also more permanent.  We irrigate, we fertilize, and we plant.

The burden of proof is on the alarmists to justify the "moral imperative" for the aggression they want to institute to "fight Global Warming", which would have to include fundamental homogenization of international law to severely limit what has historically been the greatest enabler of human liberty and achievement - intergovernmental competition.  Appeals to authority and popularity do not constitute proof!  Alleged global consequences of human activity have not been monitored with sufficient accuracy, other factors have not been sufficiently understood to be excluded, etc.  The political motivations of the alarmists are clear, the actual climate evidence is not.  

Whoaa... temporary how? If we're doing so much to create absorption... then why is the level rising? And why would non-anthropogenic carbon dioxide have any more (or less) of an 'impact'? And since when are 'alarmists' the same as 'scientists'?
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Alex Libman
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Re: Climategate & Global Warming is a Hoax news stories
« Reply #156 on: November 22, 2011, 06:13:49 pm »

More reading comprehension failure from Little JEMmy...

I'm talking about the future, the same timeline that the alarmists use to predict their doomsday scenarios.

I've already explained why humanity's use of hydrocarbons is inevitably temporary in the grand scheme of things, given the obvious economical advantages of space-based energy production, and eventually space-based manufacturing and mining.  At the same time the number of plants added by humanity through irrigating the deserts, building floating farms, ever-more-dense greenhouse farms (that can also act as CO2 sinks), etc will continue to increase.  Even meat production will probably decline in favor of cheaper / healthier artificial meats that don't fart so much.  Water levels might actually decline if we build enough artificial lakes and canals!

"Alarmists" are individuals, regardless of their educational background, who are biased toward overstating weather-related conclusions and risks, while completely ignoring the dangers of regulations (i.e. economic stagnation) and unchecked universal government force...
« Last Edit: November 22, 2011, 06:16:23 pm by Alex Libman » Logged

John Edward Mercier
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Re: Climategate & Global Warming is a Hoax news stories
« Reply #157 on: November 24, 2011, 01:30:10 am »

You fail to explain why CO2 levels are rising, even with all this extra absorbtion... and keep establishing some distant belief in that which may never come (the same basis for the alarmists).

Its not my reading comprehension... its your desire to sidestep.
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Alex Libman
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Re: Climategate & Global Warming is a Hoax news stories
« Reply #158 on: November 24, 2011, 01:57:55 am »

**facepalm**

Re-read everything I wrote on this thread 100 times before you post here again.
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Alex Libman
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Re: Climategate & Global Warming is a Hoax news stories
« Reply #159 on: November 25, 2011, 02:29:06 am »

From Forbes -- Climategate 2.0: New E-Mails Rock The Global Warming Debate --

Quote
A new batch of 5,000 e-mails among scientists central to the assertion that humans are causing a global warming crisis were anonymously released to the public yesterday, igniting a new firestorm of controversy nearly two years to the day after similar emails ignited the Climategate scandal.

Three themes are emerging from the newly released emails:  (1) prominent scientists central to the global warming debate are taking measures to conceal rather than disseminate underlying data and discussions;  (2) these scientists view global warming as a political "cause" rather than a balanced scientific inquiry and  (3) many of these scientists frankly admit to each other that much of the science is weak and dependent on deliberate manipulation of facts and data.

Regarding scientific transparency, a defining characteristic of science is the open sharing of scientific data, theories and procedures so that independent parties, and especially skeptics of a particular theory or hypothesis, can replicate and validate asserted experiments or observations.  Emails between Climategate scientists, however, show a concerted effort to hide rather than disseminate underlying evidence and procedures.

"I've been told that IPCC is above national FOI Acts.  One way to cover yourself and all those working in AR5 would be to delete all e-mails at the end of the process", writes Phil Jones, a scientist working with the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), in a newly released e-mail.

"Any work we have done in the past is done on the back of the research grants we get - and has to be well hidden", Jones writes in another newly released email.  "I've discussed this with the main funder (U.S. Dept of Energy) in the past and they are happy about not releasing the original station data."

The original Climategate emails contained similar evidence of destroying information and data that the public would naturally assume would be available according to freedom of information principles. "Mike, can you delete any emails you may have had with Keith re AR4?"  Jones wrote to Penn State University scientist Michael Mann in an email released in Climategate 1.0.  "Keith will do likewise. … We will be getting Caspar to do likewise.  I see that CA claim they discovered the 1945 problem in the Nature paper!!"

The new emails also reveal the scientists' attempts to politicize the debate and advance predetermined outcomes.

"The trick may be to decide on the main message and use that to guid[e] what's included and what is left out" of IPCC reports, writes Jonathan Overpeck, coordinating lead author for the IPCC's most recent climate assessment.

"I gave up on [Georgia Institute of Technology climate professor] Judith Curry a while ago.  I don't know what she thinks she's doing, but its not helping the cause", wrote Mann in another newly released email.

"I have been talking w/ folks in the states about finding an investigative journalist to investigate and expose" skeptical scientist Steve McIntyre, Mann writes in another newly released e-mail.

These new emails add weight to Climategate 1.0 emails revealing efforts to politicize the scientific debate.  For example, Tom Wigley, a scientist at the University Corporation for Atmospheric Research, authored a Climategate 1.0 e-mail asserting that his fellow Climategate scientists "must get rid of" the editor for a peer-reviewed science journal because he published some papers contradicting assertions of a global warming crisis.

More than revealing misconduct and improper motives, the newly released emails additionally reveal frank admissions of the scientific shortcomings of global warming assertions.

"Observations do not show rising temperatures throughout the tropical troposphere unless you accept one single study and approach and discount a wealth of others.  This is just downright dangerous.  We need to communicate the uncertainty and be honest. Phil, hopefully we can find time to discuss these further if necessary", writes Peter Thorne of the UK Met Office.

"I also think the science is being manipulated to put a political spin on it which for all our sakes might not be too clever in the long run", Thorne adds.

"Mike, The Figure you sent is very deceptive … there have been a number of dishonest presentations of model results by individual authors and by IPCC", Wigley acknowledges.

More damaging emails will likely be uncovered during the next few days as observers pour through the 5,000 e-mails.  What is already clear, however, is the need for more objective research and ethical conduct by the scientists at the heart of the IPCC and the global warming discussion.


(Quoted content hyper-linked and edited by me, as usual.)
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John Edward Mercier
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Re: Climategate & Global Warming is a Hoax news stories
« Reply #160 on: November 26, 2011, 01:38:03 am »

I've read tons of things you post...

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