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But that would still signal a religious shift... with maybe some cultural implications. Not a direct fall of civilization.

Quote from: Alex Libman on October 16, 2009, 07:39:14 pm

Steyn's math checks out

But his numbers are completely wrong. Not to speak of his absurd analyses.

Yes, a society that has more people over 70 than under 50 would do just fine... Roll Eyes

Nature should handle that one rather nicely.

Exactly. It starts with an I and ends with a SLAM! Wink

If we try and emulate the baby boom every generation we get over population... much worse than under. reminds me of what my parents told me when we went to pondarosa (a buffet restaurant) you can always get more food, but people get upset when you try and put food back that you don't need.

This solar system alone can support trillions.

Quote from: Alex Libman on October 17, 2009, 03:08:14 am

Yes, a society that has more people over 70 than under 50 would do just fine... Roll Eyes

There's little relationship between the age structure of Europe and Islamic extremism. Nearly 80% of Europeans are currently under age 65. And that Europeans, as a group--and including muslims--are some of the most religiously apathetic individuals on the planet. Nominally religious; but not actually.

The EU contains about half a billion people. The number that are muslim? About 20 million. That's 4% of the population. And not all of these are first generation immigrants. It's generally accurate that within a generation or two, even a high immigrant birth rate declines. Except currently, the birthrate of EU-muslims is lower than the general population's.

Steyn writes that as soon as 11 years from now, 40% of Europe will be muslim. Ludicrous.

Europe will face a problem. A very similar to the one the United States will face. But that has far more to do with caring for an aging population that isn't growing like it was when those social programs were put in place. But pretending that the Muslims-Are-Coming-To-Conquer-Europe is simply fear-mongering and religious zealotry.

Quote from: B.D. Ross on October 17, 2009, 11:40:14 am

There's little relationship between the age structure of Europe and Islamic extremism. Nearly 80% of Europeans are currently under age 65.

All "baby-boomers" are still under age 65. History takes time to play out.

Quote from: B.D. Ross on October 17, 2009, 11:40:14 am

And that Europeans, as a group--and including muslims--are some of the most religiously apathetic individuals on the planet. Nominally religious; but not actually.

That's what Muslims want you to think. Roll Eyes

Quote from: B.D. Ross on October 17, 2009, 11:40:14 am

The EU contains about half a billion people. The number that are muslim? About 20 million. That's 4% of the population. And not all of these are first generation immigrants. It's generally accurate that within a generation or two, even a high immigrant birth rate declines. Except currently, the birthrate of EU-muslims is lower than the general population's. Steyn writes that as soon as 11 years from now, 40% of Europe will be muslim. Ludicrous.

There's a big difference between "EU" and "Europe", especially if you include Turkey, some *stans, etc. Plus conversion rates always accelerate.

And I think he wrote that percentage that of young people will be Muslim, or something like that. Do you have an exact quote?

Quote from: B.D. Ross on October 17, 2009, 11:40:14 am

Europe will face a problem. A very similar to the one the United States will face. But that has far more to do with caring for an aging population that isn't growing like it was when those social programs were put in place. But pretending that the Muslims-Are-Coming-To-Conquer-Europe is simply fear-mongering and religious zealotry.

Yes, that's the point of view I am representing here.

Everybody panic, quick!

PS: any futile young ladies in NH wanna come over and panic with me? Wink

Quote from: Alex Libman on October 17, 2009, 12:01:29 pm

Quote from: B.D. Ross on October 17, 2009, 11:40:14 am

There's little relationship between the age structure of Europe and Islamic extremism. Nearly 80% of Europeans are currently under age 65.

All "baby-boomers" are still under age 65. History takes time to play out.

... rrrright. If it ain't happened yet, it ain't history. It's a prediction. Which can be wrong.

Like the way those damn Irish continue to flood into our ports, displacing and overwhelming those hard-working German immigrants.

Quote from: Alex Libman on October 17, 2009, 12:01:29 pm

There's a big difference between "EU" and "Europe", especially if you include Turkey, some *stans, etc. And I think he wrote that percentage that 40% of young people will be Muslim, or something like that. Do you have an exact quote?

There's a few, but here's one with the "40 percent" figure:

"Europe's problems--its unaffordable social programs, its deathbed demographics, its dependence on immigration numbers that no stable nation (not even America in the Ellis Island era)e has ever successfully absorbed--are all of Europe's making. By some projections, the EU's population will be 40 percent Muslim by 2025. Already, more people each week attend Friday prayers at British mosques than Sunday service at Christian churches--and in a country where Anglican bishops have permanent seats in the national legislature."

When most people speak of Europe, they don't include Turkey etc. which has been predominantly muslim for quite a while. But it's just dishonest to suggest that a growing muslim population will soon infringe upon the British-ness, German-ness, or French-ness of those respective countries. Which is what Steyn has repeatedly warned of.

"But muslim populations in Europe aren't really growing when you compare them to other European groups."

"Oh. Well, you forgot to count Turkey, Azerbaijan, etc."

"Then that doesn't really affect those other countries, does it?"

"Duuuuuuuuu..."

No doubt there has been much tension in many countries with immigrant assimilation. Or, more accurately, immigrant discrimination. But there's hardly a looming crisis of a plurality of Muslims imposing sharia upon the "normal" Europeans.

Quote from: Alex Libman on October 17, 2009, 12:01:29 pm

Quote from: B.D. Ross on October 17, 2009, 11:40:14 am

Yes, that's the point of view I am representing here.

It's not all about you. I was referring to Steyn.