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Topic: For the atheists that lurk in the religion/liberty section of this forum (Read 157607 times)
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B.D. Ross
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I think the similiarities in the history of mankind regarding "God" are because we're born with the knowledge that there is ~Law~...
Plato and Socrates were right; we are born with the coding of law right inside ourselves.
Prove it. |
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freestatelaw.com - Get plugged in with what you need to know about New Hampshire law and legislative efforts.
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John Edward Mercier
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Plato and Socrates were not monotheistic, nor we're they writing of the 10Cs.
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BagOfEyebrows
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I think the similiarities in the history of mankind regarding "God" are because we're born with the knowledge that there is ~Law~...
Plato and Socrates were right; we are born with the coding of law right inside ourselves.
Prove it. You shouldn't post in here unless you want to play. Sir. Do not venture further unless you are in the mood. She turned and walked back towards The Lawyer.
Or The Attorney.
Didn't matter, either way. He had sworn an oath to the Bar Association; not morality, but to 'reason' - not to the freedom of 'ethics', but to a notion that all men must live by the same, exact ethics, in the form of obnoxiously worded "laws", crafted by the reason of 'some', at the expense of ... ALL.
At the expense of freedom - of religion, of peaceful and voluntary transactions. Each step she took, these thoughts went through her head. She heard her footsteps become equivalent to a determined march instead of a gentle stroll in the woods towards a sweet, sweet man... tied to a tree.
Walking up to him, and then sitting down on the ground right in front of his head, she bent herself over and whispered into his ear, "Did you say something?"
"No," he said. "Leave me alone."
"I could have sworn you asked me to... prove it."
"Prove what?" he asked.
"You asked it, not me," she replied.
"Ah, you're hearing voices, aren't you... of course. Dementia. You do know you are just severely mentally ill, right?"
"Oh?" she smiled. "Prove it."
He reached out his right hand, and then smacked her left hand, which was holding her body above his face. Her heart pounded, not sure why he was suddenly making physical contact. She felt the sting of his smack, not on her hand, but on her bum. She smirked.
"Mosquito," he said.
"Oh. Thanks," she replied. "Mr. Ross, have you ever heard of Frances and Richard Lockridge?"
"Who?" he asked.
"Mr. and Mrs. North?" she said, her face and eyes in a dreamy and faraway place, of sorts.
"Who are these people? Am I supposed to know them? Good LORD, woman, you are MAD."
"It's just a fantasy..." she sighed. "Something I can't have in all the ways it was... but maybe..."
"What are you babbling on about now?" Ross said, turning his head for a moment to gaze up at the tree he was attached to, and then at his legs. "Are you here to untie me?"
"No. Not yet. I can't. Someone else put you here to stop you from..."
"Not this again," he said, interruptingly, shutting his eyes. "Please, just go and come back when you are ready to undo all of this, that you have done."
She found it very heartbreaking that he said all of this with his eyes closed.
He felt her lean over and kiss his cheek. Then she got up and walked away.
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« Last Edit: April 03, 2010, 06:15:10 pm by BagOfEyebrows »
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BagOfEyebrows
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Plato and Socrates were not monotheistic, nor we're they writing of the 10Cs.
I never said they were - |
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Ed
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gonna have to agree with BagOfEyebrows here
since the beginning of time, every single person who has done something shitty, when they're doing it, deep in their subconcsious, deep down, way way down in their, there is a little voice that thoroughly understands "hey, what I'm doing is pretty shitty". Oh sure, there were probably some true believers for things like slavery, the world was a brutal place after all, and somebody had to do the farmwork. But even then, they most probably wished that the world weren't that way.
At the very least, even the most ardent thug understands that he wouldn't like to be on the other side of the stick. They only think that they're going to remain stick-holder. They don't get that philosophies have consequences, that the way one acts influences people and affects the world, that you are part of the world whether you like it or not. If they understood that, they wouldn't use the stick, because doing that gives people the idea that it's OK to use the stick, and they might be on the other end one day.
I'm reminded of the story of Boudica, queen of the Celts. At some point or another a Roman official had her flogged and her daughters raped. Later, during the first battle of the Celts' uprising, one of the Roman official's men told him the Celts were attacking and Boudica was their leader. The way the historian described it (this was on the History channel), the Roman official immediately became scared shitless, because he knew what he had done before was way out of line (even back then - he really didn't need to do what he had done to go through the business of taking their land). He fled, but at the next battle he wasn't able to, and he got his. It's very possible the whole uprising could have been avoided if the Roman official had simply annexed the land through the relevant paperwork (the region already belonged to Rome, it was just changing status or something).
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BagOfEyebrows
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gonna have to agree with BagOfEyebrows here
since the beginning of time, every single person who has done something shitty, when they're doing it, deep in their subconcsious, deep down, way way down in their, there is a little voice that thoroughly understands "hey, what I'm doing is pretty shitty". Oh sure, there were probably some true believers for things like slavery, the world was a brutal place after all, and somebody had to do the farmwork. But even then, they most probably wished that the world weren't that way.
At the very least, even the most ardent thug understands that he wouldn't like to be on the other side of the stick. They only think that they're going to remain stick-holder. They don't get that philosophies have consequences, that the way one acts influences people and affects the world, that you are part of the world whether you like it or not. If they understood that, they wouldn't use the stick, because doing that gives people the idea that it's OK to use the stick, and they might be on the other end one day.
I'm reminded of the story of Boudica, queen of the Celts. At some point or another a Roman official had her flogged and her daughters raped. Later, during the first battle of the Celts' uprising, one of the Roman official's men told him the Celts were attacking and Boudica was their leader. The way the historian described it (this was on the History channel), the Roman official immediately became scared shitless, because he knew what he had done before was way out of line (even back then - he really didn't need to do what he had done to go through the business of taking their land). He fled, but at the next battle he wasn't able to, and he got his. It's very possible the whole uprising could have been avoided if the Roman official had simply annexed the land through the relevant paperwork (the region already belonged to Rome, it was just changing status or something).
Hey, thanks, Ed! :O) |
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B.D. Ross
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I think the similiarities in the history of mankind regarding "God" are because we're born with the knowledge that there is ~Law~...
Plato and Socrates were right; we are born with the coding of law right inside ourselves.
Prove it. You shouldn't post in here unless you want to play. Sir. Do not venture further unless you are in the mood. Dammit woman. Lawyers don't swear oaths to bar associations. |
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freestatelaw.com - Get plugged in with what you need to know about New Hampshire law and legislative efforts.
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Ward Griffiths
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I think the similiarities in the history of mankind regarding "God" are because we're born with the knowledge that there is ~Law~...
Plato and Socrates were right; we are born with the coding of law right inside ourselves.
Prove it. You shouldn't post in here unless you want to play. Sir. Do not venture further unless you are in the mood. I don't show up much on the forums lately, fookin' day job and all, but I'll stand with B.D. and say "I'll take your bet, you're gonna regret, 'cause I'm the best that's ever been". Like he said, prove it. Or at least offer plausible evidence. Hearsay from folks thousands of years dead is not plausible evidence, so quoting old writings doesn't do it. Hell, quoting televangelists won't do it unless they're chained up and we have Tasers, I wouldn't take the Word of any of them if they just swore on their mothers' graves). Obviously you haven't had much to do with kids. (I've had as little to do with them as I could manage, I didn't have a vasectomy by accident). If they're born with the slightest ethical sense (never noticed among my nephews, nieces or their spawn), it's buried deep until somebody beats it out of them. Definitely it isn't put there by genetics or G-D or the evidence would be there. |
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-- Ward Griffiths wdg3rd@comcast.netMen will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. (Denis Diderot) |
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BigJoe
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gonna have to agree with BagOfEyebrows here
since the beginning of time, every single person who has done something shitty, when they're doing it, deep in their subconcsious, deep down, way way down in their, there is a little voice that thoroughly understands "hey, what I'm doing is pretty shitty". Oh sure, there were probably some true believers for things like slavery, the world was a brutal place after all, and somebody had to do the farmwork. But even then, they most probably wished that the world weren't that way.
The just man is the freest of anyone from anxiety; but the unjust man is perpetually haunted by it. -Epicurus |
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BagOfEyebrows
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I can't behave in this thread, Ross. Any other thread but this one. Please, please, please. I'll delete what I wrote (just now) if you want. Just don't come in this thread if I will only upset you in here. I'll try not to everywhere else. Deal?
I just can't be leashed up in here - I need to be unrestrained. Especially with you, HEATHEN! :p
My tongue was playing with the top of my mouth as I typed this - good gosh *purrrr* Oh, to see your serious thinker/investigator hat-wearin' animated gif in here again, my heart leapt! I HAVE MISSED YOU! I nearly pressed my face against my own monitor and cuddled my cheek to the letters in your name.
But... I can't behave in here! Don't come in here if you will just end up leaving me without you again! I CAN'T BEHAVE! IN HERE! WITH YOU! *wipes tears from sides of eyes* HEATHEN!
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BagOfEyebrows
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I think the similiarities in the history of mankind regarding "God" are because we're born with the knowledge that there is ~Law~...
Plato and Socrates were right; we are born with the coding of law right inside ourselves.
Prove it. You shouldn't post in here unless you want to play. Sir. Do not venture further unless you are in the mood. Dammit woman. Lawyers don't swear oaths to bar associations. I thought you were gonna be mad at me; please disregard my previous posted appeal. You swear an oath to uphold 'the law' - you swear and sign an oath. |
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BagOfEyebrows
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btw, it's "Damnit, woman." Didn't you go to skool? I thawt they taughted you good gramma - :p
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B.D. Ross
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I thought you were gonna be mad at me; please disregard my previous posted appeal.
--I AM NOT AN ANGRY PERSON. You swear an oath to uphold 'the law' - you swear and sign an oath.
The only oath I've ever sworn as an attorney was... let me find it: "I do solemnly swear that I will at all times demean myself fairly and honorably as an attorney and practitioner at law; that I will bear true allegiance to the State of Maryland, and support the laws and Constitution thereof, and that I will bear true allegiance to the United States, and that I will support, protect and defend the Constitution, laws and government thereof as the supreme law of the land; any law, or ordinance of this or any state to the contrary notwithstanding." Notice the lack of anything involving a bar association. Never signed anything either. But I don't think there's much of a difference between stating it and signing. Not in my book anyway. |
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« Last Edit: April 03, 2010, 08:30:21 pm by B.D. Ross »
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freestatelaw.com - Get plugged in with what you need to know about New Hampshire law and legislative efforts.
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BagOfEyebrows
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I think the similiarities in the history of mankind regarding "God" are because we're born with the knowledge that there is ~Law~...
Plato and Socrates were right; we are born with the coding of law right inside ourselves.
Prove it. You shouldn't post in here unless you want to play. Sir. Do not venture further unless you are in the mood. I don't show up much on the forums lately, fookin' day job and all, but I'll stand with B.D. and say "I'll take your bet, you're gonna regret, 'cause I'm the best that's ever been". Like he said, prove it. Or at least offer plausible evidence. Hearsay from folks thousands of years dead is not plausible evidence, so quoting old writings doesn't do it. Hell, quoting televangelists won't do it unless they're chained up and we have Tasers, I wouldn't take the Word of any of them if they just swore on their mothers' graves). Obviously you haven't had much to do with kids. (I've had as little to do with them as I could manage, I didn't have a vasectomy by accident). If they're born with the slightest ethical sense (never noticed among my nephews, nieces or their spawn), it's buried deep until somebody beats it out of them. Definitely it isn't put there by genetics or G-D or the evidence would be there. What is this, Freakin' Fight Club night? :p The sudden warmth creatin' a sweat in all of you freakin' men that would have you suddenly burst in here just as I was about to get back to the Professor and Julio and the gang? Come to think of it, that's probably why Ross showed up; defending his territory and all - HA! WRONG on the notion that I must not have had much dealings with children - I've had lots to do with kids; I was a volunteer at an orphanage. I practically was the mother (or at least housekeeper) for 4 brothers as I was the only girl. I have three children of my own; I do not doubt or dispute that most (not all) children will tend to try to 'test' the laws - I do not agree the only way to get them to 'obey' them is to beat it into them - the fact is, that we do have a very real 'reaction' to the laws, when we break them, and here's a question: why? Perhaps it's similar to the reaction we get when we climb our first 'really tall tree' - we know we're testing gravity. Knowing the boundries of the laws around us is something mankind has tried forever and a day to comprehend and come to terms with - I say that there most certainly are some laws for human to human interaction, if liberty, freedom and peace are your goals. Stray from the code of peace, use force, or break a law against another person, and things will not go the way of peace - or liberty. Or freedom. I'm trying my hardest to prove it - funny a man of law would ask me to prove something he, himself, thinks there *is* (re: law) and yet he claims to doubt we're born with the capacity to 'figure it out' as his field attempts to do (and charges, by force, the 'cost' of one group of men's *reason* and *laws* upon the whole of mankind, and then applies those attempts, some of them VERY WRONG, upon the whole, in a one-size-fits-all format... how is that moral? How is that FREEDOM? How is that liberty?) There are only a few laws one needs to self-govern by - the details should be left up to the self-governing, the 'reasoning' should not be put into the hands or minds of one group of men - probably the only thing I disagree with Socrates on... mankind should NOT be 'ruled' by philosophers... our "best and brightest" thinkers don't always get it right. Sometimes the *right way* is in the wisdom of those 'unkempt masses' that cling to guns and/or bibles, sometimes it is in those 'uneducated' hillbillies that live like vagabonds and in simplicity in souped up trailer homes and on homecooked beans, sometimes it's some millionaire on a sailboat doing a 'round the world' ocean jaunt who has the 'right' idea - only to come ashore to mankind's hostilities and violent 'laws' against him. Philosophy is not one-size-fits-all ... who is to say we couldn't coexist with each other, each by their own peaceful philosophy? If we just always held up things to the same, simple code, perhaps we would conclude a lot faster that most 'differences of opinions' or 'difference of ethics' in no way, shape or from infringe upon us and our "rights" - nor our own philosophy and/or highest order/supreme laws/religion/whatever. I think it's great you came in to defend and side with Ross - gosh knows this Fight Club could use a little tag-teaming. I'm picturing you both in purple shorts and white 'wife beater' tshirts. I've got Ed on my shoulders, and he's got on nicely-stringed boxing gloves, and I'm wearing my red moon boots (and nothing else), and I'm loudly singing this song (while glaring at Ross): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWCMhL5qxlE |
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« Last Edit: April 04, 2010, 03:55:42 pm by BagOfEyebrows »
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BagOfEyebrows
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I thought you were gonna be mad at me; please disregard my previous posted appeal.
--I AM NOT AN ANGRY PERSON. You swear an oath to uphold 'the law' - you swear and sign an oath.
The only oath I've ever sworn as an attorney was... let me find it: "I do solemnly swear that I will at all times demean myself fairly and honorably as an attorney and practitioner at law; that I will bear true allegiance to the State of Maryland, and support the laws and Constitution thereof, and that I will bear true allegiance to the United States, and that I will support, protect and defend the Constitution, laws and government thereof as the supreme law of the land; any law, or ordinance of this or any state to the contrary notwithstanding." Notice the lack of anything involving a bar association. Never signed anything either. But I don't think there's much of a difference between stating it and signing. Not in my book anyway. ah, okay - so it is an attorney and not a lawyer. Do you know what lawyers swear an oath to? (btw - the term "practicioner of law" cracks me up every time I see it... like none of us 'out here' are... practicioners of it.  ) |
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