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Author Topic: Nothing is true, Everything is permitted!  (Read 97321 times)
Drew23
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Nothing is true, Everything is permitted!
« on: November 28, 2006, 11:11:56 am »

Nothing is true, Everything is permitted!

Does this statement bother you? If so you probably dogmatically hold on to you beliefs, and reject absolute liberty. I find the statement liberating. For me the statement says, "don't hold on to your beliefs and we are all absolutely free.

Does this seem naive? I don't think the statement is naive, but I do think is worth meditating on the implications the statement holds.
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Transition_Force
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Re: Nothing is true, Everything is permitted!
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2006, 07:19:52 pm »

The statement is equally dangerous to liberty

Nothing is true = you have no rights
Everything is permitted = go ahead, plunder, steal, rape, murder, it doesn't matter!
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Cyro
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Re: Nothing is true, Everything is permitted!
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2006, 09:22:24 pm »

It's just an extention of the normal anarcho-capitalist perversion.

Anarchy equates to Chaos after all.  Roll Eyes
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Mans nature, does not befit equality. It is the stagnation of thought and the fear of progression.
braddogg
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Re: Nothing is true, Everything is permitted!
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2006, 04:02:52 pm »

Nothing is true, Everything is permitted!

Does this statement bother you? If so you probably dogmatically hold on to you beliefs, and reject absolute liberty. I find the statement liberating. For me the statement says, "don't hold on to your beliefs and we are all absolutely free.

Does this seem naive? I don't think the statement is naive, but I do think is worth meditating on the implications the statement holds.

The saying is self-contradictory.  If nothing is true, then how can the statement that nothing is true be true?  It's impossible to say nothing is true.  It's like saying you want to play with your square ball -- no, you want to play with your cube, because "square ball" is self-contradictory.

I certainly appreciate the sentiment, and I agree that people use "morality" to argue stupid points.  Growing up, we were all beaten over the head with the argument from morality from teachers, parents, clergymen, and politicians.  But, I don't think the solution is total moral relativism.
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Forastero
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Re: Nothing is true, Everything is permitted!
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2006, 06:04:54 pm »

Please....no more of this stupid new age garbage. Does an objective morality exist? I dont know. Although I dont think Christians or anyone else has a monolply on morality, it also doesnt mean that "everything is true, nothing is wrong!" type garbage.
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dj2007
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Re: Nothing is true, Everything is permitted!
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2007, 08:18:45 pm »

"Nothing is true, Everything is permitted!"

This is when, in real life, I'd give you a kick in the shin. You'd protest, and I'd say it isn't really true that I kicked you because nothing is really true, and that anyway, who are you to judge my kicking you, since everything is permitted.

At that point, you'd either say something snide and walk off (if you were smaller than me or had a cool temperament) or punch me in the face (if you were bigger than me or had a hot temperament).

Where as, had we both believed in an reality such that it is either true that I kicked your or isn't true, and believed that evidence can help us tell the difference (evidence like your red shin, my remembering kicking you), and had we both believed that going around kicking people without reason other than powerlust is bad, we'd probably have been able to use our time more productively than by engaging in violence and exchanging snide remarks.

In other words, maybe it isn't possible to know everything in the universe with absolute certainty, and maybe there isn't anyone who'll roast me in hell for ignoring certain absolute prohibitions, but that doesn't mean reality and ethics fly out the window.

See also: iterated prisoner's dilemma.

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apotheosis23
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Re: Nothing is true, Everything is permitted!
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2009, 01:42:33 pm »

The term "nothing is true, everything is permitted" is purposefully deceptive.  It is not referring to some political statement, but rather to the state of the universe.  The past exists as a probability.  It's existence is only solidified by those observing it, or those believing in the chain of events that led to the present.  It is no more solid or real than the future.  The future is manipulated by changing the present, by creating a course of actions that will potentially lead to a desired outcome.  The present may be manipulated by "changing" the past.  By changing one's perspective of the past, you actually change it.  The outcome of course depends on a lot of things including the probability of an event having occurred and also the number of observers.  Quantum physics recognize now what mystics have known for millenia.  The present exists as absolute zero.  Therefore it has no value, it cannot be measured.  Blah blah blah. nothing IS true, everything is permitted.  The present state of the universe is the only one that exists and therefore it is the only thing that is true.  The present cannot be measured or represented, it is an absolute that can only be represented by one thing.  NOTHING.  As above so below.  You cannot change the microcosm without changing the macrocosm.
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mattlambrecht
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Re: Nothing is true, Everything is permitted!
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2009, 05:06:18 pm »

I have a better idea. How about: "Everything that isn't anyone else's business is permitted". Like if I wanna smoke some dank herbs when I get home from work then that's my choice, but if I try to steal your stereo, you can shoot me in the face. Deal?  Cheesy lol I have a very simple ethical philosophy.

And I agree with the guy talking about the implications of quantum theory, but I would hesitate to make all those statements without really understanding quantum theory from a physicists perspective. (Not that I do either, but I'm working on it lol). But personally, I think it's one thing to say that the Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle ensures an inherent randomness based on various waves of probabilities of tendencies for packets of energy to exist within regions of space-time at the quantum level of observation, and a whole other thing to say that "Nothing is true". I mean its kind of true, but I kind of lean towards the Copenhagen idea that there isn't really a deep reality to be dealt with. Quantum theory is inherently limited by our minds ability to comprehend the nature of reality. Although, I do have some ideas (as opposed to beliefs), that conciousness is the underlying binding factor in the space-time continuum and that our thoughts influence entropy and extropy based on their negativity or positivity, which permeates different layers of reality, VIA the Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle. So in that case, I do agree with all those conclusions, but also that certain states of mind cause certain things (whether or not through some seemingly magical manipulation of matter with mind, at least through our actions and words), and therefore we have a very basic personal moral responsibility to cultivate loving and peaceful mind states rather than hatred and oppression.
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nick888
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Re: Nothing is true, Everything is permitted!
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2009, 10:44:59 am »

Why don't you think about it like that: Supposing EVERY statement after the "nothing is true" clause is really NOT true, then the "everything is permitted" clause is NOT true as well... That makes it a "Nothing is permitted" clause!! (Well you don't really know, since "nothing is true" could be "not true" itself..!)
« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 10:48:24 am by nick888 » Logged
creaganlios
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Re: Nothing is true, Everything is permitted!
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2009, 12:11:52 pm »

If nothing is true, and everything is permitted, on what grounds could you say:

"Forcible sex with a 5 year old is wrong?"

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idkiduk
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Re: Nothing is true, Everything is permitted!
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2009, 04:54:40 am »

 I think by true, the quote doesn't mean real, but pure. As in true gold for example. Nothing is absolute, pure, solid, there is not black and white, there's just shades of grey. I would change the quote to nothing is absolute, everything is permitted.. but then again I'm not the one who said it so I don't have that power.

 I personally find it an escape for something I realised a long time ago. Allot of people live their lives inside the confines of their reality. Somehow thinking that stepping out of it will result in eternal damnation or arrest, or being frowned upon. But only by getting past that can we reach our full potential. A couple of examples:  Christopher McCandless! Graduated high school top of his class, two very successfull parents, sister... one day gave away his $25,000, burnt all the money in his wallet and dissapeared. Hiked all up and down the country for two years before, unfotuanately, dying in Alaska.
 Hitler... well we all know that story... but look at Germany now and then, even though the cost was great, it's a much better place because of it! Possibly the world's a better place because of it! Maybe not the best of examples, but the fact is they're remembered! They have had amazing, completely unique experiences! Fact is, unless you step out of the "truth" IE: wealth, family, status, reputation, religion, inhibitions, fears and on and on...  you will NOT be remembered! and 50 years after you're lain to rest, no one will visit your grave, and no one will remember those realy nice pies you used to make................
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lloydbob1
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Re: Nothing is true, Everything is permitted!
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2009, 07:28:05 am »

Why give this a minutes thought?
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crimsonshadow
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Re: Nothing is true, Everything is permitted!
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2009, 01:33:23 am »

The thing about this is it doesn't mean you are free do do as you please, simply, do not take things as they appear, the world can be a very tricky place, smoke and mirrors, be wise, not free to do whatever you want. Everything is permitted, whatever you need to do to keep yourself safe and in that time, protect the brotherhood, you would do. Because in the end you went to God. Don't believe it means you can rape and murder, accept it as a way to be free of any sort of boundary of yourself. If you want to run, run, if you want to free-run, free-run, if you want to wrestle, wrestle. Etc.
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WendellBerry
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Re: Nothing is true, Everything is permitted!
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2009, 09:38:11 am »

Quote
two very successful parents

How do you define success?

The reason for this person's wanderlust WAS his parents...
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newtimer
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Re: Nothing is true, Everything is permitted!
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2010, 02:39:16 pm »

Nothing is true, Everything is permitted!

Is that true?

Is it true that nothing is true?

Is it the true that everything is permitted? I think people who are in jail would disagree with that. And the people who are entirely sure that they can develop "free electricity machines" but never do.

What I'm getting at is the only possible way of proving that statement to be true is to prove it false, since its a self-contradiction. Therefore, the statement "nothing is true" is false.

(For some reason this is post is high on Google and getting traffic so I thought I'd feed the fire.)
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