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Topic: NH Secession #2 to secede or not to secede (Read 23333 times)
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David Wolfe
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When they declared their independence, they had not set up a new government. They just wanted the old one gone.
We already have a government in NH ..... at least as much if not more than the colonies had during the revolution. We have too much government here.
Who says we need a government in place or to replace the Feds? I would prefer none.
Actually, the Continental Congress had held multiple sessions before the Declaration of Independence and the individual states had legislatures which provided continuity between the colonial governments and the new state governments. The secession was led by insiders. John Adams was a successful lawyer. Benjamin Franklin was one of the richest and most celebrated men in America. George Washington was one of the biggest land owners in Virginia. The revolution was at no point anarchist. I think we'd have a lot fewer than 7,000 people right now if we supported secession and anarchy. I know we'd have at least one less. |
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lloydbob1
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It shouldn't be any surprise to anyone who has paid attention to the FSP for any length of time that some members are anarchists and some are not.
We will never know if any of the founding fathers were Anarchists, just as we'll never know if any of them were Athiests, as they wrote and preached the politically correct words of their day, because, they had something to sell. What they we're selling was radical enough and a distinct improvement over anything existing at that time.
However, what we have now is far worse than the benign neglect and ridiculously low taxes that were suffered under that king George.
I can understand why many want to go after the federal beast. I also understand why many want to persue the, ostensibly, more doable task of freeing NH, which was the original plan. I don't understand why many who post here don't, just, do what they want to do and stop commenting on the others.
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David Wolfe
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However, what we have now is far worse than the benign neglect and ridiculously low taxes that were suffered under that king George.
Agreed. I don't understand why many who post here don't, just, do what they want to do and stop commenting on the others.
Well, that is the point of the forum, isn't it? If you don't want to read my comments feel free to skip them. Also, there is the problem of guilt by association. Remember during Alito's nomination hearing when the Democrats brought up his membership in a Princeton alumni group which contained a few members that said a few crazy things? Wouldn't it be a shame if one of us were on the cusp of reaching a position of real power then the words and actions of a few members was used against him or her? |
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lloydbob1
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I thought the point of a forum is to propose ideas. I wouldn't hang out in this quadrant of the philosophical sphere is I recognised the concept of guilt by association.
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freedom's ideologue
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I think we'd have a lot fewer than 7,000 people right now if we supported secession and anarchy. I know we'd have at least one less. Independence and anarchy are two completely separate beliefs. You are unfairly linking the two. I for one support independence, but am not an anarchist. I think we'd have a lot fewer than 7,000 people right now if we forbade protesting the fedgov. If the FSP was merely about school boards and selectmen, I know we'd have at least one less |
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We've made too many compromises already; too many retreats. They invade our space and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far, no further! And I will make them pay for what they've done. - Jean Luc Picard
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freedom's ideologue
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just wanted to change the topic name to something more "fun".  |
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We've made too many compromises already; too many retreats. They invade our space and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far, no further! And I will make them pay for what they've done. - Jean Luc Picard
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David Wolfe
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Independence and anarchy are two completely separate beliefs. You are unfairly linking the two.
I didn't mean to link them as similar beliefs, just as beliefs that will have similar effects on this organization if they are embraced. I think we'd have a lot fewer than 7,000 people right now if we forbade protesting the fedgov.
Who's suggested that? My opinion is protests should be about issues and conducted in such a way that will increase our support even if protesting about other issues and acting in another way is more emotionally satisfying. If the FSP was merely about school boards and selectmen, I know we'd have at least one less
Granted, school boards and selectmen are smallball, but so is ranting on a corner. Serving on a school board or as a selectman could be a stepping stone to a higher office. What is ranting on a corner a stepping stone towards? |
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Russell Kanning
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Granted, school boards and selectmen are smallball, but so is ranting on a corner. Serving on a school board or as a selectman could be a stepping stone to a higher office. What is ranting on a corner a stepping stone towards?
I will never participate in government, so what should I do to set people free? Stepping stones to higher office are uses of force that I cannot agree with. Which one of us was advocating ranting on a corner? |
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Russell Kanning
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Since when was anarchy equated with ranting on the streetcorners?
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freedom's ideologue
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Folks, I hate ranting on the street corner as much as the next guy, but I will be ranting on the circle here in about 20 minutes. My little way of doing absolutely nothing. |
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We've made too many compromises already; too many retreats. They invade our space and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far, no further! And I will make them pay for what they've done. - Jean Luc Picard
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David Wolfe
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I will never participate in government, so what should I do to set people free?
Stepping stones to higher office are uses of force that I cannot agree with.
Good question. Government is the source of our problems. If you refuse to participate in it how do you expect to change it? I guess it's not impossible, but definitely more difficult. Which one of us was advocating ranting on a corner?
No one. Just a little hyperbole similar to the school board and selectmen comment. I can see how that could be offensive to someone who's actually doing effective protests though. I apologize. Since when was anarchy equated with ranting on the streetcorners?
What are anarchists doing that's more effective? |
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amonstertrucker
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Had to comment on this thread. Secession sounds like a great thing at first, but it should not even be on the table right now. I would think the top priority is to make NH as free from government tyranny as possible. It's alot better than most other states from what I gather, but it still can use improvements. The main point is to make government as minimal as possible without creating anarchy I'm guessing. You have to have laws, and ways to enforce them to keep unscrupulous people doing damage to the honest ones. Once NH has become the equivalent of a libertarian utopia (or close to it  then we could focus on how the Federal government is usurping the power (and money) of the state/people of NH. I could think of a few things, for instance, I know that DC basically coerces states into doing it's bidding by threating the loss of federal funds. For instance, drinking age laws, speed limit laws, seatbelt laws, subsides and the list goes on and on. NH needs to ween itself completely off of any funds (and the attached strings) that would come from DC. The next step would be taxes. *cringe!* At this point, NH would be able to argue that the state is self sufficient with the exception of national defense, post office, and a few other Constitutionally provided for services from the District of Corruption, and we see no justification for the amount of funds leaving the state for all the other pork barrel and deficit spending by congress and the president and then go from there. If the state made a big enough fuss about it, and other states took notice, it might start things in the right direction. If not, then secession would definitely be a viable option. Just my 2 cents. |
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freedom's ideologue
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At this point, NH would be able to argue that the state is self sufficient with the exception of national defense, post office, and a few other Constitutionally provided for services from the District of Corruption, and we see no justification for the amount of funds leaving the state for all the other pork barrel and deficit spending by congress and the president and then go from there. New Hampshire can already argue that. We already are only getting 83 cents back for every dollar we give (of funds appropriated for the states.) So NH would get a net benefit by withdrawing from those programs and allowing their citizens to deduct that amount from their taxes. Fedgov is really only supposed to do a couple things, and it botches even those. Its supposed to provide military defense. But actually, by its aggressive foreign policy, it makes war MORE LIKELY. Its supposed to provide a stable, specie-based currency. And yet the federal reserve notes are a joke - based only on the "faith and credit of the US" - faith and credit which we are sqandering by running up unprecedented budget deficits. Thus, fedgov has failed on its two most important tasks. I feel safe in saying that FEDGOV, therefore, is a parasite that the citizens of NH would be better without. Caleb (just as an FYI, the post office is not supported by tax dollars. It funds itself fully by user fees) |
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We've made too many compromises already; too many retreats. They invade our space and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far, no further! And I will make them pay for what they've done. - Jean Luc Picard
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Russell Kanning
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What are anarchists doing that's more effective?
Not paying taxes to fund their oppressors. How has it been working out begging the government not to oppress you or having "good" people run for office? |
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David Wolfe
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How has it been working out begging the government not to oppress you or having "good" people run for office?
Not well. That's why we're trying to increase our numbers then concentrate in NH. |
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