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Author Topic: Libertarian Women  (Read 16173 times)
jeanius
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Libertarian Women
« on: June 20, 2005, 05:43:34 pm »

Libertarian Women
« Last Edit: August 11, 2006, 11:27:33 am by Jean » Logged
Simon Jester
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Re: Libertarian Women
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2005, 02:22:41 pm »

I've noted this problem and it bothers me extremely that most of my sex leans so strongly towards statism, or the idea that someone, somewhere (but not themselves) should take care of ______ .
At the Libertarian meetings in my hometown, I'm the only female that shows up. It gets a little awkward when the conversation falters when you walk in while everyone else adjusts to sudden, unaccustomed, mixed-sex surroundings Wink
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Re: Libertarian Women
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2005, 02:50:05 pm »

I've noted this problem and it bothers me extremely that most of my sex leans so strongly towards statism,

I don't think its statism.  Its "collectivism."  There are plenty of female anarchists.

Anarchists actually make a concerted effort to confront the sexism which is embedded so deeply in our society.  We practice feminist principles and work towards women's liberation.
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"The liberty of man consists solely in this: that he obeys natural laws because he has himself recognized them as such, and not because they have been externally imposed upon him by any extrinsic will whatever, divine or human, collective or individual." -Mikhail Bakunin
jeanius
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Re: Libertarian Women
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2005, 08:58:56 pm »

One of the things I find a bit confusing in some libertarian "future worlds" is that, of course, we will all be personally armed.  I don't think that is necessarily true.  I think the balance of things can be kept by just knowing that if you rob or hurt someone you risk *real* harm.  Perhaps, in general, there will still be some who don't want to carry or own guns.  But, with no restrictions there will be some who do and perhaps your partner, or your neighbor will be there and unafraid to use his/her weapon should the need arise.  Perhaps you will subscribe to a service which patrols and protects.  Who knows.  I'm certain the free market will come up with ideas.

Liberty of course, means being able to choose.  I know some who would choose not to bear arms.  Fine by me.  I know how to operate a fire arm and can and will use it should the need arise.  I still hope I don't have the need.

However, guns are not evil - people are evil.  Okay, that may sound trite but it rings true for me.  Restrictions on controlled substances have been a bigger impact on organized violence in my opinion.  I think if the propaganda on firearms changes and people are taught a better respect for them, they will be less problematic in our lives overall.

Jean
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Simon Jester
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Re: Libertarian Women
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2005, 01:16:14 am »

Quote
I don't think its statism.  Its "collectivism."  There are plenty of female anarchists.
Well, I chose to use that word to describe what I see as the problem: not that women are collectivist socially and of their own free will, but that they nowadays turn to the government and try to be collectivist in that manner, as if the government specifically should protect women. THe government specifically should encourage that they have day cares and that sort of thing.

Quote
Anarchists actually make a concerted effort to confront the sexism which is embedded so deeply in our society.  We practice feminist principles and work towards women's liberation.
Women ARE liberated. We are just as liberated as men are as we are individual human beings. Nowadays, however, the feminist movement is less directed towards insuring that women are seen as capable, responsible, individuals and more into insuring that for every male CEO there is a female CEO and they use government legislation to make this happen.

Quite frankly, I don't think that society is filled with sexism, the belief that one sex is better than the other, unless it be the idea that women are better than men. There is a LOT of man-hating that goes on nowadays. Case in point: "Boys are stupid, throw rocks at them" T-shirts.

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There is also a lack of women gun owners. Is there a correlation? I believe so
So do I. One of my neighbors recently left her abusive boyfriend and while we were discusisng changing the locks, nailing down the windows, etc, I made the suggestion that she get a gun and get trained and licensed to use it (also noting how long it took the police to get there when he was choking her and how long it would take them to get there if tried breaking in) but the basic idea was that there is no way that would work and it was too dangerous...Bull.

It's definitely one of my goals to get training and experieince in the use of firearms and, when I can afford it, to buy a handgun. I figure we have that second ammendment there for a reason. Might as well use it Smiley
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It matters not how strait the gate,
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Re: Libertarian Women
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2005, 09:16:59 am »


Liberty of course, means being able to choose.  I know some who would choose not to bear arms.  Fine by me.  I know how to operate a fire arm and can and will use it should the need arise.  I still hope I don't have the need.

The difference is that while those who love freedom won't use the power of the State to force others to carry tools for self defense, those opposed to freedom have no qualms about forcing us to be naked.
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Re: Libertarian Women
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2005, 09:57:27 am »

From the just released issue of the Quill
http://www.freestateproject.org/news/thequill/2005-06/

LIBERTARIAN WOMEN Come to Porc Fest! by J. Alexander

I've been hearing lately about the lack of libertarian women. I still don't quite believe, don't quite get it. Honestly, I think we’re out there. We’re just not all attending big L Libertarian events and activities. We’re not where we can be easily counted. We’re pursuing libertarian ideals in different, perhaps less visible ways. Some of us that is.
Recently, in a wonderful new email group, Mothers for Liberty (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MothersForLiberty), the topic was raised about libertarian women.... So, I’m curious. How are other libertarian women working for liberty? What do you do that maybe isn’t counted when the “L”ibertarian seekers come around for their census? Email me or meet me on the Free State Project forum. Let’s stand up and be counted!

And, if you can, meet me in NH for Porc Fest in late July. It’s bound to be one heck of a party! Smiley
-------------
Hi Jean,

I was perusing thru the posts here at Free State Project and came across your nice mention of Mothers for Liberty - thanks!  Thought you might be interested in knowing that I will be writing a column, "Daughters of the Revolution", for Jim Perry's new magazine - Granite Porcupines. As I understand it, he is going to distribute the first issue (July) FREE at Porc Fest and at cost for postage for those who want a copy of the first issue mailed. Subscriptions will then be available. 

Hope you enjoy the column and the magazine (and the party)!

Again - thanks for the mention,

Jan Stover
Founder ~ Mothers for Liberty
« Last Edit: June 22, 2005, 12:43:28 pm by jejstover » Logged

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jeanius
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Re: Libertarian Women
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2005, 11:47:35 am »

Well deserved Jan!  It was a great idea and is a fabulous group.  I'll look forward to "Granite Porcupines".  Porc Fest should be a blast!

Jean
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jeanius
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Re: Libertarian Women
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2005, 01:01:17 pm »

Ward,

Absolutely agree.  Liberty is a two way street.  That means I have to accept that my neighbors may own something or be involved in an activity I disapprove of.  That is the burden of liberty, one I am happy to shoulder!  Smiley

Jean


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Re: Libertarian Women
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2005, 07:27:11 pm »

One of the things I find a bit confusing in some libertarian "future worlds" is that, of course, we will all be personally armed.  I don't think that is necessarily true.  I think the balance of things can be kept by just knowing that if you rob or hurt someone you risk *real* harm.  Perhaps, in general, there will still be some who don't want to carry or own guns.  But, with no restrictions there will be some who do and perhaps your partner, or your neighbor will be there and unafraid to use his/her weapon should the need arise.

Indeed.  A few percent of the people carrying concealed would make a lot of robbers think twice before trying to mug someone or invade their home.  That is the advantage of concealed carry: the bad guys don't know who's armed, so they have to play the odds, and the larger the odds get that they will be met with forcible resistance, the more likely they are to turn to other activities.  Open carry is good for personal defense, though - not many people would risk attacking you if you have a gun showing.  I consider concealment a form of charity... I give up some personal protection, and help to protect others Smiley

And, statistically, women benefit the most.  Biologically, women are less likely to be physically threatening than men - just simple genetics.  So, a perception that a decent percentage of women have "equalled the playing field" by going armed will have a greater effect than men going armed.  John Lott's excellent book, "More Guns: Less Crime" has the actual data and numbers, both in terms of general carry and breaking it down by categories...

Joe
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"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.

We are not civilized because we are armed; we are armed because we are civilized..
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Re: Libertarian Women
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2005, 09:59:41 am »

Ward,

Absolutely agree.  Liberty is a two way street.  That means I have to accept that my neighbors may own something or be involved in an activity I disapprove of.  That is the burden of liberty, one I am happy to shoulder!  Smiley

Jean
Anything that does not involve initiation of force or fraud is never subject to my approval.  Some activities I may not find an interest in participation or observation, but that's none of my concern and why curtains were invented.  (That's the curtains on _my_ windows, I claim no control over anybody else's).
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jeanius
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Re: Libertarian Women
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2005, 03:09:56 pm »

On the issue of many women being socialist/collectivist I have had the same experience.  I've been trying to think about what it could be.  I think part of it is the training we're given.  Certainly public schools get that message across in a multitude of ways.  And I've found my libertarian views met with disdain and outright anger on occasion.  You have to be willing to be a bit confrontational or back down in those situations.  Perhaps belonging and being part of the group is more important to some women at some level. 

I think amongst the mothers I know there is also an element of having not just equal opportunity but having equal outcomes.  You want the best for your children and I know I deal with emotional reactions all the time if one child gets something the other doesn't.  But, though it is hard on the child left out there is a difference between *earning* something and just being *given* something.  It's the politics of envy at a very young age.  : /

Jean
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Re: Libertarian Women
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2005, 09:14:26 pm »

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There is also a lack of women gun owners

Which never made sense to me. I couldn't give much of a damn about hunting, honestly, but there's no other real option besides a gun for self-defense. Seriously, I'm a five-one lightweight. I'm not going to outmuscle any man who hasn't just had a hip replacement.

But a .45 really handles the issue for me.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2005, 09:49:45 pm by Josie » Logged
jeanius
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Re: Libertarian Women
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2005, 09:34:35 pm »

ROTFL!!!!!  That is an image I won't be able to clear.  Unless he's just had a hip replacement.  Yeah, I could probably take out a gent with a walker!

FWIW, at 5'10" and a kid wrangler I *might* be able to take out an attacker.  But, I'm SURE I'd be able to with my Glock 19 and there are some things I just don't want to leave to the fates!  And, even if I was willing to risk it for myself, I'm sure as heck unwilling to when it comes to my kids.

Jean
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Re: Libertarian Women
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2005, 05:00:41 am »

I'm also against guns, because they lead to high levels of organized violence which leads to statism and authoritarianism.

I do not own a gun, nor do I ever plan on owning one.  Guns are evil, and the NRA is full of racist propoganda.  Don't buy guns.
What are you doing associating yourself with a FREE STATE Project?
Owning and being proficient with a gun is an inherent part of staying free.
Renouncing gun ownership is renouncing freedom.
Green being against freedom is, of course, a given.

He didn't say he supported banning them...

Anyway, your views on the corrolation between gun ownership and freedom are just that, your views. Even if you're right that fighting fire with fire is necessary (ignoring anomalies such as Ghandi), that doesn't mean the every single person has to do it. Everyone has their purpose and their use in this movement and while I recognize that Green isn't a libertarian (in the sense most use the term), there are plenty of us who are libertarians that dislike guns, have no interest in them and do not consider their use to be necessary for freedom, but fully respect your own right to have them.

To all: Sorry for responding to this hijack, but I have a hard time ignoring things. Wink

To Mule: If you want to respond... prolly best to start a new thread somewhere and link to that instead. I've said pretty much all I need to though. Smiley
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