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Author Topic: Snowbird strategy  (Read 6201 times)
suggesto
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Snowbird strategy
« on: October 05, 2004, 04:10:13 am »

Many FSP members who move to New Hampshire will want to spend at least part of the winters in warmer climes. (This is fine, as long as we're otherwise residents of NH the rest of the year, and are in-state for town meetings, elections, and other activism.) This is the "snowbird" phenomenon, and is very common down here in Florida where I live. If others can comfortably do it, why not Porcupines? En masse.

I propose that a working group come together to examine possibilities regarding "snowbird options" for NH Porcupines. One possibility is to put together a group to purchase land in Florida or elsewhere in the South, and develop it as an RV center/trailer park/campground for FSP members to head for during the coldest part of winters. Another option is to specify an existing campground or RV center in the south, and publicize it as "Porcupine Friendly" for winter gatherings. Still another is to choose an existing mobile home/RV/trailer park down South where people can purchase their lots for use in the winter.

All possibilities are open. Anyone interested? There's no time to plan like the present. Let's talk!
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Elwar
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Re:Snowbird strategy
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2004, 11:26:04 am »

I grew up in Michigan. I had an uncle who went to Florida from November to March and he was pretty active in the local government. Nobody ever gave him flack for going south for the winter. People who need to prove something by being in the cold have worse problems.

I live in Georgia now...I love the weather, that's one of the hardest things I'll have to give up when I move to NH.

I'd suggest NH snowbirds focus on South Carolina. It's been the focus of a few semi-free southern state projects, maybe by the time we're moved into NH they might have something going on in SC. I wouldn't mind a winter house near Charleston.
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Re:Snowbird strategy
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2004, 01:58:46 pm »

Just so all you people understand, I'm not counseling what Joe Swyers warns against, above. I personally will probably spend the whole year in New Hampshire. But there are lots of people who are very scared of the severe winters up there, and are hesitating to move to the Free State because of it. If they know that there's a "Porcupines' Summer Place" available, where they'll have other FSP members around them if they care to go south for a month or two...why would that be so bad? Especially if it makes migration possible and palatable to a few thousand more libertarians? Besides, if other, "normal" people can do it each winter, I see no reason why Porcupines should be sanctioned or shamed because they also want to have some respite in the winter.  ---Tim Condon
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JasonPSorens
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Re:Snowbird strategy
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2004, 09:13:12 pm »

To quote Joe Swyers-

"If all you intend to do is vote and maybe stuff envelopes or do other behind the scenes help, then a half-time and half-assed presence is adequate. But if you stand up at a town meeting or fall rally to voice your opinion be forewarned that those who stick it through the winter may regard your opinion as not worth the road salt that eats out cars. (actually the salt is worth more)."

I've talked to Mainers, and they say half the state is gone for parts of the winter (natives included).  Joe Swyers was from CO; perhaps people act differently there.  I assume NH is more similar to ME.  Of course, NH primaries are early (is that for all offices, or just president?).  Would be ideal to have people around then.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2004, 09:14:06 pm by JasonPSorens » Logged

"Educate your children, educate yourselves, in the love for the freedom of others, for only in this way will your own freedom not be a gratuitous gift from fate. You will be aware of its worth and will have the courage to defend it." --Joaquim Nabuco (1883), Abolitionism
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Re:Snowbird strategy
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2004, 08:03:51 am »

i think that's a great idea.

i have almost 70 acres in troy, alabama (for those of you with GPS, my exact location is: Latitude: 31 degrees 45.295' N   Longitude: 85 degrees 51.128' W): about 30 acres in wetlands and about 40 acres in pecan orchard. my house is located on about 2 acres of this property near the road.

i've always wanted to make productive use of this land and this would fit the bill.

i already have numerous amenities already on the property:

1. 25 yrd pistol range (shoot from a raised deck)
2. 200 yd rifle range (shoot from a covered, raised deck)
3. fishing (whitewater creek runs along one side of the property)
4. camping in the back 30 acres of swamp for those who like to "rough it"
5. in-ground swimming pool
6. 800sq ft game room: pool, ping-pong, foosball, 5-person hot-tub, tables & chairs, board games, etc.
7. woodworking and metalworking workshops: guys can "fix up" their RVs if there's a problem during their stay.
8. 2/3 mile ATV/gocart trail
9. horshoes
10. we play paintball in the backwoods
11. trap launcher at the pistol range
12. pecans in oct-nov

as best as i can tell, the only thing i'd need to do is:

1. improve the driveway to make it easier for RV's to enter/exit
2. create the camping sites: water, power, pads, picnic tables, fire rings, etc.
3. install a septic dump station
4. build a restroom/shower building for the tent camping area
5. signs on hwy 231 (about 2 miles away from my property) directing people to the site
6. need a full-time caretaker: check in/out, maintenance, rule enforcement, etc.
7. insurance

however, i really don't know anything about developing/running an campsite, but this is a start.

Regards,

Floyd Shackelford

The Philosophy of Liberty: http://www.isil.org/resources/introduction.swf

Liberty in Our Lifetime: http://www.freestateproject.org/

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Re:Snowbird strategy
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2004, 09:30:52 am »

You people have no Nordic pride.

Wink
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Re:Snowbird strategy
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2004, 10:01:04 am »

Floyd's situation is *very* interesting. For those of you who don't have your atlas at hand, Troy is in south central Alabama, not all that far from north Florida (meaning relatively warm weather in the depths of winter). It's easy to get to I-85 in Montgomery, from which it's pretty much a straight shot up to I-95 in Petersburg, VA, from which you'd drive up to catch I-91 in New Haven, CT, and then it's a straight shot up to the border between VT and NH which I-91 follows all the way to Canada.

Floyd, when are you intending to move up to the Free State? And who will take care of your 70 acres when you're up north? And how many RV/trailer pads do you think you could fit in on that 40 acres? And what about septic tanks and water for the various trailers and RV's that would spend part of the winter down there?
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Re:Snowbird strategy
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2004, 11:04:59 am »

<SNIP>
But if you stand up at a town meeting or fall rally to voice your opinion be forewarned that those who stick it through the winter may regard your opinion as not worth the road salt that eats out cars. (actually the salt is worth more)."

Where I currently live in central Texas, many of our residents are snowbirds.  Many successfully influence the local politics, though many do not.  It all depends on the relationships they have built with their full-time neighbors.  Good neighbors gain influence.  Snowbirds who volunteer for park clean-up, town commissions, go to DAR meetings, join local service groups, etc., gain influence, even though they vote in Michigan, Wisconsin, New York, etc.

One approach to consider, if you want to maintain a second residence in NH, instead of cutting off ties to your current home,  would be to plan to stay in NH during the period that snowbirds want to come to where you live.  You stay in your NH house through the winter, while renting out your warm-weather home, and then rent out your NH home in the summer, when there is high demand for seasonal rentals in NH.  

I have found that many developments around NH lakes offer extremely cheap lots that would be ideal for working it this way, because the main draw of these communities is the lake in summer time.  I guaratanee if you are one of the few residents that stick out the winters in these places and you are a good neighbor, you will have the opportunity to be very politically influential there.

One of the priests at the church where I got married and I am still an occasional musician is a snowbird.  He has an arrangement to work at the Texas church in the winter and a Michigan church in the summer.  He is extremely influential and an appreciated member of the community.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2004, 11:06:52 am by BlueLu » Logged
antayla
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Re:Snowbird strategy
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2004, 02:39:02 pm »

I guess if I can't figure out a way to stay indoors all winter, I'm going to be out of state on business during the winter season.  Except during election years, of course.

I can still help the FSP during my time away with a recruitment campaign, or by setting up investment networks that keep money flowing into NH.  Besides, I think it would be fun to be a travelling liberty salesperson.  I intend to visit every intentional community in the damn country (and probably some other ones)  After all, it's the true communitarians that have most to gain by getting rid of government regulation.  They want self-determination as much as the rest of us... if NH can become a nexus of freedom, then the influence can spread outward... kinda organic like.  Feelers and all that.  Er, like mold spores, right? (is having a very tough time analogizing the picture in her head.)  Imagine if you will, money flowing into NH.  We set up the infrastructrure, determine a standard of government behaviour.  Then the influence flows back outward, in the form of returns and association with the liberty-oriented forms of "law."  After all, the sucess of a truly free state depends on outside support.  We're going to need to be able to have both inside and outside influence (hrm, speaking analogously again, kinda like the internal and external balance of a cell.)  We're going to need to be able to fundraise massive funds for "defense" as soon as they are needed... and I don't doubt that we WILL need them, eventually.

Anyways, my point was that I'll be travelling, doing this stuff.  Happy fun Smiley.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2004, 02:48:00 pm by Robin Canaday (antayla) » Logged
glen
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Re:Snowbird strategy
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2004, 01:20:45 am »

For us full time RVers, it is not a lack of Nordic Pride, it is a lack of adequate insulation in the 2 inch thick walls, ceilings and floors of our travel trailers and motorhomes.   Cool
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Re:Snowbird strategy
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2004, 02:15:42 am »

I plan to stick it through every damn winter.

Sit in the home sipping hot coffee or hot chocolate, reading a good book while it is snowing outside and burgers are being grilled.

I stick it through Michigan winters anyhow, don't feel big deal to me.

Yours in savoring moments in life,

SA
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"If ya love wealth better than liberty, tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go from us in peace... May your chains set lightly upon you..."
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