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Author Topic: Motor vehicle emission control regulations  (Read 16981 times)

seva

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Motor vehicle emission control regulations
« on: September 08, 2003, 06:14:47 pm »

Could someone please comment on the motor vehicle emission control regulations in the candidate states, at this point I am particularly interested in NH and WY.

/Seva

Mike Lorrey

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Re:Motor vehicle emission control regulations
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2003, 06:43:14 pm »

NH has no emissions tests imposed on motor vehicle inspection or registration, at least for POVs.
Because we are downwind of the rust belt, though, we'd had MBTE additives for several years in the fuel, which had a negative impact on well water quality. A year or two ago we ended these additives and went to alcohol additives to improve oxygenation without pollution like MBTE.
Diesel drivers, specifically buses and trucks, can be cited by police if their emissions don't meet DOT specs, i.e. a smokey exhaust pipe. State DOT people are very tight assed about truck and bus compliance with all state regs, especially if they are registered out of state. The company I work for, Vermont Transit, has to deal with these people, especially when new drivers are getting their passenger cert. on occasion we've had vehicles immobilized for minor crap and had to have the whole 40' bus towed back to the shop.
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Kelton

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Re:Motor vehicle emission control regulations
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2003, 08:42:11 pm »

I searched each and every DMV to try to get a handle on that, it appears that only Idaho, Alaska and Montana do not require any safety inspections on cars.

The emission regulation seems to be more of a EPA mandate handed to the states rather than what a state decides to do.  Though the state does have a limited amount of control over what direction they will take on the issue.  One County in Idaho and two different  districts in Alaska are currently being required to comply.   It looks like New Hampshire was but now isn't.

I think that Delaware is doing it statewide and Vermont seems to also have some emission inspection of some sort in place, but I can't tell enough to comment what exactly it is.
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Kelton

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Re:Motor vehicle emission control regulations
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2003, 11:01:29 am »

Should people be free to pollute the atmosphere at will?  :-\

Of course not, air will continue to remain a common interest, no matter how well private property rights enter into division of land, water rights, even airspace, we all continue to breathe the same air.

This is one reason the communist/socialist proponents have latched-on to environmental issues, shedding their red flags for green ones, and why they cling so religiously to faulty junk science when it concerns the atmosphere, i.e., ozone holes and human-induced global warming; because this really is something that needs a tiny bit of governmental oversight, at times, and even international cooperation, so they run with it all the way.

More to the point, though.  The problem I see with current motor vehicle emission inspections and other such regulations is that they cause a lot of harm and misery to everyone yet do very little to actually control the worst polluters.  
For instance, last year I sold a newer economy car with only 8,000 miles on it, yet I still had to take two hours out of my busy schedule and go down and pay $45 to get an emission inspection on it.  Needless to say,  the car easily passed and the inspection station got their money, though they left grimey hand prints all over the steering wheel, and the state got some more revenue out of that on top of the sales tax and  hefty registration already claimed only a few months earlier when I bought the car.
 
 Then I have heard the sad stories of people who get various components of their emission systems damaged by the test, even cases of getting their car totaled when the car slips off the treadmill at 45 miles an hour.  Then there are alwys numerous stories of abuse, the little old grandma that takes her 5-year old Oldsmobile and is told she has to spend $900 or get her car impounded for not passing inspection, and forced to pay or walk home.  Then there are the numerous stories of people who adjust their carburetors to run thin for inspection then tune them back to thick after passing the 'smog test'.

All this, and the fact remains that 3% of the vehicles out there are still contributing more than 40% of the pollution, even with inspections.  Daily I encounter cars spewing clouds of thick dark , smelly smoke that somehow passed the last smog inspection.

Once I spoke with an engineer who is also a car enthusiast, who explained one of the pipes on an emission system is actually an intake for fresh air to dilute the emission system so that it better passes government inspections.  It actually makes the car less efficient in both catalytic exchange and in robbing the car of power, yet the diluted exhaust came up better in the measurements, which pleased the bureaucrats so it remained on millions of cars for several years.

In my opinion, the best way to end car pollution is to end all this sensless spending on things that don't really work, that only please a few busy-bodies and just allow people to spend more of their transportation dollars on efficiency-improving technology.  Maybe there is some justification to setting-up 'sniffer' machines along the roadway and nabbing the bad polluting cars on the road by sending the car owner a bill in the mail, such as has been implemented in some parts of the country.  But I think that having everyone carry-on this yearly emission inspection routine is just ridiculous and does little to actually catch the few polluting cars.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2003, 11:07:08 am by Kelton, a.k.a. exitus »
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Mike Lorrey

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Re:Motor vehicle emission control regulations
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2003, 11:27:42 am »

Should people be free to pollute the atmosphere at will?  :-\

More to the point, though.  The problem I see with current motor vehicle emission inspections and other such regulations is that they cause a lot of harm and misery to everyone yet do very little to actually control the worst polluters.  

This is exactly right. Vehicles less than ten years old produce, on average, 90% less emissions than older vehicles. The primary reason for this, though, is that older vehicles are owned by poorer people who tend to procrastinate on extensive tune-ups: changing spark plugs, plug cables, distributors, filters, cleaning out carbeurators or fuel injectors (or replacing injectors), replacing fuel filters and injection regulators. They also tend to blow off or evade replacing worn out catalytic converters due to the expense of this one item.

Even when they do perform such maintenance, they buy marginal quality/performance parts that do no work as well or last as long as slightly more expensive parts: Quaker State oil rather than Mobil One, generic spark plugs rather than four point Splitfire platinum spark plugs, etc.

There is no reason a well kept older vehicle can't be a relatively low emission vehicle, as much as any newer vehicle.

This being said, I believe that individuals who can document a good maintenance record shouldn't have to pay for or have emssions tests done.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2003, 11:29:58 am by Mike Lorrey »
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mactruk

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Re:Motor vehicle emission control regulations
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2003, 07:15:48 pm »

  The GOV thinks they are free to pollute the air - so do greens.  As a matter of fact they think to burn down our forests is natural.  This year alone forest fires in MT have put out more pollution than all the cars in the USA for 10 years.  So when a green says cars are bad ignore them, they pollute more.
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BillG

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Re:Motor vehicle emission control regulations
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2003, 08:36:51 pm »

Quote
The GOV thinks they are free to pollute the air - so do greens.  As a matter of fact they think to burn down our forests is natural.  This year alone forest fires in MT have put out more pollution than all the cars in the USA for 10 years.  So when a green says cars are bad ignore them, they pollute more.

The question is Mac whether or not you believe the sky is limited or not?

Is there a point at which we tip the balance and destroy the regenerative qualities of the sky by continuing to use it as a dump and then suffer serious negative health consequences...

yes or no?
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BillG

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Re:Motor vehicle emission control regulations
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2003, 08:44:28 pm »

Quote
Of course not, air will continue to remain a common interest, no matter how well private property rights enter into division of land, water rights, even airspace, we all continue to breathe the same air.
This is one reason the communist/socialist proponents have latched-on to environmental issues, shedding their red flags for green ones, and why they cling so religiously to faulty junk science when it concerns the atmosphere, i.e., ozone holes and human-induced global warming; because this really is something that needs a tiny bit of governmental oversight, at times, and even international cooperation, so they run with it all the way.

We don't really have private property rights to the air we breath do we?

why not?

why don't we just simply assign everyone the same equal access rights that are none transferable and charge entities for violaing that by using the sky as a dump?

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DustinD

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Re:Motor vehicle emission control regulations
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2003, 03:41:00 pm »

Can anyone break down by percent what puts what percent of such-and-such chemical into the air? Also what countries pollute the most? I have heard that America only contributes 1% to air pollution. I also have heard that passenger vehicles only put out a tiny % of the air pollution. Anyone have the numbers? Anyone have any links to point me to?

Personally I think we should roll back pollution laws to 1995ish for newly built vehicles. That would give better performance and gas mileage. We should not raise the standards until technology catches up, or we can prove that a specific chemical in a cars exhaust is contributing noticeably to a problem. So far we have taken lead out of the air, and cut tailpipe emissions down to a tiny fraction of what it was 50 years ago. The only way the mfgs can make things cleaner is by gutting power. My bike came from the factory so lean it almost burned up before I had a chance to re jet it. The exhaust would glow bright yellow at idle. >:(

I have been a performance enthusiast/gear head for many years, and could come up with some good ways to keep vehicles clean for the long run without stupid "do not touch" type laws. I could also rant about how pathetic OBD is compared to any free market engine management or how OBD3 may report back to big brother how your car is doing, not to mention location, speed, and have remote shutoff. >:( OBD3 is not out yet, and its specs are not finalized, but it looks scary.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2003, 03:50:49 pm by DustinD »
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mactruk

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Re:Motor vehicle emission control regulations
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2003, 08:15:14 pm »

  Billg: the question is why are we forced to spend hard earned money through gov forced wealth distribution and regulation when there is not a thing you can do about it.  The natural disasters through out history and into the future have thrown more pollution into our air than we humans will ever do.  It is right for us to add our one tenth of one percent ????
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