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Author Topic: New Hampshire  (Read 240496 times)

JonM

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Re:New Hampshire
« Reply #1965 on: September 24, 2003, 08:13:10 am »

It continues, even today. The NH statehouse has three buttons for each seat, yes, no and quorum. But only the yes and no buttons work, because NH refused to buy the software for the quorum button. :D

JM
Is there a journal of that debate available online somewhere?  And the vote?  I'd love to read it
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jgmaynard

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Re:New Hampshire
« Reply #1966 on: September 24, 2003, 08:16:52 am »

I think that happened in the early 70's. I doubt it is anywhere easy to find.

JM
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Radar

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Re:New Hampshire
« Reply #1967 on: September 24, 2003, 10:02:48 am »

Parents should send their kids to college, but have no legal or moral obligation to do it.  They shouldn't be forced to do it by courts who have no authority in the matter what-so-ever.  I am speaking from experience.  I worked 3 part-time jobs to save to go to college and quickly ran out of money when I got there.  My father had money but wouldn't give me any of it.  I asked him for $100/month just to let me know he knew I was alive but he refused.  I worked my way through. It was tough to get financial aid because they knew he made money.  

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Oh yea, and New Hampshire Sucks!  It's the worst choice for a free state because it offers us the worst chance for success.  - Me

SteveA

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Re:New Hampshire
« Reply #1968 on: September 24, 2003, 10:51:46 am »

I think it's objectionable for the courts to demand he pay for his children to attend college.  What if he can't afford it?  If your children asked you for a car or tuition for college, it's a decision you, as a parent, have to make and it depends on finances too.  Cars and colleges don't magically appear upon government demand, someone has to pay for (build) the schools and others have to learn to be teachers and then spend time and resources teaching the children.  Some people may consider education more noble than a car but don't fall for it.  Would you rather have a college degree or the ability to drive?  It's just another way the government controls human endeavour.  Guess whos agenda they'll be taught in school as well?

Government continually assumes more parental responsibilities.  They know what's best for you and your children, and all that's needed is to live in conformance with governmental desires to achieve utopia.   Not!

We could have a State Slave Project where everyone can go and sue each other, regulate freedom into a pipe dream and offer tax breaks for 'voluntary' slavery contracts.  Live by the state, die by the state.
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Kelton

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Re:New Hampshire
« Reply #1969 on: September 24, 2003, 11:32:29 am »

As I look at the situation in the states, I notice that getting the state out of state colleges and universities might not be as hard of a battle as getting the state out of teaching the primary and secondary schools.  The reason is that already, amazingly vast sums of private money flows into higher education already.  

At every college around, there are people whose full-time position is to schmooze and attract large donors to make contributions.  I personally knew one man who had such a position,  he attended all the high-society events, regularly jetted around on the university fractionally-owned corporate jet, played golf at the nicest courses, went out to dinner at the finest restaurants, and so forth all on the state's dime in an effort to draw-in these big contributors.   My wife also works at a retirement home where one particularly humble-appearing and unassuming woman just gave $12 million dollars so that she could get a building on the local university campus named after her.  There just seems to be no end to the potential of such donors, and that isn't even getting into the entrepreneurs who  hire the universities to conduct research!


Out of all of our candidate states,  I am going to guess that New Hampshire may be one of the most well-positioned states to drop higher education out of state financing due to the large presence of influential and private universities to lead the way.


<<OFF TOPIC>>
Parents should send their kids to college, but have no legal or moral obligation to do it.  They shouldn't be forced to do it by courts who have no authority in the matter what-so-ever.  I am speaking from experience.  I worked 3 part-time jobs to save to go to college and quickly ran out of money when I got there.  My father had money but wouldn't give me any of it.  I asked him for $100/month just to let me know he knew I was alive but he refused.  I worked my way through. It was tough to get financial aid because they knew he made money.  

Sounds familiar,  I worked nights to pay for school after my parents could not help me due to extenuating circumstances.  I tried for financial aid and was denied because my parents made too much money,  so I gave-up and decided to wait until I was 24 to go back to school so I could be eligible at that age to get some government aid.  But when that magic age came about, my philosophy had changed and I decided not to accept the government grants I was eligible for.
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JonM

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Re:New Hampshire
« Reply #1970 on: September 24, 2003, 05:09:21 pm »

For reasons that defy imagination, Massachusetts state schools do not charge tuition (though they do charge fees) to war veterans.  While at day school tuition only makes up a little less than half the cost of attending class, the continuing education department (night school) charges pretty much everything as tuition.

The net result was that I made money going to college.  The GI bill, thanks to my $1200 investment at a time I made virtually no money, paid me to take classes, which covered my books easily.  I never had to pay tuition, and I got a fairly useless degree that was worth every penny I didn't pay.  

As an example, neither my macro nor my economics teachers had heard of the concept of "Tulipmania."  I had learned about that in high school economics in Florida.  To make matters worse, I was going to school at the very peak of the Internet stock bubble, and you could hear it referenced on CNBC several times a week.  Most of the other professors gave me about the same level of confidence in my quality of education.  Had I actually been laying out my hard earned money for this "education" I would have been incensed.  Since I knew I was merely getting back some of the tens of thousands of tax dollars I had paid to the commonwealth, it left me more bemused than enraged.  And as a bonus, my degree is signed by the brother of a murderer!
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johnadams

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Re:New Hampshire
« Reply #1971 on: September 24, 2003, 10:39:56 pm »

I learned much more about economics from my business professors at UVM than I did from my ECON professors, who tended to be liberals or socialists and/or mediocre. I think this is true at many colleges and universities around the world--the economics departments are often dominated by leftwingers.

There are libertarian and market-oriented schools and think tanks at some universities, however. Suffolk University in Boston houses the Pioneer Institute and Auburn University in Alabama houses the Mises Institute, for example.
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jgmaynard

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Re:New Hampshire
« Reply #1972 on: September 25, 2003, 11:25:48 am »

Keene State College actually has a full-fledged Libertarian teaching economics - Thom Simmons.
Of course, the poli-sci department is full of left-wing liberals who would would make Jesse Jackson look like Ronald Reagan... ;)
There was a woman who "taught" poli-sci at KSC, and one semester, Michelle Otterson and I both took classes from her. She called herself a Green, but she was a socialist at heart. MIchelle and I took opposite classes with her, and would go to class every day with copies of the US and NH constitutions, economic reports, etc., and would call her on everything. The next semester, she went on sabbatical, and never came back. ;D

JM
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Karl

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Re:New Hampshire
« Reply #1973 on: September 25, 2003, 11:36:36 am »

James,

It sounds like there are some exciting things going on for Libertarians in Keene.  Do you think Keene is a good candidate for a concentrated local effort by free staters?  Should we all take pol-sci classes at KSC? ;)

« Last Edit: September 25, 2003, 11:36:51 am by Karl Beisel »
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jgmaynard

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Re:New Hampshire
« Reply #1974 on: September 25, 2003, 01:25:07 pm »

HI Karl:

Yes, I am quite happy with our results here so far... For instance, there is a big debate coming up 10/1 in Keene, and we will have up to 3 Libertarians in it.
Keene is, for sure, one of the most liberal areas in NH (along with Rockingham). But, like much of Vermont, still has a strong libertarian undercurrent.
It may be one area where people interested in "concentrating our forces" might look at - especially those concerned with social issues as much as financial. But other likely candidate counties would be Coos (wilderness, cheap land, lack of media except NHPR), Grafton (center of the Babiarz's, Ken Blevins, major college area, and the Dartmouth Libertarians do great things), and Hillsboro (major population areas, lots of jobs, last county in the country to elect a Lib state rep, in 2000).
Anyway,  hope that helps. :)

JM
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Blain

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Re:New Hampshire
« Reply #1975 on: September 25, 2003, 03:07:30 pm »

What about UNH?  What is the area that is in like?  
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jgmaynard

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Re:New Hampshire
« Reply #1976 on: September 25, 2003, 04:04:13 pm »

UNH is in Durham, on the seacoast. It is in a very liberal, expensive area, but offers the best climate in NH, and Michelle Dumas, George Reich, and Dan Beforti are all from that part of the state.
There's some more info at http://www.ci.durham.nh.us/

JM
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The Light of Alexandria By James Maynard

A history of the first 1,000 years of science, and how it changed the ancient world, and our world today.



http://www.lightofalexandria.com

LeRuineur6

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Re:New Hampshire
« Reply #1977 on: September 26, 2003, 07:05:52 am »

I believe we can find success in a variety of states, but if we choose NH, we will definitely find success!

Thanks to all NH supporters for putting up a strong fight and pushing through to the finish!

Also, I want to thank everyone else for making the case for the other states as well.

Now on to the Non-Political and Political Strategy forums!  We have a lot of work to do!  Everyone please check out the Liberty Scholarship Fund thread here:
http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?board=26;action=display;threadid=3077

I am proud to have worked with all of you on this vote!   :)
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Dave Mincin

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Re:New Hampshire
« Reply #1978 on: September 26, 2003, 01:41:26 pm »

"It is good that war is so terrible!...Lest we grow too fond of it!" ::)

Night all! :D
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